bd6bc2 No.14419070
This is one of those series cursed by shit sales and forgotten, but I've seen the name crop up quite a few times recently for some reason, so let's have ourselves a motherfucking Baten Kaitos thread.
>What the fuck is that?
Two JRPGs made for the gamecube by Monolith soft of Xeno fame. To be more precise, they were made by remnants of the Chrono Chross team hired by Monolith's Tetsuya Takahashi, main creative director of the Xeno series, doing his old Squaresoft friends a solid and allowing them to go all out on game projects while he was making Xenosaga. The colorful palette of Chrono Chross can be seen in Baten Kaitos, except there it's fully realized, with some genuinely amazingly creative worlds and art direction. And while Chrono Chross is kind of shit, the Baten Kaitos games are anything but.
>How's the gameplay?
It is unique among JRPGs in that they are entirely card-based. Attack, defense, and pretty much everything goes through cards that are drawn at random during combat. In the first game, every card is either a heal/special status, an attack, or a defence you oppose to an enemy's attack. In the second, combat is heavily based on combos. In both games, you are asked to pay attention at all times and make split-second decisions constantly.
>What of the stories?
Surprisingly dark and daring. Eternal Wings starts out kind of blatantly as the most generic shit ever and goes to twists that were unique at the time and still aren't so common. Also the protagonist is an asshole. Origins has to be seen to be believed.
>Any downsides to be aware of?
They're fucking nightmares for the completionist, and have tedious overarching sidequests. Eternal Wings has that one bossfight which doesn't allow for grinding if you show up unprepared. Origins can be overly frustrating, with even some regular enemies poised to delete your shit.
>How do I play it?
Dolphin. Here are the emuparadise links.
https://www.emuparadise.me/Nintendo_Gamecube_ISOs/Baten_Kaitos_-_Eternal_Wings_and_the_Lost_Ocean_(Europe)_(En,Fr,De,Es,It)_(Disc_1)/66744
https://www.emuparadise.me/Nintendo_Gamecube_ISOs/Baten_Kaitos_Origins_(Disc_1)/66092
2a8855 No.14419122
I only played the 1st 999999999999 years ago, but it was a godly game. I tried replaying it recently on dolphin but something stopped me and I eventually lost the save. Still remember some of the fucking beautiful towns and locations it had.
I might still have my copy, so I'll have to bust it out one day and play it legit. Same with the sequel, once I acquire it on ebay or something for cheap.
bd6bc2 No.14419180
Also, I should have mentioned Eternal Wings is famous for its atrocious dub. It's not even limited to the VA talent, all voices are clearly recorded in low quality. Origins, thankfully, fixes that.
>>14419122
Why did you sage?
41b023 No.14419189
I was mildly interested, then I saw how easy it was to get. I'll post again once I've played the game.
41b023 No.14419195
e14a30 No.14419198
>>14419070
Easily one of my favorite JRPGs on the Gamecube along with the other forgotten gem Skies of Arcadia. Never played Origins, but I remember some people saying it wasn't anywhere near as good as the first.
0907f7 No.14419199
I want to fuck Kalas. Good games by the way OP.
bd6bc2 No.14419222
>>14419195
I was operating on the fact that once they know where to get it, they'd find the second disk by their damn selves. But thank you nonetheless.
>>14419198
The only way you'd consider Origins inferior to Eternal Wings is that you have a fixed team of three characters, and it's kind of ridiculously punishing at times.
bb13c6 No.14419269
>>14419180
>
>Also, I should have mentioned Eternal Wings is famous for its atrocious dub. It's not even limited to the VA talent, all voices are clearly recorded in low quality
Actually the game just slaps a stupid filter over all the voices, even in the Nipponese version. You can disable it by turning on surround sound.
>>14419222
> fixed team of three characters,
It's a step up from the original where you have 6 party members but 2 were flat out useless compared to the other 4 (they simply didn't have the magnus to make a full deck without conflicting elements) and of the remaining 4, 2 were only in the party together for very short periods of time Mizuti and Kalas are only usable simultaneously at the very end of disc one and end game so which 3 you use is pretty limited.
944449 No.14419307
>>14419269
>the game just slaps a stupid filter over all the voices, even in the Nipponese version
The "talk through a cardboard tube" filter is for immersion purposes. Supposedly. You aren't necessarily playing as Kalas.
>(they simply didn't have the magnus to make a full deck without conflicting elements)
Whose fucking idea was it to have Savyna's deck almost entirely fire and ice anyway?
796463 No.14419812
Is this an even remotely hard to find or rare game now days? This is one of those games I bought on a whim in like 2004 or 2005, got about half way through and never finished. It's been sitting in my collection since.
1f6b71 No.14420322
You can undub and play with diosmios or whatever it's called if you've got a Wii or WiiU.
2ab2f3 No.14420334
>>14419070
Isn't this the Speed Run game that is completely retarded?
ace7aa No.14420380
>>14419180
Is there an undub then?
e86757 No.14420510
>>14419195
>emuparadise
is this your idea of a joke?
41b023 No.14420840
>>14420510
Did you even look at the OP before posting that?
bd6bc2 No.14420852
dd534a No.14420886
I remember this game, it got great reviews when it first came out, though the voice acting was shit MUH BEAUTIFUL WIINGS
I had it or have on the GC somewhere, I got the shit ending lmao.
bd6bc2 No.14421648
>>14419307
I think the idea behind Savyna was that she's the dedicated trash mob slayer. Fire and water being the most common weaknesses, and her attack animations being faster than all other characters. That doesn't make for a great character even ideally though, especially when considering the elements cancelling mechanic.
bb13c6 No.14421682
>>14420334
The 100% run, yes. There's an item that changes only after like a week of play (actual playtime, not system clock).
ea66ff No.14427870
>>14421682
The mere idea of a Baten Kaitos 100% speedrun is ludicrous. 100% the game is known to be an insane pain in the ass in the first place. It has to be made in jest.
41b023 No.14427938
>>14427870
What do you mean? It's already been done.
2a62ef No.14427962
>>14419812
I saw it used at a used game place for $29 USD. I have no idea if the manual was in it or if the disk was in good shape. I might grab it just to have in my GameCube collection.
ea66ff No.14427989
>>14427938
I did not imply it didn't exist. Just that it had no sensible reason to exist.
>search Xelha so I can post some artwork
>it's entirely taken by some park in beaner country
>even when searching for the game specifically, you get some fat whore cosplaying as her
Jesus, Baten Kaitos really can't take a break.
>>14427962
Or you could grab it to play it. It really is a good game.
f6be74 No.14428012
It is still on my list of "must play sometime" via emulation.
I always liked the battle song from the first game.
It's gameplay trailer with that song was what made me want to play it.
3807c5 No.14428309
I tried to play this once, I have a fetish for card game shit shoved into completely unrelated genres
I quit pretty early into it, it was super fucking boring, the setting, dialog, even the fucking cards themselves seemed purpose built to put me to goddamn sleep, don't know if it's worth sitting through all that if it gets better later
ea66ff No.14428326
>>14428309
Eternal Wings has kind of a "we're setting things up to be generic so it can pay off later on when we take out the kiddy gloves" thing going on, but if you don't like the gameplay then I guess that's all you need to try.
c3085a No.14428341
Isn't Origins the one with the removed female player option? Is it actually significant to the plot?
ea66ff No.14428355
>>14428341
Yes, Origins doesn't let you choose the gender of the guardian spirit whereas they let you choose it in Eternal Wings, but it was utterly trivial, just changing pronouns. It's basically of no consequence at all.
c56701 No.14428723
>>14419070
Reminds me that I need to get back to that series sometime. On a related note, anyone have/know where to find complete artbook scans for the first game (I know it has one; not sure about Origins)?
>>14419812
The first game, not in my experiences. It's not exactly common, but not rare either if you ask me. Origins though sold like shit both in Japan and out here from what I've heard (too close to the Wii's release; PAL didn't even see it), and goes for a good it more. Last time I saw Origins locally it was marked at $100, and after a few wings I didn't see it there anymore (admittedly might be an outlier, think $50 was the average at the time). Of course, I'm speaking more of local sightings; for all I know Eternal Wings could be kind of hard to find in its own right, but demand might be low enough to keep prices low and copies available. Of course, I assume most anons would just bypass the need to find or buy physical copies of either, and just emulate, or play it via loader programs.
>>14427989
Well if you're checking western sites/search engines, that's liable to be what you're going to get. For Japanese made works/series, learn to booru, or pixiv, or whatnot, as they tend to be more popular amongst Japanese artists, and thus Japanese focused aggregates. Though, even amongst those, Baten Kaitos doesn't seem to have too much art. Have a few Xelhas.
>>14420840
Could be that he's mad at shilling a site that pre-emptively removes games that see digital rereleases of late without being DMCAed in the first place? At least, I recall that being found to be the case, and mostly effecting games that got VC releases on Nintendo's systems, and PS2 games that got digital "remasters" for the PS4.
>>14428341
>>14428355
It's still immersion being lost in doing so, at least for female players (or guys that want to play as a female spirit guiding the male protags). Heard 8-4 censored a song in Origins too. Combining both, along with their considering Origins a favorite project of theirs (IE: no oversight), it's made me more than a bit leery of actually bothering. It took years for the spirit gender toggle removal to become known here, and it makes me wonder what else they might have done to it beyond that and the music.
3a4f4b No.14428802
>>14419070
That ugly fat bastard in the first game was a bitch boy for Questor Verus. Thanks for reminding me fam.
ea66ff No.14428829
>>14428723
>For Japanese made works/series, learn to booru, or pixiv, or whatnot
I know how to booru, but pic related.
023b5f No.14430195
Baten Kaitos Origins was the first time I imported a game from the US because I live in Europe. I even had to buy an Action Replay because of the fucking region lock. Still absolutely worth it.
>>14419222
>The only way you'd consider Origins inferior to Eternal Wings is that you have a fixed team of three characters
I actually proffered it that way, it allowed the writers to flash out each character better. It also meant that all three characters were gaining EXP, instead of only your main three, while the other three were always behind and useless in combat.
>>14421682
I'm pretty sure that item was made 100% just to fuck with completion autists. What I was younger and had only like three or four games I was considering trying to collect all the cards, but when I saw that one I just said "fuck this shit".
>>14419307
>The "talk through a cardboard tube" filter is for immersion purposes. Supposedly. You aren't necessarily playing as Kalas.
I'm sure it sounded like a really cool idea on paper, but the execution was really dumb. When you first start the game you will have no idea why the sound is so bad and just assume the voice-overs were recorded in someone's garage using cardboard tubes they had lying around.
c56701 No.14433663
>>14428829
>I know how to booru
>12 images
Not nearly enough. Admittedly though, each booru (or aggregate, really) has its pros and cons, but learning to utilize multiple to find what you want is key, especially for series without much in the way of art to begin with (obviously there will be overlap, but sometimes various ones will have art that others don't, for better or worse). You can also find some official art for things at times on sites like Creative Uncut, if that's more what you want. You're right though that Baten Kaitos really doesn't have much fanart in general, but the series not retaining much relevance in either east or west for over a decade (and most art they might have gotten during their heyday being before certain aggregate sites) will do that.
>>14430195
I feel sorry for PAL fans of various series, especially JRPGs. Even with the PSN and VC, which one might think would make for easy ways to finally release older games into various regions that never got them (especially when there's an English script already, albeit of at times varying quality), they rarely seem to get utilized for that (and while there is the option of making an account in, say, NA's region, or Japan if you know moon, that still requires getting import cards/wall codes; piracy and emulation/flashcart/loader is likely better than paying to rent a digital copy anyhow). Not like it helps BKO, or other games/systems that haven't seen digital rereleases, but still a missed opportunity in a number of cases.
023b5f No.14437896
>>14433663
>I feel sorry for PAL fans of various series, especially JRPGs.
Thanks to the internet it has become easier to just pirate the stuff I want and emulate it. With my soft-modded Wii I can just play games off a USB hard drive, that's so much more convenient than console piracy just one generation before that. I consider myself usually a buyfag, but I am not willing to pay the horrendous prices scalpers demand for some games.
While on that topic, I didn't know that "disc" is spelled as "disk" in the US, so I was at first afraid that I had gotten some fake bootleg. The US and EU GameCube cases are also quite different, I had no idea how to get the discs out of that weird US case, I was really afraid of breaking them. WTF were they thinking with that?
3807c5 No.14438077
>>14437896
>I didn't know that "disc" is spelled as "disk" in the US
It's not
Though the spellings can be relatively interchangeable, "disc" generally refers to CDs and the like, while "disk" refers to other shit like floppies
c56701 No.14438678
>>14437896
>I consider myself usually a buyfag, but I am not willing to pay the horrendous prices scalpers demand for some games.
I do as well, but system modding/flashcarting/emulation (whatever is the case for a given system) helps cover all one's bases, between not dropping absurd money (without at least trying a game via piracy first), bypassing region locking, and playing mods and fan-translations (though I don't think the Gamecube has any English ones as of yet; makes me wonder if that effort for one of the SRW games ever pulled through though). And yeah, loaders are quite helpful in comparison to needing actual modchips, action replays/swap discs, and burned discs for actual games.
>The US and EU GameCube cases are also quite different, I had no idea how to get the discs out of that weird US case, I was really afraid of breaking them. WTF were they thinking with that?
Gamecube discs are rather sturdy in terms of being able to bend somewhat without creasing or breaking, but you're correct that multi-disc cases can be a bit more of a pain to get them out of. Namely the second discs, since usually the socket for the first gets a bit more wear (not everyone making it to the second disc for longer games). What are the PAL multidisc cases like? Do they just use an insert or something (the way PS2 and Wii games did) instead?
a232c1 No.14442238
>>14438678
PAL discs have one normal embed in the back of the case and one embed flopping in between. Both are pretty easy to remove.
So, buyfag, have you made any progress in the game yet?
a4d433 No.14442383
>>14428355
>>14428341
…did either of you actually fucking PLAY Origins all the way through? The "guardian spirit" in Origins attached to Sagi is actually a fragment of Malpercio's soul.
a232c1 No.14443421
>>14442383
It's the first choice in the game, why did you feel the need to bring up the conclusion?
c56701 No.14444741
>>14442238
>one embed flopping in between
Ah, so an insert then. Also sounds like either PAL production made the sockets less tight, or maybe you just got lucky with used copies that were a bit worn. Again, it's mainly games with second discs I notice here that have a problem with the discs coming out. Granted, I usually pick up games preowned (when I find them at decent prices anyhow), so most single disc Gamecube cases, and the first discs of games with multiple discs, come out fairly easily (while still being able to lock into place; not like they just fall out).
>So, buyfag, have you made any progress in the game yet?
Going to have to wait until at least next week. Got family over right now, and a friend's on spring break until Sunday, so it's not that easy to get back into stuff when everyone wants a piece of one's time. I did at least call break time at the end of one of the areas though, as I'd just finished the cloud area (at least for a first time; not sure how often Eternal Wings has you revisit places), so I know where I left off. Really pretty area that was too. Do wonder if there's a better way to organize your decks though; all too often I'd find myself either getting tons of defensive cards when I'd prefer to go on the offense, and then blow what offensive cards I'd get trying to reduce damage (as weapon cards can be used to block, to lesser effectiveness). I know what hand you get is luck based, but still.
a232c1 No.14444777
>>14444741
>Got family over right now, and a friend's on spring break until Sunday, so it's not that easy to get back into stuff when everyone wants a piece of one's time.
Such things happen, don't worry about it.
>as I'd just finished the cloud area (at least for a first time; not sure how often Eternal Wings has you revisit places)
Diadem then ? The first disk has you visit islands one at a time, second completes the tour with Alfard, Wazn and Duhr and lets you faff about afterward. I guess it's technically revisiting, but it's not really forced by the story, apart from one place which serves as your base of command of sorts.
>all too often I'd find myself either getting tons of defensive cards when I'd prefer to go on the offense, and then blow what offensive cards I'd get trying to reduce damage
Yeah, that's kind of how it works sadly. Origins introduces the possibility to discard cards and there's no shuffle time, but in exchange it cranks up the difficulty.
023b5f No.14447245
>>14438678
>What are the PAL multidisc cases like? Do they just use an insert or something (the way PS2 and Wii games did) instead?
I made a photo of the two games for comparison. The first disc is like in a normal case, the second disc is on some flap that's on a hinge between the front and the back of the disc. To release it you press the triangle in the middle, like with most DVD cases.
The US case is weird as fuck. What are those things on the right supposed to be? When the case is closed it looks like you could push a rod through it to seal the case, I guess. At least that's the only sense I could make of it.
c56701 No.14448084
>>14444777
Checked
Diadem sounds about right.
>>14447245
For the sake of comparison, here in the US, with PS2 games having inserts similar to your Gamecube ones, the first disc still goes in front. Just saying. With the North American multidisc cases, I think it's likely a case of NoA (or Nintendo of Japan as well, depending on if we just borrowed their cases' design or not) wanting to save money on production in not making a separate insert, given the discs are small enough that two can fit in the back if you rearrange things on the production mold.
>What are those things on the right supposed to be?
That's actually a good question and I really don't know myself. One would probably have to find an NTSC Gamecube case patent, or something, and see what purpose it's labelled as serving.
aefb8e No.14452474
>Recorded a Origins battle so I could illustrate how it works
>Xmedia recode keeps crashing every time I try to convert it into a webm
41b023 No.14456603
>game asks you to name yourself
>refers to you in dialogue regularly
>shitty voice acting doesn't help the giant pauses where your name should be
What the fuck were they thinking?
aefb8e No.14456616
>>14456603
Such is the price of falling for the immersion meme. The most baffling thing is that, in Origins, the spirit is always male, yet they don't even use "he", the giant pauses are still there.
bb13c6 No.14456707
>>14456616
You're only always male in the English version. You still had the option in the Nipponese version.
c56701 No.14457013
>>14456603
Definitely an aspect that would have worked better had the game been meant as having dialogue be text-only. Would be curious though as to whether the Japanese audio handles name pauses better.
a4d433 No.14457922
>>14456707
>You still had the option in the Nipponese version.
That doesn't make any sense. Isn't the "Ar" fragment that made up the group Malpercio male?
b74675 No.14470057
>mfw always thought it was called baiten katos
c1a9d6 No.14470105
>>14447245
You put your memory card in it
aefb8e No.14470241
>>14470105
I think he means the four things along the edge, right to the memcard slot.
934b4a No.14471646
>>14469639
That lava looks like it would be tasty jelly
44eb4b No.14471809
>>14419070
> Eternal Wings has that one bossfight which doesn't allow for grinding if you show up unprepared.
That fucking boss. I spent hours trying to figure out a way to actually beat them with what I was stuck with. I really need to actually play through the whole game at some point.
93019e No.14471859
>>14419222
>The only way you'd consider Origins inferior to Eternal Wings is that you have a fixed team of three characters, and it's kind of ridiculously punishing at times.
The changes they made to the combat system and deckbuilding in general sucked dick in Origins.
6e7aa7 No.14471864
Is there any fan patches that fix all of NOA's retarded changes?
aefb8e No.14472854
>>14471859
They were different, but I don't agree they were bad in any way.
720e92 No.14472959
>>14472854
Not him, but I really disliked the battle system in Orgins. I didn't even get more than 4 hours into the game because of it. Just the fact that there was one deck for your whole cast was really off putting by itself. One of my favorite parts about Eternal Wings was having to artistically manage all of the decks.
Also, in combat just seemed far simpler. If I remember correctly it was just counting to up from 1. By the end of Eternal Wings you had to have all of your decks memorized (including all of the numbers on the cards), keep track of what cards are in your deck, keep track of elements, while making straits/pairs with numbers rotating around the cards with only a couple of seconds to make decisions.
c56701 No.14472962
>>14471864
>Is there any fan patches that fix all of NOA's retarded changes?
Not that I'm aware of. Also, while Origins was published by NoA here in the west (rather than Namco as Eternal Wings was), the group responsible for the English version was 8-4. I'd say the bigger question is which one had the idea to censor one of the tracks and remove the gender select for the player spirit, but 8-4 has apparently gone on record as saying Origins was one of their favorite games to handle because they got full control of the western release, so maybe NoA didn't care enough about the game themselves to have any direct input on the version's content. Not that that excuses NoA and their general trends towards censorship, content removal and memery; just that it's wise to be aware of who gets hired for what, as not every western branch/company does their own scripts/debugging.
e5983d No.14472982
I bought and played Baten Kaitos on release. I hated it, I stopped playing when a certain TWIST happens mid game
I didn't like it and even at the time there were some who loved it as a cult classic, but I did not
720e92 No.14472989
>>14472982
> I stopped playing when a certain TWIST happens mid game
The thing is, those twists just keep happening. The whole plot of the game is a train wreck in the best possible way.
e5983d No.14473010
>>14472989
it wasn't the twist that turned me off, I just didn't enjoy playing the game, can't remember why, it was years ago
023b5f No.14476793
>>14476054
TL;DR: Origins has less deck-building complexity, but more "in the moment" complexity. I agree with you, the combat in Origins feels more polished and flows more naturally.
720e92 No.14477192
>>14476054
>You have little control during the actual battle
>>14476793
>but more "in the moment" complexity
I'm guessing neither of you have played very much poker. Late game eternal wings had an insane amount of complexity for how little time you had to make decisions. It's true that optimal play wasn't really necessary, but that doesn't stop you from trying. Maybe if it had difficulty settings it would have been more obvious what the skill peaks in the game were like.
>Not everyone can grasp the gameplay elements and make proper use of them, which is why some people struggle with this game.
>it's harder to understand and easier to give up on.
Maybe the game gets harder the longer you go, but I wasn't having any trouble with the battles. I was mostly just bored with the story.
aefb8e No.14486060
>>14477192
>Huge wall of text proving how you're wrong
>O-one meme arrow will work just fine
720e92 No.14486296
>>14486060
I was replying to both people at once. I read the wall text and it just seemed like a condescending reddit post. It didn't help that it was playing up the complexity of Orgins while playing down the complexity of EW.
c82b3f No.14502170
>>14419070
>Eternal Wings has that one bossfight which doesn't allow for grinding if you show up unprepared.
Playing through Origins and the Holoholo bird is way fucking worse than team Giacomo.
>Hey, go to Anuenue
>Sure
>Disc change out of nowhere
>Instead of any other new island in the game, you crash land
>There's a red save flower
>Soon as you take a step you get bitch-slapped with one cancerous motherfucker of a boss which has infinitely respawning little shits which both hit for a sizeable amount of damage heal the main boss significantly
>If that save flower was your only save you're pretty much stuck, no way out
185eaa No.14502591
>>14456603
>buddy puts in SHITHEAD for the name thinking he's funny (we were young)
>doesn't realize he's naming himself, not the MC
>characters spend the rest of the game talking down to him
What do you think we should do, SHITHEAD?
c82b3f No.14513159
>>14502591
That would make the whole Kalas arc especially confusing.
ab0c5f No.14513769
>>14502170
>If that save flower was your only save you're pretty much stuck, no way out
There's one way out: you painstakingly refine a strategy after a several dozen game overs across a weeks' time, until through some stroke of luck or mercy from the AI, you come out on top.
If it weren't for the inability to get more magnus or grind a level or two, I think I would've really enjoyed that fight with much less frustration.
Also,
>team Giacomo
WAAAARRG LAAAAYYYZEEEERR!!!
3a4f4b No.14513926
Verus fucked this disgusting fat slob in the asshole. Did tumblr infiltrate Monolith long ago or what?
fe95cd No.14518415
>>14421648
>>14419307
did you niggers forget about Lyude only having light and dark weapons? this is arguably worse for many reasons:
>dark is INCREDIBLY outclassed by light at almost all stages of the game
>his light weapons aren't even as good as Xelha's
>Lyude is terrible at making you money because his weapons always fuck with the camera lighting, not that this matters at end game but it's still annoying
at least water and fire share fairly equal weakness distributions among bosses, unlike light and dark where there's like 2 bosses weak to dark, i think the tree guardian and the boss at the end of disc 1. maybe one of the end magnus bosses too but i cant remember, also who cares cause way more of them are weak to light. not worth switching your deck over, just switch characters
he's also just not very good until you get the three spirit number weapons, and by the end of the game the only thing hes good for really is neutral power, and even then kalas and gibari are also good at it. lyudes definitely a "near the end of disc 1 to mid disc 2" type of dude until he gets outclassed by everyone else except mizuti, who is terrible at every stage of the game
but god damn i love lyude, there is something inherently awesome about blasting monsters with a trumpet
587f09 No.14520310
>>14513926
On the contrary, Geldoblame as well as Melodia is tumblr the villain, Monolith tried to warn us.