c5c6ac No.14626843
What's the perfect sprite resolution for an indie developer to focus on that allows for making the fastest sprites but doesn't look like garbage to the average gamer.
16x16
32x32
64x64
70x70
128x128
256x256
653e01 No.14626867
64x64 is pretty good from what I can remember but post more examples
a101f6 No.14626874
Just make 3D models with a 2D aesthetic.
fea833 No.14626878
>>14626843
>16x16
>32x32
>64x64
>70x70
>128x128
>256x256
nigger, i need some examples on all those resolutions
d976ae No.14626882
>Average gamer
So do you mean the normalfags that have infested the western industry or the chinks that have flooded onto mobileshit and are considered "gamers"?
Either way, 16x16 appeals to them for being retro xD
83fff9 No.14626897
Depends on which console you're trying to emulate.
SNES sprites, widely considered to be the best looking sprites, are 32x32 pixels on average, and tilesets consist of numerous 32x32 tiles. Its max resolution was 256x224, and it had a maximum of 16 colors per sprite.
Now you can play around with that, but generally it's better to consider that lower resolutions are usually for NES-style games, and on the NES you could only have around four colors per sprite (not counting black).
Keeping graphic limitations in mind for the console you're trying to emulate will actually make you produce better-looking pixel art. If you don't have a console and its limitations in mind, you will produce very shitty pixel art. Try to work within the feasibility of a retro system.
197e4a No.14626905
How about not using pixel art in the first place?
83fff9 No.14626908
>>14626905
How about you go headbutt the sidewalk?
197e4a No.14626917
>>14626908
Why so angry? Pixel graphics are a meme now and imply incompetent and/or lazy devs.
218f6d No.14626920
It depends more on the color palette than pixel size imo. NES games usually had 16x16 characters, but could only choose three colors to employ. A more modern game character like Cave Story's protag is still 16x16, but with the more unlimited color options offered now + a wise use of color, his small sprite still pops pretty well.
I'd say choose whatever size works best you, but mind your colors. A color palette can really make or break a character imo.
98c4d1 No.14626930
>>14626843
<constrained by pixel sizes
<not just making whatever pixel size you want ant any aspect ratio you feel like
83fff9 No.14626941
>>14626917
There's a right way to do pixel art and there's a wrong way. Devs that are incompetent usually do it the wrong way (like pic related - too low resolution to make out any character details, single pixel limbs, totally unable to tell what the character actually looks like).
The problem is exacerbated by born-after-2001 assholes like you who don't know how to tell the difference between bad and good pixel art and just see it all as the same thing.
6ff14c No.14626982
>>14626843
cheat
>>14626878
because OP is a fucking fag, here
d81f46 No.14626988
>>14626941
Has this meme of that picture reached the dev yet?
197e4a No.14626989
>>14626941
The differences between old and new 2d is readily apparent to anyone with a brain but that doesn't change the fact that the style is now an indication of low quality. The ratio of shit indie games with pixel art to those with both good gameplay and good art is way way off. Much like concepts such as "rogue-lite" or "open world" or "survival" are indicators of lazy design.
But if you want an actual answer, I'd argue the old LukasArts adventure games managed a good middle ground between simplicity and expressiveness. I do not know what size their sprites actually were though.
197e4a No.14627000
>>14626982
Well shit that gif puts it all into perspective doesn't it. Halfway through I was thinking "That looks way too obvious to be useful" but the end result is perfectly usable.
6ff14c No.14627179
>>14627000
Nice isn't it. don't get too reliant on it though:
A) the artstyle is notably…off….(because the artsyle literally doesn't exist) so anything above 128px just looks like a shitty low qual picture- I would personally recommend working off 64px maximum. The program is amazing to get hang of the ropes with for your first few games. Later if/when you gots the experience, I'd use it to cut out the chaff from bigger projects (because no fucking body wants to draw 10 unique beds, stoves, benches and chairs for a shitty side village with 5 mins of story content). It's great for props and the such because its just different enough that it feels unique, but they aren't stared at long enough for somebody to notice them to be ….off….
B) Unique objects and characters need to be homemade (thats' a given).
C) backgrounds are hit and miss, but I find it's best to scale 4-5 of them to the size you want, then use them as a base to work off. also make sure your cheatobjects don't clash. Last thing you need is a toon field and an …off looking… cart/tree
In the end if you play your cards right you can make a background, add your base buildings/features, drop in your unique characters/props then fill the entire screen with cheat props and make it nice. You'll never get something to the extent of the 256px example, but you can make a damn fucking fine scene and replicate a similar quality in under half an hour- an hour for each new scene (instead 7 hours per fucking house). And for the final time, make sure it isn't too fucking obvious.
6ff14c No.14627182
>>14627000
also checked, nice one
136323 No.14627240
>>14626982
>>14627000
the reality is that everyone "cheats" even back in the day people would use whatever tool available to make good looking sprites. There is no honor system in "pixel art" which makes indiepixelshitz even more of a crime.
bf35ce No.14627249
>>14626843
I don't think the pixel count is as important as the art style. Pick one you're confident that you can that make good looking sprites. As long as all pixels maintain the same size and don't rotate, it won't look like trash to anyone.
>>14626982
This tool actually looks pretty interesting for backgrounds and random scenario objects. Or simply just to get references to draw an actual sprite based on its results.
>>14626874
You're giving me PTSD from the last roguelike thread.
6ff14c No.14627280
>>14627240
By cheating I was literally referring to downscaling with a specified program, not flat out ripping character bases (usually that shit one with the 50/50 head body that looks anime with the 2/3 pupil pixel eyes) and other props, changing a few pixels on the nose, stretching the head and calling it my own. God I fucking hate that RPGmaker-tier shite.
>>14627249
I know, see >>14627179
218f6d No.14627310
>>14627179
>that gif
I'd recognize those glorious Neo Geo sprites anywhere, anon. Excellent tastes.
6ff14c No.14627321
>>14627310
damn fucking straight, a fellow patrician I see
ff0a24 No.14627393
>>14626843
Like what >>14626897 says. Pick a graphics architecture and hold your self to it. Alternately invent your own, as if it were a real old console or home computer, and then stick to that.
Consistency is the most important thing.
>>14626897
>Now you can play around with that, but generally it's better to consider that lower resolutions are usually for NES-style games, and on the NES you could only have around four colors per sprite (not counting black).
It's also important to consider that what we think of as a sprite isn't necessarily what the processor considered a sprite.
For example Mega Man looks like a single sprite but he's actually five. Four for the body (which is typical for the NES due to hardware limits) and a fifth additional one for the face which lets you get past the 4 color limit.
Another way to "cheat" the 4 color limit is to not waste a color on an outline for your sprite like in Adventure Island.
ff0a24 No.14627404
>>14627393
I think I may have divided Mega Man up a little incorrectly but you get the jist.
136323 No.14627405
>>14627280
Yes and I was referring to the fact that people would scan art into software like Deluxe Paint II and downscale it to make it into a sprite. People would cut corners all the time back in the day. I wasn't talking about ripping off others sprite sheets ether.
14b649 No.14627406
>>14626920
>Mine
They look like Touhou faces.
ff0a24 No.14627415
>>14627249
>As long as all pixels maintain the same size and don't rotate
This is also a very important thing to remember. There's a little bit of leeway with this if you're mimicking Mode 7 like effects but you have to learn the right way to use it. Even then don't over use it.
bf35ce No.14627421
>>14626897
>>14627393
I'm confused now…
If black isn't included in the color count then megaman didn't need to be cut into different sprites and Master Higgins could easily have a black outline.
b3c2cf No.14627432
>>14627421
Transparent counts as a color
bf35ce No.14627471
>>14627432
Master Higgins' sprites there have 5 different colors, then.
ff0a24 No.14627534
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>14627471
Are you sure? Look again. Remember he isn't 1 sprite but at least 4.
Vid related.
3022f9 No.14627545
Smaller is likely going to be less time consuming, though even 16x16 sprites can take a lot of planning, will likely have many tweaks and revisions, etc. Anything can look good if the artist gives a shit, anything can look bad if they don't. Nuclear Throne is 16x16 for character sprites and most enemy sprites but looks great.
d5873c No.14627561
bf35ce No.14627563
>>14627534
Ah, I see.
6:24 of the video made me visualize it better.
d2fe17 No.14627581
>>14626843
What ever scale works at 480p
592bcb No.14627738
>>14627406
I don't think it's his, but I think they look cute.
000000 No.14627766
>sprites
You could do that yourself easy. It's basically geocities era shit.
b98410 No.14627777
>>14626843
Why didn't you ever finish Noaika? The first stage was basically done.
fe10c7 No.14627780
9fb0e6 No.14627947
Just use actual art in SVG
We have technology you invalid caveman
9fb0e6 No.14627953
>>14626941
>too low resolution to make out any character details
There's also NOT PREDRAFTING YOUR FUCKING CHARACTER MODEL SHEETS BEFORE MAKING SPRITES
6113ac No.14628124
>>14626897
>>14627393
I guess my retro system is gonna be a mother fucking MSX2+ series
5fce6c No.14628189
>>14626897
Fuck the old limitations. That's just a stupid thing to reproduce.
136323 No.14628212
have you ever shit pixels?
ae5f83 No.14628222
>>14628212
>>14628215
It's really unreasonable to spend that much time on backgrounds and big sprites unless you're doing a fighting game though.
b13420 No.14628236
>>14626897
>snes sprites
>widely considered to be the best
by who? Saturn and neogeo were objectively the best.
6113ac No.14628246
>>14628222
your just changing pixel states to make the image look animated right?
92acae No.14628286
>>14627406
Well that's not good because Touhou is fucking gay.
a81f57 No.14628377
>>14628358
sorry to disappoint.
565899 No.14628829
>>14627435
Never seen these before. Got any more?
83fff9 No.14628901
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14628189
It isn't, though. Firstly it's a great way to improve your art skills by doing more with less, secondly it gives you great knowledge of how pixel art should look and allows you to appreciate old games even more. Finally there are strengths to the medium - certain things that can only be done with pixels that can't really be replicated anywhere else.
fbe3bd No.14629617
>>14628189
Limitations are important in art in general, but specifically in pixel art.
Pixelshit throws limitations out the windows and just does whatever size and color amount they want and they end up with something that just looks like a mess.
It takes a good bit of artistic skill to pick up something like a limited palette and limited size and make them work. Which forces people to get creative since you got to make more with less so you'll do shit like leaving empty space so a background can give the sprite a color or get good at using optical illusions to make it look like more colors are in use.
ff0a24 No.14630290
>>14628222
>It's really unreasonable to spend that much time on backgrounds
LoM doesn't even have pixel art backgrounds. I'm pretty sure it's just scanned and rastered drawings.
7abb2d No.14630819