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File: 003f723656130f5⋯.png (131.38 KB, 350x424, 175:212, elerya-spells.png)

ca08a7 No.14259344

You know how in most RPGs, you get skills or spells, then get newer, more powerful ones that totally outclass them? Think Final Fantasy where you usually never touch Fire after getting Firaga, and Shin Megami Tensei where you never touch Zio after getting Ziodyne.

What are games that circumvent that and give every skill and spell a useful purpose? The best I can think of are Etrian Odyssey and 7th Dragon, but both of those have their share of skills you'd never upgrade.

ca08a7 No.14259346

never upgrade, learn, or otherwise use.* My bad.


705426 No.14259362

>but both of those have their share of skills you'd never upgrade.

How many fucking spells do you want OP?

After a certain point it just gets ridiculous managing all that shit, there's a reason that a few powerful anything generally outclasses a large smattering of mediocre things and that applies to spells too


d1db3c No.14259440

If every ability is useful, then it's overly balanced. That means there's an objective choice for every situation, which means that everything more or less becomes samey.

A fun game has glaring holes that let you dance around the mechanics at your leisure


705426 No.14259480

Hooktube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.

6f75e5 No.14264171

>>14259344

never going to happen. humans are flawed, thus we will never create a perfect balance in anything.


3aae76 No.14264461

>>14264171

if humans are flawed, then it is possible to create a game that fools our perception of reality and make something that we can truly consider "perfect". Shouldn't you be getting a liberal arts degree or something?


5bf983 No.14265206

File: 41eff2a0b8b3a46⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 240.85 KB, 1200x1800, 2:3, 1200px-ToddHoward2010sm.jpg)

>>14264461

if humans are flawed, shouldn't we make a mistake and accidently create the perfect being?

>>14259344

I've got just the game for you, OP, it's called skyrim

In a way this is actually true, because beginner level spells are okay the entire game and can rack up some nice damage. The entire magic system is shit, however, so this doesn't matter.

You technically have the whole flames -> firebolt -> firebal -> BIG BOOM BOOM evolution but their damage scales and the difference is mana consumption/efficiency vs damage.


ad5df7 No.14265228

>>14264461

>>14265206

morrowind had the best spell creation system, if only there was a delete button and it didn't cost money.

It was balanced because mana was the defining factor, it was fun because everyone likes to sit there and toggle range/damage.

The only things that could've made that game better would be spells that didn't overlap and better graphics.


d1db3c No.14265240

>>14264171

If humans are flawed at creation, then we must also be flawed at perception and reasoning. Thus we might mistake a good work as perfect.


0ec05a No.14265253

File: c18abb25c402c87⋯.png (1.42 MB, 1576x1600, 197:200, c18abb25c402c87000e1597ad4….png)

>>14259344

You want an ASSFAGGOT and that is the closest you will ever get.


feec54 No.14265274

Nioh.


d1db3c No.14265316

>>14265228

I like the fair magicka regen (but slow). It would be neat if potions didn't restore magicka either and you had to either have a large pool or a smaller but regenerative pool.

I've also wondered about casting times based on skill and a few other small tweaks, like adding random effects or drawbacks to a spell to make it easier to cast


ad5df7 No.14265406

>>14265316

It would be much much funner if potions could be customized like the spell system, and if spells had a potion slot (in the sense that you drink one before every cast)

I bet alchemy would be become very very relevant if your best spells could be tweaked by a mana pool buff, damage buff, side effect buff, and mana regen buff from consumables.


98d344 No.14270071

File: ec7a5f798d29518⋯.png (322.02 KB, 790x444, 395:222, suikoden.png)

>>14259344

Suikoden, by virtue of only having 30 odd spells, 4-12 available to a character at any time depending on the character, with some of them locked spells, or just 4 per character in 1, which you should ignore for the purposes of this explanation, since Suikoden 1 was very very basic.

Fire, Water, Wind, Earth and Thunder. Each set focuses on general roles. Fire and Thunder are damage magic, Earth is support, Water is healing, and Wind is a hybrid of all of them with useful instadeath moves.

There's also, depending on the game, tertiary elements like Darkness (health absorption), Punishment (high damage and insta death but damages you), Pale/Blue Gate (Varied elements and fuckhuge damage with minor effects but can only be used by mage characters), Resurrection (Damage that does huge damage against certain enemies w/ easy healing and revival) and so on and so forth. The unique rune your character gets each game is always geared to get spells based on what would be useful at that stage in the game.

However, the game balances this out by making magic points scarce with it being anywhere from very rare to impossible to have a consumable item restore them, and when they do they tend to slap on bad status effects.

the Suikoden series has been buggy so there were exploits that weren't intended which we're going to ignore, and all the spells are designed to be overpowered since they're limited use, so if you want to make every spell useful you have two options.

1. make one spell per function, which can make your game very bare depending on your complexity

or

2. Limit your spellcasting and cut your player off from restoration of spellcasting strictly, so that earlier spells get use because it's all they have left.

Note that this only counts for pen and paper/RPG type situations, in an action game you should treat spells as functions and have upgrades replace the earlier spell as if it didn't exist, or just not change its name.

After a certain spell count, there will be useless or redundant spells. So the idea to make useful spells is to design your game around your spells/skills FIRST, and to not fuck up when you code, because THAT is when spells get useless the most.


98d344 No.14270104

>>14265206

Which ends up being a moot point because the most efficient way to play is to sling the big spells IE the Ice mist shit and the exploding fireball en mass, and to then pick up a fucking sword and swing until you can use fireballs again.

The spread spells are useless at higher levels since magic resistance increases, a single point resistance can severely dampen your starter spells.


36a6e1 No.14270120

Look at classic FPS. When you have all the guns you'll use all the guns: each gun has its time and its place except for the pistol.


2d326f No.14270136

FF2.

You never cast anything but Ultima once you pass the grind horizon, though.




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