681a3d No.14718048
>That fucking Citadel level
How the fuck is anyone supposed to beat that without a walkthrough?
bd7749 No.14718055
p cute b8, here's your (you)
681a3d No.14718061
>>14718055
I'm being serious.
bd7749 No.14718066
>>14718061
Where's your sense of adventure, son? Left it on Phobos or something?
681a3d No.14718074
>>14718066
Trying every single possible thing like a madman and still failing isn't that adventurous to me.
681a3d No.14718108
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14718064
Fucking tell me, how are you supposed to figure this shit out?
72d0f3 No.14718109
>>14718048
Clear out the monsters and then draw a map if you are still having trouble.
681a3d No.14718114
>>14718109
I already beat the game, I'm now playing Doom 64.
c539a9 No.14718148
>>14718048
Maybe you're just Bad at Videogames kid
681a3d No.14718168
>>14718148
The level is not hard, it's just unclear where you are supposed to go.
dc2ece No.14718191
Doom 2 has mostly bad level design compared to other Doom games. This is pretty well known. I don't know what you expected.
8e68df No.14718207
>>14718048
>A walkthough for doom
Maybe nuDoom would be a better fit for you.
681a3d No.14718222
>>14718207
I didn't need a walkthrough for Doom 1 because it was always clear where the keycards were, Doom 2 needs to place giant arrows on the floor and it's still unclear where the fuck they are.
Also, nuDOOM is garbage, fuck you.
ce9b69 No.14718226
>>14718108
Yes that is a pretty mindfucking level.
099e6a No.14718234
To be honest, I always misplace the blue keycard. (you)'re still a faggot though
681a3d No.14718264
>>14718191
Everyone told me it was better that the original, I don't understand why after playing it. The things they added only made the game frustrating and annoying.
270ddd No.14718270
>>14718168
speaking as an oldfag who played Doom in middle school, yeah it's total bullshit
this guy >>14718191 has the right of it
e6a35b No.14718276
>>14718234
It's a blue skull key and that one is forgivable since it's behind a secret door and there's the red herring of that one timed lift that takes you up to the ledge before the one leading to the key but there isn't one for the next bit. The red skull can fuck you up due to one of the necessary triggers being impact-activated for no good reason, and in vanilla, only hitscans will do the trick. Source ports alleviate this issue. Finally the yellow keycard is kind of hidden, but you may eventually stumble on the way to get there. That level was the bane of my childhood.
Also despite the OP shall we make this the new Doom thread since the old one is autosaging?
>>14718109
Why draw a map when you can press tab?
be7a14 No.14718294
OH MY GOD IT'S NOT A CORRIDOR SHOOTER WITH CHECKPOINTS AND AN ARROW POINTING WHICH DIRECTION TO GO WHAT AM I GONNA DO
47cfd7 No.14718296
>>14718108
Fuck, looks like part of Jordas Trial from Warframe. Now I see where cancucks drew their inspiration.
f795fe No.14718299
>>14718264
They were bullshitting you, the only thing Doom 2 has over the original is the super shotgun and extra enemies. It's only fit as a base for custom maps. Doom 64 does have a far better level set.
e6a35b No.14718307
>>14718294
Modern game shit doesn't mean that bad Doom levels get a free pass you colossal faggot.
>>14718276
And of course I had to stuff up and call it a yellow keycard.
>>14718299
Maybe it's because I played it before the original but I still prefer the Doom 2 levels to this day. Overall at least, there's some clangers in both games.
f795fe No.14718320
>>14718307
I also played it before the first game. Even as a kid I'd use the level select in the Doom95 launcher to avoid playing all the shitty levels in Doom 2.
31bd70 No.14718331
What? You didn't like Sandy Petersen's levels? You don't like big, confusing levels that can potentially take 30 minutes or longer because the level design is so shit?
72d0f3 No.14718336
>>14718276
I prefer drawing maps because I understand them better. It's like taking notes as opposed to just being handed a sheet of the lesson.
681a3d No.14718338
>>14718294
>Doom
>Checkpoints
270ddd No.14718344
>>14718338
technically, it's a save anywhere game, so you can have all the checkpoints you want heh
270ddd No.14718395
you can bet your ass I was saving every 20 steps in vrack3
a0f917 No.14718403
>it's yet ANOTHER doom thread
ba8af9 No.14718407
>Dozens of branching paths
>9/10 paths don't go anywhere important
372849 No.14718418
Some of the Doom 2 levels were shit. Gotcha was shit
The entire Doom 1 episode 1 was pure gold
fb5cfc No.14718424
681a3d No.14718431
>>14718418
I'm still wondering why John Romero never made any other levels after Episode 1.
7fc41e No.14718436
>>14718294
>NOT A CORRIDOR SHOOTER WITH CHECKPOINTS AND AN ARROW POINTING WHICH DIRECTION TO GO
>no arrow
It's funny because one of the maps has an actual arrow pointing where to go.
738116 No.14718440
>>14718431
Didn't he work on the first seven or so levels of Doom 2? He also released some remakes of the Episode 1 levels a year ago or so.
ba8af9 No.14718442
>>14718431
He made most of episode 4.
738116 No.14718454
>>14718440
Scratch that, it was American McGee who made levels 2 to 7 and 14 and 22 in Doom II. The rest were done by Petersen.
681a3d No.14718456
>>14718191
Doom 64's level design is pretty bad in some places as well, like that level where you need to press a switch that doesn't look like a switch and doesnt give any feedback when it's pressed.
681a3d No.14718471
>>14718442
He only made two levels for that chapter.
3d0528 No.14718479
>>14718108
I don't get the problem. Almost every single door and switch is either blatant or an obvious "secret". The only confusing one is that one immediately before the first skull, where you have to walk in front of a different door to trigger the secret entrance (and you can still hear it open). Otherwise, I can only see it being confusing if you're an idiot who doesn't check obvious spots for secrets.
e6a35b No.14718496
>>14718395
For me it depends what maps/mods I'm playing. Vanilla ensures pistol starts are beatable for the most part, so those I'll generally turn autosave off. I generally don't resort to saving mid-level unless it gets too frustrating.
Also that mod has no right to be as fun as it is.
>>14718436
Plutonia has one too but the only good thing about that map set is the level appearances. Generally they play like crap.
>>14718418
It's called making a good first impression. The best Rise of the Triad levels are in the shareware too. But no, I can't fault any of them seriously. It's stuff like E3M1, or E3M5 that are terrible.
>>14718442
No episode 4 was from quite a few different people. Romero did 2.
ba8af9 No.14718514
>>14718471
>>14718496
Oh. Funny, 2 and 6 were the most annoying maps in that episode. Lots of weird height differences making it hard to see or move past enemies, and tons of meatwalls who just harmlessly stand in your way, making you hold down the fire button for an eternity until they fuck off.
681a3d No.14718533
>>14718514
But I loved those two. I really like Episode 4 as a whole, probably my second favorite chapter.
ba8af9 No.14718588
>>14718479
>obvious spots
I checked countless obvious spots and they were all useless. Then one of the random secret walls just happened to be necessary. This is shit design.
a3b697 No.14718590
>>14718331
>confusing levels that can potentially take 30 minutes or longer
>30 minutes
ｙｏｕ ａｒｅ ｌｉｋｅ ａ ｌｉｔｔｌｅ ｂａｂｙ
ｗａｔｃｈ ｔｈｉｓ
270ddd No.14718610
>>14718496
it's great! have you tried Heart of Demons-BARON-? in a similar vein, really drastically changes the gameplay experience without messing with the monsters so you can use your own monster mods
e6a35b No.14718611
>>14718533
It's easily the second-best despite the messed up difficulty curve. Also while I frequently piss on E3M1 it's mostly because of the façade at the start of the level. Fan levels like the historic Trinity College one show how to do it right.
>>14718590
I remember spending an inordinate amount of time in the first trip to the old quarter since I was missing a single loot item needed to meet the quota. Also for The Citadel the one thing I also remember hating as a kid was this torch bullshit since things are infinite height but unlike the other set they're positioned in a way that it looks like they can be bypassed. I tried repeatedly to run over them to get to that one spot. A few years later I learned that the thing under my crosshair is a secret door and the intended route.
4dff38 No.14718653
>>14718590
the difference is it's fun and well designed in thief
4a3d07 No.14718682
>>14718048
>Doom 2's level design is dogshit
And the sky is blue.
b6eb29 No.14718690
MAP19: The Citadel is basically a shittier version of E3M5: Unholy Cathedral and this is coming from a person that absolutely hates E3M5.
31bd70 No.14718698
>>14718590
see >>14718653
Petersen's Earth levels in Doom 2 are fucking awful. I almost never play past Dead Simple because they're so goddamn expansive that don't correlate well with the tight, fast gameplay Doom is known for.
3d0528 No.14718704
>>14718588
>he doesn't autistically check every spot that potentially holds a secret
If Doomguy doesn't grunt at least once every thirty seconds, you're playing Doom wrong.
6a20cc No.14718729
681a3d No.14718763
>Playing some Doom 64
>Try to get the blue key in level 18
>Try everything
>Look it up
>Realize you need to do this
How did people figure this shit out? Why the fuck is this one switch shootable and every switch befor isn't?
e6a35b No.14718918
>>14718610
My initial impression is someone wanted to make up for Doom Rampage Edition, and did it in spades. I'll take more of a gander at it later on though.
>>14718729
La Tailor Girl. Basically, a weapon mod, but the weapons are altered based on the clothes you're wearing and the clothes are mostly anime fanservice stuff. Clothes also double as bikini armor since you base HP is really low. Ending up naked is a death sentence. It's a mixed bag (OK sprite work but the rest of the art is atrocious, some clothes suck too) but it's pretty fun and I really like the overall concept.
>>14718690
That map really sucks, not only for the teleports, but also because the secrets are scarcely hinted at. I still don't have a clue what the yellow key is for.
>>14718763
Impact triggers are retarded. Besides The Citadel, I remember being stuck on Evilution's MAP18 for a while for the same reason. It's needed to get the red key.
14fb9b No.14718974
>>14718264
the super shotgun and extra enemies really add to the game
after playing doom 2 I just can't go back to doom 1 anymore due to the less variety of enemy types
thank fuck Plutonia/TNT:Evolution fixed the shitty map design complaint of Doom 2
48e399 No.14718984
Just play Quake you fucking faggots
681a3d No.14719000
>>14718974
The Super Shotgun feels like shit and has caused me to accidentally waste ammo countless times and the extra enemies are frustrating and not fun to fight against.
8a04fb No.14719002
>>14718048
>That fucking Citadel level
Unless this is the level where you have to shoot some random wall to open a path to the exit, I don't see what the problem is. Other than that, I blew through Doom II pretty quickly.
a3b697 No.14719014
>>14718653
Mostly. Thief is great when it's about good old mundane thieving. But the levels with zombies and other supernatural shit are terrible.
14fb9b No.14719034
>>14719000
> extra enemies are frustrating and not fun to fight against
I don't find a problem with anyone besides pain elementals
14fb9b No.14719039
>>14718763
I wasn't aware somebody make a source port of doom64 for PC
738116 No.14719042
>>14718974
I wish you could start off E4M2 with the super shotgun, it would make a pistol start of the level much more bearable
ad6fea No.14719098
>>14718590
https://hooktube.com/6jEHqJNhW4k
Jedi Knight games were really annoying. look at 8:00 in the video what the hell
681a3d No.14719110
>>14719039
It's called 'Doom64 EX' if you're wondering.
270ddd No.14719238
>>14719000
the SSG fires 20 pellets versus the shotgun's 7, so even if you miss some it's still more ammo-efficient than the regular shotgun
as far as the extra enemies go I somewhat agree; ALL of the new enemies need to be used sparingly.
– chaingunners are too high DPS to be a common enemy
– revenants are too fast and have too much HP, they work best as ambushers (NEVER use them as snipers)
– arachnotrons and mancubi are pretty good overall but they do have kind of a lot of HP for close quarters and ultimately I think they're too similar (tough enemy with large collision box and high DPS projectile attacks)
– archviles are probably the coolest new enemy but as with the others you have to use them sparingly because they can really fuck up the ammo balance on a map and make it super tedious to clear again
– pain elementals are the worst of the new enemies. lost souls are already an obnoxious annoyance with too much HP and really stupid-looking enemy that just spawns more of them is an atrocity.
fe8eee No.14719697
new doom threda?
Anyway does any of you anons have some good urban-ish themed wad packs were I could rip textures off from? I already had a plan to make a megawad map for moon man doom but I always delayed it and thus haven't made any progress. Since I am working on the mod now might as well try the map project again. I can recall there was a 1-3 map wad which had some gud custom textures to steal from but I cannot remember the name of it anymore, I think the player started in some thigh corridor and the next area leads to a long street alley.
eb248f No.14719768
>>14719697
I haven't followed Moon Doom for almost 2 years. Are there maps now?
247e50 No.14719796
What's a bunch of WADs that still hold some difficulty with TrailBlazer or similarly overpowered gameplay mods?
fe8eee No.14719826
>>14719768
There is the metropolitan_breach.wad which contains only 1 map, apart from that I haven't seen that any other goy was working on a moonman specific map wad, so it is up to me to change that.
0ef18b No.14719843
>>14718108
Agreed, this level was hard. I think it was downtown, and the last level were pretty hard too.
0ef18b No.14719846
dc2ece No.14719881
>>14718984
I did. It's a good game.
>>14719796
Maybe Maps of Chaos Overkill? Those maps are designed with coop in mind. On some maps it verges on a slaughterwad but they're pretty good expansions of the orignal maps.
373020 No.14719899
>>14718055
>>14718066
>>14718148
No matter what any of you say, the city levels in Doom 2 are legit garbage. They're the main reason I play the first game more.
I don't remember The Citadel being that confusing though, I'd like to hear what OP thought was so complicated about it.
247e50 No.14719938
>>14719881
>Maybe Maps of Chaos Overkill?
Neat, I'll try that one.
d3df01 No.14720464
My problem with it is the inconsistency of what counts as a secret and what doesn't. In other levels around then you're still gonna get secrets that are just like what you need to progress (or even easier). As others have said though, Doom 2 has pretty shit level design all over.
>>14718763
I was just playing it and i found one in the fourth level. it wasn't even a secret.
b4e460 No.14720586
>>14719014
>But the levels with zombies and other supernatural shit are terrible
Those are some of the best levels in video games as a whole minus the haunted cathedral.
681a3d No.14720669
>>14718984
>>14719846
Quake is complete garbage, fuck off.
e6a35b No.14721366
>>14720586
Even if it's more Tomb Raider than Thief, I vastly prefer them for the exploration aspect (lost city especially, was extremely cool), and because zombie AI being brain-dead isn't as immersion-breaking as when guards are.
>>14719042
You can do that pretty easily if you extract the necessary sprites and SFX. Then you can just load that into (G)ZDoom and go "give supershotgun". Supposedly Doom 1.666 includes the Doom II Thing definitions even for Doom/Ultimate Doom but it didn't seem to work there, at least not with idfa. Unsure on that one maybe you have to explicitly place the SSG in the level in that instance.
>>14719238
Honestly the only one I'd scratch entirely is the chaingunner because it's not the DPS, but the crapshoot that is getting hit or not, and the fact that they continuously fire when they start. Shotgunners make much more reasonable snipers if they're in a small space since they waste more time bouncing off the wall than actually shooting at you. The rest come down more to obnoxious usage, like I can generally deal with Pain Elementals but not in situations like Barrels o' Fun where there's maybe five of them flooding a huge room. Revenants are fine for sniping in open areas but keep them out of confined spaces. Always always ensure the player has the necessary weapons.
>>14719899
No The Citadel is definitely the low point. That said I've never really disliked most of the city levels except MAP12, and MAP15 remains a favourite despite my dumbass kid self having trouble jumping down to the switch, and actually figuring out how to activate it from inside the room with the crates and the red keycard.
537511 No.14722992
>>14718590
>the dark project
>not gold
:^)
>>14719098
>Jedi Outcast
Now there's a trauma flashback.
967a85 No.14723412
>>14718048
>have trouble beating The Pit due to navigation issues
>feel like a dumbass
>watch somebody else play The Pit
>he backtracks repeatedly without getting anywhere
cc5286 No.14730965
>>14718048
Play a better game.
f4bd7f No.14730975
Doom 2 levels are retarded and confusing,anybody who excuses it is a nigger who's just trying to appear cool defending it because it's old.
681a3d No.14730995
>>14730965
I already am, it's called Doom.
e6a35b No.14731228
>>14730975
I realize it's cool to hate on now, but settle down. Like Doom, Doom 2 has a mixed bag of levels. It's also the superior base for modding due to the extra monster types and weapon.
>>14723412
Oh geez more memories. Getting trapped behind that one switch-raised platform that leads to the big donut-shaped room, and not knowing how to exit the one that's opened by the blue key, since it never occurred to me to press space. That door type should've been open-stay-open.
339489 No.14731966
>>14718496
What mod is that?
551f64 No.14731993
>>14718108
I played the shit out of that level in multiplayer when I was a kid and we had no trouble figuring it out. Maybe you're just slow.
e6a35b No.14732415
339489 No.14733178
>>14720669
Not as much as you are, nigger.
339489 No.14733180
>>14732415
I can't find the specific post, it's not vrack3.
339489 No.14733181
12ddc2 No.14733233
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Try playing some Eternal Doom and tell me about confusing levels.
4446fe No.14733364
>>14718048
Beat it at Ultra-Violence when I was 12. What exactly is the problem?
0e78d7 No.14738674
>>14718048
Doom has terrible level design. Just understand that autists have been playing it for so long they've forgotten what it's like not to have the maps memorised.
552bee No.14738738
>>14738674
>Doom 2 has terrible level design
ftfy
0e78d7 No.14738779
>>14738738
Doom 1's isn't much better to be honest, less memes sure but they're still badly signposted/laid out from a first-time player's perspective.
551f64 No.14738789
>>14738779
Doom 1 was much better in general, but several of Doom 2's "bad" maps were excellent for multiplayer.
552bee No.14738817
>>14738779
I played the entire duology for the first time a week ago, the only chapter I had trouble with was Inferno.
681a3d No.14739131
>>14733178
Don't call me a nigger, nigger.
eee4ad No.14740474
No love for any of the Master Levels? Stuff like Canyon, Greyon, and the TEETH levels make for better levels than a huge chunk of Doom 2. Plus with a patch, you can merge them all into a nice 20+ episode like the PSN version did
cc5286 No.14747736
c0dc38 No.14747773
>>14740474
When I first tried them I found some of the master levels to be disgusting. I should revisit them
1b35f4 No.14751146
>>14719938
>>14719881
Well, even with UV -fast this shit is a snoozefest really quickly because of how ridiculous Trailblazer is, guess I'm adding Colorful Hell to that shit then.
d2ee7b No.14751288
Best/favorite way to play DoomRPG + RLA?
768a8c No.14751425
>>14733233
Wow, that's a blast from the past.
Also, checked.
e6a35b No.14751931
>>14751146
Expect most of the added difficulty to be from coloured chaingunners (hitscan shit turned up to 11), coloured boss monsters, and some of the white-tier enemies. Most black-tiers are manageable. Still Trailblazer isn't very balanced compared to say High Noon Drifter or Dio Doom.
Also get into the real thread. >>>/v/14725630
cc5286 No.14755970
710bda No.14763659
>>14718048
Just skip the game and go play Duke 3D which is better in literally every way but mods. Doom and Wolfenstein 3D are important for what they did for the genre but as actual games they're obsolete and have been done better.
4b697c No.14764371
>>14718108
You only need two keys…
4b697c No.14764402
>>14733233
I gave up on eternal doom, the early levels were hard as fuck without finding secrets, was always running out of ammo.
681a3d No.14770485
>>14763659
>>14763786
Duke3d was garbage: 60% of the guns feel like pure shit, the death animations for the enemies are stiff and unsatisfying, the attempts at humor were reddit-tier at best, the graphics were shit and outdated for 1996, etc.
ea504b No.14770897
>>14733233
those are some really ugly texture combinations
126ef4 No.14771099
>>14740474
>>14747773
Only the maps made by Sverre Kvernmo and Jim Flynn are good.
2b3968 No.14772573
681a3d No.14773690
>>14772573
Duke is Reddit's god you retard.
cc5286 No.14780288
9bf683 No.14780307
>>14780288
I don't know what 681a3d might be referring to but John St. John is a known SJW.
e6a35b No.14780320
>>14780288
Since he's a retard and for fuck's sake stop bumping this mediocre thread it was about to fall off.
>>14780307
He's badmouthing DN3D which is long before DNF and even longer before JSJ's respect dropped.
681a3d No.14790044
>>14780288
Since his inception.
>le funny reference one liners
>epic and over le top guns
>this character will piss those pesky feminazis right off >:) but please dont hate on women though i beg you
dec0df No.14790154
>>14751288
I keep getting runaway script errors. Only 4 maps into a 32 map wad. Nothing I can do to fix it apparently. Life is suffering.
e9a4ff No.14790184
If anyone remembers me, I'm the anon from the thread about "good games for a ten year old" or something like that, Pics related, and a slightly different picture for proof, I suppose.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know, OP, she just yesterday beat Doom 2.
She's 8, and her gaming experience consists mostly of Mario, Animal Crossing and Terraria.
What's your excuse?
Before you ask, it was on Hurt me plenty. She was adorably proud of beating all of the later levels.
522242 No.14790289
>>14790184
>What's your excuse?
Don't need one because most of us have already played through Doom 2 at a young age.
031e6e No.14791631
>>14718331
I thought Petersen was a visionary.
1af52b No.14791852
>>14790184
Didn't imagine kids today could appreciate this stuff let alone play it all the way through. I'm impressed anon, could do some good giving perspective between vidya then and now.
bf543b No.14791877
>>14791852
Not all kids are beyond fucked in the head. I mean you could have them raised up on 2hu and metal slug.
031e6e No.14791883
>>14790184
Fucking precious.
bd818f No.14792307
>>14790184
That's pretty good, but she's probably got a lot of practice doing the mazes on the back of cereal boxes, so it couldn't be that bad.
02abbe No.14792454
>>14791877
Don't pretend that raising children on 2hu wouldn't make them unbelievably autistic
4a4614 No.14792571
4a4614 No.14792588
>>14792454
that's good though, we must weaponise autism
fcd66b No.14801710
>>14792454
So they'd fit in on /v/.