/v/ - Video Games

You mean Pikmin 3 Switch port

>>14639174

they'll include the other two games at least r-right?

Pikmin 2 completely ruined the replayability of the first game with the random caves and autosaving, stick it at the bottom where it belongs.

>>14639149

You give Pikmin 3 too little credit. It actually used the Wii U game pad in an interesting way letting you micro all 3 captains effectively. The only problem is juice is piss easy to get.

>>14639190

I hope.

If they do, UI hope they add both the wii mote controls and the analog stick controls.

>>14639149

More like 3>2>1 Blast off

Pikmin 3 had practically no content.

>favorite boss

>favorite creature

>favorite area

I'd add favorite game but we all know 2 is the only choice.

Pikmin 1 was amazing

after that it was just tired content, sequels shouldnt exist

>Pikmin 2>Pikmin 1

>Half the game is procedurally generated and thoughtlessly designed

>Caves have no time limit so you're encouraged to cheese all encounters

>Purple pikmin break almost all combat

>Day limit removed so you can't lose the game

If I got upset over what people said about games on the internet, the assumption that Pikmin 2 is better than Pikmin 1 would be up there. If you remove time limits from Pikmin, what you are left with is a cheese factory. Mechanically, the only thing that stops you from reducing every challenge in Pikmin 1 to a complete fucking joke is the time limit. And without hand-crafted challenges, it's hard to find enjoyment in exploration and puzzle solving. The caves in Pikmin 2 were little more than scattered treasure behind hordes of enemies. In Pikmin 1, even easy puzzles were strenuous due to time limits and day limits combined with its Pikmin-herding mechanics. If you knew a solution to a puzzle, your execution still had to be strong. The plan you laid out for the day required puzzle-solving of its own that was usually more complex than the puzzles given to you by the game. Day planning existed in Pikmin 2, as well, but the majority of the game took place in the caves.

Pikmin 1 was one of few games that was willing to let someone play for hours and hours, but then tell them "No, you fucked up too badly to continue. You should go to the very beginning of the game and try again." The day limit combined with the daily time limit gave it an incredible sense of urgency, which was contrasted with gorgeous scenery (for the year 2000) that you never had time to admire. It was a very funny feeling, especially combined with the music that also clashed heavily with the knowledge that Olimar and the Pikmin were constantly in danger. The danger was hard to forget with the sunlight meter on the HUD.

There's an assumption among many that time limits are always bad. Always. It's an especially pathetic simplification in the presence of a game like Pikmin, which derives most of its worth from its time limit.

RIP games with a global time limit. A game with a muted sense of urgency and anxiety that hangs over every single thing you do is extremely rare, and the games that followed Pikmin 1 don't manage to pull your emotions around with their gameplay in the same way. Almost no games do, actually. That's why I loved Pikmin.

>>14639262

>>14639666

Please don't fucking bully 2. The actual people themselves and not some newfag cuck blood felt that racing against time for your survival was too stressful to expand on what they cooked up.

The first Pikmin was amazingly experimental even considering the era of videogames and the surprising foreboding "You're running out of time" atmosphere coupled with the silent possibility of a post apocalyptic Earth reclaimed by nature and punctuated alongside the constant life and death fighting with Pikmin topped off by almost "All is not lost" music like The Forest of Hope made for a unique experience unlike any other from Nintendo and arguably from other games, period, but the real focus was the alien and enigmatic, but cute and benevolent Pikmin themselves and what their fighting, working and gathering for survival in return for helping them grow brought to the table in the center of all this. The time limit just emphasized why all this was so important and forced you to explore all your options to get back your ship parts and put down any unpredictable, biologically intimidating predators in the way and I would like to see another stab at a less suffocating limit of days before you're fucked, but 2 did build upon the managment, strategy and multitasking that was already there and threw in neat dungeons to delve into and see what was under the surface.

TL;DR Pikmin 2's only sin is removing the time limit and everything else made for a solid sequel with even more variety to enjoy.

Saving the Pikmin thread from annihilation. Slow threads used to survive a few days here without a post, what the fuck happened?

>>14639645

I didn't even bother pirating it since the people behind Yoshi's New Island were in charge

>>14641011

The game was still enjoyable and had new stuff to fuck with, just tedious at times and the bosses were the only real challenge.

Pikmin just wasn't meant to be Dead Rising and that's not a crime.

>>14644622

Was Yoshi's Island DS any good?

Literally never heard a single thing about it before or after its release and you'd think with the name attached it'd be more of a big deal back then.

>>14639666

>RIP games with a global time limit. A game with a muted sense of urgency and anxiety that hangs over every single thing you do is extremely rare, and the games that followed Pikmin 1 don't manage to pull your emotions around with their gameplay in the same way. Almost no games do, actually. That's why I loved Pikmin.

Thank you Satan for voicing a reason why games like Majora's Mask BoFV: Dragon Quarter, and Dead Rising still retain a strong presence even after all these years. Not every game needs to do this, but enforcing an actual time restriction on the players actions creates some very good interactions and conducts.

This makes me miss overlord

>>14646837

the same thing happened when I first played it but I eventually went back and beat it years later.

I hate time limits in games.

>>14640871

I think Pikmin 1 already struck a good balance with its time limit. 30 days is easy but not so easy as to remove that urgency. You can beat it in under half the time without too much trouble and it can be speedrun in as little as 6 days.

>>14645889

It has the same core gameplay of the SNES game but with mostly bland level design. The aesthetics also weren't as good and the music was straight up bad. The 3DS sequel was even worse.

>>14646932

>>14646837

Funny to hear this because the time limit excited me as a kid, but I know what you mean because it was an uncomfortable excitement. The feeling of accomplishment of getting everyone back to camp just in time was enough to keep me going. You don't just make it out in time, you feel like you "beat" the clock at the end of every successful day.

>>14647057

The difficulty of 30 days is totally dependent on how often you reload. I imagine playing Pikmin 1 blind with no retrying days would be pretty fucking hard, but the game also seems designed for it since you can't get a definitive game over until you use up all 30 days. I remember a friend of mine missed a treasure or two on his first playthrough and they just happened to be two of the optional ones. There's no way for a blind player to know whether they have enough parts until they take off, and there's no way to genocide all your Pikmin or kill Olimar.

I'll never know what a blind no restart run would be like because I would always do practice days when I first played, but I think this is a case of the devs handing over the difficulty options to the player in a very subtle way. The difficulty of Pikmin 1 entirely depends on if the player decides to deal with the consequences of bad days or to retry them.

>>14647057

>It has the same core gameplay of the SNES game but with mostly bland level design. The aesthetics also weren't as good and the music was straight up bad. The 3DS sequel was even worse.

I'd go as far as to say none of the Yoshi spin off games have been good since the N64 one.

>>14639149

>When is Pikmin Switch coming out anyways?

I love that nintendrones literally only ask for remakes and sequels, no wonder they get called man-children.

>>14647959

I thought they were looking for treasure but then olimar got raped by the blob and louie booked it.

>>14647963

Shit I guess I meant the other guys. Charlie, Alph, and Brittany's ship.

>>14647975

Wasn't it just some meteor? It shows in the opening scene IIRC.

>>14647993

https://youtu.be/1-bi6y5qpZk?t=90

I didn't see any and the ending implies it was no accident.

>>14648001

Huh, never mind then. No idea.

>>14639149

I'd expect a teaser at E3. Maybe even some gameplay trailers since it's been almost 4 year in development. Don't hold your breath on a 2018 release though.

>>14639174

No, he means the project that Miyamoto talked about 3 years ago.

>>14639538

The multiplayer mode was kind of fun. Too bad I don't have friends.

>>14647188

>The difficulty of 30 days is totally dependent on how often you reload. I imagine playing Pikmin 1 blind with no retrying days would be pretty fucking hard, but the game also seems designed for it since you can't get a definitive game over until you use up all 30 days.

In general games with these types of timers are easy to cheese once you know the system, or just exploit save states. It can remove the tension that a 1CC run creates where the game forces you to cope with the various mechanics.

>I remember a friend of mine missed a treasure or two on his first playthrough and they just happened to be two of the optional ones. There's no way for a blind player to know whether they have enough parts until they take off, and there's no way to genocide all your Pikmin or kill Olimar.

Lack of information works well with an overt timer for the reasons you said, not knowing how much you have accomplished, and how much more is needed definitely, or whether you did everything right causes anxiety.

>>14639149

Here's a question, anyone played the Wii ports of P1 or P2? I know they added the feature allowing you to choose to restart from any previous day (like P3) instead of resetting completely.

>>14647057

Another aspect is the math of 30 days/30 parts = 1 part per day to survive not knowing about optional ones, but early on you can get some multiple parts on a single day to possibly make the player think they are doing better than they should.

I haven't played 3 yet. I bought a Wiiu used for cheap and still haven't played it. I learned that I needed a high capacity memory card or when applying CFW it simply wouldn't work, as the card would reject putting the game onto it because either Windows is retarded or there's something wrong with software these days.

I never did understand, what's supposed to be the difference between rock and purple Pikmin? What roles can rocks do that the purple Pikmin couldn't reasonably replace and fulfill? Plus they do nothing but throw off the whole color dynamic they have going with the Pikmin imo.

>>14649790

Probably just better and more maps, although there's not much one can do in that regard. More survival/challenge to incentivize collecting resources against the clock such as making juice last much shorter or another x amount of day limit. And then more difficult creatures

>>14649790

Pikmin, and to a different extent a lot of Nintendo sequels, seems to be more about re-contextualizing the core gameplay than adding things. I'm not sure what they could do either but this is why I'm not a game developer or even a software engineer.

>>14649831

Have you considered reformatting the memory card?

>>14649975

Rock Pikmin are basically really nerfed Purples. Purples can stun enemies in addition to their massive damage, while Rocks bounce off instead, which means not only do they not do any grab damage, their damage is modulated by how long it takes them to tackle. Purples can can lift better, but Rock Pikmin are immune to crushing which is why one of the few times you fight a Beady Long Legs variant it's in the water so you don't cheese it. It's probably also why Empress Bulbax doesn't show up in 3 either. In replacing the cheese of Purples they accidentally introduced a new kind of cheese.

>>14649975

>I never did understand, what's supposed to be the difference between rock and purple Pikmin? What roles can rocks do that the purple Pikmin couldn't reasonably replace and fulfill?

Rock Pikmin are immune to "blunt force" attacks like being flattened or pierced, can smash through glass/crystal/ice/armour obstacles. Cannot latch onto targets. Also carry objects faster.

Purple are just 10 times stronger/10 times heavier (which is where the design overlap criticism comes from). Their weight gives them wind resistance (wind removed in P3), no immunity to anything. Have a ground pound stun effect when landing on a enemy. Slow moving when carrying objects. In Pikmin 3 they lost these abilities and only retain 10x strength.

>>14650025

The purples could easily just fulfill the role of smashing crystals and metal. As for the inability to be pierced or crushed, idk feels like a pointless addition for a whole new Pikmin. Maybe redesign it and make it a different color or something to fit the scheme with the rest of the Pikmin

I don't know what your all smoking in regards to Pikmin 1 being hard because some time limit the game is dead fucking easy to 100%, I came back to it not long ago, basically no guide no help from anything went blind, I think I pretty much beat it in a day. The only part I say was I guess a "challenge" were the optional parts, like that giant amoeba the gas monster, emperor bulblax which are pathetically easy. I find the dungeons in the second game were way more tricky at least the later ones in the game, just due to the way the game handled hazards, the bosses themselves were really well made, fuck I watch some speed runs and learn about tricks to bosses I didn't even know you could pull off on them.

Not mention the game just felt bigger, and I liked the fact it does not just suffice of the world that's huge and has changed greatly, but the earth underneath you is almost like a different world, like how there just random toys and full on houses which leads me to believe everything that was left behind humans was buried under the very earth it's tragic honestly to see remnants of houses huge metal structures and bits and peace's of places and things forming these massive and expansive caves, the final boss uses weapons of war against you showing if left uncheck something like that can be deadly, the game it self is evoliving the pikmin grew after olimair first vist to handle the harsher elements of the world and so did the beast as well, showing just how quickly things could devoleped in a small time away.

Tldr: Pikmin 1 was easy even with the time limit and I felt what they did in pikmin 2 built on not just the gameplay but the world it self.

>>14650174

Yeah, Pikmin 1 was subtle about the Pikmin world actually being a destroyed Earth, and then Pikmin 2 slaps you in the fucking face with it by giving you a Duracell battery on day 1. Not sure why being extremely blunt about it makes it better except that it helps out retards. I knew what was going on in Pikmin 1 and I played it when I was 8.

By the way, you can't play a game blind if you've already played it. Not how it works. No one thinks Pikmin 1 is a hard game if you've already played it, because what makes it hard is your limited knowledge of the environment.

>>14650753

>the Duracell batteries is a localization change

Huh. Didn't know that.

I always assumed that Nintendo got paid for the advertisements in Pikmin 2, which really put me off from the very beginning. Anyone know if Nintendo ever made a statement about it? It came off as sleazy.

I'm honestly torn on how to rank the 3 main titles.

<1 created it all and design-wise was utterly taut. The downside was that there wasn't that much content really and once you've beating it a couple times it feels like there's not much else to do.

<2 made some major missteps by completely removing the global timer and by having the caves be devoid of the day timer. On the other hand it had shitloads of content, interesting monsters, new interesting pikmin, and a much better challenge mode (with co-op!). Also, the piklopedia and treasure hoard screens were a good idea. Some of the enemies are surprising and interesting, and it feels like there's a whole world of things out there to interact with.

<3 fixed the timer issues of 2 and added some more new features, with the UI actually being pretty decent at managing captains, and the challenge mode really is a challenge. On the other hand the game went too far toward being cinematic, reducing the challenge in place of spectacle (particularly with the bosses) and making things appear interesting instead of behaving interesting.

Maybe instead of trying to say which one was the best as if such a statement is in and of itself fact we could just discuss elements we enjoyed in each game, or parts we didn't like.

I really liked the new pikmin in Pikmin 3, the rock Pikmin have so far been the best new addition to Pikmin, they fill a nice niche, they have multiple uses, and they don't feel cheap, they even get around enemies that crush players, they also help even out reds dominance related to their combat dominance, now you have 2 different ways to attack enemies with different results.

I really enjoyed the bosses in Pikmin 3, I think Quaggled Mireclops is my favourite in the whole series, it's deadly as fuck, it can kill pikmin very quickly but can be skillfully defeated, it is able to alter his arena, and there are many opportunities to damage it but few safe ones.

I liked the environment and level design in Pikmin 3 the best, visually it was just great to look at, and the environments felt especially comfy thanks to their scale, the water in the game is excellent, and it's great that objects colliding with the water cause droplets to fly out of it, and make ripples appear, the water caustics being based of of actual ripples on the surface is a great effect as well. I'm actually excited to see where Pikmin 4 lands visually with Nintendo adopting physically based lighting for their Switch games, and the Switch having a significantly larger cache of ram allowing higher resolution textures, the Onion looks great as well, very delicious.

The one thing Pikmin 4 needs more than anything is more levels/content, but not in the form of endless randomly generated caves, that's on my list of things I hope we never see again.

>>14639149

I didn't like that Pikmin 3 had no Enemy Encyclopedia.

>>14651033

I wish they would do the piklopedia again but this time allow you to hop into a "simulation" or something to interact more with the creature than just throwing carrots at it. Also maybe it's just me but it felt like creature behaviors in 3 were curtailed and that there were fewer instances of different species interacting with each other.

Also, in a similar vein:

>pikmin 1

26 enemies (6 bosses)

>pikmin 2

64 enemies (12 bosses)

>pikmin 3

55 enemies (10 bosses)

>>14651024

>those ideas

You've added nothing of any value to the core gameplay, Pikmin at no points needs to go open world, at most it should just have points where levels connect directly, but still structured similarly, Pikmin thrives off of routing and puzzles, an open world would negate these entirely.

>>14651057

>at most it should just have points where levels connect directly

That's the sort of thing I was referring to.

>Pikmin thrives off of routing and puzzles, an open world would negate these entirely.

Pikmin restricts movement enough that there shouldn't be an issue along the lines of, say, BotW. In the context of competition, you'd have competitors sabotaging each others' routes and coming up with efficient ways to create inefficient obstacles. In the context of having to change your base of operations periodically, it would mean puzzles and routes probably reset and have different solutions when approached from different angles.

>>14651024

The first idea is undeniably awful until you disassociate it from Pikmin entirely. It's the Paper Mario: Color Splash of Pikmin.

As for the 2nd idea, I think playing with dynamic elements of the environment is definitely something Pikmin can do more of. In Pikmin 1, certain enemies would only be present at certain times of the month. There's no reason why there couldn't be enemies that appear at certain times of day (afternoon, evening, night) or in certain weather conditions.

I'm not sure about playing Pikmin without being given the time to think about the next day while you're in the ship, though. The save point and respite offered to you every 15 minutes I think works extraordinarily well.

What I could get behind is if the game didn't force you to take off when the day was done, but instead barraged you with enemies until you either chose to flee or get absolutely demolished. So if you need that extra second to get a part to the ship, you can have it, but you'll also be putting everyone in a lot of danger.

>>14651182

>What I could get behind is if the game didn't force you to take off when the day was done, but instead barraged you with enemies until you either chose to flee or get absolutely demolished. So if you need that extra second to get a part to the ship, you can have it, but you'll also be putting everyone in a lot of danger.

This is a good idea

>>14651182

>>14651205

This possibility so fucking much. We've seen countless times how fast the surface rapidly goes to shit and like how the world almost transforms underground, amazing new secrets and passages could open up.

What would you think of a kind of stealth mechanic at night where the more Pikmin you take with you, the easier you get spotted or heard then have to hide and 100 Purple would obviously be suicidal for your little bros unless you become a living TAS in the next 5 seconds? What if this tied into an optional challenge of having no less and no more than 1 of every Pikmin to access and conquer a certain area to absolutely ramp up using your head to the max? We could effortlessly see a "nocturnal" mode that logically raises aggression, senses and enemy strength and even have a way to acquire Bulbmin venturing out onto the surface escorted, now with a special ability that gives you reason to get everyone safely back inside the Onions or wherever else then take cover with 3 Purple at most to go hunting by getting the jump on the pack leader and quickly scaring the runts into submission if they don't want to be eaten by the other Bulbax, then use your newly acquired forces to get the fuck back to the ship and finally call it a day as everything surrounds you.

>>14651312

>>14651182

>>14651205

This. Nightime gameplay is likely the next big step for Pikmin

>>14651312

If it were me, the night sections would be framed around the idea that the Onions do head into orbit and Olimar is left on the planet with only the pikmin he had prepared and his wits. I'd include the construction of a bunker that could be created out of treasures in the overworld, but doing so removes the option to trade them in for money. You can choose to hunker down and wait out the rest of the night from within or for intervals of time.

The idea would be that you can't take any treasure into the safety of orbit BUT, pikmin will drop them off at the landing site when they are auto-carrying them. Maybe even include enemies that will steal the treasures and move them to somewhere on the map surface (or if I could be a complete dick, take them to a random generated dungeon of shallow depth).

Aside from that, the difficulty and aggro things you mention would suffice. Bulbmin being useful to fill in the ranks of lost pikmin would be crucial as well.

>>14648292

Ports are hard work, goy

test

>>14651071

Your idea sucks ass, the whole competitor thing is shit for anything but the side game mode.

>>14651205

>>14651182

>>14651312

>>14651564

>>14652833

>Nighttime gameplay

What if they added a new type of Pikmin for this? Glow in the dark Pikmin (orange or green colour) that produce light (bioluminescence like fireflies) that can ward off some nighttime enemies. Design wise they could look like little lightbulbs/top heavy bulb shape. And if any enemy does chomp on one, their body will start glowing too or just their mouth region or eyeballs (so just a drooling mouth or eyes glowing back at you in the darkness like on a bulborb). Or something comical like glow in the dark fart clouds for a less scary creature.

>>14653735

>Glow in the dark Pikmin

To make them more than a night time gimmick, I'd add dark sections to dungeons or maybe the idea that glowing pikmin can mark a target when thrown at them. Maybe make this so that you can see enemies that hide in shadowed areas, or enemies that burrow before they emerge (a glow will appear on the spot before they burst out)

Also I've always been conflicted on giving Pikmin abilities that benefit you if they get eaten. It was only white pikmin that had this problem though. It'd still be cool if enemies being colored was the only thing that happened if a glowing pikmin got eaten. eally

>>14654553

The tradeoff of pikmin death for a benefit could use more exploration in general. They tried it with poison pikmin in 2 but there are a lot of possibilities other than just damaging the enemy.

>>14654613

I think a regen pikmin would be cool, like if it dies it leaves a seed so you can go pluck it the next day where it died.

>>14654619

Didn't flowering pikmin do this sometimes in the original?

>>14654624

It was either that or pikmin that had been squashed just stayed in the ground.

>>14654632

You're thinking of the mamuta who would smack pikmin back to pre-pluck state.

>>14654613

Personally I feel like intentional sacrifice goes against the general idea of Pikmin which is to keep your little guys alive. Not like there isn't room for experimentation. But balancing out a pikmin that's supposed to be kamikazee'd with limited army sizes and the unpredictability of whether or not a player can keep a sufficient number of pikmin alive during an outing.

I did think of maybe a fungus type pikmin that if it was eaten, would grow out of the corpse of the fallen enemy replenishing the number of fungimin that were eaten. Maybe something like that would work.

>>14654637

>I did think of maybe a fungus type pikmin that if it was eaten, would grow out of the corpse of the fallen enemy replenishing the number of fungimin that were eaten. Maybe something like that would work.

Maybe you could get the parasite ones that create bulbmin, assuming the "lore" would allow it.

>>14654637

Eh, kinda, but we're already nearing the limit of what offensive pikmin can add, being new terrain types(water and flying) and a beefy one(rock and the purple ones). Not sure what more you could add save for death effects. Maybe one that slows the creature down while attacking? Or one that can take more hits or give the other pikmin more defense?

How about a mechanic that allows you to "spend" extra Pikmin? You always end up with more than you need in just a few days (unless you're shit), making bringing back the corpses kinda pointless. They could be some sort of power up that you would need to solve some puzzles/get a combat boost or maybe produce a seed that would grow into some sort of useful structure like a ramp or bridge?

no time limit from pikmin 2 was the right direction

make pikmin dark souls-tier of punishing so farming pikmin back up is normal and the onions dont overload with 999 pikmin every playthrough.

Conversely make resources to gather pikmin harder to get (pellets being more scarce, or give less pikmin).

More powerup for pikmin besides flower/nectar sucking.

surgical pikmin placement strikes and less hug the mob to win, which is most common enemies.

campaign co-op.

more creative with level design besides the garden, the garden after rain, and the garden at night. pikmin 2 did it well with the more varied level design.

3 captains to switch was cool and adds more elaborate level design.

Honestly all they need to do is grab all the good things from all games, put them together, elaborate on features and just add more attention to detail.

>>14654682

I didn't like the 3 captains so much cause it made me do much more micromanaging.

>>14640871

>>14639666

while I agree that placing a time limit is conducive to original interaction, you can still perform an engaging or challenging experience without having Parental control timer telling you how much you can play for every day.

It would be cool to be able to play at night, and suddenly the stage is substantially harder or completely different, with areas only at night.

How about the best of both worlds and making one stage or two with time limits on the surface because at night the temperatures are too low or something? forces you to set up and build first before being able to charge in.

Point is, no need to make the entire game the same one-trick pony. This is why pikmin 1 was short in the first place.

>>14654695

2 captains would be more than enough.

>>14654707

Maybe you could find treasures that let you stay out longer? Like some warm clothes or a night light.

>>14654656

I'd actually forgotten the lore behind Bulbmin and yeah that shit is terrifying.

>>14654673

> but we're already nearing the limit of what offensive pikmin can add

I guess the solution would be to think laterally instead of vertically. We have pikmin that can do heavy damage when thrown. If we're thinking about a pikmin that can cause enemies to glow, what other on-hit effects can we do? I've always found it weird that yellow pikmin don't have a stun effect if enough are thrown since their supposed to exude a bit of static electricity.

Maybe take the old classes first and allow them to have some status ailment attached to prolonged contact with the enemy. Then re-tool enemies so that we see things that are resistant to them mixed in groups. For example, armored enemies can't burn or be shocked, but can be shattered by heavy impact. Water type enemies are more susceptible to shock but less to burn. Maybe Blues can put foam on enemies to slow them down and with targetted locations a thing, slowing enemies by hitting them in the joints with Blues would work.

Once we accept on-hit effects, the possibilities open up a bit more. Maybe instead of pikmin having this innately, they first need to "charge" up their effect by interacting with the environment in some way. An anon mentioned that glowing pikmin are in-fact energized. So it's kind of like a super state to pikmin that make them more useful in combat.

>>14654677

Since the pikmin are established as symbiotic organisms with the onions maybe there could be some kind of onion upgrade track based on how many pikmin are in there? That could add a reason to continue farming pikmin.

>>14654682

>make pikmin dark souls-tier of punishing so farming pikmin back up is normal and the onions dont overload with 999 pikmin every playthrough.

This makes pretty good sense tbh. And the thing about the caves not having a time limit at all is offset by the fact that you are hard capped at however many pikmin you bring in with you. Randomized levels are still dumb though.

>>14654673

>Eh, kinda, but we're already nearing the limit of what offensive pikmin can add

One thing that might work is targeting specific body parts. 3 fleshed this out a bit, and maybe you could have different parts more sensitive to different sorts of attack. 3 did that a bit using rock pikmin to break a crystal carapice. Also, what about a pikmin type that's weak but is resistant/immune to the universal shake-em-off move?

>>14654707

>How about the best of both worlds and making one stage or two with time limits on the surface because at night the temperatures are too low or something?

That would raise the question of temperature-resistant pikmin. Reds, being fire resistant, should be able to handle high temperature. Maybe add a light blue cold-resistant pikmin? The captains' suits should be immune to temperature differences.

>>14654732

>>14654727

What if you combined the elemental thing with a new spray that "activates" the element dormant in the pikmin? Reds can do fire damage, yellows can shock, blues can drown (?), etc.

>>14654736

That would be cool, I never used the spray in 3 very much, but i they integrated it more and made it more necessary then it would be good.

>>14654736

That would mean you could soft-gate certain areas and items behind enemies that are weak to specific elements, requiring you to have 2 resources - appropriate pikmin and the right spray.

>>14654746

The sprays have always been casual-aid for some reason.

>>14654736

A spray would be nice

Also, one thing I noted in Pikmin 2 that I found lacking in 3 was how they presented upgrades. Finding an old toy and using it to make better space suits is better than the little gacha balls they had in 3. I like the treasure list from 2 quite a bit.

>>14654772

The upgrades in 2 were probably one of the better things they added but then ignored in 3. It made it so you might have a better time with a certain part of the game if you came back later with more upgrades. Also, the rocket fist was my shit and actually made attacking as a captain viable, which was sometimes strategically significant.

>>14654637

They have those mushroom pikmin that some mushroom creature creates in the first one

So here's how I would go about incorporating a night time mode to the game.

Fatigue system

>Go back to two captain's at max on the planet

>you have more captains on the mission (let's assume 3 for now)

>new mechanic is fatigue system: Captains need rest and can go one full Day/Night cycle without sleep but will need to sleep one Day and/or night cycle to recover stamina.

>attempting to keep a captain active after one full day/night cycle has passed will result in them passing out after a time and needing a new captain to come rescue them.

Enemies and Pikmin

>You can opt to stay overnight but the Onion's and ship will enter into orbit leaving you without the means to pull from your Pikmin Bank.

>Enemies will constantly spawn by emerging from underground at all locations including the landing site.

>Enemy Aggro range is increased, they are more hostile.

>massive numbers of enemies will appear and even work together

>Bulbmin will now spawn in the overworld

>maybe some night time specific enemies as well

>If you lose all pikmin something bad should happen, maybe the Captain is kidnapped and placed randomly on the overworld and guarded by enemies.

Caves

>Caves return, have some that are only accessible at night

>time passes while in a cave, or maybe caves will always increment time at a fixed unit (based on difficulty)

>Caves are treasure vaults and sometimes contain upgrades

Bunker

>Using items found in each zone, you can construct a zone specific bunker but those treasure are no longer counted towards your point total

>bunker allows you and up to 100 pikmin (no bulbmin) to seek shelter

>you can pass the time until dawn when the ships arrive inside the bunker

>>14650082

Just make a scenario where you find something that looks like a purple candypop bud, but have it actually be the purple onion buried underground. You could have the justification that growing deep in the ground/in rock led them to be born with thick skin and become resistant to crushing.

>>14654673

>Goolix/Wraith Pikmin

>resistance to fire damage (will eventually boil away)

>immunity to electricity (could possibly conduct electricity for puzzles)

>lower resistance to water (will diffuse into the water)

>lower throw height/distance (throwing goo is really fucking hard)

>grabs enemies by sticking to them (takes more shakes/a hard shake from enemies to remove)

It works with the pre-existing hazards and puzzles while providing some puzzles of it's own. It's also works within the lore, so nothing new really needs to be contrived. I had some other ideas, but they didn't seem to mesh as well as the other ones.

<turns into puddle instead of being planted (can be drunk by other pikmin, killing it)

<drinking puddle gives pikmin resistance to damage/being eaten (may not count as a death due to the nature of Wraiths)

>>14654768

All they do is supercharge attack temporarily and immobilize certain enemies so that only Purple Pikmin can damage.

I honestly never found anything but the former ever helpful.

>>14659545

All pikmin can damage a petrified enemy. And you can petrify any enemy including the bosses so it's useful across the board.

>>14650025

Haven't been able to try out Pikmin 3, but I think Rock Pikmin are a neat experiment that was also testing what they could do with new destructible environment physics for puzzles.

Let's review:

>uniquely bounce off because of body instead of latching on unlike any other Pikmin

>immune to smashing

>only Pikmin to outright destroy the environment

>can carry faster, but obviously not fat little tanks like Purple

>open up new possibilities and even entire physics (throwing an "Arrowhead" Pikmin far with piercing and maybe even anchoring properties) of Pikmin in more than colors while not rendering them obsolete or abandoning them (neat Gray Pikmin idea)

Just give Purple less broken shit and give them more to set them apart from Rock so a player will actually seriously contemplate which to use for more than breaking shit.

>>14659675

>only Pikmin to outright destroy the environment

That's really arguable. Pikmin have been busting down walls forever at this point, Rock Pikmin really just break down walls with certain skins. If Purple Pikmin had their own specific wall it would be the exact same thing. As a matter of fact that's how Yellows used to be with their bomb rocks and how they are with electric walls. Unless there's something I'm missing aside from enemies specifically designed for Rock Pikmin, that's not really a good point.

>>14654727

It's strange they never expanded on "Parasite Pikmin" as Olimar officially classified them. Maybe they just wanted 3 to be beautiful and something like that while feasible and insanely evolutionarily helpful for completely turning the tables against predators just seemed too dark and morbid. The Pikmin are clearly intelligent and codependent on each other, so why don't their kin do more than mind jack Bulborbs or even try to help them?

>>14659634

I could have sworn they break out of it almost instantly and even explode angrily knocking off everything as a drawback.

>>14659729

>I could have sworn they break out of it almost instantly and even explode angrily knocking off everything as a drawback.

The downside to petrification is that enemies that are killed while frozen don't leave a body which is going to fuck up your encyclopedia entries if you use it to deliver the finishing blow to a boss or other unique enemies among other situations. I don't even think it loses effectiveness with repeated uses and it lasts a few seconds.

And the bodies have a tell before they break out but the enemies don't explode out, they just resume action.

>parasite pikmin

they read as a cordycep fungus. Turns out Pikmin 2 was a sequel to the Last of us. But given all the stuff that Pikmin 3 didn't bring over from 2, and the fact that Bulmin were tied to the cave structure, it makes sense why they didn't come back.

>>14659722

It's more than walls. They can shatter surfaces like glass, ice and even diamond to collect what's behind it or even expose weak points. You could hypothetically toss them at specific spots on cave walls or even have some kind of trampoline constructed or slingshot to send them smashing into the ceiling. Maybe some annoying elaborate puzzles that needs ricocheting to hit an old switch or building a human ladder to swing them like a wrecking ball into something past a bottomless pit like Olimar can already form in Super Smash Bros.

>>14659767

Pretty sure it was just stated that the species lived in subterranean areas and the Bulbmin just logically haven't been able to get to the surface. They've basically fused with the Bulborb at this point, so it's only logical they could undoubtedly survive exposure to sunlight with that shell.

The only problem is I could see eventually even snaring baby bosses and using their adult to stomp a horde of enemies fucking up the ecosystem and evolution beyond all sorts of repair while having nowhere to fit them, making you basically waste your time. Also hurts the spirit of Pikmin, so thinking even more about it, it's best they leave anything but the Bulbmin itself in the past and appropriately literally buried. Still also raises the question why nothing ever fights over who gets to eat your Pikmin VS cruelly kill them for sport. They obviously have to eat each other when no Pikmin are even able to sprout and watching a Bulbear suddenly barge in and chomp the fuck out of a Dweevil annoying you or a Gatling Groink strolls around the corner to hilariously spam one to death so it can have some fun would be priceless and add even more life.

>>14659815

I'm not talking lore when I say they were tied to the cave system. I mean mechanically bulbmin were kept inside caves because they were used to increase the number of units you had while still keeping you isolated from your onions and gave you access to a unit that was immune to all elemental hazards so they could replace any pikmin type you had run low on or depleted completely.

Their usefulness on the overworld diminishes immediately as Pikmin 1 and 3 hold the idea that if you do something like lose a critical unit, you have to retrace your steps back to your base and get more.

>>14654677

There's already kind of that with the buds that change your Pikmin into another type.

>>14662178

This sounds right.

>>14662178

The only thing against the idea of paying X number of pikmin to get a bulbmin, is that the cost doesn't match the reward. Bulbmin are fine, but in the case where you have access to your own onions, paying a cost to get an all purpose unit isn't that great.

Like I'd said a couple posts above yours, Bulbmin existed in the caves because they were a way for the Devs to give you more units but keep you isolated. That restriction alone balanced them out. I also checked and they only appear in 3 caves from Pikmin 2 so they weren't even as common as I remembered.

I feel like if you were to keep Bulbmin and bring them into later games you need to keep with the idea that

>Bulbmin can't be retained past 1 day/dungeon

>Bulbmin exist in areas that are isolated from player Onions

That way no matter how you implement them the reward for using them is balanced by a very strict restriction on where they can be used. Not to mention with Poison removed and Electricity nerfed, Bulbmin aren't as useful until you give them more attributes as their biggest appeal was being immune to everything.

>>14639149

Hopefully Soon, I quite enjoyed 1 and 2. Never played 3 though

>>14654732

>>14654713

The treasures you find are not just score points that unlock new levels

THEY BECOME UPGRADES FOR YOUR SUIT/ONIONS/ETC THAT ALLOW ACTUAL GAMEPLAY CHANGES

There you go. Warm clothes. night lights. Onion capacity. Extending daylight/nighttime. little jetpack for olimar. Olimar punch doing more damage. You name it.

>>14669026

Collecting upgrades with Pikmin should be fucking second nature for game design.

2 things Pikmin 4 should have

<level editor a la mario maker

<versus mode again

is co-op for story mode too much to ask?

>>14659767

>The downside to petrification is that enemies that are killed while frozen don't leave a body which is going to fuck up your encyclopedia entries if you use it to deliver the finishing blow to a boss or other unique enemies among other situations.

I thought bosses respawned in 2.

>>14671059

>I thought bosses respawned in 2

They do, I'd forgotten that you can retry caves.

What would be the best combination/compromise between the caves in 2 and the caves in 3?

Caves in 2

<time stops somehow

<randomized layouts

<easily cheesed by resetting the console

<feel disconnected from the environment and artificial

>clearly gated, allowing for escalation

>pikmin hard capped at what you bring in, enforcing challenge

>far bigger than other areas in any pikmin game

~have to drop everything else to do them

~strictly one-way with occasional abort option

Caves in 3

<mostly an aesthetic instead of a mechanical difference

>looks pretty great though

<small

>time limit is relevant

>well-integrated into the maps

>can multitask between caves and surface

It would be cool to have one area that's almost entirely caves. Formidable Oak was close but too small and linear. I'd like an area where you basically have the landing site surrounded by a bunch of cave entrances with a sprawling complex underneath full of monsters and paths to open up.

>>14676842

So you want the Forest Navel then?

>>14676856

I fucking hate that music. It just puts me on edge and constantly feel like my poor little guys are seconds away from getting drowned, flattened or bathed in hellfire from the shadows. And the strings themselves sound like they degenerately enjoy it as they casually, deliberately imperfectly strum from the heavens to your misery.

>>14676856

But more cave like. See the

>positive

elements from pikmin 2 caves >>14676842 and with more cave-like monsters.

Possibly my favorite level in the series though.

>>14676891

The caves in 2 definitely had a feeling to them like wilder stuff could happen than on the surface. As you progressed you found crazier shit down there that had no comparison up top, culminating with the waterwraith or the man-at-legs. In 3 there were some unique enemies and some stuff with light/electricity but the sense of getting in over your head was just absent. In 2 you would run into stuff that you knew you'd never see on the surface, like empress bulblax. It's kind of standard in adventure stories for caves to be sort of metaphorical for exploring the darkest spookiest shit (parallel with cave-dwelling humans finding bears and shit in actual caves). Seems like a weird thing to give up but my guess is they couldn't figure out how to integrate that better. It's pretty hard to imagine how to have sparwling underground sections without pausing the strict daily time limit. If you combined it with the idea above about staying on the planet at night maybe it could work.

>>14676920

here have comfy pikmin music

>>14676842

Am I the only person in this thread that didn't mind the procedural generated caves in Pikmin 2?

>>14679041

Nope

>>14679041

It wasn't terrible but it was incongruous with the idea of playing for a high score or speed running.

>>14680358

>playing for a high score or speed running.

I think caves are perfect for playing for high scores since everything is worth money. As for speedrunning. It hasn't stopped anyone from running the game so that's more debatable.

Ill probably revisit the game and apply a self imposed time limit to see how the feel of them changes. The lack of a timer is my only sticking point for caves, if they can't be beaten in a single day I could see some of the longer dungeons having a sort of shortcut built in to them.

>>14680587

Oh no, the caves in general are a good idea IMO, but the random elements objectively get in the way of speed runs or high scores. Random elements inflate the time it takes to get the best possible run because you may get a suboptimal layout.

>The lack of a timer is my only sticking point for caves, if they can't be beaten in a single day I could see some of the longer dungeons having a sort of shortcut built in to them.

Someone mentioned above the importance of "night" as a break from time limits to figure out a strategy. I think the time stop was an attempt to replicate that in the caves. As for shortcuts, I think that kind of fucks with the idea of 2-caves because you used to have to get all the way through the sublevels to get to a certain point. If you could just hop out and hop back it removes that sort of "boss rush" element to it. Granted, you could just pop out, grab reinforcements, skip through the depopulated upper levels, and be right back where you were. But that's pretty easily fixed by having monsters respawn immediately in kind with the shifting layout.

>>14669026

>>14670349

This is so fucking basic. Pikmin 1 and 2 had some aspects of this. 1 had the radar and mapping equipment. 2 had upgrades, such as the flame/electric proof suit, speed shoes, punch strength, whistle range, pluck whistle, and they were given for beating a boss of a tunnel. But at the end of the day, they somewhat just made you "on par" with the pikmin you were ordering and, at the end of the day, made it so you could use a captain to punch all the orange bulborbs to death in the caverns and mop up the treasure.

>>14671059

>Level editor

that would be cool; custom make levels based on where you've been in the main game and anything in your encyclopedia could be used.

>vs mode

would be okay, but I prefer-

>co-op campaign

THIS, motherfucker, is why you're mynigga. My brother and I purple flowered all the challenges in Pikmin 2 and had a hell of a fun time doing so. I would LOVE a campaign that was beatable in single player, but allowed for co-op play just to divvy up tasks to another player instead of swapping all the time.

>>14676856

>>14676920

>>14676934

I think the best course of action is indeed Night time with glowing Pikmin. Perhaps have it that glowing pikmin actually DIE in sunlight, so you have to get them back to their onion before dawn and all other pikmin not only are vulnerable during said night, but completely shut down.

Akin to the Glowcap mushrooms you find around.

>>14685638

Pikmin should generally be hard diurnal and literally shut down at night or automatically go into stasis within their unique biological ships. This would perfectly explain a cap at night or even offer exciting new experimentation with possibly an entire selection you're limited to, like Pokemon Black and White.

Regular day gameplay = Free access to Red, Blue, Yellow, White, Purple, Flying, Rock etc

Night gameplay = All other Pikmin are either completely unusable or ships just shut down for Pikmin to rest. Must rely on entire new strategies with a set of Pikmin that can only function properly at night like fragile fungi that move fast and hit hard, burrowers sensitive to sunlight that can be lead past unbreakable obstructions to reach things or fluorescents that can also stun enemies for more of a neat "don't get detected if you don't want shit" concept.

>>14668614

>I also checked and they only appear in 3 caves from Pikmin 2 so they weren't even as common as I remembered.

They appear in a lot of the challenge maps though

>>14685638

>I would LOVE a campaign that was beatable in single player, but allowed for co-op play just to divvy up tasks to another player instead of swapping all the time.

IMO the point of co-op campaign should be to get a better time/score. Single player should be 100% doable but you'd need two to do it most efficiently. Not a lot of games like that. Even just having 2 people working at once in combat is very useful.

>>14685856

Swapping out for a whole different set of pikmin might be too much. On the other hand, what if caves are like a middle ground where you can have any pikmin you want, making them mechanically relevant?

>>14685856

Night pikmin:

Mushroom: leech life when attacking enemies, mushroom grows bigger and they hit harder (their own version of flower). When they die they leave a shroom for refund some pikmin (since pellets would give less if harvested at night)

Moon pikmin:, glowy translucent so you can see in the dark, They get flower like others, but it glows, and you can see more. Mainly light utility, your VIPs of the group so try and not engage in combat with them, although they hit as hard as any other pikmin

Predator Pikmin: really strong pikmin, but the only way to make them flower status if they eat or eat 2 pikmin each. They hit very very hard, you want to farm for these, but watch out on your resources. These pikmin look wicked, and if they are swallowed by enemies they will hit them from the insides before being digested. This allows new weakpoint placement for new enemies

>>14685992

Why not? Forcing the player to become habituated with different characters or strategies requires them to adapt and discover what they enjoy in a daring move by the developers while not forcing them to stick with it forever. Just like Red, Blue and Yellow Pikmin being staples of the series, a new trio could make a name for themselves at night. You were already forced to seek out candypop buds for Purple and White Pikmin since they were the only ones with poison immunity to break down walls and quite a few treasures were deliberately made impossible for even an entire party of 100 to lift anyways.

GameFreak ambitiously threw you into a whole new land that was almost cut off from the rest of the world and players of BW had to rediscover and find out what they liked. And people either love it or keep annoyingly bitching about it today. The difference here is that this experience is something you choose only when you want to try something new and otherwise play as normal.

>>14686578

>Why not?

Because pikmin has always done a good job of doing a lot with a little. I'd rather have about half a dozen pikmin variants available with opponents and obstacles fleshed out to make them useful rather than having a dozen pikmin variants that each do one thing. I think one of the main things about pikmin that allows an RTS to work on a console is that it focuses on depth not breadth. Maybe if you had the standard 3 pikmin for daytime and 3 new ones for night time it would be better.

>>14686637

This. There are good ideas floating around, but people always get autistic for really niche Pikmin types that do things that aren't very mechanically sound, such as a burrowing pikmin. Keep it simple folks

>>14685992

>Swapping out for a whole different set of pikmin might be too much

Seconding this, having a completely secondary toolset for night-time pikmin is doing too much. I'd be fine with 1 new variant for night time that had a specific use within both night regions, and dark regions in the overworld that didn't have an option for a Yellow pikmin power circuit for illumination. (or maybe they do just with less powerful illumination)

>>14686782

I think Pikmin that dig could work perfect with optional motion controls and could be enjoyable to potentially scout out areas to come up with a game plan or to comically drag certain enemies legs underground and leave them defenseless so they're not too much of a pain in the ass. I could see that for a new breed.

>>14690656

>comically drag certain enemies legs underground and leave them defenseless so they're not too much of a pain in the ass.

Sounds OP.

>>14692590

I could only think of this working on anything with chicken legs.

I wan robot pikmans that cn shoot lasers n but u have to charge em with yellow pikmn

>>14695743

>>14692590

The easy way to balance it is that they always automatically grab at anything that steps over them while buried, this isn't an issue if it's just a tiny bulborb, though they will eventually let go of it and bury back underground, but if it's a large enemy like a bulbear it takes multiple digging pikmin (Hairy Pikmin to mimic carrot's roots maybe?) to pull down the enemy. If the enemy is too large for the amount of digging pikmin grabbing on it, they will get pulled out of the ground instead and will be at the mercy of whatever happened to walk over them unless the player was very close by.This creates a dynamic where the player has to invest more of their population cap in order to ensure safety for the buried pikmin, or bury less pikmin to reduce the loss if they do end up attacked.

I guess you'd have to add some fairly large delay while digging or after digging before they can grab at enemies to stop it just being a free petrify spray at the start of every encounter. Of course purple pikmin's ability to stun and track md-air was pretty overpowered as is so maybe it wouldn't be that extreme.

>>14695763

I know you think this is a really stupid idea but making a daisy chain of yellow pikmin to charge some kind of landscape elements sounds kind of fun. Of course the fact that they're immune to electricity suggests that they're non-conductive rather than that they're just capable of passing the current throught their bodies without harm.

>>14696022

>I know you think this is a really stupid idea but making a daisy chain of yellow pikmin to charge some kind of landscape elements sounds kind of fun. Of course the fact that they're immune to electricity suggests that they're non-conductive rather than that they're just capable of passing the current throught their bodies without harm.

Literally in Pikmin 3 for puzzle solving, they are in fact conductive.

>>14657410

>doing something like a 6 day 100% in pikmin 1 is neat to brag about but utterly pointless.

The accomplishment is the point, dummy. It's Pikmin's form of high score.

>>14697298

Gamers are forgetting the days of self imposed challenges and feeling rewarded for conduct play.

>>14697298

6 day run of Pikmin 1 requires a lot of sequence breaking and speedrunner level autism. 8 day is pretty manageable though just by being very efficient with your time.

8 day in Pikmin 2 is also perfectly doable using the developer intended route. The fact that the game saves when you enter caves makes it easier than Pikmin 1 if you're just concerned about in game time days. Fewer days is possible by exploiting unintended behavior and glitches, but again: Speedrunner level autism.

>>14696022

A trap form of pikmin that you throw on the ground and digs itself into one spot to wait for enemies sounds simple and doable, although really niche. Probably helpful for boss fights if it'd work on bosses and leading on bulborbs

>>14696646

Oh sorry, my fault for talking without having played the switch game yet.

>>14699280

Knowing old Nintendo though they'd probably use the opportunity to make some horrible unkillable wandering enemy that you'd have no other option than to trap and hope that your other pikmin gather all the items nearby fast enough.

>>14701318

>Oh sorry, my fault for talking without having played the switch game yet.

Pikmin 3 is on the WiiU. Pikmin 4 will be on switch.

>>14671059

>campaign co-op.

If they don't make some form of campaign co-op for the Switch Pikmin 4, I'm gonna be pissed. You have two controllers bundled with the system and if a single Switch truly can't handle 2P split screen campaign co-op at least allow for wireless 2P co-op with two Switch's (or more because it's probably going to be 4 captains).

>>14699176

I wonder if speedrunning fans of Pikmin are slightly dead inside after the cumulative body count just to reduce seconds.

>>14726672

I'm sure there's a "No Pikmin Lost" category for people that feel that badly about it. It's been so long since I played the first Pikmin, but isn't number of Pikmin also accounted for in the final score? I know high scores were outdated even when Pikmin came out, but still.

>>14726672

I did my 6 day clear with zero casualties. Avoiding loss and playing fast aren't mutually exclusive.

>>14726872

>>14726672

>>14726943

I'm skeptical that it's even generally advantageous to sacrifice pikmin. Making more takes a lot of time relative to how quickly they can die.

>>14726943

Holy fuck, they broke the 8 day barrier? I did that back in the day. I hadn't heard of shorter times.

>>14726943

How does that work?

>>14729489

They touched on it with White Pikmin and thankfully that went nowhere.

For nighttime, things should be centered around light and not drawing attention from monsters. Perhaps there could be a pikmin type that is able to turn on or off a light. The light is needed to be able to solve various puzzles, but it also attracts enemies, so there needs to be a balance.

>>14729527

You can get every part in the forest of hope without blue pikmin, so you can now do every area in 1 day except the impact site