c83dd8 No.14562844
Sega is trying to kill sonic.
This theory i came to after i analyzed the market changes in SEGA's market over past years. Almost every product SEGA releases is top notch in quality and heavily staffed to produce best polished content. Miku, Fantasy Zone, Initial D Arcade, Daytona, Yakuza, Puyo Puyo - all high quality polished products for their fans. Why sonic isn't?
To answer this question, i must ask you, doesn't Sega Games Co., Ltd. became more of a big publishing company, rather than a developer? Currently they exist almost like a company that could handle making their own console, even if they don't. Don't you think Sega is getting bad views on itself because of how unprofitable Sonic became as a mascot? Sonic as a mascot of sega and their main video game series becomes less and less known, and more associated with autistic furries rather with serious video gaming industry. Guess who also killed their "childish" franchises that were maskots of console gaming back in the day? Sony. Sony also killed Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon after they started producing trashy games, and they lowered quality staff in production of those games to slowly kill franchises that stuck with this company.
Sega foreseen that Sonic in the future won't be profitable, so they pay less for less qualified stuff to reduce the losses on this franchise.
Yes, Sonic is going Crash/Spyro route and you can't stop it. There will be few remakes and remasters like Sonic Mania here and there (sonic mania wasn't planned as stand alone game in the begging, hence the rehashed levels), and you are only going to see games like Sonic Boom and Sonic Forces in the future because sega is dumping sonic into the mud and eventually just ignore Sonic Team for everything except Phantasy Star series, for which they will re-brand Sonic team into Phantasy Team or something like that.
And it will be the death of Sonic. There will be no Sonic Adventure 3, or it will be - but understaffed underpaid trash that exists only to spew on sonic's name.
41cf28 No.14562846
Because sonic is a hand me down that no one in the company has any real affection for. It's like mid 2000s Mario.
de7704 No.14562880
I wouldn't miss it tbh.
Nowadays SEGA is my premier RTS publisher.
74bc62 No.14562882
OP is a retarded and I'm going to flush his entire theory down the toilet: most sonic fans are cows.
kill yourself and delete your thread and your stupid fucking theory.
262e62 No.14562954
>>14562844
Sorry to inform the OP but as shit as Sonic Forces was it sold a shit ton of copies because of original character do not steal.
Sonic Forces has de-throned Champions Online as the Fur Affinity game of choice.
c83dd8 No.14562977
>>14562882
>>14562954
Well shit. Sonic thread it is then.
ce1312 No.14562983
Why the hell is Sonic even popular after Sega CD? He was always a little light design-wise. In 16bit he was valuable as a protag because he brought speed his competitors lacked. But moving forward this became less valuable since new games/genres with heroes with more interesting movesets than running loops were born. This coupled with Sonic's uninteresting appearance/world/lore makes every game fall short of practical everything comparable on the market. So how in the hell did Sonic become this autistic black hole that it is today and why is it still limping on all these years? Let the poor little guy go. He deserves to be back in the romlists with his friends (coolspot and such, not the autism force or whatever blight has spawned since) and not shitting himself on modern systems for Sega's coffers.
262e62 No.14562990
>>14562977
I get where your coming from but Sega knows the market for Sonic these days and that market is a bunch of dog fuckers.
74bc62 No.14563061
>>14562990
they're also aware there's a market of older fans that just want 2d sonic.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-11-02-sonic-mania-success-makes-up-for-digital-shortfalls-in-sega-financials
also interesting to see that denuvo literally doesn't hurt sales
cd046f No.14563100
I don't give a fuck about autistic furshit, but I can tell you for a fact that Sega tries its hardest to kill PSO2.
Over the past, what, couple of years it was piling shittier and shittier updates to slowly rot the game and segregate players.
People blame some mythical "new director", but from what I know Yuya Kimura was at the helm from day one and only had guest co-designer for Ep3, which admittedly was the best episode by far, after which game took mindblowing nosedive.
41cf28 No.14563265
>>14563061
>interesting to see that denuvo literally doesn't hurt sales
That makes sense though. By the time a person even understands what denuvo does, they're likely already balls deep in piracy.
5dbbca No.14563270
>>14562844
I think you're confusing malicious behavior with raw stupidity.
Sega for years have made extremely bad decisions that are legendary in how blatantly stupid it is. This is usually just after they make an incredibly smart one. Look at how they treated mania and how they treat forces. It's like a weird balancing act they have when it comes to videogames in general. It just feels like a sonic only thing because he's a flagship mascot character.
>>14562983
Anyone who isn't a complete tard knows that Sonic has the potential to be a proper competitor in the modern era. It's just the people in charge don't know what the fuck he's supposed to be and in turn created a kaleidoscope of a fractured fanbase on top of that.
74bc62 No.14563303
>>14563265
nah, vast majority of the audience just buys it and doesn't give a fuck
c0a5f3 No.14563370
Sega hasn't understood what made Sonic good since SoJ won the Sega civil war in the 90s. Sonic has always represented SoJ's failures in decision making and their retarded nip pride overriding any notion that they were wrong.
c12a8e No.14563460
>>14563100
Ep 3 is the conclusion of a serious saga with a long time to develop, of course it was good
From ep 4 to 5 it feels that they are not sure of how to continue
4 is well infamous to say the least awkwardly done and maybe rushed, they tried to use the mother trinity setup but -Failed-
The end of the phantom mother emergency quest shows the Photon Eraser being undone, when in the story is just blue darkers
Its either money or the director, but the commercials and the fact that many autists are buying clothes shows that it should not be the case
For me ep5 shows this more strongly, with xiao new "appeal" and the general finalfantasy world kind of setting
I guess they hired staff form square enix
cb8d00 No.14563469
>>14562844
>This theory…
Post some actual fucking evidence, with archives and infographs.
9205b0 No.14563485
>>14562844
The actual problem is that they lost all their talanted sonic devs to nintendo
5dbf03 No.14563615
>>14563061
>>14563265
>>14563303
Did you guys forget that Mania was on consoles as well?
According to Retro, Mania did very well on Nintendo's E-Shop: //forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=35709&view=findpost&p=921809
You may look earlier in the thread to see Mania's position in the charts.We just don't have any exact sales figures for either Mania or Forces except on PC:
Apparently Forces was abysmal on Steam thanks to poor optimization,Denuvo, and the fact that it wasn't that great of a game. And if you remember, Sega did an asshole move with enticing people to pre-order Sonic Mania by throwing in a free copy of Sonic 1 (which wasn't even StealthTax's enhanced port) so if they fell for the bait, they were unable to refund the game due to the 2 week time limit which was the duration of the delay:
http://steamspy.com/app/584400
http://steamspy.com/app/637100
I remember the review bombing for Mania on Steam when people realized what had happened, and so that ill-will came down on Forces' PC port hard. If Sega isn't just pretending that the game sold well, it was because of console fags saving their dumb asses.
316824 No.14563752
>>14563061
Nah it hurt sales pretty badly, especially with all the review bombing, refunds and people just buying it on consoles instead
a81bf0 No.14563763
>>14562844
>Yes, Sonic is going Crash/Spyro route and you can't stop it. There will be few remakes and remasters like Sonic Mania here and there (sonic mania wasn't planned as stand alone game in the begging, hence the rehashed levels)
Man, what is with this sudden influx of retarded 9 year olds?
6fb232 No.14563867
>>14562983
the franchise has
>appealing characters, mostly because of adventure 1+2 and sonic X
>good music
>one of the most recognized brand names in the entire video game industry
>a huge and EXTREMELY dedicated fanbase, largely thanks to adventure 1+2 and sonic X
>good 2D gameplay
>a high potential for amazing 3D gofast gameplay if only they'd actually do it right for once
>chao gardens in adventure 1+2, and the potential to have them in later games
>the potential for a robotnik RTS game
>a few more-than-decent cartoons and a pretty good animu
thats why its still popular
>>14563061
maybe if it wasn't a sonic game or put in there in the scummy manner that it was(no refunds), it would've hurt the PC sales much, much more
>>14562844
the REAL reason why sonic games have been so bad after heroes is because they don't HAVE to make it good to sell it anymore; as long as its better than '06 and rise of lyric, then it'll be good enough to make $$$
2cf275 No.14564186
I find it hard to believe that people still invest their hard earned money or their mummie's or daddie's credit card to keep funding Sonic.
Sonic Mania was alright but let's not pretend that the whole franchise has been trash since Sonic Adventure 2.
d23794 No.14564344
Nah, Sonic Team just can't work into 3D. ArcSys had the same issue with Guilty Gear 2.
3a5628 No.14564388
>>14564186
You're right, the franchise hasn't been trash since adventure 1 and 2.
eb52c5 No.14564468
>>14562844
Nice fanfiction
225b12 No.14564517
Your fault for buying games in the first place.
Also your fault for getting so attached to a product and it's marketing ploys.
I played and owned the Sonic trilogy on Mega Drive. Then, Sega stopped making Sonic games the way that i like, so i stopped buying Sega's products completely.
Always stop giving money to the industry when companies don't attend to your every demand. Keep getting for free whatever good things that they produce here and there, and that is good enough.
Never support the video games industry, that sees their own customers as enemies, and when we retaliate, uses this as an excuse to attack us even more.
Pirate, don't fall for marketing, make normalfags abandon the notion of purchase little by little, and get whatever good it still produces. If everything ends, there are already good games to play for the rest of our lives.
>>14563061
It does.
It could have sol more if it had not denuvo.
And the shitstorm will prevent the same numbers to happen again. It will diminish the sales even more.
>>14563303
Nice try, denuvo shill.
The vast majority don't buy games with denuvo.
Those numbers are nothing impressive. They would be really large numbers if the game had not denuvo.
8bab7a No.14564573
>>14562844
The problem is that Sega don't know how to make a good Sonic game anymore. They've spend the greater part of 25 years now fucking around with the formula, and the games are mostly quite mediocre. In order for Sonic to go anywhere, it needs to happen in a 3D space, and it needs to have gameplay that 1) is fast paced and 2) doesn't revolve around some shitty gimmick.
Sonic Adventure 2 was, by all means, a terrible game. However, that is not to say that it doesn't have some redeeming qualities. The Sonic and Shadow levels are probably some of the best 3D Sonic levels ever created by Sega. Most 3D Sonic games that came after SA2 tried to vary this up, but ended up making things worse in one way or another.
All they have to do is make a good 3D Sonic game. Sonic, by himself, vs Dr. Robotnik. A series of SA2 style obstacle courses, but maybe with some extra attention to detail. Have an emphasis on platforming, less overall set-pieces, and better physics. Give Sonic abilities that are actually useful. Have boss battles that aren't insulting garbage. Don't go heavy on some retarded plot, just give us the opportunity to defeat Robotnik and use the Chaos Emeralds.
People will enjoy it if it's well made.
1c70aa No.14564574
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14563370
SoA is making Sega great again via Sonic Mania. Lets just hope that Sonic Mania Adventures keeps the train going. All the while Fark makes SoJ look bad by making a 3D Sonic game that actually looks fun.
b03de6 No.14564582
>>14563061
Because most people bought it on console you dumb faggot.
773ab9 No.14564678
>implying Yakuza/RGG isnt dying actually
07d742 No.14564701
Sonic died with MJ's career tbh
1b7b7d No.14564724
>>14564701
What does micheal jackson have to do with sonic?
fabe44 No.14564732
>>14563061
>also interesting to see that denuvo literally doesn't hurt sales
Yeah if you just ignore all the people who said they're not buying it because of Denuvo.
6ea9fb No.14564744
>>14564724
Aside from Sanic's shoes being based off MJ's and MJ composing most of Sanic 3's music?
5dbf03 No.14564750
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>14564724
Listen to Ice Cap Zone's music from the genesis version, then look up "Hard Times" by the Jetzons. MJ's former bandmates such as Brad Buxer are still credited in S3&K.
b03de6 No.14564754
>>14564744
That explains why Sonic's fanbase is full of sexual deviants then.
6ea9fb No.14564772
>>14564754
>believing Sony's disinfo
MJ was pure and innocent.
7984d9 No.14564782
I just want more 3d sonic games.
5dbf03 No.14564792
>>14564772
http://archive.is/eQg39
Yeah, I wish I had it on me at the moment, but Sony's emails revealed that they are (unsurprisingly) huge kikes.
c03956 No.14564860
>>14562846
>Because sonic is a hand me down that no one in the company has any real affection for. It's like mid 2000s Mario.
This
I remember reading an "off the record" article a few years back with a Sonic Team member who was disappointed in the treatment of the Nights sequel by upper managment - and he was basically telling horror stories about how Sonic is just the processed meat of Sega's game library. Nobody there has any passion for the project, because they never get a chance to flex their creative muscles - being stuck in a never ending hell of Sonic game development. Anything other than Sonic gets it's funding cut, development staff shafted, and ultimately either canceled or crippled in order to re-purpose it's mechanics into the standard Sonic formula. If you're lucky, and you've been there awhile, and you're there at the right time, and you know the right people - you might be able to work on a Phantasy Star title or a side project, but you'll be expected to pull double duty on Sonic. Most of the actual talent has long since fled, leaving only a handful of burned out soul-drained veterans who have too much time invested to just walk away - and a bunch of complete newbies who were suckered into working at Sega based on childhood nostalgia only to be caught in the meatgrinder that is Sonic development. Turnover on that front is rather high, as it quickly becomes painfully obvious that there is no light at the end of the tunnel - nor any chance to make any substantial changes to the Sonic formula in order to freshen the franchise up. It's a cash cow, and the autists buying it has saved Sega's ass enough times that they're scared to death of deviating from the formula and risk losing those autism bucks.
Sonic, and Sonic fans, are killing Sonic Team.
128838 No.14565023
>>14562844
you write like a streetshitter. did anyone ever tell you that?
c0a5f3 No.14565049
>>14564860
>>they're scared to death of deviating from the formula and risk losing those autism bucks.
>implying they haven't radically deviated many times
The Sonic formula isn't having tons of retarded unlikable characters thrown in, that was a deviation from the formula, as was everything post Genesis.
225b12 No.14565080
>>14564573
If it is 3D, it is shit.
Sonic is only good when in classic 2D from the Mega Drive days.
>>14564860
And don't forget the suicides.
004e8c No.14566273
>>14564860
>Anything other than Sonic gets it's funding cut, development staff shafted, and ultimately either canceled or crippled in order to re-purpose it's mechanics into the standard Sonic formula.
The prime example of which is Fifth Phantom Saga, the physics mechanics of which were re-purposed into Silver the Hedgehog, which is a shame, since the physics gameplay didn't look that bad in Fifth Phantom Saga, it could even sort of rival with Half-Life 2 on the console market.
d655fc No.14566287
They're also trying to kill of their pc development team.
There's a big reason they put denuvo in fucking EVERYTHING now
188c46 No.14566348
>>14566287
That was SoE's decision, though. Do you have any actual proof that they're trying to kill their own PC port development?
d655fc No.14566352
>>14566348
They updated their 6 year old ROM player just to enable steam DRM in it.
564a3c No.14566355
OP, your theory is fucking retarded. If SEGA wanted to kill Sonic they could just do it silently like Valve did with the Half-Life series and just stop making fucking games
188c46 No.14566364
>>14566352
That's not proof of anything besides them wanting to stick drm in something.
d655fc No.14566373
>>14566364
>Deliberately making basically abandoned software harder to legitimately use
>not trying to poison the well of pc development
In addition they tried to EULA powergrab all the rights to derivative software posted to the workshop. Including exclusive right to sell it.
188c46 No.14566388
>>14566373
But that could very well be just incompetent decision making from suits that are way out of touch or just greedy. If they wanted to kill their PC division, why, after a large drought of anything PC related, besides Sonic, would they start chugging out PC ports for older games like Vaquish and Bayonetta? Why would they bother making a completely new port of SA2 for PC? Why bother creating a whole virtual room for a glorified emulator? You're making conspiracy-theorist level leaps of logic, here. If they wanted to stop their own PC development, they would simply just stop making PC ports, not making more of them and putting more effort into them.
d655fc No.14566418
>>14566388
I don't think you accidentally release a system where everyone is encouraged to upload whatever mod and also include a claim you own all the rights to said mod if it's uploaded.
5dbf03 No.14567241
>>14564860
I recall Aaron Webber brushing it off before, though the way Iizuka allegedly smiled at the latest SXSW panel when someone asked about Billy Hatcher or the way he lit up over the prospect of another NiGHTS game leads me to believe that's not all sunshine and roses there, regardless:
//forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=37796&view=findpost&p=923496
http://archive.is/JyP4R
>>14563485
At first I was thinking they only lost a programmer and some artists until I remembered that his original designers save for Naka (from PROPE to Square Enix) are at Nintendo now, too:
http://archive.is/ktsnC
Reminds me that another programmer, mind and director behind Unleashed and the Hedgehog Engine (Yoshihisa Hashimoto) also left for Square Enix to finish FFXV's Luminous Engine until he left them, too.
004e8c No.14567628
>>14567241
Also, pretty much all level designers behind Colors/Unleashed/Generations are gone in Forces.
>Luminous Engine
Holy shit.
188c46 No.14567841
>>14566418
That's not at all what I said, and I failed to see how that's intentional internal sabotage. Every single point you've brought up is more easily explained by SEGA trying to make more money, by using drm to discourage piracy, and eula's to steal the rights of romhacks for themselves. Do you really think corporate businessmen only use drm to sabotage sales of their own products?
225b12 No.14568564
>>14567241
And the Luminous Studio is now directed by Tabata.
Any game made by them is dead on arrival.
ec49fb No.14568697
>>14564678
What is the title of the graph, you double nigger. Is this Japanese sales, Western sales, combined? Most of us here don’t read nip.
c03956 No.14568751
>>14567241
>I recall Aaron Webber brushing it off before
He was one of the old community managers, wasn't he? I seem to remember him doing a ton of damage control for Phantasy Star Universe - always promising that the team was hard at work providing content for updates - when in reality they weren't getting shit from SoJ and were months behind schedule. Eventually getting to the point where they were just stat-boosting generic weapons and using those for rewards to events that SoA was expected to host, but didn't get any data for. That guy lied through his teeth on daily basis for Sega, because that was his job.
If he brushed the matter off, I'd be prone to take that as an indictment.
5dbf03 No.14568809
>>14568751
It was in the now defunct Sega Forum where someone brought it up titled "the blog sega doesn't want you to read", with him sort of avoiding going into detail about by saying it wasn't before making a joke. Can't remember if he properly confronted and debunked it later on. He's the infamous Sonic Twitter meme guy now, but I remember him and his partner Ken Balough trying their best to shill for 4 when it came out. Allegedly he showed a guide for Classic Sonic's physics to Dimps before they told him that a 1:1 recreation (pre-Retro Engine) couldn't be done. The latter, Ken Balough was the subject of ire for failing to quell fans' anger about the lack of playable characters compared to S3&K, telling them to jump over boosters if they don't like them, who the game was actually aimed for, damage control for stupid design decisions/interviews from Iizuka and co in the game, etc. He also said a few things he shouldn't have on Facebook much later concerning the nature of Episode 2's ending. (Episode 3 was up in the air before Sega decided to cut their losses from the Sonic 4 shitshow so they removed another extra cliffhanger ending in Episode 2)
5f91ab No.14568838
>>14562954
So you're saying a Sonic OC online multiplayer game would sell to millions?
36df8a No.14568946
I just want another NiGHTS game and more NiGHTS porn.
c0a5f3 No.14568955
>>14568946
Nights is shit and has always been shit.
f52362 No.14568982
Sonic's problems are as follows:
No polished physics engine since the jump to 3D. Every game so far has had problems with this. They seem to have trouble nailing down the game mechanics in general. Forces is showing vast improvement on this since Adventure (no falling through the level) but especially in the 2D portions it still needs help.
Voiceovers suck. Common translation problem.
Sega has no idea what the fans want, and no solid direction of their own. Sonic never has had a solid direction. They are trying to please everyone and not doing so.
Still really liked forces. The environments were beautiful. The soundtrack was great. The time trials added adequate challenge. The villain was cool (when voiced by JP voice). The OC portions and customization were good to the point I wished the whole game was like that. My biggest complaint was the same thing as every other 3D Sonic, which was that the physics and controls could be much smoother. Nothing about it screamed self-sabotage.
f52362 No.14568983
c0a5f3 No.14568987
>>14568983
>doing loopty loops as a gay magical harlequin is so coooooooool
Fuck off
225b12 No.14569018
>>14568751
"His job" is never to lie.
If he lied, he must be accounted for it.
Also: never believe in community managers.
As a matter of fact, if a game has a community manager, stay away from said game.
>>14568982
Sonic being turned into a communist in Forces did not help either.
023a25 No.14569022
>>14568955
This
Everyone knows Klonoa is the superior fuccboi dreamer
f52362 No.14569023
>>14568987
NiD legitimately has some solid fucking gameplay behind it, gay harlequin or not.
36df8a No.14569042
>>14568987
>He wouldn't fuck NiGHTS
f52362 No.14569046
>>14569018
> Sonic being turned into a communist in Forces did not help either.
I had to think about what you even meant by this. The ad art was dumb and the resistance force just wound up feeling like a throwback to the Saturday morning Sonic cartoon where it was Freedom Fighters versus a Robotnik that took over the world, and was actually one of the better parts of the game's nonexistant plot. Nothing about it screamed or even whispered gommie propaganda.
43d531 No.14569092
>>14564860
>Sonic, and Sonic fans, are killing Sonic Team.
What baffles me is that even the fans just aren't buying this shit, yet they still keep producing it anyways. Runners was a horrible flop, the lootbox microtransaction shit didn't fly with the fans(or there wasn't enough of them left) and it got shut down after a year, Lost World, the last Sonic/Mario Olympic games, and ESPECIALLY Boom did horribly. Even the cartoon for that shit was doing poorly if what CN did to it was any indication, Mania was the only one to do well far as i can tell, and that wasn't done by Sonic Team.
>>14568982
>Voiceovers suck. Common translation problem.
The english voices are alright for the most part, the real problem, aside from the writing(i.e. sonic supposedly gets "tortured" for half a year, yet when you see him he's cracking jokes and talking shit like usual) is they never shut the fuck up for a second. Sonic is always on about friendship and cracking jokes, Tails sounds even gayer for Sonic than he ever has in any other game and is used to give retro sonic a voice, and to top it off Amy & Knuckles are always on the radio telling you about how great you're are.
>>14569018
>Sonic being turned into a communist in Forces did not help either.
Sonic forces wasn't particularly political, what are you on about.
>>14564772
For once, this nigger really dindu nuffin.
03e177 No.14569303
>>14562983
I'd say it's more of a matter of the modern industry in general being so shit anything that isn't a third person toot and shoot game immediately stands out in a positive light. Like, if you look at platforming games released on mainstream consoles (no Mario clones on mobile phones) you can count the amount on two hands easily.
Now let's change the premise to: Survival game where you have to beat opponents in a rapidly shrinking arena. And all of a sudden one in every three games fits in this category.
f9fd9f No.14569324
>>14569092
>Even the cartoon for that shit was doing poorly if what CN did to it was any indication
I've never been a fan of any of the shit Boom brought to the table, but the show was actually doing very well. You can go and take a look at the ratings if you don't believe me. CN just did what CN does. I didn't save the pictures, but 90% of their programmings was Teen Titans Go (no, seriously), so they kicked out all other shows to put that shit there, Boom included. Then they had to put the show somewhere else and they went with Boomerang, and the ratings fell by an order of magnitude.
f52362 No.14569340
>>14569283
>Its just a cashcow now, sega dont care about quality
True enough. The newer version of Mania which was great is being handled by a third party company. Even that is just a lazy attempt at a couple more bux.
219e8a No.14569370
>>14565049
Every Genesis game added a new character to the cast.
cf70ed No.14569391
>>14564678
>Implying that before Monster Hunter World anyone gave a shit about PS4
>Implying that the surge of PS2 wasn't because of DVDs and it being a DVD player as well
>Implying that PS3 wasn't riding on that wave
Come on now. The nips just aren't buying remakes for obvious reasons.
>>14567241
Jesus, that's some resume when it comes to game engines.
>>14568697
It's nip sales of the mainline titles only as far as I can tell. Up until that point in time.
d0f0f6 No.14569427
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
shut the fuck up here comes the good shit
6e6482 No.14569435
>>14565049
What is Sonic and Knuckles?
d0f0f6 No.14569447
>>14569435
a half of an amazing video game
1526ca No.14569455
>>14569427
>Sega is trying to kill Sonic
I posted this in the sonic thread but i'll put it here too.
The current Sonic canon is like this.
The modern Sonic is the original Sonic, he's lived though every game, but then Sonic Generations happened.
Generations created a split in the timeline Modern Sonic used to be classic sonic, but the Classic Sonic from Generations is now a Sonic in a changed timeline. Classic Sonic now had lived though Sonic 1, 2, 3, and CD, but then Generations changed his path.
Modern Sonic never lived though Sonic Mania, but this alt Timeline Classic Sonic did, this New Classic Sonic may never live though the events of any sonic game after 1, 2, 3, and CD. which means Sonic Mania time line is a timeline where the Adventure games and everything after may never happen.
Sonic Team basically found a way to make Classic Sonic games that can completely ignore everything that has happened in the last 20 years, while still having the modern Sonic timeline for games that can still use characters that are fan favorites like Shadow.
In reality Sonic could now be in the most stable shape it's ever been going forward now. The only reason Sonic games may not get better is because they still sell a shit ton no matter how much effort Sega put into them.
Sonic Adventure 3 isn't happening because the only people who wanted it are sweaty nerds (myself included) who only make up like 10% of the current people who would buy Sonic games.
1526ca No.14569457
477723 No.14569970
Is Mania Plus gonna remove Denuvo?
959fdd No.14569997
>>14569970
Wait, Mania had Denuvo?
5dbf03 No.14570047
>>14569997
Yes, where were you when that shitstorm happened two weeks after Mark streamed the Switch version? Really surprising since their previous PC ports released just months earlier such as Platinum Games' two titles didn't have it.
959fdd No.14570053
>>14570047
I intentionally avoid threads where people shitpost about how mad they are. Or threads about Mark. They must've ripped that shit out quick, I pirated it a week or two after it was released. Clearly it doesn't matter if it has Denuvo or not at this point.
477723 No.14570073
>>14570053
It still has Denuvo, which yes, is completely pointless since it got cracked in less than a week.
The PC launch was a major fuckup.
959fdd No.14570108
>>14570098
>Always pirate. Never buy, anon.
Any reason you're telling me this?
89f250 No.14570159
>>14570108
Cause he is the resident free entertainment commie.
e32b6b No.14570168
>>14570108
>>14570159
These days, it's honestly hard to name people who actually deserve money between all the fuckups, anti-consumer practices, and politics.
d2852f No.14570182
>>14570159
Piracy is capitalism.
Getting luxuries for free is any capitalists' wet dream.
Communism doesn't net you any luxury product for free because it can barely sustain your life.
1526ca No.14570209
>>14570098
>Shadow is shit
I disagree anon
f9fd9f No.14570243
>>14569997
Yeah, they delayed the PC launch 2 weeks to add that. Then, they didn't mention the game had it, and didn't include the Denuvo EULA on the Steam page at first, so you didn't know that you were getting it.
>>14570053
Forces lasted like 2 months without being cracked though.
f9fd9f No.14570252
>>14570098
>The thing that i hate most about Sonic's adaptations in cartoons is that there was never one that followed the basic premise of the Mega Drive trilogy. One without any made-up characters or any deviation. Simply make an action cartoon with little dialogue, and a plot that is expanded upon the new entries (Sonic 2, 3 & Knuckles), and maybe touching the Mega CD and 32x titles as well.
Honestly, it sounds boring as shit.
004e8c No.14571349
>>14570209
If he really was a jointops-radcorp surfer, then he wouldn't be shit, but his game forever made him a laughing stock.
1526ca No.14571395
>>14571349
If they were just be a little more tongue and cheek with Shadow's edginess then he can work great IMO. Like Shadow can still be slightly more serious character, but he needs to be contrasted with less serious people, like poke fun at him a little without straight up mocking him.
e2eb9e No.14571429
>>14571395
So basically just more of this.
1526ca No.14571445
>>14571429
Yes, The most recent Archie comics handled every Sonic character perfectly, knowing exactly how to both make characters likable and poke fun at them.
f9fd9f No.14571476
>>14571445
Omega was pretty fucking great.
f52362 No.14571511
>>14570098
>See the big red star (a.k.a, international communism) in the logo, as a start.
>And as for the old cartoon, it was exactly that: "freedom" fighters against "evil" industrial science.
>You can pretty much see that sentence in every single speech by communists, old or new.
>Remember that the subversion was already in course even before we knew about it.
>And then, Forces gives a throwback to exactly that part of the franchise's history, of all things. And then you have the lyrics with "i don't care who is wrong or who is right".
>Communist subversion is never a coincidence. If it looks like it, it is it.
Sometimes a cigar is a cigar, anon. As for the old cartoons you may be right but at some point you have to draw a line between influence and blatant propaganda. The conflict between the freedom fighters and the evil scientist dictator and his robot army made for an interesting central plot for Sonic then and considering Sonic has been lacking that it was welcome here, even if it was poorly fleshed out.
>>14570098
>A transsexual harlequin with a "boo hoo bullies" and "boo hoo i'm shy" plot that made the soyboy director cry.
lolwut. Dude the fun of the game comes from the simple level run gameplay and pulling off tricks. It plays like a flying version of Sonic with a very very small dash of Tony Hawk in there. Also has an interesting virtual pet mechanic to play with, and in that regard it rewards revisiting the interesting environments.
I get it if the games aren't for you but you just sound like a triggered dick. Perhaps you might want to watch your own soy intake before you start producing tears randomly.
f52362 No.14571519
>>14570159
Ideas and data lack scarcity and can be easily duplicated. Regulations are imposed. You can not directly compare them to trade of goods.
1526ca No.14571538
>>14571488
Well sorry you feel that way anon, but like it or not Shadow is the 2nd most popular Sonic character only beaten by Sonic himself so he an't going anywhere.
1e5a68 No.14571595
>>14562844
Sony never owned Crash Bandicoot or Spyro. Those IPs have changed hands from company to company for years. How can they kill IPs they don't own?
a178ed No.14571851
>>14563061
They may have cheated me out of a refund, but I'm never buying a Sega published game again. Not even the next Sumo racer, which will be an autistic shitfest anyway.
bdce38 No.14578511
>>14571538
Shadow is edgy teen shit.
5b111b No.14578608
I can't tell if this proves OP completely right, or completely wrong.
shop.sega.com/collections/sanic-collection (Archiving it doesn't work properly)
004e8c No.14578644
>>14578608
Memes are a double-edged sword. There is a possibility that they may turn the entire IP into Shadow-tier laughing stock and it may end up being remembered more for memes and shitposting than the actual games. Like how Half-Life is at this point remembered more for the whole HL3 fiasco and the recent Hunt Down The Freeman shitshow. The point is - meme responsibly and don't be surprised if (assuming your link is actually an April Fools joke) Sanic and Ugandan Knuckles will be unironically sold as merch.
74bc62 No.14578650
>>14574648
poorfags rule more like
>>14571851
pussy
5b111b No.14578800
>>14578644
>The point is - meme responsibly and don't be surprised if (assuming your link is actually an April Fools joke) Sanic and Ugandan Knuckles will be unironically sold as merch.
It's real; the Sanic T-Shirt has gone from something they joked about on Twitter, to a free joke DLC item in Forces, to an official product you can buy.
The last time they memed this irresponsibly, Bubsy came back from the dead, and Aaron opened the next livestream with an apology for his sins.
https://twitter.com/RubyEclipse/status/872900442606379008
004e8c No.14578823
>>14578800
Aw fuck, abandon all hope then.
f7920e No.14580346
>>14578665
Sonic Mania sold way better on consoles, anyway.
978801 No.14580362
>>14580346
Sonic Mania is so successful it even got its own cartoon.
74bc62 No.14580374
>>14580346
there's just a lot less PC gamers that buy games outside of RTS or even play games outside of meth addict shit.
>>14580362
this is out already? I thought it was gonna be in the summer.
978801 No.14580391
>>14580374
>this is out already? I thought it was gonna be in the summer.
I don't know why you thought that. March 30 first episode came out.
f7920e No.14580392
>>14580374
You're thinking of Sonic Mania Plus, the expansion for Sonic Mania. This is Sonic Mania Adventures, a series of 5 animated shorts released monthly on YouTube based on the world of Sonic Mania.
74bc62 No.14580417
>>14580391
I probably got mixed up with plus like >>14580392 (thanks) implied. Pretty nice short.
777eac No.14580525
>>14562844
I just assumed that Sonic Team stopped giving a shit about Sonic. Devs are not immune to franchise exhaustion. In fact, it's kinda dumb that people think Sonic is so important in the first place. He's Sega's mascot, but he hasn't been important since at least the Dreamcast. Probably more, if you consider that the Saturn barely even had Sonic at all. Sega has way more franchises than just Sonic, and almost none of their really good games have been Sonic since the 90s.
Actually, Mario hasn't been too different. The biggest difference is that it stagnated completely so it will never be a huge disaster like Sonic Team's embarrassing attempts to do new shit that doesn't belong in Sonic games. And Mario games at least are never rushed. And I guess Nintendo's games haven't been interesting in quite a while, so I guess you don't have much of a choice. Nintendo's most interesting games were never the Mario games, at least to me. I would even argue that the classic Sonic games are way better than any of the 2D Marios.
1526ca No.14580633
>>14580525
>Devs are not immune to franchise exhaustion
That's the thing Devs hardly stay on Sonic team long enough to get exhausted, Sonic team is basically just a name at this point since pretty much everyone keeps getting swapped and replaced. Nobody stays on Sonic Team long enough to refine things.
1bf489 No.14580661
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Don't let it hit'cha, move.
777eac No.14580669
>>14580633
Makes sense as well. I can still only assume that they aren't interested, though.
1526ca No.14580715
>>14580669
We'll just have to see what the future brings.
I think Forces being mediocre was just circumstances, They spent 3 years working on the engine so, Sega probably just wanted them to get a game out already, so the actual development of game was rushed. The new Sonic racing game (likely outsourced) should be for keeping fans at bay for awhile,
Sonic team shouldn't have anything dividing their attention now, so i'm curious as to where the next Sonic game can go. anything can happen with this freaking series.
a13d49 No.14580734
>>14564186
I miss these threads
9c7009 No.14580784
>>14570182
There should more dirt poor people under capitalism then there ever was under communism.
353e1c No.14580817
Here's a theory I'll pull out of my ass: once the fanbase demonstrated they'd buy anything there was no business argument for hiring top talent. I'd guess the management there never actually worked on games and possibly came from another industry where skimping on quality just causes cancer.
ce26d6 No.14580832
Resurrect Eternal Champions, Sega
1526ca No.14580860
>>14580817
>once the fanbase demonstrated they'd buy anything there was no business argument for hiring top talent.
That's not a theory that's just commonsense. There is no need to put effort into something that people will buy in droves regardless.
And the thing is despite what reviewers and older fans say about the lack of polish in Sonic games. It doesn't matter because at the end of the day Sonic's main fanbase is kids and kids will always love Sonic regardless if the games are mediocre since they don't know any better.
f9fd9f No.14580892
>>14580391
Is Sonic missing a quill there?
8650e8 No.14580926
>>14571476
>pursue aquatic life
heh
74bc62 No.14582119
>>14581075
>Rich guys that don't spend on entertainment but get them nonetheless.
is what what you tell yourself? money isn't an object to the rich
ce26d6 No.14582191
>>14580895
You know what SEGA really needs to bring back?
2a002b No.14582260
>>14580832
It was announced around a year ago that the producer of the original game wanted to make an un-official reboot titled Eternal Successors. The project might be already dead though, since we haven't got an update in eons.
0b60b2 No.14582848
>>14562844
I'm starting to think that Sonic Team is to blame rather than SEGA. Especially because of the games you mentioned are of top quality. I think that the current Sonic Team is just sick and tired of Sonic and is being forced by SEGA in the same way Sakurai is being kept on Smash Bros despite hating them. It's one of the reasons I think Mania was such a refresh is because the younger tallent had such respect for the source material, yet wanted to evolve it at the same time. Like Chemical Plant wasn't the same stage from 2, in fact it was an entirely different stage.
I think what SEGA needs to do is get a younger team of developers who really care about these games to redesign what a Sonic Game is in 3D. Kinda like what Lange is doing with Sonic Utopia, it's basically rethinking what 2D Sonic is and how to put it in 3D. Depending on how the next Utopia demo is, I think SEGA should replace Sonic Team with these guys.
74bc62 No.14582862
>>14582800
>look ma, my bank account has 4 digits in it
>I'm rich now!
wew laddie
0b60b2 No.14582917
>>14582862
>taking the bait
smh tbh fam
2a002b No.14582927
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14582800
>It had shit controls.
Eternal Champions CD was more polished in that regard though. It's wasn't Capcom/SNK tier but still pretty good for a Western fightan.
>And current western devs are all leftist pieces of shit. It would be shit if it were ever to be made.
True dat
43d531 No.14582933
Reminder that the anon who just got banned for political derailing and types out every sentence in it's own line is a huenigger.
74bc62 No.14582972
>>14582933
was he the one spamming gore?
137b7c No.14583904
>>14568987
Fuck off Gerstmannenburg, GB is dead and you did nothing to stop it.
55e7af No.14584510
>>14582848
Dame. If I was SEGA, I'd just get the Mania guys to make future Sonic games and fund them to be drawn like Shante 1/2 Genie Hero. Sonic Team does better with games that aren't Sonic.
1526ca No.14584527
>>14584510
If they can have the Mania guys focus on filling the niche for Classic Sonic games then 3D Sonic can finally focus on just being 3D and improving that aspect, instead of trying to please everyone by doing both 3D and 2D.
225b12 No.14588396
There are butthurt communists and fanboys reporting anons for exposing the communist propaganda in Sonic Forces.
225b12 No.14588444
>>14582848
It is not about age.
It is about merit, competence and talent.
Hire competent and talented people with merit, and everything will be good.
Hire anyone else, and everything will be shit.
>>14582862
Stay mad, corporate cuck.
I keep all my money to myself while still getting all entertainment fro free without ever paying their creators and the companies that own them.
Entertainers are nothing more than slaves to me: they work, i get what they produce, and i don't give anything in return.
Joke is on them for still creating what i like without me giving anything in return for them.
>>14582927
I never played the Sega CD one.
But the main problem lies in the current western devs. It is guaranteed to be made by marxists, so it is better to not have it at all.
>>14582933
Hello again.
And yes, Sonic Forces IS communist propaganda.
>>14583535
You don't need to be a communist down here.
It is pretty much the opposite: capitalists that exploit communists get rich pretty quickly.
>>14583742
This anon gets it.
The communists are infiltrated here, and some are even mods.
88aac8 No.14589300
>>14569092
>All the Sonic games that were mediocre are flopping. Meanwhile, Mania, a game that answered what people were asking from a Sonic game and more, was successful.
Gee it's almost like if you actually channel effort and passion into a game you get a good game fans are willing to buy.
f7920e No.14589370
>>14569092
Too bad Forces was a financial success, with an increase in sales from Japan, and likely a similar increase across the US and Europe.
bda4c2 No.14589660
ALERT! ALERT!
The GDEMU is up for sale again on Saturday.
https://gdemu.wordpress.com/
I don't have the funds to drop $160 on one at the moment, but I want to make sure people who actually give a damn about video games know, since I found out by chance. These damn things are beyond a pain in the ass to acquire.
3e6818 No.14589720
>>14588444
Describe for me, a competent, talented person without "merit".
3e6818 No.14589729
Can someone give evidence for the argument that Sonic Forces is or contains communist propaganda?
bdce38 No.14593722
>>14589729
I'd be interested in this too.
b7c9b7 No.14594071
>>14588444
More communist censorship
>>14583742
bdce38 No.14599551
ce26d6 No.14600099
Please bring it to the west.
It's not too late.
bc0f84 No.14600774
225b12 No.14602866
>>14589720
Fallen former competent people.
Those that were competent in the beginning, but for whatever reason, declined their quality, but are still hired "on the merit" of their former good works.
This is as much cancer as hiring leftists. There are many decadent individuals that lean on their former glories to get hired. And all of them ruin the new projects that they work on.
See the case for Cliff Blazinga, the Rare's former staff that worked on Yooka Laylee, and many others.
>>14594071
Yes. There is a communist mod lurking here.
Nonetheless, the board is OURS to do what we want, not to pander to communists and their propaganda games such as Sonic Forces.
>>14589370
Which will ruin the sales of the next 3D Sonic game, as Forces was shit, and most who bought it won't by the next one.
>>14589729
>>14593722
My post was deleted by a communist mod.
But here is the short version:
-The logo contains a big red star, symbol of international communism.
-The game centers around the plot of overthrowing a "oppressive dictator" in the name of "freedom", with the cast acting as a guerrilla group. This thing about "fighting oppression with large groups" is the most common "argument" pushed by leftists to justify enacting communism.
-The lyrics from the main song have the phrase "I don't care who is right or who is wrong". Again, the typical subversion of leftists, that push the stupidity that "good or bad are subjective" (they are not), to justify whatever is convenient for them as being "good", and everything else as "bad".
-Then, there are the characters' dialogue. They all range from "anything goes to take down oppression" to "even if we are wrong, i won't stop now".
5dbf03 No.14603943
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14602866
>Fallen former competent people Those that were competent in the beginning, but for whatever reason, declined their quality, but are still hired "on the merit" of their former good works. This is as much cancer as hiring leftists.
Reminds me that Tom Kalinske and Al Nilsen, the former CEO and marketing director for Sega respectively back during their peak in the early '90s retweet corrupt game journo sites and anti Trump stuff now.
>The game centers around the plot of overthrowing a "oppressive dictator" in the name of "freedom", with the cast acting as a guerrilla group. This thing about "fighting oppression with large groups" is the most common "argument" pushed by leftists to justify enacting communism.
The characters themselves aren't shown to promote anything marxist, maoist, etc. Just a generic conflict about good vs evil and environmentalism (without going full anarcho-primitivism considering they use technology to fight back with Tails being a noted inventor and computer expert) that has been present since the very beginning of the series. They go on about "THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP" than about hard economics and politics. Eggman is not a strawman fascist in a strong sense, and does not rant about pro-nationalist/traditionalist/racialist ideals in the game nor are there any implications or analogues as such besides targeting furries, which does not prevent him hiring and using a squad of jackals in the game's prologue dlc regardless.
>The lyrics from the main song have the phrase "I don't care who is right or who is wrong". Again, the typical subversion of leftists, that push the stupidity that "good or bad are subjective" (they are not), to justify whatever is convenient for them as being "good", and everything else as "bad".
The song you're referring to, "It Doesn't Matter" is Sonic's theme song that was utilized in the Adventure games and featured as an extra in Generations and other spin-offs. It's not in Forces itself as far as I know as the main theme for that is "Fist Bump"
https://genius.com/Douglas-robb-from-hoobastank-fist-bump-lyrics
The song is pretty gay, and like with the aforementioned Kalinske and Nilsen, the singer did say some anti-Trump stuff on twitter, so there's that. The star is the only thing that could be construed as a reference to communism, but along with the rest of your points, it's a real stretch. I can see why people would be skeptical of your claims to the degree of a mod deleting your earlier post for unwarranted political derailment. Bonus vid is from a shitty game where an instrumental of the song plays at the end-he talks about not "minding playing the bad guy" on occasion.
225b12 No.14604131
>>14603943
Kalinske and Nielsen exposed themselves as leftist liars.
They always praised the corrupt press, and they probably were in bed with the corrupt journos.
That is precisely why i am sure that everything that both said about Sega of Japan in the 90s were lies. They tried to cover their own incompetence by blaming the (at the time, inaccessible) japanese branch, while having their lies spread as truth by the corrupt journos.
Those two must be persecuted and have their whole life investigated, as they are surely criminals involved in as many corruption as the western mainstream media.
The thing with the leftist subversion (and that i said in the deleted post) is that it is never a coincidence. There ARE leftists that are still subtle. Putting subtle propaganda aimed at children in a game like Sonic Forces is a way to propagate their agenda without raising complains about it, as the fanbase consists of brand loyalists that buy anything with the name sonic, and children.
And, with leftist subvertion, everything that looks like it, it is it. There are no coincidences, as i said before.
The kind of people working on the game, as you exposed, is another reason to be sure that the imagery and theme chosen this time was done for the sole purpose of communist propaganda.
Remember that Sonic's plot about fighting Eggman was secondary to the gameplay, even in Adventure's days. The whole "united oppressed against evil dictator" being brought back in full force, even topping the gameplay when the game was marketed, it is not a coincidence. Nor is the fact that the new villain (forgot his name) is presented as "an 'evil' that must be stopped even if he is not at all evil".