/v/ - Video Games

Just because you like snorting shit up your nose doesn't mean you need to justify it with our opinions, it just means you snort shit either way

>>14610111

To be honest I mostly think that the game's enemies are not very complicit to its combat design.

They liefted enemy behavior from Bloodborne with it's quickness and near suicidal behavior to jump at you at every know opportunity, but combined it with the actual slower paced gameplay from Dark Souls 1 with the offset of those special moves reminiscent of trick weapons.

It either made the enemies retarded or frustrating with no in-between depending on your set and it made Dark Souls 3 feel phoned in as a mix of the best of Bloodborne and Dark Souls 1 with nothing to properly meld them together.

>>14610064

I can't really comment on the multiplayer.

I play the game for the boss fights and the lore, because I have story autism.

>>14610064

if you already have a strong and informed opinion on the game, why do you need ours? I could understand if you wanted to discuss finer points or builds and strategies but come on

>>14610448

Wrong, DS2 is better and has more viable builds.

>>14610460

Quality > Quantity

>soulsborne

who even came up with this shitty meme phrase?

I've never tried playing coop but pvp is just about the least fun thing to do in the game most of the time. The people who do it are either gankers or metafag to the max and as an amateur I just can't deal with it especially because I only use low tier builds. I mean my last playthrough was UGS + Faith and pvp was an absolute nightmare. Gankers are especially bad this late into the game's life because you can get matched with a single group a couple times in a row.

In comparison to the other games in the series the pvp feels the least flexible. Overall I prefer single player for all of them anyway.

>online specifically

there are lots of things I do not like about ds3 in this regard but I will focus on a couple

>they removed any real scource of non-scaling damage that previous installments had for fear of twinks but ruined it with password summoning

>OP bullshit not tied to levels still exists and is maybe even worse but it isnt on the damage stat so its okay lol

fuck this

what I like is invading into a party of 3, no other game in the series gives me an experience like this

since they snapped a finger, I will eventually have reinforcements, since there is three of them they will eventually actually do the level instead of sit at the bonfire, since honor is mostly gone it wont just be duels over and over again, since invaders can heal I dont have to be hellaciously careful to not get hit even a single time like in ds1

all these add up to a series of small engagements where I use every possible advantage I have that I can carry with me and scroung from the level itself, while the player plays through the game in a party of 4, I actually feel like part of the level and like a mastermind controlling the party, and like a viet kong, and like a miniboss all at the same time and its fucking awesome

>>14610483

Do you prefer soulslike?

>>14610506

They are basically action RPGs right? or maybe something like Adventre games.

It is a sub-genre.

You can't just call it ARPG and expect people to instantly realize you're not talking about diablo clone or monhun clone or zelda clone or something like enclave or dark messiah.

>>14610517

diablo isnt an arpg

>>14610512

Yeah, just your typical ARPG.

>>14610517

>You can't just call it ARPG and expect people to instantly realize you're not talking about diablo clone or monhun clone or zelda clone or something like enclave or dark messiah

That's bullshit though. This game is an ARPG in the same way that bethesda's elder scrolls and fallout are ARPGs. You have stats, but primarily use some variation of real time combat to kill enemies, whether it's swinging swords, casting spells, or shooting a variety of firearms. If it's tied to a stat, and it involves some degree of player skill, then it's an ARPG.

If you want to get right down to it, these games are like 3D Castlevania or Zelda style games.

>>14610531

They are just as different from TES as they are from zeldas.

>>14610526

nothing about it makes it an action game

it has click to move and miss chances

>>14610540

>running out of enemy's fireball trajectory makes it actually fly past you and not hit

>not action

>>14610536

Nah.

>3D Zelda

>sword and board

>"Z-targeting", focus your camera so it pivots around an enemy

>parrying

>different weapon types with different attacks (i.e. horizontal or vertical sword swings)

>dungeons

>boss monsters

>variety of enemy types

>currency with which to buy consumables

>various magic spells

The only thing missing is the stats and character customization, but even Zelda has some manifestation of that. For instance, Link typically starts out with 3 hearts, and as you collect pieces and defeat bosses, you gain more hearts, which means you can last longer in combat. It's a simplistic abstraction, but abstraction nevertheless, that can be applied in the same manner to your character in Dark Souls.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the concept of difficulty, but let's not pretend that this game is exceptionally difficult. Your character dies easily, and you get punished hard for simple mistakes, so the player is encouraged at every turn to be careful with his time, execution and resources.

>>14610565

come to think of it, I was talking about how ds3 only lets you carry a certain amount of a consumable on your person and way more at the bonfire, and about estus in all of them, and I called it a "zelda bomb pouch" system

>>14610565

In zelda you have like 1 or 2 weapon movesets and no stats other than health.

Not to mention stamina and level design.

If you want to over generalize like that

>you kill enemies so it's an action game

>all games with enemies are action games

>>14610603

In Dark Souls, you have a handful of weapon types. They all fit into a certain scheme (i.e. spear type, long sword type, hammer type, great sword type, etc), and they typically share movesets among them but with some unique exceptions (i.e. standard rapier shares the same moveset with ricard's rapier, but they have different R2s and they have slightly different base damage stats and scaling). This is not something that is unique to Dark Souls.

Stamina management, like any other type of resource management, is not unique to Dark Souls. I am not generalizing. I am pointing out that these games are not so distinct from other ARPGs that they deserve to be given their own genre.

>b-but souls are both your experience AND currency!

So what? How does this distinguish these items from other items that you need to manage in any other game?

>b-but you can die and lose all your progress!

Plenty of games have done this before. Hell, this is a cornerstone of arcade games.

>b-but the lore!

Most games typically have some manner of story that is being told, and Dark Souls is no different. It's just that Dark Souls has a unique atmosphere, but even this has taken from other inspirations (i.e. Berserk, gothic architecture, high fantasy tropes, etc)

>level design!

Dark Souls 1 had Metroid and Castlevania style levels that loop back into themselves, and it was great. Since then, the games have become much less unique in this regard. They're linear and self contained levels that have some shortcuts placed within them, but they don't all interconnect anymore.

I guess it'd be easier for me to just ask you what you think Dark Souls does different that any other game hasn't done before, and how does this justify the declaration that these games fit into their own unique sub-genre?

>>14610448

Yeah, because making so a shitty dagger can stagger a dude wearing heavy armor is totally fair and logical.

>>14610111

Because instead of learning of the mistakes that DS2 commited, they doubled down on it. And like >>14610139 pandered to the bloodborne fags with the edgy combat.

Cool thing about DS was that everything had weight, and it showed, but it was balanced.

As like the faggot i replied before: Going heavy armor would mean you are slow, but also means you don't get staggered.

It was balanced.

But on here they took the fashion souls approach, and there's almost no difference between wearing a tunic and a steelplate armor.

That shit is ridiculous.

>>14610659

>stab dude between armor plates

>dude writhes in pain

Pretty logical to me

>>14610657

Stamina management as a concept is not unique, but how it works mechanically is.

>>14610674

>Stop fire-magic attacks with wooden shield

>It doesn't get set on fire

C'mon faggot, i also know how to cherrypick, pretty sure you're better than that

>>14610715

You still get fire damage through that shield, and more than through some steel shield or magic shield.

Are we discussing the lack of "burning" status effect in souls games now? I mean DS3 added frozen status, or whatever it was called, it would kinda be logical to add burning, electrified and other elemental damage tbh.

>>14610733

>and other elemental statuses tbh

selffix

>>14610733

Nevermind that i suck cocks, i misread your post.

>>14610733

When I played Dark Souls the first time I thought lightning damage would also add more stunlock for some reason, mostly because everyone and their mother were always using a lightning weapon, with Dark Souls 3 I felt cheated when I wanted to use chaos weapons on demons (since black knight gear had innate chaos and was effective on demons), interestingly enough holy damage was never a thing, just the "auxiliary" thing that was never used outside of certain skeletons.

>>14610758

There is mana bar in Demon's Souls and DS3.

>>14610759

Maybe devs thought that existing elemental damage types and status effect are already numerous enough for players to fuck around and decided to not go full autism with them.

>>14610774

>There is mana bar in Demon's Souls and DS3

Yes, I know, but we were talking about the stamina bar. You said that it's unique in how it functions in Dark Souls, and I asked you to clarify that statement.

>>14610774

I just wish there was a frostbite resin for non casters or people who wouldn't be investing in stuff like the irithryll straight sword.

DS3 is bad, I pirated DS3 and couldn't be bothered to finish it. You can really tell they're burnt out on the series.

>>14610800

It's uniqueness comes from how fast it regenerates and how it is spent on EVERYTHING that isn't walking.

>>14610807

I think it's you who is burnt out on the series.

Coop in Dark Souls is cancer. PvP in Dark Souls is cancer.

Multiplayer should be coincidental, no deliberate. DS is about being alone in a hostile world.

>>14610460

this, DS3 has the least complex meta of any of the games.

faster = better.

DS2 is still shit, but its not DS3.

>>14610810

So, you think that's enough of a difference to imply that Dark Souls should be considered its own unique genre of games?

>Dark Souls stamina bar

>jumping

>sprinting

>blocking

>attacking

>casting spells

>Skyrim stamina bar

>sprinting

>blocking

>attacking

>Dragon's Dogma stamina bar

>sprinting

>climbing

>attacking

>casting spells

etc.

>>14610810

>It's uniqueness comes from how fast it regenerates and how it is spent on EVERYTHING that isn't walking.

that's not unique, that's overpowered.

>>14610774

>Maybe devs thought that existing elemental damage types and status effect are already numerous enough for players to fuck around and decided to not go full autism with them.

or lightning is holy and you're talking out of your ass since they added frost in DS3.

>>14610861

>It's not just me who thinks that, majority of people who actually love and play soulsbornes think that

argumentum ad populum.

>>14610872

How do you think genre terms are made?

>>14610861

These terms are retarded. They're ebonics. Ebonics are shit because they destroy proper language. You can use them all you like. I mean, I can't stop you, but I must point out that these terms are based on nothing more than memes, because when you observe these games at their core, you will find that they are not so unique that they can be divorced from ARPG as an umbrella term, or in the case of "Metroidvanias", 2D non-linear platformers. Yes, Metroid, Castlevania, and Dark Souls are unique games, and the simple fact that they can comfortably fit into existing genres does not make them any less unique.

Suggesting that "soulsborne" is a sub-genre is like trying to draw the difference between Mario Kart and Need For Speed by saying that because Mario Kart features cartoon mascots and wacky items that it isn't a racing game but instead a "party racer". That's stupid.

>>14610888

>How do you think genre terms are made?

ARPG, that's how.

"soulslike" is a sub-genre, retard, if its even that considering that there no fully established style between demon's souls to bloodborne, since bloodborne is more similar to DMC and bayonetta then it is to demon's souls.

>>14610888

Autistic idiots slapfight about it until one becomes a meme.

>>14610941

I understand what he's saying but he's fucking wrong.

>>14610941

>This one is new. Please go into deeper details on how can you possibly think that.

the style of movement(and thus attacks aswell) the PC has has changed radically, allowing multi-angle dodge-attacks with some weapons, furthermore the addition of "counter-shots" allows one to play far more aggressively allowing you to control your enemy from range will moving in to attack.

>>14610985

the gating doesn't matter when it has no effect, see DS3 and blooborne once you complete eileen's questline.

>>14610953

None of what you said relates to DMC

DMC is like this

>attacking is basic but there are combo inputs for mixing up what the character is doing, pressing the button a different number of times does different things and such

>guns are for when the enemy is in the air, and if you can manage it you power up the guns while attacking with your melee option

>the enemies aren't just sandbags sometimes and will actually attack you and block your attacks to counter in some instances

>Some enemies actually have wait periods where you are on the defensive

>switching between weapons is slow, meant to change your options when you are fighting a boss or a series of enemies of different brands, not to continue a combo

>dodging and jumping are meant to position yourself away or around enemies to get out of their hitrange and then attack them back into yours

>guns are also just used for extending a combo and some enemies only take gun damage, it isn't otherwise very useful; killing enemies with guns is slower when they take melee attacks standard

Now bloodborne is like this

>combos are more basic, there is one set combo and you just mash through it every time

>every button does its own thing

>enemies after the first area stop taking your shit and won't stagger that easily

>most of them just have super armor and will attack you if you're playing too aggressively without also dodging

>the point is not to combo, but to diminish the enemy health as quickly and effectively as possible

>ranged options are just extended parries or for pure damage

>if you're using it for damage then that effectively becomes your melee equivalent, such as with arcane, which expressly diminishes your melee attack power in exchange for casting level 200 interstellar ballistic missiles

>there's a stamina bar that is used up pretty fast and is there to stop you from running at an enemy and just smacking them until they die; you need to plan around their attacks and your own limitations to succeed

>weapons have two forms most of the time for quick switching to allow for more inputs to extend the basic combos

DMC is really nothing like Bloodborne. The only similarity is they have guns and swords. I can get that in DMC 3 and 4 the weapon switching is much faster to allow for combo extension, but the fact that the two of them have quick weapon swaps is reaching.

>>14610064

Got boring fast. I stuck around for maybe a few more hours to pvp after beating the game before getting bored.

>>14610657

>I am not generalizing. I am pointing out that these games are not so distinct from other ARPGs that they deserve to be given their own genre.

People have been coming up with genre names as well as subsequently shitting all over them since the start of time. They're just terms used to roughly group together things that have similar qualities.

When people invent a new term, then that basically means they feel like it doesn't properly fit in any of the existing genres. This doesn't mean it does anything new, it might just be that it's a combination of genres that makes it hard to place.

For an example, look at >>14610526 and >>14610520. Some people consider diablo a hack and slash, others consider devil may cry a hack and slash. Dark Souls sits a little bit in the middle of those two; it has action elements like DmC, but also more RPG elements like Diablo. But in the end, calling all of them a hack and slash is a complete waste of time since they're very different games.

>>14610064

Haven't played Bloodborne but DS3 is the worst of the entire series otherwise. DS3 is a flanderisation of the roll/attack mechanics to the point it becomes a two button combat system barely above asscreed, the removal of any kind or resource management like stamina or poise reduces the game to a banal, repetitive spam fest with more forgiving iframes than most children's action games.

>>14611083

Can we just not compare games that aren't completely similar so as not to confuse other people when describing them? Saying X-like or Y-lite is dumb, just describe the elements of a game.

>Dark souls is a 3rd person RPG

and if you want to add to that you just add extra elements, like

>with substantial build variety

I just described in less than ten words all three of the dark souls games very generally.

Genres as a definition for a set of games are useless for this medium because of the nature of games; when you call a book a thriller novel or a movie an action-adventure movie then you can get an idea of what might happen since those two mediums are static; when you watch or read it, it's the same every single time. Games and the experiences we have with them are extremely active; while the bones of the experience can be linear, the majority of the experience is your own personal show. You see yourself getting better or improving on your techniques, and the way you play can actively change over time, making the term "Action" become meaningless because the action comes from your own sense of development, and the term "Adventure" can imply that there is some sort of exploration to be had, regardless of if there is any.

Rogue-like is a dumb term because I don't think anyone has played rogue who still uses the term, and even if they have, the actual definition is "procedurally generated, single-life topdown/side-scrolling shmup." You could even shorten the fucking term to single life shooter, since that's the main draw of those games.

Metroidvania is another one that pisses me off because metroid was the first one to do the whole "Exploration and upgrade" thing and is still the most popular version of it despite the castlevania games that have taken the concept and used it to revive the series. It's like calling things zelda-souls because in zelda 2 you start all the way at the beginning of a temple when you die, and dark souls does something kinda like that I guess.

/rant

>>14610064

Has probably the worst pvp of the series, online coop has a good system that makes it easy to use and play with friends no matter your progress, no complaints for the coop.

I might just get darksouls remaster just for the online play

>>14611161

What happened to the term

Adventure Game

with all its subcategories

Action Adventure Game

Point and Click Adventure Game (this somehow got reduced to point and click and dumbed down to hidden object games)

why has RPG taken over, even though RPG now only seems to be shorthand for "with RPG elements"?

I just beat Pontiff and holy fuck the area just after his bonfire is a fucking pvp mess. I can easily say I get my ass handed to me by people invading with huge weapons with hit-boxes that extend well beyond the visual geometry. Bonus if they pop a pine resin and basically 1 hit me.

This is why arcades died. These faggots can't handle actual 1v1 in a balanced game. They beef up and invade newbs like me and say git gud. Like they actually have any skill. I get the feeling they are all twinked characters because I haven't even seen most of the gear these niggerfaggots use.

Git gud doesn't mean go to the end of the game then go back to the middle and beat the shit out of people with shit gear and low SL.

>>14611218

PS) Watching a faggot swing a huge weapon and then rolly-polly infinite times in a row is extra gay. The attacks need cost like 5x more fatigue so at most they could get 2 rolls then die.

>>14611175

when every game became an adventure game

Reminder to watch Matthewmatosis's Lost Soul Arts video.

>>14610458

general discussion is interesting, but if you want sure.

I'm part of a PvP club and we've been experimenting with what is and isn't able to go toe to toe with the "meta" of 120 SL Lothric knight sword quality and we've found that the game is quite balanced when you're playing on low ping connections, to the point of resembling an actual fighting game.

we've all puked at the sight of PvP backstabbing guides in DaS1, and laughed at the sight of anyone who claims the series of backstabbing glitches add depth to the game, but that game too had great PvP

>>14611064

pre or post DLC weapons?

>>14611122

>the removal of any kind or resource management like stamina or poise

stamina hasn't been changed

poise works much better as hyper armor but honestly it should apply to all weapons rather than just heavy ones.

>>14611151

dark souls remaster is shaping up to be a massive ball of nothing, I'd rather stay on DaS1 and not split the community AGAIN.

Majora's Mask is better than Dark Souls.

>>14611725

Tetris is better than both.

but seriously I play Dark Souls for the technical and difficult combat, and Zelda for the adventure aspects, the only aspect where they are directly comparable is tone and lore, and at that point I'd go Zelda too, mostly because Zelda had to work it's dark and subtle history into a children's game and because of this it wasn't all miserable darkness all the way though. Except for Patches, fuck Patches but he was completely necessary.

>>14611226

big weapons are quadruple shit in ds3 because nobody gets hit by them you actually really do need to get good

also at pontiff they are probably not twinked thats a PVP zone at every level

>>14612111

but they are not safe while doing it at all you are actually retarded

>co- op uses them

YES the main reason they are shit is mitigated in co-op, not only because you have a dude covering you but because the AI on the monsters will actually stand there and get hit

>infinitely rolls

if their rolling is that predictable then the rollcatch should be easy, especially if they give you so many chances

I can't believe I was able to cheese Gael, fucking Midir will give me a headache, looks like I will have to kill him last.

>>14612135

>but they are not safe while doing it at all you are actually retarded

yes i'm retarded for exploiting the weaknesses of invaders being cheesers that get bored and quitting after 10 mins of not being able to kill me

dob jej

>>14612623

I have not faced many invaders but the Rose of Ariandel has been quite useful, they want to bait a parry but you can't parry that thing, there is no poise so I stun lock them a few times, plus, they bleed.

How to make a cute paladin girl in DaS3

>>14612135

>but they are not safe while doing it at all you are actually retarded

>wide attack that has a hitbox that goes all around their front and sides

>rolling in means you have to roll back because he will swing twice and you can't trade on a UGS

>the only method is to try and use spacing to your advantage, roll behind them, and try getting quick swipes in

It's not safe in the sense that they have to trade, but that trade is meaningless because the UGS player outdamages the enemy.

>>14611725

>father's mask

>not mother's

look at this meme master who doesn't know father's mask memes come from before the massive nerf the father's mask took.

>>14612969

its not safe as in you can hit them without being hit, not as in they lose a trade

>>14613135

>you can hit them without being hit

confirmed never playing the game.

>>14610139

That's not true. The speed was the same as Bloodborne, they took nothing from DS aside from the shields. Also you shouldn't sage if you're actually posting something relevant to the thread. This isn't a Reddit downvote.

>>14610448

It's perfectly fine to dislike it for the lack of poise. It's wrong to say it's bad for the lack of poise though.

>>14613196

Biggest problem of DaS3 is how fucking broken and nonsensical it can be at times.

>>14611695

Before, I was a caster and didn't bother to change my build, so no wonder it sucked.

>>14613203

What exactly is broken and nonsensical?

>>14613243

I was replying to a post that was talking about the enemies and had nothing to do with PvP, yet you give me a reply about PvP. The half a brain bit was pure projection on your part.

>>14613297

I'm specifically asking because of the words you used. "Broken" level design has nothing to do with frustrating level design. I do see your point there, but it has nothing to do with anything being broken. Same with your complaint about the covenants, upgrade systems and bosses. Casualized, maybe, but not broken.

And nothing you mentioned was nonsensical.

Don't just throw buzzwords around if you can't back them up.

I think some anons who bitch about the gameplay, speed, hitboxes, mook placement or hosts' resummons during invasions need to git gud

>>14610460

I was about to say you’re wrong, but I honestly had the most fun with DS2’s build variety than any of the other games

>>14610465

t. retard.

>>14611711

There are other reasons why i hope Dark souls remaster is good.

Mostly because the hassle of installing dsfix with a working controller on wine is fucking retarded.

I'd rather play DaS1 but the constant shit I'm getting from their retarded port it's a really shitty port is annoying the fuck out of me.

>>14624976

>it's actually not a matter of hitboxes, which are actually pretty on point, it's the fact that player desync compensates

lag and desyncs aren't always immediately obvious to me (unless it's the ice-skating huezilians)

>>14629787

the reason most people never notice is because achieving zero-desync pvp is impossible unless you're lan networking like the vid shows. even the best connections will be out of sync, part of learning the game is knowing how to compensate. go find some hostile human npcs to fuck with and try to dodge/parry as a point of reference to see how responsive pvp 'should' be.

>>14630103

anyway to get solid connection like that all the time? I fucking hate the lag in this game

>>14610064

The only issues I have with the online is that chugging estus is way too forgiving and it's missing interaction like pulling levers as an invader, like in the catacombs in DaS1. Some balance changes like force being useless is also unfortunate, but overall it's pretty solid. I liked the balancing work they did over time.

Also the anons saying DaS2 has the best build variety have to go back to plebbit. That game's balance is busted, much like the rest of the game.

>>14612573

Stick to hitting Midir's head, don't try to go under him.

>>14636561

>doubles down on this shit

I don't like the game =/= broken. Use the proper words you dumb fuck. A broken game isn't a game with streamlined upgrade mechanics. That's fucking retarded.

>>14610064

I miss the original Dark Souls/Demon Souls community.

>>14640948

The PC port is what killed it.

>>14643933

I unironically agree. It brought in the LOLSOHARD crowd despite the fact the PC version had heavily toned down difficulty.

>>14610064

More players and less of a hassle to play online which is nice. Hated almost everything else about it. It felt like it was really torn between going for a BB or DS style, so it ends up as this abomination that does neither one all that well.

>>14621389

Shame soul memory was such a retarded feature.

>>14646784

Fun fact: google searches for 'artificial difficulty' spiked that day and most of the mustards on half /v/ were begging for a trainer to beat taurus demon.

>>14647025

Soy Memory was great, it allowed for some cuhrazy matches around level 400 where everyone is on equal ground and is trying out wacky builds.

Metafags are cancer.

>>14610064

stop playing bad games

>>14610064

>give me your opinions on the online, the coop and the PvP, personally me and my friends have a blast every time we open this goddamn game.

Best in the series by far.

>>14646784

>the PC version had heavily toned down difficulty.

The fuck you talking about nigger?