/v/ - Video Games

>ASCII character display

Speaking of, are there any more games I should play that have ASCII graphics? The only ones I have tried are ZZT and Nethack.

>>14259908

OP, you got to explain why this shit is important in the first place.

Roguelike is a shit genre. This is why everybody who dealt with it made changes to it to make it at least somewhat fun.

Gameplay.

Any Rougelike should have similar gameplay to rogue.

If I am wrong, I will just not care. Only reason genres exist for in gaming is to find games that are similar to each other to give me more stuff to play.

Semantics? Sure.

Farming vs. Grinding. Both apply to video games almost exactly the same as they apply to real life.

Grinding is slow, consistent progress towards a goal. WoW nerds will immediately think of grinding honor or valor points.

Farming is the alternative, where you go from not having something to having something in a single step. Since the new Monster Hunter just came out, I'll use it, since it's the perfect example. You don't grind monsters, you farm them for the pieces you need to make gear. You don't make slow, measured progress, you go from not having parts to having parts in a step that consists of killing a monster.

For the math inclined, this is the difference between continuous (grinding) and discrete (farming).

>>14259930

It became much less dull and much more important to me when I started seeing people right here on /v/ referring to framerate drops as lag or saying capitalism means an economy that uses a currency rather than a barter system. Like you said, there's a huge problem with miscommunication when people get used to using words the wrong way out of ignorance. It just gets worse when other people defend it and even try to shame you by calling you autistic or a gammar nazi if you try to correct them.

>>14259973

You don't make a thread about the semantics of a genre without explaining why the genre or definition of said genre is important. People always complain about the berlin interpretation and otherwise shit on the roguelike genre because they don't understand the point to it all. It's not for my sake, it's for the sake of a thread. If you're going to make a thread, you shouldn't half-ass it.

Roguelike is a very important word, used to warn people that a game isn't fun. Warning signs aren't meant to be overly specific.

For a REEEEEEE to REEEEEEE in needs to be REEEEEE, I hate all these new games that don't even have REEEEEEE graphics, why won't kids respect their dad and play some proper REEEEEEEEEE likes.

OP is right. But he is outnumbered. Studios will keep labelling their games as whatever genre they think will move it off the shelves. Every top-down shovelware dungeon crawler on mobile will be called a roguelike and idiots who never actually plaued a roguelike will believe this is what they are playing. Same way every idiot who can't into actual RPGs, but who has played through Witcher 3 and Skyrim, considers himself an RPG fan.

>>14260765

Make up should be outlawed..

>>14260788

It is in mudslime shitholes

>>14260848

That means fuck all if they hide their faces with a cloth instead of paint

Overwatch is my favorite shoot 'em up

>>14259908

no you are wrong.

For a post to have doubles, it needs to have TWO OF THE SAME NUMBER AT THE END, meaning it has to feature most if not all of these aspects:

>it has dubs

<you check them

>>14260100

>How jews teach music .webm

Nobody will understand this but i am.

>>14260988

but seriously it really grind my gears to see dubman pointing at trips

>>14261116

dubs are a subset of trips

I just call em “Traditional Roguelikes” at this point so people know what I mean and I can talk about the fucking games.

Tired of arguing it with morons straight out of /r/roguelike.

autism

>>14260753

>brogue

>good taste

>>14259908

High value factors

Random environment generation

The game world is randomly generated in a way that increases replayability. Appearance and placement of items is random. Appearance of monsters is fixed, their placement is random. Fixed content (plots or puzzles or vaults) removes randomness.

Permadeath

You are not expected to win the game with your first character. You start over from the first level when you die. (It is possible to save games but the savefile is deleted upon loading.) The random environment makes this enjoyable rather than punishing.

Turn-based

Each command corresponds to a single action/movement. The game is not sensitive to time, you can take your time to choose your action.

Grid-based

The world is represented by a uniform grid of tiles. Monsters (and the player) take up one tile, regardless of size.

Non-modal

Movement, battle and other actions take place in the same mode. Every action should be available at any point of the game. Violations to this are ADOM's overworld or Angband's and Crawl's shops.

Complexity

The game has enough complexity to allow several solutions to common goals. This is obtained by providing enough item/monster and item/item interactions and is strongly connected to having just one mode.

Resource management

You have to manage your limited resources (e.g. food, healing potions) and find uses for the resources you receive.

Hack'n'slash

Even though there can be much more to the game, killing lots of monsters is a very important part of a roguelike. The game is player-vs-world: there are no monster/monster relations (like enmities, or diplomacy).

Exploration and discovery

The game requires careful exploration of the dungeon levels and discovery of the usage of unidentified items. This has to be done anew every time the player starts a new game.

Low value factors

Single player character

The player controls a single character. The game is player-centric, the world is viewed through that one character and that character's death is the end of the game.

Monsters are similar to players

Rules that apply to the player apply to monsters as well. They have inventories, equipment, use items, cast spells etc.

Tactical challenge

You have to learn about the tactics before you can make any significant progress. This process repeats itself, i.e. early game knowledge is not enough to beat the late game. (Due to random environments and permanent death, roguelikes are challenging to new players.) The game's focus is on providing tactical challenges (as opposed to strategically working on the big picture, or solving puzzles).

ASCII display

The traditional display for roguelikes is to represent the tiled world by ASCII characters.

Dungeons

Roguelikes contain dungeons, such as levels composed of rooms and corridors.

Numbers

The numbers used to describe the character (hit points, attributes etc.) are deliberately shown.

>>14259945

>Make CoD

>Sell it as a strategy game

That's why it's important.

>>14261342

lol a bunch of the examples are just retarded.

<your goal is to kill monsters and find powerful treasures in order to kill stronger ones and repeat the process.

The goal in Rogue is to reach the Amulet of Yendor then leave, that's all.

You forgot to mention all items and spells changing what they do every time you start a new game

>>14259935

I remember Caves of Thor being mind-blowing when I was a kid. Looking at it now, it's aged better than expected, though it doubtless looks like a cave painting to today's youth.

When it came out, some of the stuff it did was really impressive (the lava in particular still looks great considering everything in the game is done using 16 colours and the standard ASCII character set.) And the music was remarkable back before everyone had sound cards.

>>14260765

>without make-up

she is still a cute tbh

>ascii

Does it have to use the terminal/console or can you use a graphics library to render text? Either way you're blitting a collection of byte data to the screen. Thus rich tilesets or even 3D qualify as ascii in this sense.

>Turn based

Even games like Halo run at 60 30 24 "turns" per second. And all the commands are frontloaded too, such as weapon swapping and grenade throwing even if you don't have them

>>14261733

Tails is a boy anon

>>14261759

>framerate = turn based

Never post again.

>>14261768

He wasn't asking if it was a boy, he was asking if he could fuck it. And yes, yes he could.

>>14261784

Every atomic action can be reduced to a turn. In a roguelike, you take one action per turn, and you have as much time as you need to decide what to do. However some actions can take more than one turn to complete.

The fact that a game has a constant 60 turns per second that pkay out automatically doesnt disqualify it from being turn based

NetHack is good, but it some shit design choices. ADOM dev is a shit

>>14261768

Even better!

>For something to be like something else, it must be a carbon copy of that thing

Uh huh

Nevermind the fact that the berlin interpretation's been around for literally a decade and nobody cares what you think

>>14262006

it works when you're talking about games that are super similar to rogue though. how it got into the current usage where it's anything with a death mechanic i'll never know.

>>14259908

The name of the genre doesn't actually matter, what matters is having a full definition of what gameplay elements are essential, highly required, irrelevant etc to be a game in that genre.

>>14259908

Also requiring ASCII characters is dumb, gameplaywise there is no difference if you just happen to use graphical tiles.

>>14259908

I agree with you, with the exception of no graphics and keyboard based controls, both of those change nothing in the actual mechanics of the game and shouldn't matter as long as the top view is kept and the vast array of commands still exist.

>>14261342

You are not on reddit, stop spacing shit like a retard, and learn to use green/pink text if you desire to not be called a idiot in the future.

>ASCII character display

<games use no graphic tiles or 3D models but rather a two-dimensional character grid viewed from above, in which each character represents an entity.

Don't be retarded, having nicer graphics isn't going to change shit

>Keyboard based interaction

<The keyboard is the traditional way to interact with the game world, as it provides the quickest way to access the several commands that a Roguelike may have.

Another retarded limitation, specially for a turn based videogame.

I agree with the rest of them.

>>14262193

>Another retarded limitation, specially for a turn based videogame.

It depends on how many actions that are in the game. Typically rouge likes have a lot of actions, sure you may get by with nation menu but it would be fuck huge in a game like cataclysm.

>>14262193

It seems like an odd qualification, but I can't imagine playing roguelikes on anything but a keyboard. There's usually far too many commands for a controller to be reasonable. It's less a requirement and more a derived necessity.

That said some of the big roguelikes let you use the mouse as well.