/v/ - Video Games

Also on that note, does anyone know what happened with DaggerXL? It looks abandoned.

>>14664586

I think OpenMW and Tamriel Rebuilt will be finished, both project are doing a lot better than they did before.

>>14664590

It's not dead yet but development is slow: https://github.com/luciusDXL/XL-Engine

Also there is Daggerfall Unity which does a good job too.

OpenMW is good and check out Daggerfall Unity, it seems to have promise.

>>14664636

Linked the wrong link: https://github.com/Mindwerks/XLEngine

>>14664586

>Do projects like these bring hope for the future, or are they overly hopeful projects that are destined to fail?

There's a lot of projects like this that reached 1.0 status. A good example that happened decades ago was "Exult". Which was an attempt to remake the game Ultima 7's engine. It was completed a few decades ago and now you don't need to play the game with dosbox.

There's lots of examples of engine ports like this but they usually occur for simpler games like first person shooters. Whether or not these projects finish usually has more to do with how many people consistently work on them. (Since usually these projects will have dozens of people who contribute but only 1-2 actually do any real work. Which is the case with OpenMW iirc since 1 guy does most of the work on it and the rest just do small stuff and leave after a month).

>>14664590

>Also on that note, does anyone know what happened with DaggerXL? It looks abandoned.

The guy making it eventually just stopped caring and updates stopped. He promised it'd reach Beta many years ago and it never did. He also refused to GPL it.

It's not really that relevant anymore because people got fed up with waiting and started work on porting the game to Unity instead. Which will probably be better because it'll allow for mods to be made rather than ontop of waiting for a port to a new engine hoping someone makes an sdk and a level editor after the 1.0 release.

What's more disappointing about DaggerXL is more that he planned to do ports of other games, not just Daggerfall. Like his port of Blood and Dark Forces 1 was almost done he just never bothered to finish them.

>>14664858

Damn right. But the idea of OpenMW is to create an engine that will also allow people to make games from scratch. Here some more fancy shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDr7o-Ft4R4

Oh and Navmesh pathfinding. Also neat.

>>14664902

Well that shit isnt in yet. Navmesh pathfinding might be in 0.44, shadows are available with the dev/git build

>>14664629

I don't really like Morrowind but I always love hearing the German speak about improvements.

DaggerXL was Lucious holding out hoping Bethesda would pay him for the project and they never did.

Is there an image showing the current progress of tamriel rebuilt?

OpenMW is proper rebuild of the original engine (without Bethesda Gamebryo)

Maybe we can finally play Bethesda game that isnt buggy on the engine level one day.

>>14664882

holyshit those escort quests might actually be doable now. Fucking Vanilla AI is retarded.

>>14664882

This is what I was waiting for. Of all the things I was hoping OpenMW would alleviate shitty AI pathfinding was square at the top of the list. For me it really ruined the game experience when the enemy you're fighting gets stuck on a brick or something and just runs in place.

>>14665431

Yeah, the times i had reload a save game thanks to a retarded NPC are a lot. One time i just fired up the construction and build a bridge because one kept falling off some rock constantly. Also this way of path finding will save a lot of time if youre going to build new areas.

>>14665413

One guy is already trying to port over New Vegas. Landscapes and some cities are already in.

>>14664586

OpenMW is very promising, especially once Zini begins the fabled process of "dehardcoding", which is taking all the mechanics that are written into the C++ and making it so that mods can freely change them, meaning it will be possible to add new features like movement mechanics or new magic effects.

In case anyone remembers me from the last thread, I'm the madman who somewhat implemented climbing and limb damage into the game through the existing scripting system. I ran into a significant wall with both of them and don't intend to finish them but I'll be implementing much better versions into the engine itself since my friend and I are making a standalone game which edits source code. When the game is eventually dehardcoded, the features will be able to be used in regular OpenMW.

>>14665939

How is working with the engine? Is it easy to program for?

>>14665939

Damn that sounds good.

>>14665967

Easy enough, and a lot easier than doing it in mwscript. For the climbing and combat stuff I had to make my own trigonometry functions with basic math operations, and I had hundreds of lines for really simple shit like a scaling fatigue cost for casting spells just because I had to fight with the engine for control of mechanics.

The guy I'm working with is doing some pretty crazy shit with the AI since he studied psychology for four years. He's making the radiant AI we were promised in Oblivion and more, like NPCs can remember objects that they see and realize if they are gone which will make thievery a lot more interesting.

>>14664586

I fear to ask, but this is technically 16 year old and big empty space without content?

>>14666022

That sounds awesome but I'll believe it when I see it

>>14666022 (checked)

Looks like people like you are gonna tear shit up once OpenMW is dehardcoded. I've seen some guys getting worried that barely anyone would jump into implementing brand new stuff into OMW since the vast majority of the modding community is all over Skyrim, but I'm not worried at all.

>>14666031

My dick will be diamonds once that happens AND at the very least when TR and PT are done. Daggerfall's gameplay is tailored for a large world - it's gonna be a lot more fun with new provinces when it gets ported to OMW.

>>14666055 (checked)

Yes, it's been in development for quite a while, but it's gotten quite fast in the last few years. I think the project will be alright.

>>14664586

Open morrowind is more or less complete already. How the fuck are you this late? Tamriel rebuilt seems like Vapor ware tho.

>are they overly hopeful projects that are destined to fail?

Yes.

>>14666022

>The guy I'm working with is doing some pretty crazy shit with the AI since he studied psychology for four years. He's making the radiant AI we were promised in Oblivion and more, like NPCs can remember objects that they see and realize if they are gone which will make thievery a lot more interesting.

Fuck, that's a wetdream come true.

>>14666031

Would be cool to add boats and carts you can drive and of course the skills from Daggerfall.

>>14666055

I'd simply recommend you to check it out yourself. Just walking around the new landscapes pleases my autism.

>>14666838

They're working harder and faster as ever on it.

>>14666022

>The guy I'm working with is doing some pretty crazy shit with the AI since he studied psychology for four years.

HOLD YOUR FUCKING HORSES! FOUR YEARS YOU SAY? WOAH OH BOY HE MUST BE A VERITABLE AI GENIUS.

>>14666878

He didn't say that, he's implying that those four years help for developing said AI.

>>14666888

I can't argue with those numerals, so I won't try.

>>14666878

Not to mention the fields of psychology and AI are largely unrelated

>>14665431

>>14665910

>retarded AI

Yep, all it did is made you follow the exact path you took earlier

>>14666878

Well compared to most existing videogame AI what he's doing is impressive, this shit has been going nowhere but downhill for the last decade so even having NPC schedules and needs is notable by modern standards.

>>14666853

OpenMW is open sores and literally already works, and TR was hopeless bullshit for a decade but is now closer to being finished than any mod that size for a game that old has any right to be and for the past several years has only been showing signs of growth

The true hopeless projects are those other province mods that are developed by comparative skeleton crews and have like one city done

The one that really niggles my tiggles is cyrodiil since that's the hub connecting every part together and those dumb fuckers started from stros m'kai and are working their way east instead of doing shit you could actually walk to from morrowind

Hopefully OpenMW will spark interest in morrowind modding again and get some of this shit to pick back up, the dream is obviously to have all of tamriel to fuck around with, and having multiple completed provinces would expand further content modding potential exponentially

>>14666022

>the radiant AI we were promised in Oblivion and more

Just tell him to give NPCs conditional immortality based on player presence and quest relevance so the radiant teleporting loverslab rape mod Vivec AI doesn't get merc'd by cliff racers and sever the thread of prophecy while you're waiting for the radiant silt strider system and reading a book halfway across the map

>>14664638

>Spend 10 minutes talking about a good game

>Actual remake looks like modded minecraft shit

Look at this garbage! I shouldn't have expected anything good out of Unity for a second. Soyboys will cream their shit over this, though

>>14666022

>see that AI?

>YOU CAN CHANGE IT

Stop playing with my feelings, OpenTodd

>>14666110

>I've seen some guys getting worried that barely anyone would jump into implementing brand new stuff into OMW since the vast majority of the modding community is all over Skyrim, but I'm not worried at all.

Considering what they are doing with paid mods, I won't worry. What I'm worried about is Bethesda's Meta Jew lawyer magic.

>>14666022

>Radiant AI in MW

Damn I'd love to see that

>>14664642

I think that's a fork, not the code Lucius has been keeping under wraps.

>>14674807

I understand that much.

This is shit looking neat too. But I think it's one of those mods that are bound to bomb hard.

Good news, I got around the bug with climbing so I can release it as a feature.

Bad news, in order to do this I had to remove the ability to grab onto walls while in midair. Without a raycast function I can't think of a way to do it, the way I've been doing it is predicting what the player's velocity should be and if its lower then that means they've collided with something, but I could only do this if you have no midair movement control (which I wanted to remove anyways), and when I did your jumps ceased to give you horizontal momentum from your speed. I accounted for that by setting the player's position every frame to what it should be but this fucks up the physics system in weird ways so I had to revert it.

I also attempted spawning a flying creature in front of the player when they tried to climb and if the engine moved the creature when I spawned it, that means it was colliding with something. It worked when you are over a thousand units above the terrain but otherwise it snaps the creature to the ground even if it can fly.

tl;dr you can climb but it'd be much better if the game was dehardcoded because I have to do weird hacky workarounds to implement this shit.

>>14674835

>Hey guys new mod release, such a big new part of skyrim, they've been working real hard

>Some of you might remember this interior from a previous release, it hasn't changed much since [7 fucking years ago]

wew

Looking at these province mods, I hope at some point someone makes one of those temperature system mods, but instead of being used just for autistic survival purposes, introduces subtle visual filters and audio changes to make different parts of tamriel feel a bit more unique

Will OpenMW fix how often your character gets stuck on the terrain in Morrowind, or fix the weird way you jump?

>>14664665

>refused to GPL it

Why would you do such a thing? Did he have a bunch of horribly racist code comments or something?

>>14668583

>modders make the original game look like shit and totally amateur

No shit.

>>14664586

>Do projects like these bring hope for the future, or are they overly hopeful projects that are destined to fail?

andoran never ever

>>14675980

I've been using OpenMW for a couple years and haven't noticed problems with jumping, and the terrain collision was fixed two patches ago. I don't remember how it is in vanilla though.

Is there map of what Tamriel Rebuilt has done right now?

>>14676181

There are a few floating around, not sure about accuracy

>>14675814

Yeah, that should be possible with OpenMW for sure. But I was wrong, Home of Nords is still being worked on pretty well.

>>14676181

Here you go: http://tamrielrebuilt.uesp.net/trmap/

>>14675814

What kinds of visual filters and audio changes? Our openmw game takes place around a mountain that gets snowy at the top and we can implement that kind of stuff.

>>14676240

Well I'm not an effects guy, so I was thinking real simple stuff like little color tweaks for heat and cold, playing with ways to make sounds a bit more crisp or muddy based on humidity, possibly even different versions of vanilla morrowind's silent hill fog based on weather, stuff that in small increments wouldn't make much difference and you'd only really notice going from one extreme to another, but would still add flavor when exploring these areas that are supposed to be large distances apart and have completely different climates

I don't think it's really necessary for a regularly sized game that takes place in one area, though

>>14676154

Sexy, that's all I needed to hear. I mean I was already looking forward to this, but playing through right now and that's my only complaint about vanilla so if they fix that and make it not crash at all then I'm in heaven.

>>14677346

yeah man like that

how does it look in third person

>>14678256

How far along is OpenMW? I just checked the roadmap, and it says they're only 3% to 1.0?! What's missing at the moment and what's in?

>>14678598

>Like someone posted a thread on his forums asking him to stop posting news stories about the project if it's never gonna come out.

Brutal, how did he respond? Shut it down?

>>14678623

iirc he apologized and said he gets too overexcited

His forum has recently been overrun with spambots so I can't find his specific post.

The thread wasn't even in reference to Daggerfall it was in reference to how he promised the engine was going to support Blood and Dark Forces and then he shifted focus entirely to Daggerfall. And all the guy wanted was to play Blood again.

In the time that he has been working on the Xlengine. Some guy successfully ported Blood to the eduke32 engine and that same guy is working on an engine port in Java. And that's almost done.

What's more sad is that his Xl engine alpha is still the best way to play the original Dark Forces since it was on DOS and you need to use dosbox normally. And noone so far has bothered to port it to something else like gzdoom.

>>14678635

That is a shame about Dark Forces, game deserves more love than it gets. Nice he actually apologized, I'm so used to people in that position turning in to absolute pieces of shit so good on the guy for admitting his faults.

>>14666022

I don't believe a word you said. This shit will never happen ever. Fuck you.

>>14678563

They're 3% through the amount of bugs on the tracker listed between the current version and 1.0, so every time they update that gets reset to 0. It's more useful to look at how many bugs are on the tracker instead of what % it's at.

>>14678891

It's not like this is some closed source proprietary game, anyone is free to ask if they want to test out my stuff and I'll send the current version (the combat and climbing). Embed shows some matt's NPC scheduling.

>>14678822

>All that shit far away from where they're actually working detailed

>Everything just south of where they are currently is still practically just a heightmap

I don't understand TR's pipeline

I haven't played the past couple updates, are they still skipping Almalexia because it's too hard for them?

>>14678975

>They're 3% through the amount of bugs on the tracker listed between the current version and 1.0, so every time they update that gets reset to 0

What an absolutely retarded way of measuring it

>>14664590

>>14664636

>>14664665

>>14676073

>>14678598

>>14678623

>>14678635

>>14678658

XL Engine went open source on Aprils Fools day.

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/xlengine-for-dark-forces-and-daggerfall-is-now-open-source.11556

>>14668583

>remake

that's using the base game that's injecting code onto it to make it look like that you autistic sperge,and it looks 100x better than it did without those mods.

>>14682514

>never ever

What do you mean? You can play it now, it works pretty great most of the time.

>>14678975

Ah, okay, so that's just tracking bugs. Well how far along are they content wise? All the skills in? Missions? I may not be looking hard enough but I can't seem to find a cleancut list of what is in and what isn't in.

>>14682885

Of course, the game is 100% playable from start to finish. The issues before 1.0 are mostly fixes to minor bugs, but I'd say overall the engine is much less buggy than the vanilla one (even with the code patch). The reason many people don't switch over is that it doesn't support the extensions to the vanilla engine that have been made like the graphics extender or the script extender, therefore any mods made with them in mind won't work. Fortunately these mods aren't actually very common since neither feature became a thing in Morrowind until awhile after it was released.

>>14683017

Oh shit, I had no idea it was fully playable. So they're just working out the bugs and adding features, that's great. I'll have to give it a download and start messing around. To be honest I like an extremely vanilla Morrowind with only light patching done so no graphics extender and script extender mods isn't a deal breaker for me.

>>14683017

That and they don't quite have mod support for normal mods 100% working yet. Still, there's likely enough mods that'll work without serious errors that you could have a decent setup if you don't try to load up the most complex mods you can find.

>>14683154

I think I've seen someone streaming with TR installed, but there were a lot of model errors so probably a no go.

>>14683154

Any mod that works with vanilla Morrowind will work with it. The only mods that won't blatantly work are those that require the script or graphics extender. Some mods might have issues, depending on if they trigger some bug or obscure missing feature in OpenMW. /v/ was playing tes3mp, which is forked off OpenMW, with TR and Sotha Sil Reborn, so I assume both those mods work.

>>14683173

>model errors

They didn't register the .bsa

This will happen in vanilla too if you forget to register it.

>>14683173

As the guy who did >>14677346 in mwscript I can assure you that nearly every normal mod should work fine. The number of functions that still behave differently than vanilla is tiny and they're hardly used in scripts.

>>14683154

TR is fine, I don't know how NoM works but if it doesn't require MWSE then it should be fine.

>>14683101

>>14683154

I've been playing OpenMW with TR installed and I have only encountered a single bug in my 40+ hours.

>>14683017

>>14683202

Just tried OpenMW for the first time. God damn is that a better experience than Vanilla. I just wish they had the vanilla water shader, but I read a forum post where that's on the to-do list. All I did was fuck around in the starting area to see that everything worked, but damn is the game way more stable and jumping is so much less fucked. It wasn't annoying as shit trying to get that axe from the tree stump at the start.

>>14683173

Nice to know I'm wrong about mod compatibility.

>>14683334

I think the current water shader is superior, but it does look out of place compared to everything else. It's sort of like Half-Life: Source had Half-Life 2 water instead of the old flat textures.

>>14683378

Yep, no doubt it's a good one that looks really pretty when all turned up. Still the original really fits the world nicely, I'm just glad we'll have it as an option for people like me who are autistic about maintaining the original graphics. I don't want the game to look better, I just want it to run better.

>>14666022

NNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRDDDDDD

>>14682390

Well that's recent although at this point it's too little too late. The Daggerfall Unity guys are way further along, BloodGDX is now a thing etc. The only thing this could really help is a future Dark Forces port.

I remember he githubbed the source but it was only a partial source for the longest time and was incomplete.

>>14682643

Except for throwing weapons, custom spells, potions, enchantments, spell effects/diseases, certain stackable items, various quests, half the shit that makes the game fun.

>>14678822

Solstheim is getting moved, it's already moved in the plans, just not implemented yet.

>>14678256

That's hideous, your topology and form sucks ass.

>>14690067

I know, I'm not an artist. I've learned since to just make the torso a grid of squares instead of giving the muscles and breasts their own topology. I haven't found anyone willing to help me make the model so I have to learn to do it myself, otherwise I wouldn't bother.

>>14689931

That's pretty impressive.

Is there any way to bring back the climbing skill from Daggerfalll or tie this to Acrobatics/Athletics?

>>14690267

I've already made replacement characters for Morrowind, I just haven't been able to do much thanks to OpenMW not supporting any of the features I want or need.

>>14695019

I should have included, I've already made characters so perhaps I could just let you use them.

>>14664586

Does it fix the terrible miss-miss-miss joke of a combat system?

>>14695030

This is some middle age crisis man who wants to relive their fading nostalgia you are talking about. They will never fix that, sweetie. It's the epitome of their gaming experience and they will never choose something better because it will break their nostalgia goggles.

>>14695030

>>14695041

>Look guys, the skyrim fag still pushing his meme

>>14695019

>>14695021

Will they support sliders (morph targets)? Are they rigged and animated? We can coordinate this here or over email (or something else), you can reach me here halbe@airmail.cc

OpenMW doesn't yet support the features we need yet either, but we will be adding them ourselves whether zini wants to accept the pull request or not.

>>14695069

>The people complaining about missing are literally retarded

>The people who fight back against that are forced into a position of defending objectively bad elder scrolls combat

I hope we can get through this shit by the time making it better is actually possible.

>>14695030

>>14695041

Git gud.

>>14696300

The bad thing about Morrowind's combat is that it is overly simplistic and easy. What people are defending is the dice rolls that check skills, which is essential. And it would be possible to make Morrowind's combat a lot better: just create stronger and more varied resistances for the different enemies. Force people to prepare with a wide variety of spells and scrolls so that they're not just spamming primary attack on everything.

>>14696391

>which is essential

It really isn't, see new vegas

>Force people to prepare with a wide variety of spells and scrolls

Yeah, that's bad though

People should be able to go pure melee, forcing them to play in one specific way defeats the purpose of builds

>>14689931

This is looking good too

>>14664629

>December 7, 2017

This shit is never going to hit 1.0 is it?

>>14696497

New Vegas is good for what it was but I really despise that kind of combat in RPGs. It's the main reason I only played through it once. It's cool, I guess, if you want to make some mod that takes the dice rolls out of combat so you can have more of a Mount & Blade kind of half-RPG experience, but to say such a thing is objectively better is small-minded.

And more varied resistances doesn't "force a player to play one specific way." You can go pure melee, but you need a high quality material weapon that is enchanted. And, if you're trying to make pure melee less boring by means of manual blocking and corny unlock able perks, then that's adorable for you. You mad a nice little arcadey whack-a-mole system. But you've cheapened the entire game and thrown the need to develop anything other than weapon skill out the window.

Because with your system, you've made it so any animal can be hacked away at by just smacking it enough, and leveling merely makes the damage sponges die more quickly. So you have a tedious combat system that becomes slightly less tedious with leveling but is always a pile of steaming garbage to play swordfights.

>>14696497

And, for the record, I've seen the video of that combat mod WIP for OpenMW and I think it's ass. It's stupid. Such a thing would be fun to fuck around with. But putting up with that combat system over and over again in a 100+ hour playthrough? No fucking way. When every other action in the game is determined by my stats, why should combat be mostly determined by how long I can stomach pacing in circles around my enemy until I'm bored to tears.

>>14696766

I don't think you really understand the kind of things that can be done with a combat system if you think oblivion-tier "mash button until enemy dies" is the only thing you can do with it

I brought up new vegas because it's not super in-depth but what it does is incredibly easy to understand, the gun skill still decides how good your character is with your weapon, but it handles it in a way that doesn't conflict with direct player control, it just makes that control harder to effectively exert

And yes, you should be able to kill an animal by hitting it enough, that's how it works now, it's just "hitting it" is in the hands of RNG instead of what you or your character is actually doing, and if that RNG was just removed you'd still have the shit combat and the shit enemy AI

>>14696818

I've never seen that combat mod, so I'll take your word for it

>>14696843

I don't want any direct player control over the outcome of a battle. Aside from choosing which spells to cast/ scrolls to use, the battle should be decided by the formula. I don't want to sit through some swashbuckling mini-game every time I get into an encounter. And nothing, in a good RPG, is purely in the hands of RNG because of the factors in the formula that the dice roll against.

I don't want to play an FPS where I get cute little handicaps, like reduced accuracy, until I practice my skill. I want my character skill to be the sole decider of the outcome of the battle.

If you want an action-RPG hybrid that let's you feel like you're in a real swordfights, then great for you. But, holy shit, stop asserting that it the end-all superior way to do combat in an RPG. It always seems shallow and corny to me and it always makes me drop a game.

>>14696497

Are you have brain damage?

The miss-miss thing you jerking about only an issue on level 1 and 5. After that it's nearly non-exist in the game! And thats why you are bullied. Fag!

You can literally rape anything with any play style if you invest (meaning: actually playing the fucking game). You just pushing a meme! A bad one!

>>14696898

>I don't want any direct player control over the outcome of a battle. Aside from choosing which spells to cast/ scrolls to use, the battle should be decided by the formula

>I want my character skill to be the sole decider of the outcome of the battle

Well, this is an elder scrolls game, so that's not really in the cards

You could mod that in too if you felt like it though, I don't think it would work without massive changes to how the game world is presented but with OpenMW I guess anything would be possible

>I don't want to play an FPS where I get cute little handicaps, like reduced accuracy, until I practice my skill

Neither do I, that's why I dislike the current system and want a better one

>But, holy shit, stop asserting that it the end-all superior way to do combat in an RPG

It isn't, depending on the style of the game, I just think it'd be better than the shitty shallow half-measure we have now that is still an action-RPG hybrid but is less than the sum of its parts

>>14696943

Anon, with that writing style I'm sure english isn't your first language, but you don't really have the right to accuse others of having brain damage with posts like that

>>14697098

>let's avoid the truthful statements that anon made and insult his way of saying them instead

You're a faggot. Get good.

>>14697137

I insulted your way of saying them in addition to saying you were wrong

What I was getting at by saying you were the brain damaged one is that you straight up don't understand what my position is and were criticizing a strawman, you illiterate nigger

>>14697158

Also learn to read IDs you dumb fuck. /v/ is not one person.

>>14696898

>I don't want any direct player control over the outcome of a battle.

kys faggot

>>14697194

>comes to an OpenMW thread

>tells people they should kill themselves if they want to play RPGs

>butthurt saging like a downvote

>that spacing…

No, Kill yourself first nigger.

>>14696898

>I don't want any direct player control over the outcome of a battle

Maybe videogames aren't the genre for you, try movies or books.

>but I want to decide which spells/equipment to use

So the player's decision making skills being a factor is okay but not the player's reflex skill? Besides, if character skill was to be the only determinant of success then the game would be massively improved by every combat encounter immediately resolving itself so you don't waste your time mindlessly spamming attack.

>>14697223

>genre

I mean medium

polite sage

>>14697172

Fair enough, I just assumed you were the same person because you were spouting the same bullshit not related to the argument

>>14697257

<People should be able to go pure melee, forcing them to play in one specific way defeats the purpose of builds

>You can literally rape anything with any play style if you invest (meaning: actually playing the fucking game

<What you guys are saying is totally unrelated to the discussion.

Stop acting like a nigger.

>>14697158

Look at who you are responding to. And I'm not criticizing a strawman. I am criticizing a combat system that I think sucks: the one in New Vegas that you used as an example. Try not to project your brain damage on others.

>>14697223

>So the player's decision making skills being a factor is okay but not the player's reflex skill?

Exactly. Because it's not an action game. Why is it such a tough concept for you niggers to grasp.

>>14697257

I did respond to the argument.

>>14697274

It's not necessarily a strategy game either so why should it include any strategy? Saying that it's not an action game is irrelevant, what's relevant is that it's a role playing game. It's about putting yourself in the shoes of a character and trying to think and act like them, if they have to do dialogue you choose what to say for them (but are limited by their abilities), if they want to join a faction you choose which faction (but are limited by their reputation). So what's so bad about if they have to dodge an attack then you have to dodge it (but you won't be successful if they're too slow/bad at dodging)?

Would you play a tabletop RPG where you didn't have to say your character's dialogue to the DM because it should all be handled by numbers? You wouldn't because it'd be boring as shit.

How many dicks do I have to suck to get a version of Morrowind with no loading screens?

>>14697274

>And I'm not criticizing a strawman

I never said you were, I was talking about someone else

I replied to two people in that post, not just you

You're better than this

>I did respond to the argument.

Yeah, I know you did, which is why I responded to it with a rather long post, but instead of reading that you instead jumped onto a completely separate argument about entirely different people, how fantastic

>>14697318

If you use OpenMW it will preload nearby cells if you have free ram so the only load screens are when you load a save, teleport/travel, or initially load the game.

Every day OpenMW keeps going is a day I get to feel smug about knowing how well it would do a decade ago.

>>14697356

Where do you think we are?

This is a christian imageboard, we speak american here just like god intended, learn to read it

>>14697321

But anon, the outcome of every single action was determined by dicerolls in the first three TES games. The only time it wasn't in combat was when you decided to cheese their shitty combat system by continuously moving backwards to get out of range of the enemy's weapon. And I don't think more reflexive arcadey combat is a step in the right direction. The problem with TES combat is that it was always cheesy. And the more direct control you put into the player's hands, the cheesier it gets and the more we venture into the realm of action-adventure.

We want completely different things. Why can't you get that? You want to be able to kill anything by repeatedly whacking it. I don't want to be able to approach an ancient powerful dremora and bludgeon it to death with a club. I want to need artifacts and buff scrolls and a weapon made from some rare material when I reach late game with a melee character. Whether the thing is haggling a price down, or picking a lock, or swinging a sword or blocking with a shield, I don't want to do the thing. I want my character to do the thing. I want my character's success at any action to rely completely on how well I prepared for it beforehand not on how familiar I am with some cool-looking swordfight mechanic.

>>14697399

Nigga, you read that shit completely wrong. I mean that back when the project was new I was telling fucking everyone it would be yuge and revolutionize the game as well as serve as a modding platform that would essentially make everything Bethesda makes a shittier obsolete version of it. It totally is, has, and will.

>>14697420

>the outcome of every single action was determined by dicerolls in the first three TES games

Not really, you were still in charge of mashing the attack button, or waiting until the proper time to continue mashing the attack button, or casting spells/drinking potions if necessary

>And the more direct control you put into the player's hands, the cheesier it gets and the more we venture into the realm of action-adventure.

That's where the problem is here, I don't believe that's true, I think it's definitely possible to make a good strategic melee combat system where the player is in control of what the character does, but the character's skills are still the deciding factor in how effective any of it is, without compromising on either and making it as boring as it is now

>You want to be able to kill anything by repeatedly whacking it

Really? Because it seems to me that's what you want by arguing in favor of morrowind's current system

>I don't want to do the thing. I want my character to do the thing. I want my character's success at any action to rely completely on how well I prepared for it beforehand

Then the game still needs a huge combat rework, just in the opposite direction

>>14697399

>Fucking hell, how did that argument even get started?

I blame myself for taking the bait, the "morrowind is about missing!" meme is pure cancer

>>14697460

Ok then.

Honestly it's never really bothered me too much. I just learned what skills affected your accuracy and just leveled them up accordingly. No doubt it's jarring to someone playing the game for the first time though. the arena and daggerfall system was pretty neat

>>14697346

No, I mean Titan Quest-style transitions between overworld and dungeons: No transitions, that is. I want to open a door and walk into someone's house, or see the first hallway of some mines without walking into them. I know it'll never happen.

>>14697483

Could happen, but that would collide with the exteriors of a lot of places I'd assume.

>>14697502

It would be a ton of work to fix it to where everything's aligned and would require reworking some areas entirely, but I think it'd be worth it. Especially since I'm not the one who's gonna do it.

>>14697518

Could do it like how ye olde games did underwater visuals, where you could see the other side, and it looked like it was actually physically there, but having your camera move across the boundary literally teleported you somewhere else seamlessly

>>14697460

>Then the game still needs a huge combat rework, just in the opposite direction

Not a huge one.

>Really? Because it seems to me that's what you want by arguing in favor of morrowind's current system

You're ignoring what started this argument. This post >>14696497

Where I explained that stricter resistances in enemies (like in Daggerfall) would solve this problem in Morrowind's combat. Then you misinterpreted it as "nobody should be able to be pure melee."

>That's where the problem is here, I don't believe that's true, I think it's definitely possible to make a good strategic melee combat system where the player is in control of what the character does, but the character's skills are still the deciding factor in how effective any of it is

There are already games that do this. M&B for example. I would never want that sort of combat system in Morrowind.

>Not really, you were still in charge of mashing the attack button, or waiting until the proper time to continue mashing the attack button, or casting spells/drinking potions if necessary

Oh please

>I blame myself for taking the bait, the "morrowind is about missing!" meme is pure cancer

Up until now I was genuinely wondering if you deliberitely misinterpreting what I'm talking about to be an asshole or if you are just completely retarded, but you just gave me my answer.

>>14697399

The 4cuck faggot trying to ruin the third TES related thread with is "anti-morrowind agenda"… From now insta report his ass and hide his posts.

Too bad the combat still sucks. Morrowind exceeded at being "ok".

>>14697483

I tried this in the CS and nearly every interior cell does not fit into its exterior building. It would also have massive performance issues because both the vanilla engine and OpenMW's performance are limited by draw calls, but if OSG-vulkan is finished then that won't be a problem.

>>14697580

>Where I explained that stricter resistances in enemies (like in Daggerfall) would solve this problem in Morrowind's combat.

It wouldn't solve the problem, just add more work to preparation, which is fine, but the actual combat encounters would still be boring

>There are already games that do this. M&B for example. I would never want that sort of combat system in Morrowind.

M&B is also pretty janky, I don't want that either

>but you just gave me my answer

Again, that other argument isn't about you, you never once brought up missing, I can only assume you're misreading this shit on purpose to find a way out of this

>>14697589

Oh shut up you dumb nigger, it's not my fault you don't understand the things people say to you, the only person anti-morrowind here is you for thinking the game's perfect as-is and anyone who thinks parts can be improved must have never played the game and is complaining about missing too much

If you didn't realize, this is a thread about OpenMW(and TR), the goals of which are exactly to make morrowind a better experience

>>14697613

>It would also have massive performance issues because both the vanilla engine and OpenMW's performance are limited by draw calls

The fix for this is really simple, don't load the interior cell until the player goes to open the door, like what metroid prime does

Though that still leaves the issue of loading time, the transition is still seamless

>>14697637

No. This really is the end of the argument. If you think every swing should be a guaranteed hit, then you really don't understand the point. When you left-click your mouse, you are not swinging your weapon. You are rolling a die to determine how well the character swings his weapon. And if you don't see how this is so great of a distinction or just don't agree with that, then I will never be interested in any combat system you are proposing. There is no reason to argue anymore. You want Morrowind to move in one direction and I want to move it in the opposite direction. I'm am fully convinced that I don't like what you like and there is no misunderstanding between us.

>>14697679

>When you left-click your mouse, you are not swinging your weapon. You are rolling a die to determine how well the character swings his weapon.

I understand that, there's just a conflict in how the game presents it and I think we have the ability to more accurately simulate what your character would do and how their skills would affect it without needing to rely on such a ramshackle system

Whether changes to the system would allow for more player action, or remove the player from the action entirely, the simple fact that we can do far better in a video game is indisputable

>>14697648

The loading time isn't an issue, by default nearby cells are already preloaded which is why there is no wait time when you activate doors in OpenMW.

>>14697859

Oh, you do understand? Well you did a great job of fooling me by saying I think things I don't, and saying everything I thought was in conflict with what you wanted

It's no wonder the argument wasn't going anywhere

>>14697712

Honestly more anims would solve this problem entirely. The abstract meaning of the miss is that your character is inexperienced and swung ineffectively, possibly telegraphing his movements too much against an agile and experienced opponent or messed up the form enough to get no power in the swing. Some kind of off-kilter, wobbly animation to really communicate that the character has no idea what he's doing would eliminate a lot of the frustration. As skill improves and you start hitting more consistently, you would see the character use a more consistent form communicating real growth. I think a dodge animation would be good too, because there will be some cases where you aren't bad but your enemy is just super good, like in Death Blow of Abernanit. Blocking an attack already triggers an animation, that may be something to build off of. Getting a missed swing animation would be much more difficult due to how hit chance is calced. Maybe separate those so a swing can fail like a spell or be blocked/dodged in the same way reflect/absorb is calced separately from casting chance.

>>14697925

What year are those screenshots from? If they're old enough, they could be when Bethesda was still making it on their in-house engine.

>>14697958

>>14697962

Huh, most of those assets and locations in the higher-res screenshots look near-final for the most part. I really wish those low-res ones were available in higher quality though. It's hard to make out the details.

>>14697941

More animations solves the presentation problem, but not the combat itself, which is still elder scrolls combat

What I think a more action-based approach("action" as in the physical movement sense, not as in the genre) would solve is taking that character inexperience and making it a simulation instead of an abstraction

Instead of doing a regular attack and the game retroactively deciding it was shit, a simulated system would have the character be actually fucking shit at attacking and then have that representation decide what the attack will do rather than show you what the abstract math decided

I mean, I'm under no illusions that that's not a hell of a lot more work, but morrowind is worth doing work for

>>14697998

There's a large probability that the low res ones are just CG mockups from way earlier in development

>>14698020

That very well could be the case. Some of the high-res ones give off that vibe though.

>>14698020

Well, at a simulation level, it'd still be based on the abstract math to reach a deterministic outcome anyways.

That said, makes me wonder if it would work - the amount of effort to do aside - to do paired animations. Similar to how games have takedowns or grabs where you animate both character rigs with associated animations, you would have the underlying math determine the outcome based on skills or resistances, etc and then have both the player character and target play appropriate animations.

An example would be the player swings, and the opponent defty sidesteps it, or raises their weapon to actually block it, etc.

It keeps the character's stats as the principle driver, but it would LOOK reasonable(rather than the garbage classic elderscrolls 'waggle my weapon in the air at the enemy until they fall down').

That said, that'd be an obscene amount of work, so it wouldn't happen.

>>14698647

In that case you're really just changing how combat looks without changing the way it works. The real downfall of the melee characters is the lack of options, compared with stealth and magic approaches. You really only have one or two skills that you are working on: your weapon skill and block. Then armor, passively, but so what? More actual combat skills that can be activated or automatic, like grapple, trip, disarm, etc…. that might actually make melee characters more fun to play. Not perks, but actual skills that you choose in chargen and practice up.

>>14698647

Yeah, that does sound like a ridiculous amount of work

>Well, at a simulation level, it'd still be based on the abstract math to reach a deterministic outcome anyways.

On some level of course, that's what video games are after all

The main advantage I see from a pure number standpoint would be moving the calculations from after you've already physically hit the enemy, to when you press the button

>>14698724

Ah, I see what you mean now. Yeah, that would make sense I think. Would tie to my hypothetical setup well too, as opposed to having to try and figure out how it'd look after you already smashed them in the face.

>>14698715

Hm, fair point, actually. The main question at that point would be how you'd learn them, and how you'd activate them. Some could be tied to the skill level easily enough - we've seen that in other ES games before - but I guess more expansive skills could be learned from NPCs via training or the like.

Activation of those skills is the real hangup, I think. You could treat them like spells to be executed I suppose, but that's still rather clunky to try and swap between an array of skills mid-combat.

>>14699136

Considering we have entire keyboards to work with, adding more buttons wouldn't be out of the question

>>14699202

Very true, though finger travel distance is always a possible concern when trying to juggle a bunch of separate actions during combat. Definitely more managable than on a gamepad either way.

>>14699333

Even with a gamepad, I've always been a fan of the method of holding a button to change what other buttons do, it increases what you're able to do with a smaller amount exponentially but for some reason it's hardly ever done, even sparingly

>>14699991

>NEVER EREVAR

I wouldn't say that anymore.

>>14699506

I would have paid full $60 for a 3DS port of Daggerfall.

>>14679031

Why are you judging them for the quality of the measurements you're taking?

>>14700695

I didn't take any measurements, what the fuck are you talking about

>>14699136

>>14699202

>>14699333

I'm shit at modding, but I personally think the easiest way would be to create a new "magic school" call it "combat moves" or something, have it governed by strength, and have each move be a spell, taught by a trainer in the fighrer's guild, imperial legion, house redoran. Maybe even have these moves eat up fatigue instead of mana. It would be clunky, because you'd be pausing the game to pull them from the menu, just like with spells. But I think it wold make melee characters more fun. And, of course, door/chest bash would be crucial skill to add.

>>14700920

Open source projects that are actually collaborated on don't move at a snail's pace, and OpenMW is perfectly playable which is why people say to try it

You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about

>>14699991

>>you will never have a decently made open world morrowind

We have this, it's called Morrowind.

>>14699991

>you will never explore the treacherous landscape with some lads

We have this, it's called tes3mp

>>14700142

Will you release it with an open source license (any CC one or GPL)?

>>14665917

Source?

Is there any mod at the moment which changes the levitation animation to one where you're not walking in air, or is that going to be a 'wait for OpenMW' thing? I always disliked that.

>>14702302

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/43380/

This one replaces the sprite animations of spells with different ones with some spell effects having multiple different options for magic effects but constant effects can look very annoying with this mod on.

>>14700549

shit, remember when Beth though it'd be a good idea to put Oblivion on the PSP

>>14702302

It could theoretically be done now but would be a massive pain and cause compatibility issues due to the way animation files are stored, so it's pretty much a wait for Openmw thing. That's why there hasn't been a massive animation overhaul mod yet, it's the most difficult part of the game to mod due to Bethesda's retarded engine and the fact that you have to do everything in either an ancient version of Blender or 3DSMax.

>>14702332

It's basically the TES Travel game shit. It's kinda cool though that it ran, even though it probably would've been shit.

>>14700895

Sweet baby jesus why is door/chest bashing so rare in RPGs? I agree it'd be crucial.

>>14702702

I say it's crucial mainly because Daggerfall had it.

>>14698715

>More actual combat skills that can be activated or automatic, like grapple, trip, disarm, etc….

You mean like that Ranger move in FONV where you trip an opponent? Hated that. Sure, just make me back away, potentially out of the fucking range of my melee attack, and what certainly LOOKS like I'm out of melee range, trying to trigger a melee attack.

>>14701766

I wouldn't expect a silt strider to have such a big brain.

>>14702750

Eh, or just leave the combat the way it is. I enjoy it either way.

>>14702702

I assume it's rare because it's a pain in the ass to balance without making something else completely irrelevant

>>14700895

Not only can you not currently make new magic schools, you also can't make spells that don't use any of the existing effects. At best you could remove the particle effects from some useless magic effect, rename it, make its regular effects do nothing, then use some weird scripting to make it do what you want. However you can't (reliably) play animations with it, especially not during combat. You can't really do much at all until OpenMW is dehardcoded.

Lock bashing was implemented in MWSE so it won't work with OpenMW, I'd only be able to implement it if there was an equivalent function to xGetTarget (which gets the reference ID of whatever you attack).

>>14702759

I think it would be fine if all it did was make a ton of noise (and not be possible on metal chests/doors), that way you still want to learn lockpicking if you are a character that needs to be stealthy. A side feature would be breaking fragile things in chests like potion bottles (which could backfire if there's something like a poison that does fire damage and blows up).

>>14702702

probably because then, unless you want to make picks nearly irrelevant, you have make the break cause noise, which NPCs need to hear, and in order for this to work well you need to make your buildings muffle sounds based on how many walls are between you & NPC, and possibly what materials those walls are made out of, and then you need the NPC to properly give chase and make their way towards the player, so then you need better pathfinding…

In short, making one thing more robust demands making a whole bunch MORE things robust, including a lot of AI stuff which this series has always struggled with.

>>14702784

It could be a guaranteed report to the guards if you ever bash in the same cell as an NPC.

>>14702784

The engine already checks whether there's a wall between you and NPCs, the problem is that the detection equation combines all the factors of both visual detection and aural detection, so if they can't see you then they can't hear you. It's a balance problem, not a technology problem.

>>14701070

Human male and female will have an open licence.

>>14702784

Some possible balances could be:

For doors

>you need strength above a certain threshold for each door(wooden doors require less strength than iron)

>each time you try to bash you loose HP, the harder the door, the more HP you loose

>some doors require several bashes

>whether you succeed or not, you still loose HP

See World of Xeen as an example of this

For chests

>you will trigger the traps, unless you disabled them

>again you need strength above a certain threshold

>destroying a chest has a chance of destroying some of the items in it, so instead of 5 postions, you get only 3 and two pieces of useless junk

See Neverwinter Nights 1 as an example of this

>>14703667

Forgot to mention that the areas with an unusual amount of detail (mostly the stomach) is so that it can stretch out nicely on morphs that make the character fat. The male and female base mesh are also intended to be the same, I just started with female since it seems easier to turn breasts into a chest than the reverse.

>>14703599

I would make it so that the player would lose health if he's bashing the door with hand-to-hand while melee weapons would degrade depending on how hard the door is. I liked how Daggerfall had kicking as one of the hand-to-hand animations so I usually used that skill for door bashing, unless it was too hard for it. I haven't played Daggerfall in a while, but I think it was also possible to break doors open with Destruction spells. No idea how I would balance that if it were in Morrowind, but I guess it would alert every enemy in the interior if you're in the dungeon, for example, and not just in your vicinity if you just kick the door open.

>>14702123

There have been a couple of Morrowind total conversions like that, actually.

>>14703667

I just like doing things myself, but I could just use rigify sure.

Your model is still mongoloid tier, I will just give you mine.

>>14700920

Goon.

>>14704206

What makes it mongoloid tier? When will you be able to give me yours?

>>14705019

>What makes it mongoloid tier?

topo flow, althought this is always debatable since some people are really anal about topology when a lot of topology distorts fine, but building topology only to deform can result in really wierd form as well

quad distortion, this negatively impacs uv unwrap/textures and distortion when rigged, you would ideally want your quats to sit around the same size, it's really just good form to do this for textured characters

posture, the posture is just horrible

poor form, this can fold back into the topology, but really what's wrong with her face? the collar bone is far too pronounced and her chest doesn't slant naturally enough into the breasts, it's not as flat as that, the waist is too thick on the x axis and too thin on the y axis. just use mine, seriously.

>When will you be able to give me yours?

I'm just going to replace the head with a better head I made go over the topology again and then rig it with rigify. Soon I guess.

>>14703683

A series of flat planes distorts nicely itself, you'd be surprised

>>14706797

Well if you post it in a Morrowind thread or email me within two weeks I'll use yours, otherwise I'll take your feedback into account and try and improve mine. We also want the male and female base mesh to be the same which might be a problem with yours.

>>14706823

>male and female base mesh to be the same

That would take far longer than soon, I'd recommend you use 2 meshes and converge them at a later point, there are advantages and disadvantages to making a single mesh that morphs, maybe it would be best to also translate between different UV maps as well to keep texel density consistent when translating between sex, a system to dampen the springiness of bones when that sort of functionality is added, as well as turning off and on certain bones, and making the genitals swap between male and female would also be hard but completely doable. How do you expect to handle clothing?

>>14706858

Well the idea of making them the same base mesh is to minimize effort and keep things flexible and consistent so I wouldn't do the things you listed. Texel density is going to be wildly inconsistent anyways because of the need to morph fat characters, and we aren't particularly concerned with realism so we might go for an art style with flat coloring (like Breath of the Wild's characters). We're also thinking about instead of doing normal UV unwrapping to turn off texture filtering and unwrap models as a lightmap to save a lot of time but have pixely-looking textures with noticeable stretching. All the textures would either be made with texture paint or baking from a high resolution version.

As for clothing, the same morphs that apply to the model will apply to the clothes, so it'll be pretty stretchy too but I don't want to make a ton of duplicate clothing models just to reduce stretching. The clothes also won't hide any parts of the model both because a lot of the clothing will be fairly revealing (tribal clothes made out of plastic tarp and stuff), and because it will be easy to show damage visually by multiplying the alpha of a "ripped" texture with the clothing.

Since we're only two guys making a very ambitious game we want to keep all this visual stuff as easy as possible. Implementing the tech for character morphs isn't a problem, but spending the time to make unique clothing models and alternate UV maps is out of the question.

>>14703695

>>14703599

Wouldn't making it damage HP just be solved with health potions or a minor heal spell?

>>14706858

I was asking about how you will attach the clothes I should have been more specific, will you split the body like TES titles, or place the clothes over the body or set the faces to not draw and graft the clothes at these points? I'm mostly interested in the last way since it would allow me to create skindentation or have clothes tightly attached to the body, and not require me to split the body into many separate pieces to achieve this, also while I'm not an engine programmer I'd guess having faces not drawn would be better performance wise than having the faces beneath the clothes also drawn.

while the texel density will deviate with deformations some deformations would end up being extreme, things like chest to breast, or like stomach as you said, but avoiding it entirely with a stylized look is the smart way to go, Breath of the Wild style characters is a smart choice.

My characters models are almost entirely the same between sexs, the only parts where the topology diverges is the breasts/chest and part of the shoulder where it joins and the genitals, so converging them wouldn't be hard, it would just take a bit of time. You would only need to build the one outfit and morph that between the two sexed models for now and only have to add in morphs for physique at a later point.

>>14707032

>>14706922

And of course I replied to myself like an idiot

>>14707032

>set the faces to not draw and graft the clothes at these points

If I knew how to do this, I would. I definitely won't do it the TES way, clothes will just be rendered on top of the regular body, but a morph target could be used for skindentation pretty easily, so you won't lose flexibility here, only a minor amount of performance. It will still have to load the whole texture and won't improve the draw calls, in fact splitting up the model will create extra draw calls which are without question the main limiting factor in performance unless someone makes a vulkan version of openscenegraph.

The ideal way I'd like to deal with this whole stretching and morphing problem is to use tessellation and displacement maps, that way if you make tweaks to the model it won't require you to redo all the morph targets. Additionally you wouldn't need to model extra detail on parts like the stomach since they could be automatically tessellated based on edge size, but neither of us have the skills to implement it, at least not in a time frame reasonable enough to prioritize it over all the other things we have to do. Maybe I'll keep saving all the money I don't need from work and blow it on hiring someone to implement it, who knows.

>>14707119

You could add skindentation morphs but that also means that new skindentation morphs would need to be made at each point someone would want to skindent, I guess you could use tessellation and displacement but then you'd still have the issue of clothes hovering just above the body, and displacement itself at least from my memory only pushes the mesh inwards and outwards and can't deform in 3 dimensions, so it wouldn't be a complete replacement for morph targets in that sense.

>>14707221

Do you have an example of a game that does it the cool way you mentioned?

Also, a weird option if we had tesselation would be to just make the clothes a texture + displacement map, or maybe a combination of that and a regular model.

>>14707275

>Do you have an example of a game that does it the cool way you mentioned?

I'm not aware of a single game that does this, that's just how I would want to do it, I can't see any problems with it other than I can't add the engine functionality myself.

>Also, a weird option if we had tesselation would be to just make the clothes a texture + displacement map, or maybe a combination of that and a regular model.

I would recommend against this, many things would be an absolute pain to do, and because of the topology crisp edges would be almost impossible to achieve, you would also run into issues like having seams between points in the mesh where displacement is incapable of achieving any result, then you would need to have at least 2 textures to achieve what could be done with just one. you'd be wasting resources on something that achieves very little, at least the way I see it working in my head it looks like this.

>>14707304

How would the clothing know which faces its supposed to replace? I don't think there's a fast way to do this at runtime, and if you store it on the clothing model you get massive compatibility issues if you slightly change your player model (even if you don't change the faces that the clothing affects). You could say the same about morph targets, but you can remake those a lot faster than you can fix all of your clothes. Also if you want to do skindentation then how will the model know which vertices to move (and where to move them)? At that point you have a morph target in your model and you might as well do it my way.

Also, seams aren't a problem with displacement maps, you only notice them on regular unwraps because the grids of pixels don't line up, but tesselation doesn't retain the grid structure of the displacement map. You will only see seams if you are dumb and your islands have edges that share pixels.

>>14707358

>How would the clothing know which faces its supposed to replace?

The easiest way would be to have the model have certain cut points where groups of faces are turned on and off and have the model with the clothes attach part of the original body at that point, so if you had a long pair of gloves that only went half way up the biceps and the designation is to cut the arm just below the shoulder and the model with the gloves would contain gloves and then the rest of the arm up until the cut point making it seamless.

>Also if you want to do skindentation then how will the model know which vertices to move

The skindentations are just built into the clothing since the part of the body where the skindentation exists is also part of that particular piece of clothing.

>Also, seams aren't a problem with displacement maps

Seams aren't a problem with displacement maps, the seams would come into play when you need to attach a segment to the clothing that is seamless relative to the clothing but is a different mesh, the main issue really would be that the face normals would be distorted after tessellation and wouldn't flow into the ones of the attached mesh part, you could probably still cover that up, but then there are still more issues, baking from a high detail mesh onto both the supplimentary model parts and the tesselated body mesh would be an absolute pain in the arse, you would need to have many parts of the mesh at different levels of tesselation to achieve desired results, and an artist can achieve better results faster the old fashioned way, then you are layering morphs on morphs on displacements, this would become extremely error prone.

>>14707438

I feel I may need to use some visual examples with this.

>>14707438

Whats the difference between what you're describing and the TES way then?

If the skindentations are built into the clothing then will the skin be a part of the model? I'm not aware of a way to dynamically attach vertices on the GPU and if you could, you still have the big compatibility problems.

Yeah that part of the seams would cause problems, like if you want to do flared jeans it would be very noticeable at the calves but if you want to do skinnyjeans with kneepads its fine since they're distinct objects.

>>14707455

>Whats the difference between what you're describing and the TES way then?

The way I'm describing it allows the body at least to be a single mesh, it would also make sectioning the model much easier since you wouldn't need to cut up the model and spin off parts into separate pieces, it's just an improved version of what they want to do with TES that gives artist some more power, and allows them to achieve better results.

>If the skindentations are built into the clothing then will the skin be a part of the model?

Yes, but this also allows you to implement arbitrary topology to make skindentations flow better at lower poly counts as well as tight fitting clothing, skindentation isn't a major goal for this, it's just something that it would make easier.

>Yeah that part of the seams would cause problems, like if you want to do flared jeans it would be very noticeable at the calves but if you want to do skinnyjeans with kneepads its fine since they're distinct objects.

I'd say a good example would also be shirts or jackets with parts that hang beneath the waist, but really, artists could achieve better results in a more traditional way much easier.

>>14707485

I'll make a post on polycount and see if anyone thinks what you're proposing is possible, but it does remind me a bit of how Sims 4 does it so you might be interested in watching this video about how they accomplished it. They still have swappable parts, but handle clothing layers in a pretty interesting way. They talk about it at 18:00 but you might as well watch the whole thing if you're interested (maybe switch it to yt and set the speed to 1.5x though, he talks quite slow).

After some thinking, I realized that it would definitely be best to do deformation maps instead of blend shapes, it will help a lot with clothing and stay flexible if we edit meshes. Because of this, the male and female model do not necessarily have to be the same (but still probably a good idea). If we don't do deformation maps then instead we'd have to do the sliders with bones to make it equally viable for clothes. Face stuff could still use the morph targets in that case though (since clothing doesn't have to fit to it).

>>14707810

The deformation map system they've implemented is pretty good but it also means that each outfit would need to have a uv map that matches the one used for the body, or bake its own deformation maps, really the time saving benefit applies to the sims much more because a lot of the outfits are very simple shirts/shorts/pants, not armours, or robes or the like you find in a fantasy game.

>>14710892

You'd really need to aim for more even quads to do what you are doing because of texture stretching, and I can't say having such low res textures works good in a final result, a more traditional approach would probably work better, you should try looking at the work of other artists who have achieved similar results to what you are aiming for. Breath of the Wilds texture work is actually more traditional, it just aims for hard gradients, or very low contrasting colours for where gradients occur.

>>14711807

>new vegas

>upgrade

>>14682471

No the mix of high quality 3D assets mixed with the pixelshit textures and sprites breaks up the aesthetic and makes the whole thing look jarring. It's like using filters for emu or doom.

>>14712054

I didn't make that, although I could, that's from Arcane Dimension, and it's how DFUnity should look, but modders are just slapping in whatever, it's cringe, I actually made a body replacer for that game too, but it's clear that modders/developers wouldn't be interested in such things.

>>14712746

Breath of the Wild works well, just aim for that.

>just bones

I still think morph targets are the way to go, it works, it's easy, it isn't limited to bones and allows different kinds of deformations, if say you wanted to grow the breasts you could also shape them, there's a difference between sculpted arms and fat arms, I don't think bones will give the results you would quite want. Morphs are easy to fix as well.

I don't even know how decals are implemented. There's also the issue of colourization, in Skyrim/Oblivion the face has a second low res texture that determines the base colour of the face, things like makeup and skin colour are stored here, something like that for the body would be great, you'd be able to implement features like vitiligo or tan lines with this, although at low resolutions I guess it wouldn't look particularly good in many situations.

>>14715760

How do I keep managing to reply to myself, fuck.

>>14697962

What's strange about the first image is that being a city of large arcologies, seemed oddly futuristic. Specifically the tech level for most cyberpunk movies and novels, but that first image sells it to me, they were definitely using cyberpunk as a jumping off point for Vivec.

>>14715760

How do you want to handle morph targets with clothing and stuff then? It wouldn't be particularly difficult if there was only one, but if you have to account for the character having different levels of muscularity, skinniness, and fatness instead of just two, so the process could take a lot of tweaking and troubleshooting per item.

Decals aren't hard, they just consume a lot of memory so most games do it like Skyrim. It can be the same process that puts bullet wounds on people when you shoot them, it adds a texture to a specific spot on the UVs based on where it collided with a given scale and rotation. If you have a lot of these the GPU will do a lot of compositing so thats why they bake all of them to a low res texture. Because they're UV reliant, this means you can't put decals on seams otherwise they'll be cut off.

In order to customize the body we will need very good UVs anywhere you might want to put a decal, and we'll either use a lot of the GPU to composite textures or we'll use a lot of the VRAM on unique precomposited textures. If someone implements vulkan it would probably be best to not combine them since it will remove the worry of having a drawcall per decal.

Anyways, keep me updated on your body!

>>14718792

what.

>>14722994

it's like highlander but with oppai

>>14731031

Honestly, fuck Cyrodil. Oblivion thoroughly convinced me that part of Tamriel is boring as shit. Skyrim is pretty boring too. Both of them are just vaguely medieval but in different ways.

That's the appeal of Morrowind, and it'd be the appeal of any of the other non-human race majority areas of Tamriel as well. A TES game about the Khajit region and delving deeper into the lore of how and why these vaguely humanoid cat creatures vary so differently based on the starsign and phase of the moon they're born under and the conflicts that go on between the various subclasses of Khajit would be a very interesting story. Furry as fuck, yes, but still interesting.

Sadly, if we ever get another game it will probably be a Redguard game about a bunch of dindos being kangs.

>>14731424

>retconned

Doesn't Oblivion take place AFTER Morrowind? That's not retroactive continuity, that's just… continuity.

>>14731560

No because Cyrodil was deciduous forest in Arena. So they retconned it back.

>>14731560

Oblivion didn't create Cyrodil, dingus. It was already a place with a canon description. Then Oblivion came out and completely contradicted that description.

>>14731664

Has anyone here ever played arena? I don't even know what the story of it is. Is it worth a go if you're a die-hard TES fan? All I've ever heard about it is that it's pretty shit even for the time.

>>14731961

>I don't even know what the story of it is.

Evil wizard becomes emperor imposter, throws you in prison, you break out, assemble a magical staff, and use it to beat the evil wizard. You have to remember that Arena started out as a party-based gladiator game and was changed into a first-person dungeon-crawling rpg. As a result, the story is very light.

>>14731961

It takes place in the days of Jagar Tharn's reign, when lizard men still roamed Tamriel.

>>14732031

>>14732073

>Imperial Simulacrum

Huh, right, should've just looked that up

> You have to remember that Arena started out as a party-based gladiator game and was changed into a first-person dungeon-crawling rpg

Yeah, I knew that, I'd always assumed that that was why it seems so poorly received. Seems most of the early TES games have a development history similar to that. So how is it gameplay-wise? Is it bearable enough to be able to trudge through in DOSBox just for completionism's sake?

So considering that oblivion and skyrim are built on tweaked versions of the engine used in Morrowind, is it possible for openmw to eventually be used to run the later es games?

>>14732507

Yeah maybe in like 20 years.

>>14732507

Yes, but why? Those games are rotten to the core of their writing, they can't be saved.

New Vegas on the other hand…

>>14732646

Playing oblivion in MP could be fun. Giant sex orgy kind of fun.

>>14732983

>How do you know for sure that the lore books written by the Imperials and found in places that aren't Morrowind weren't written by angry Dunmer

Gee, I dunno

>>14731961

Why do you ask stupid questions on topics you obviously know little about?

>>14732507

>is it possible for openmw to eventually be used to run the later es games?

Yes. It is. One guy is already busy with New Vegas on OpenMW, even though the OpenMW engine isn't finished. The landscape, animations and movement are in though. Check the OpenMW forum.

>>14732991

To be fair, you don't want someone making and using an Arrow of Fuck The World in a multiplayer environment and just killing everyone in Suran when all they wanted to do was get to the strip club.

>>14733902

That sounds like exactly the sort of thing my japanese MMO animes promised me.

Really, given the fact that Morrowind is an RPG first and foremost instead of an MMO first and foremost, jamming a player housing mechanic into Tamriel Unlimited and capping a server at 200-300 players with a bunch of different spawn points so you don't end up with Balmora being constantly flooded would result in the best MMO to come out in many, many years. Especially if quests can be balanced for multiplayer, and dungeons can be made actually hard.

>>14736931

If the more broken parts of the game aren't at least somewhat balanced you'd just have a multiplayer meme survival game tacked onto a single player RPG

>>14736931

Sounds like a Battle Royale type of game.

>>14731683

>If Bethesda did Elsweyr now it be generic arab furries. The other cat types would be retconned.

This. I've wanted so bad an Elswyr/Blackmarsh/Summerset Isles setting, but I doubt we'll ever have a quality TES title from Bethesda again.

>>14737003

Oh, the stat loops would need to be fixed. Some loot placement should be changed and randomized, and interior cells need to occasionally reset so everything doesn't get stripped bare. But if people treat it like an RPG, especially if there's some sort of anti-grief mechanic (possibly prison and/or stat loss) that isn't severe enough to make PVP pointless, it could work.