91747a No.14208484
Why are so many people so reflexively put off by the idea of being limited by time in a videogame?
In most cases the reasons against time limits often come down to assumptions and feelings, rather than being put off because it is supposed a poor overused trend in vidya like procedural generation or regenerating health or such (since not that many games really deal with time limits in order for it to be considered an universal no-no), nor because time limits supposedly make the game worse from a design standpoint. Take Fallout, a lot of people like to bitch about how exploration is limited because you have a time restriction, but in practice you have more than enough time to fuck around multiple settlements, on top of getting several time refills once you complete a main objective. It's like people assume wasting even a little bit of time will cause severe long-term consequences including the getting a bad ending, and are put off by the idea by the stress a time limit causes, though they never test whether that is actually the case.
In Dead Rising 1, another well-known example, one of the whole points of the game is time management as the main objectives and the placements thereof have you constantly considering your route and the shit you need to take along the way, on top of having to take in consideration nighttime, which a lot of people find stressing. Without it, a lot of the game's elements start getting loose and lose their sense of purpose because they were designed with time limits in mind. However, there's absolutely nothing preventing you from just messing around the mall and letting the main objective fail, but people want to have their cake and eat it all. Pathologic is very similar when it comes to DR1's time management, though I hear much less complaints when it comes to Pathologic, and I'm not sure why.
The only times time limits seem tolerable to everyone is when they're so forgiving and in games where you have only one direction to go in (like in the Super Mario Bros. games), though it begs the question why those games even have timers. It's not like they're arcade games, where time limits are in place to prevent people from hogging the cabinets infinitely.
There's some bad cases like in XCOM 2 where the time/turn limits would force a single playstyle on you rather than let you experiment and figure out how you want to play, and I'm sure there's plenty of games which can be incredibly anal when it comes to being two seconds short of the time limit.
But what is it about them, do people just not like them because they feel it ruins the game's potential, or are they just inherently turned off by the idea of losing because you were 2 slow?
8fd791 No.14208510
>>14208484
Because the time you took to explore location you're in shouldn't be important aspect of the gameplay. Time limits are artificial restrains.
e38f59 No.14208552
>>14208484
Because mashing a button flashing on screen within 5 seconds of it appearing is a shit mechanic.
7a4cd8 No.14208587
>>14208552
Learn to read, nigger.
>>14208484
I think time limits are good to create a slight sense of pressure, but there's a sweet spot that most games fail to reach.
If it's too long it feels pointless.
And if it's too short it becomes frustating.
e38f59 No.14208600
>>14208587
>do X action in Y time or fail
Learn to recognise connections between parallels, nigger.
91747a No.14208634
>>14208510
They can be hardly considered not part of the gameplay when you consider that you have to take into consideration elements into decision-making like planning, resource management, and making bargains for more time if possible. Often the maximum amount of decisions you can make or locations you can visit are limited as a result, forcing you to choose one of the two, which usually isn't a problem if the game is designed around replayability. It becomes a game of what can I do and what will I prioritize and what spare time can I afford to explore and do my own thing. Take Pathologic. Suppose that time only moves when you go to sleep and/or that times moves on a realistic 24-hour timescale rather than an accelerated one, so basically The Elder Scrolls. If that were the case, you would be able to accomplish every possible objective in a day and then some within 1-3 hours. You would be able to all the stores in time before the prices start changing, and basically you'd run out of things to do per day because it's kind of unrealistic to expect one day can hold enough content from 7 AM to 12 PM without it feeling overly condensed beyond logic unless you're expected to constantly skip time. This only works because the game world in Pathologic is a small one as opposed to most open world games, but if you'd remove the passing of time, the game would just fall apart in more ways than one.
And for Fallout it's not the time you waste during exploration that's a concern. When you're entering a settlement or any kind of zone, time passes using a regular 24-hour timescale. Your initial objective gives you 150 days, which should give you way more than enough time to explore a single zone. However, a majority of time is spent when you travel between zones using the overworld where time is accelerated in order to simulate you traveling large distances. Rather than having to worry about the time you spend exploring individual instances, you need to plan ahead to which zones you will be going in the first place. The time limit here affects how you have to plan your route through the wasteland, rather than finitely restricting the amount of decisions you can make.
Moreover, the narrative would also lose any sense of urgency when it would be trying to set up a very immediate and encroaching threat but in reality you could just do whatever the fuck you want in the game world where nothing will move on its own accord, making the whole situation feel fake and unbelievable.
>>14208552
I'm talking about larger overarching time limits, not QTEs.
6d3832 No.14208649
The problem with time limits is that you have no idea how long something is going to take. It's not "Oh hey, I have a 3 minute time limit but I can beat this level in a minute and a half". It'd "Holy shit I only have three minutes, I should just rush to the end." Time limits are the epitome of the developer saying "Don't play this the way you want to. Play this the way I want you to."
e38f59 No.14208731
>>14208634
You're talking about being limited by time in games.
Unless you're just fucking stupid and you don't even know how to express your own thread topic, QTEs are a time limiting nessessitative action.
Just because the scale is shorter doesn't mean it's not the same shit.
80026c No.14208764
>>14208484
Because actual purpose of the game is not to reach end of the stage/quest/game. It is low value token. Purpose of the game is the processes of playing itself. Artificially limiting time player exists in this state is limiting gaming as an idea.
9f4379 No.14208765
>>14208731
>Just because the scale is shorter doesn't mean it's not the same shit.
Do you say that to feel better about your dick?
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
7a4cd8 No.14208785
>>14208600
>Merely pretending
QTEs and timers only share the time limit.
They are functionally different.
QTEs are a shit mechanic because they fail to create a sense of urgency and end up like pointless filler.
Time limits can be executed right.
Just admit you're retarded and didn't even read the thread.
f0143d No.14208788
Time limits for whole game usually suck, unless it's something where you don't do much exploration. But timed sections can be great.
38e981 No.14208803
Its one of those things that can frustrate everyone
Like if you end up with a save file that ends up in a "dead end" in an RPG, if you end up with a shitty save file with not enough time to do what you want in a timed game (even more so if it uses autosave) then you're basically fucked
e38f59 No.14208807
>>14208785
>I'm too stupid to understand simple things
>just admit I'm right
>>14208765
<SHIDBOAST :DD
OP is a fag for not specifying what he actually meant.
bd0db6 No.14208836
>>14208807
>OP is a fag for not specifying what he actually meant.
He gave two concrete examples and explained what he was talking about in detail you dense cunt
e38f59 No.14208864
>>14208836
Except he didn't. If I made a thread about clustered user interfaces in video games and gave examples about inventory menus, why should I get mad when someone starts talking about uncluttered HUD elements when they're both UI elements?
91747a No.14208870
>>14208731
>Just because the scale is shorter doesn't mean it's not the same shit.
Instead of posting this, you could have instead made your case on why the general implementation of QTEs in games is identical enough to the aforementioned examples of overarching time limits in games mentioned in the OP and why they deserve to be brought up in this topic for non-superficial reasons. Or what makes the limited amount of time you have to react in a QTE different from reacting to a normal attack. Other than that, pay attention to context and what people are actually talking about in this thread. If you're only going to argue semantics here just so you can be right on the internet, do everyone a favor here and stop wasting our time.
>>14208649
That's a valid viewpoint to take, and I'm sure you could be informed beforehand to all the possible decisions you could make and the time it would cost, though that wouldn't really allow you to spend time in exploring the unknown as in Fallout (you could, but it would be unsafe and may not guarantee returns, though for that matter you don't have to explore the overworld in Fallout either). The trade-off you make when you spend time exploring rather than completing the main objective could be made immediately obvious, which is why you don't hear people complaining about it in Pathologic as much.
25a5b7 No.14208888
>>14208510
hear that everyone? majoras mask isn't fun because the time limit is an "artificial restraint"
7a4cd8 No.14208936
>>14208807
>OP is a fag for not specifying what he meant
More evidence to you being an illiterate nigger.
If you had read the OP you'd notice that QTE's are never mentioned.
>>I'm too stupid to understand simple concepts.
I understand your shitty comparison between time limits and QTEs, but as I wrote, it's wrong.
ecf672 No.14208949
>mandatory level has time limit
>it's three times longer than it needs to be
>optional level has time limit
>it's three times shorter than it needs to be
cfd234 No.14208950
>>14208888
Majora’s Mask is shit just like every Zelda game.
17b3fb No.14208958
>>14208888
You're right. I'm glad we agree.
a0416e No.14208968
>time limits are artificial restraints
>playing the new simulationist open world living world rpg
>love how realistic it is
>love that my choices matter
>get quest to help someone who's been bitten by a rare snake
>have to get the antidote before the poison kills them
> other npc tells me that the poison is usually lethal within two days
>go off to get the antidote
> complete a few other quests along the way
>join a couple factions
>spend some time in new cities I found, sleep a night in each inn, ti get that rested xp bonus
> take the scenic route to explore some more
>get the antidote
> do the same on the way back
> character has died
>wow so deep
> but the other npc is mad at me
> says I took too long
>kicks me out of his house
> can't access his other quests
> text pops up that says "quest failed" (!? Everyone knows you can't fail quests)
> don't get any xp
>look it up and apparently the character isn't supposed to die
> if you complete the quest in two days in game then you complete the quest and she lives
> The game arbitrarily decided that snake venom kills people and put me on an arbitrary timer to prevent it
I mean what the fuck? I mean videogames are just games not simulations, there's literally no reason to do this. Everyone knows that the actions that are supposed to have consequences are dialogue options. I mean what good is a realistic living world of it doesn't put itself on hold for you whenever you get distracted?
662b86 No.14208971
>>14208484
It instantly makes the game provoke anxiety instead of being fun and relaxing
4c1899 No.14209027
>>14208971
If you want relaxing go play animal crossing. Games should be challenging not "I need your help hero." "Oh you want to go explore the ten million caves with nothing in them?" "Ok that's ok the demon lord will wait for you to finish wasting time before he destroys the world."
f55309 No.14209033
Because it reminds people that their own real life has a time limit?
e7e257 No.14209042
>>14208764
What a gaming journalist quote. You're right, the purpose of the game is the process of playing itself, in this case you have to manage your timing and planning.
669953 No.14209063
>>14208484
because the game and ur mom are my bitches, and not the other way around.
bfc3a0 No.14209079
The problem with time limits is that they force you to have extensive knowledge of the game beforehand. Something that nobody has on their very 1st playthrough of the game.
Once you know where everything is and where you're supposed to go [knowledge gained after multiple playthroughs], of course it becomes easier by then.
I use to be freaked out by Majora's Mask's underlying time-based pressure in my first playthroughs of that game, but now that I know it by heart, the time limit isn't so much of a problem anymore.
d2d09b No.14209083
>>14208484
It depends on the game.
In the original super mario brothers it makes an otherwise easy and boring game have a proper objective which is getting the highest score, in some other games that I can't be assed to remember because I haven't played anything with a time limit in 20 years it means you can't fuck around and have fun because you have to rush to the end.
01c412 No.14209091
>>14208484
>Why are so many people so reflexively put off by the idea of being limited by time in a videogame?
Because they get the idea in their head that they are actually good at a game, then when the time limit kicks in, the realization that they are actually fucking awful at said game hits them hard and special snowflakes don't like that at all. Retards do not like being interrupted when sniffing their own farts.
5f46ac No.14209093
>>14208864
>If I make a thread about apples why should I get mad when someone starts talking about oranges when they're both fruits?
You truly are a stupid nigger.
Yes, they may be similar, but not the same, and this thread is not about QTEs.
Faggot
7e67cf No.14209194
>You should have an unlimited amount of time to perform a surgery in Trauma center, because it is just artificial difficulty that there would be a time limit for me to suture a wound
6cfd94 No.14209223
>>14209079
MM isn't that bad because it lets you keep a lot of your progress between the three-day cycles, but the limit is the reason why I still prefer OoT
fffa5c No.14209224
I never originally liked the time limit in Pikmin, but after playing the game extensively I finally concluded that it's an essential element of the game's replayability and is (one of the reasons) why Pikmin 2 is the worst game in the series.
fffa5c No.14209230
>>14209079
The problem with Majora's Mask wasn't the time limit itself. It was the shitty saving mechanics that could screw you over if you weren't sure how long a task might take.
d2d09b No.14209242
>>14209194
How about you go get your head amptutated?
ec5898 No.14209243
>>14208484
Depends on the game, how it is done, and how well it is communicated to the player. Some games communicate time limits but don't have them, see RPGs where you are on a race to save the world but have time to save some kid from orcs on the way. In a game that is heavily into exploration, or rewards the player for taking the time to smell the roses, it comes off as aggravating, more so if there are completely pointless paths or the game puts you into a position where your next step isn't clear. It isn't bad in WotS4 since the idea with that game is to repeat the same days over and over again, and decisions in previous sets of days carry over to the next.
I like soft time limits like in Otogi, where your character is slowly drained of magic until they start losing health turning back into ash if they don't kill enemies and consume their souls. That was also one of the reasons the boss fights felt better; unfortunately, it also made magic usage a bit stupid unless you built specifically for it and used it well.
c783a3 No.14209270
>>14208484
because they're faggots who cannot handle challenge or comprehend game design
cdd3e7 No.14209291
>>14208484
>Why are so many people so reflexively put off by the idea of being limited by time in a videogame?
Because the objective is retarded and has no connection to the time limit itself.
Unlike good games like the early Tony Hawk Pro Skaters.
314420 No.14209310
>>14208649
>you have no idea how long something is going to take
This, games vary greatly and so do time-limits. it's frustrating when you rush through only to find yourself with a lot, like a fucking LOT of time left because the devs made it so easy even a braindead moran can get through.
Or the limits so severe even the slightest fuck-up will mean you have to start over again but no way to know for sure which it is so you just rush through.
01c412 No.14209327
>>14208649
>"Don't play this the way you want to. Play this the way I want you to."
hurr durr I want to win this bossfight by running up to it and mashing attack but it doesn't work. Fucking devs making me actually have to think, what shitty game design.
e7e257 No.14209375
>>14208649
>"Don't play this the way you want to. Play this the way I want you to."
It turns out not every game has to be an open-ended sandbox.
6d3832 No.14209377
>>14209327
Other way around. The devs are slapping you on the wrist and saying "No, you have to run up to it and mash attack or else the timer is going to run out".
01c412 No.14209408
>>14209377
Then the bossfight is shit, not the time limit.
2eb11d No.14209424
>>14208888
Majora's Mask isn't fun. Prove me wrong.
dce0bd No.14209426
>>14209377
If the timer is for certain events/missions then it's alright and fun. If it's constantly then it gets kinda annoying.
2eb11d No.14209444
>>14208968
dsp is one of the biggest lolcows on the internet
may he never run dry
28def9 No.14209448
>>14208484
Time limits don't need to be horrendous by default, but many times they're implemented in a shitty manner.
the worst example of this off the top of my head was XCOM 2 (not a real time example but still applies). Those timer missions were so ridiculously fucking stupid. In the first game it was no big deal because you only had to deal with them here and there and you were stopping a bomb threat or whatever it was; still tedious and still forced you to make mistakes which was gay, but XCOM 2 was massively retarded about it. Those missions would pop up constantly, where it was 50% of the missions you did had a timer; said timers were a horribly low number which essentially forced you to rush; and said rushing went against the core of the very game design decisions of what XCOM is meant to be. It's like if someone took Broodwar and suddenly made some missions turn based. You would say "what the fucking fuck, this is the exact opposite of the point of the game." That's what timer missions were in XCOM 2. Unsurprisingly, one of the most popular modifications immediately after release was a mod to utterly eliminate them, or modify said timers to your own tastes (like the timer wouldn't start until your troops got spotted, which incentivized scouting and good tactical maneuvering).
91747a No.14209469
>>14209377
Ys Seven had these kind of little moments during boss fights where a boss would charge up a powerful attack and you'd have to deal a certain amount of damage in a limited amount of time which then stuns him and prevents him boss from doing his super attack. Most bosses would have one, but it wasn't something you saw all the time.
The way you put it implies that because of the time limit attacking the boss is the only option, but in most such games with boss fights (usually action games), attacking is the only option to begin with, so the question becomes how to kill the boss quicker before time runs out, which is a whole other question good games have a good answer for. In this case time limits are there to punish slow and careful players who take potshots and are always turtling, while encouraging aggression and taking more risks, which IMO is a good thing.
403a7e No.14209491
because i want to be able to have fun in the game and do things and tackle missions the way i want to tackle them.
making a game timed immediately limits what is considered viable, and causes you to play the game by it's "meta" to do it most efficiently. its anti-fun.
if i want to spend an hour doing something autistically inefficient just to see if it can be done, that's my business and i dont need a clock to limit this. timed gameplay is a hold over from arcades and if it's used, its either to just build suspence in a cheap way, or a shortcut to help add challenge to a game with bad game design. you can get the same "rushed" effect in different ways for example the scrolling levels in super mario, or having a clock count up and reward people for getting better times, or having certain options expire over time, or the challenge of "timed platforms"
just putting a flat time limit is a lazy way to add challenge that removes fun. at the very least it should be an option.
5c8641 No.14209510
>>14209491
>I want to be able to have fun in the game and do things
Egregious!
403a7e No.14209566
>>14208888
it's literally the reason i couldnt get into the game. and i was able to get over the fact that it looks like an OOT mod.
>>14209510
the most fun i had in halo was trying to get vehicles beyond where the game wants you to have them. if mario64 had a time limit, there would be no pannen videos.
2f1971 No.14209726
time limits can suck my ass tbh
f9511b No.14209931
I like soft time limits, where the game gets harder and harder if you take too long. I can't think of any examples though aside from Spelunky and that one 3D snake game where the darkness would swallow the level if you took too long.
a53198 No.14209944
>>14208484
I was disturbed by time limits at first, too, until I just had completed enough levels with these, also finishing Fallout 1 and Majora Mask helped, too.
Basically, if you don't like time limits in games you either continue being pathetic cowardly casualnigger loser or
GIT GUD
3309ae No.14210037
>>14208484
>Why are so many people so reflexively put off by the idea of being limited by time in a videogame?
Cowardice.
ae396b No.14210136
I like time limits for giving a sense of urgency, because when everything is completely up to me in a game, it can sometimes feel weak and aimless. Especially if the game is mainly a bunch of little quests for you to do at your leisure, it ends up feeling like I'm just going down a checklist.
>>14209931
>Soft time limits
My favorite is when a big fuckoff enemy spawns that you can't kill, and it's possible to avoid him but really risky.
e4da75 No.14210596
>>14208888
Majora's Mask isn't fun. Only a nintoddler could imply otherwise.
f61b0c No.14210634
>>14208888
I like to explore in Zelda and Majora's Mask strongly discourages that. If I explore too much, I might have to redo a significant portion of the game. Or if I don't complete an entire area in one go I might have to go back and waste my time beating a boss again just to do one tiny thing. It kills exploration, the key to the whole series, and is therefore the worst non CDi Zelda game.
I like when games have time trials and stuff, a lot of times, at least in well designed games, playing the level as fast as possible can reveal to you many intricacies that you wouldn't otherwise notice. Crash 1 is a game where I gained a new appreciation for the level designed when I was going for the Platinums in the remake and saw just how precise all the distances and timings were. I beat the game a dozen times before that but never noticed just how great the level design was until I practiced to go as fast as possible. But I still also want to take my time and explore as much as I can first.
bf0b06 No.14213878
Time limits are only okay in mostly linear level-based games, and even then they can be annoying as fuck
Getting a game over or a worse score or whatever else because you wanted to explore is fucking annoying at best, and having one big one hanging over the entire fucking game just compounds that
Also you niggers are dumb for arguing about majora's mask, that time limit isn't an actual time limit, you can keep going for as long as you fucking want, it's not there to hang over your head and stress you out about not potentially not finishing the game in time, it's a major part of the atmosphere, as well as literally the only reason the core appeal of the game(a living world) can work
e5223a No.14213894
>>14209426
what the fuck. Of course that's french.
3caea2 No.14213912
>>14208888
Great digits, but I don't think anyone liked Majora's Mask, and the time limit is always the reason.
9c0a6b No.14213970
>>14208484
I'm kinda apathetic to short time limits that only last for like a minute or so, but when it's part of the game as a whole I fucking love it
9096c8 No.14214019
>>14208484
The more complex the game the less it has an actual purpose and the more it's meant as a cheap way to create difficulty / playtime (depends on a few other factors like how generous it is and if you can reset it by doing something specific and how hard it is to do that specific thing)
Anyone complaining about timers in arcade like games is a fag and shouldn't be allowed near anything that can play videogames, pic related
5a9a16 No.14214077
Because people want to actually explore the worlds and time limits force you to just rush. As someone else already pointed out, you have no idea how much time you will need to do something so you always have to rush. If someone tells you that you have two minutes to peel an orange, you know exactly what your task is and can make an estimate for how fast you need to progress. If it's shit game design like "you have to beat this level in five minutes", or even worse "you have to beat the game in x hours", you have absolutely no idea how fast you need to progress unless you've already played the game. Does it seem like the time limit is really lenient? You still have to rush because you just know there's probably going to be a boss or more showing up right in front of the goal.
If you can't understand why people might want to actually explore the cool world they've been dropped in, especially after decades of being conditioned to carefully look around everywhere for secrets, you might just have be mentally challenged. There's also that people play games to relax, and there is no human on Earth that doesn't react to being put on a strict timer. Even a hard game can be relaxing, but not if you're told that you have to rush through the game without being allowed to stop and smell the roses. tl;dr your question is fucking stupid and people play games to have fun. Now before you start screaming about casuals, there's a difference between good difficulty and bad difficulty. You could make a game where your save file is deleted and creating another is put on a five hour timer if you step on completely unmarked tiles on the overworld. Yeah, that would make the game harder to complete, but it's also a fucking stupid idea.
92d3b7 No.14214189
>>14208484
Time limits are fine if the game is designed correctly with the concept in mind.
Most of the time time limits ended up being more of a psychological thing anyway.
>>14209079
>The problem with time limits is that they force you to have extensive knowledge of the game beforehand. Something that nobody has on their very 1st playthrough of the game.
Do you mean every game with them or just MM?
e7a1d4 No.14214466
Dead Rising was designed around the time limit. If it wasn't there, you could just do everything and see everything in one playthrough. No mad rushing to try and save a survivor before the next case, no planning. Dead Rising is so satisfying when you can do all the survivors and cases in one playthrough because you had to play it enough to manage all the time constraints.
8032e9 No.14214529
>>14208864
You truly are the king of all niggers as he gave your dumbass a basic hooked on phonics reference for you to understand and still you can't get it. Vid Related.
>>14208484
It all comes down to how it's done as there's the basic timer Super Mario Style. The timed quest in which you need to complete it within a certain amount of days and the pop quiz time limit if you gotta eliminate, escape or survive said area or target within a certain time. Some can be a complete ass and seriously dick you and some can do it just right. It all comes down to how the developer comes onto adding it into their game.
6a3e84 No.14214953
Because I don't play game to be stressed out, quite the opposite.
People who appreciate time limits in games are usually kids and neets, who don't have much time limits in real life.
4bcf7b No.14214995
In roguelikes, hunger acts as a time limit. If you don't explore more, you won't find food. It sucks when you have no food and low hp and would rather wait for awhile before entering a room with hordes of monsters.
0dc677 No.14215100
>>14214995
In some of them you can play as an undead or a golem too, diminishing your hunger or eliminating it outright. Other choices include equipment like rings of slow digestion, the cooking skill, gardening and picking the right herbs, sometimes knowing the right alchemy recipe can also be of help. The case of ADoM with a fixed food shop in the first village and other food vendors later is the easiest, but the actual time limit there is the growing level of background corruption in the overworld.
5fceaa No.14215110
>>14214529
Holy shit, is Nama-sensei back at it?
810a20 No.14215125
>>14215110
>post one of the most used clips from Nama-sensei for the last few years
>is he back at it?
5fceaa No.14215135
>>14215125
Oh shit, I thought all he ever did was the hiragana videos. I got things to watch now.
e44338 No.14215152
People don't like time limits because they would much rather fuck about and never get penalized or forced to perform better in a game.
Time limits as a mechanic are a funnel that challenges slow and methodical playstyles and faster players alike.
The time limit in the board game perfection is what separates the game from a shape puzzle you would give a baby from something that actually forces you to improve your shape recognition and even develop a strategy for future playthroughs. The risk of everything you've worked for going to shit is the pressure that drives improvement.
c65a63 No.14215265
Stages that you are free to explore as much as you like with no time limit. Objectives within the map with tight time limits to test your skill.
a8e65b No.14215300
Time limits can be alright since they have the player make meaningful decisions on how to spend their time ingame. However, gaming is mainly an escapist hobby and many people want to relax and enjoy games at their own pace when playing instead of dealing with the stress of being on a clock