[–]▶ No.958984>>959005 >>959041 >>959064 >>959539 >>960976 >>962244 >>974890 >>977445 >>977459 >>979084 >>984168 >>1006591 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Why go through all of the headache of configuration? Is it actually worth it? Linux from Scratch seems more educational and meaningful to me.
▶ No.958996>>972807
arch is lame and poser but gentoo is actually the best distro by far if you know or want to know how it works.
▶ No.959001>>959008
Use OpenBSD if you want sane defaults and a complete system, but still get street cred.
▶ No.959005>>959032 >>974891 >>978896 >>984025 >>984127
>>958984 (OP)
Because they're good distros for building up your own personalized OS. Arch is better because it does that while remaining actually viable for daily use. Gentoo is poser cancer for people who only have it installed to brag about since it's actually an awful practical use distro.
▶ No.959008>>959011 >>959038 >>959280 >>959302 >>959354 >>974915 >>975097
>>959001
OpenBSD is a meme
>Filesystem
SSD TRIM is vital to supporting SSDs, as without it, they degrade quickly due to unnecessary reads and writes. Sadly, OpenBSD has decided not to support this.
OpenBSD also does not offer a modern filesystem option. You simply get the very old BSD "Fast File System" or FFS.
Why is this important? Because when most people think of a secure system, they think of being resistant to evil hackers breaking into it. But that's only one part of security. InfoSec can be generally split up into three components: Confidentiality, Integrity, and Availability.
In this triad, availability seems to be the one that's lacking here. Who cares how hack-resistant your system is if the data you're protecting is corrupted?
That's not even getting into the volume management stuff that's missing, and the snapshots, and the everything.
"b-b-but MUH BACKUPS!!"
What are you even saying? That bitrot all of a sudden doesn't exist anymore? That backups are the one and only thing you should do and should not be supplemented by a more stable filesystem?
You do realize that if the filesystem is not secure and does not protect against bitrot and corruption, your precious backups are going to be fucked, because you'll be backing up corrupted data. Who even knows how far you'll have to roll back in order to get to a clean state?
"ZFS is one big thing! Very not-Unix! Just combine tools, bro"
OpenBSD doesn't have logical volume management either. Even if it did, FFS doesn't have the checksumming, bitrot protection, etc. Even if it did, OpenBSD softraid doesn't support as many RAID levels as other operating systems' solutions. It's just a worse deal all around.
>Security
"Only two remote holes in the default install!!!!!!!"
Yay!
I hope you realize that this literally only applies to a base system install with absolutely no packages added. In other words, not exactly representative or meaningful towards... anything really.
OpenBSD also does not have NFSv4 support even 18 years after its standardization. This is an issue security-wise because version 4 is the only one to offer authentication with Kerberos plus encryption with the krb5p option.
A common retort to this argument is that the NFSv4 protocol is "bloated", and that's why OpenBSD doesn't support it. Going off this, the OpenBSD project seems to think that authentication and encryption are bloat. Take a moment to consider that. It's certainly a very strange stance indeed, for such a "security-focused" operating system.
Let's of course not forget that OpenBSD lacks a Mandatory Access Control solution such as SELinux, AppArmor, or TrustedBSD, which provide benefits that are relevant to companies, organizations, and governments looking to better secure their systems and classified data.
>Sustainability
A few years ago, OpenBSD was actually in danger of shutting down because they couldn't keep the fucking lights on. How could anyone see this as a system they could rely on, when it could be in danger of ending at any time?
"but it's open source! Someone could just fork it"
Oh yeah because surely they'll be able to maintain the entire OS
Actually now that I think about it, that really depends on the person/organization that does it. And they might actually have some sense and be able to fix some of the issues listed here.
It's official. OpenBSD would be better off if it shut down and was restarted.
>C Standards-compliance
"B-But OpenBSD is written in strictly standards-compliant C! Clearly that's better than muh GNU virus!"
So you're not allowed to create extensions to the standard? You should only implement the standard and nothing more? Keep in mind that this is nothing like EEE, as the GNU C extensions are Free Software, with freely available source code, as opposed to proprietary shite. People should be allowed to innovate and improve things.
If you're gonna be anal about standards-compliance, then why let people make their own implementations anyway? Why not have the standards organizations make one C implementation and force everyone to use it?
>Miscellaneous
OpenBSD's pf has inferior performance, as it only utilizes one core of one processor. GNU/Linux's netfilter firewall does not have this problem. Neither does pfsense.
▶ No.959011>>959073 >>960976
>>959008
what about freebsd
▶ No.959032>>959074 >>959658 >>972627 >>984168
>>959005
>Arch
>for building your own personalized OS
If personalization means using a color theme to you. Enjoy your forced dbus/systemd/polkit/gtk3 cancer.
▶ No.959035>>959040 >>959072 >>962235 >>972513
I run Gentoo on everything I can. You get a completely custom system. During install, you just select a profile from the terminal and then edit some text files with use flags and you do some compiling.
It's actually quite nice. It can also be substantially faster than Windows, or even binary Linux distros. Part of what makes x86 fast is new instructions. When you have a binary OS, everything is compiled around the lowest common denominator. Meaning that expensive new CPU you bought with AVX, FMA, etc is wasted 99% of the time. With Gentoo, you get every library and every program compiled for your CPU.
It won't make a big difference on an older CPU, but on a new one, it can make huge performance difference. To me, spending more time compiling when I'm not working if it means a faster computer for free when working, it's a good deal.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=2990wx-linux-windows&num=2
Not to mention I was smug as fuck watching everyone's favorite distros turn systemd. I have a very nice pulseaudio and systemd-free distro, running what I want without the bullshit.
▶ No.959038
>>959008
That wall of text: Wrap negative rhetoric around simple facts to create the illusion that a viable operating system (it doesn't to be viable for everyone) is actually trash or "isn't modern enough".
Nice attempt though.
▶ No.959040
>>959035
PulseAudio's great if you build it with -alsa and +jack (and install jack2 from the audio-overlay). Poetterware deserves to be cucked by a superior master like JACK.
▶ No.959041
>>958984 (OP)
If you want break-proof ZFS you should use Antegros (Arch based)
▶ No.959060>>959539
>Why go through all of the headache of configuration?
To get something that does what you want.
>Is it actually worth it?
For me, yes. I don't know you well enough to say if it's the same for you.
>Linux from Scratch seems more educational and meaningful to me.
Educational, yes, but not something you want to use. If you don't know why try it, and don't forget to keep packages relevant to security updated.
▶ No.959064
>>958984 (OP)
>Arch
Users of Arch are basically that cartoon skinny fuck who flexes his non-existing muscles unaware of how comical it is.
>Gentoo
One of the few good linux distros. Worth it.
▶ No.959066>>959072 >>959108
Gentoo has a legit use It's a toolkit for developers to work with compiled software and it also has uses in changing what software is actually running on the operating system without having to work as hard.
Arch is just a baby distro for fags who larp as hackers and moan on about how they changed the font colour to be something different. There is nothing to gain from arch as it uses the same binary based system that most other distros use, but worse.
▶ No.959072>>959279 >>1012568
>>959035
>muh performance
lmfao daily reminder gentoo niggers literally believe in gcc magic
>>959066
>what software is actually running on the operating system without having to work as hard
I'm getting brain damage from listening to you tards.
▶ No.959073
>>959011
Their code of conduct is fucking cancer.
▶ No.959074
>>959032
This. It seems like a distro for halfchan ricer faggots.
▶ No.959102>>975097
Recent convert from Windows to Arch here. I've used some of the 'friendlier' linux distros like Ubuntu and Debian and it was just so shit because they were obviously just trying to emulate what other popular OS's were doing. I'll just share what I've experienced with Arch after my first 2 months with it:
> strong learning curve getting started, but a lot of support. There's just a whole community of people that are geeks for arch, as is apparent in /tech/
> Easy enough configuration of DE's/WM's. When I went looking around at this stuff, I found a bunch of ricing guides, found what I liked the most and then started on it. After getting it set up it was pretty easy to add and change a little bit to make it feel more comfy.
> I don't ever feel like I'm wrestling control from the OS. From the start there's not a whole lot, just enough to get you building the system to your own needs, and so you just add the parts that you want to use. Most of whatever you end up getting is easy to configure, so after getting it set up initially, if anything just isn't as smooth as you want, you can just go in and change it. Likely you already know how from the initial configuration.
> A ton of software available. Whatever isn't in the official repository, you may likely end up finding in the AUR. If you already know how to work with tarballs, then you're ahead of where I was with it, but I even had an easy time with it. I've heard some people say that submitting software to the AUR is a lot easier than what Debian has but I haven't contributed to either personally.
I cannot speak to any other OS's but as far as my experience goes with these minimal installs, I'm pretty happy. It's a challenge, but it respects everyone instead of starting from the assumption that "dis computer stuff is just too hard for you user plebs." On the other side of that challenge is a personalized workstation and strong command over your machine.
INB4 other OS dogpile: I will one day try BSD and Gentoo, but I really just learned linux as I was installing Arch (I've been exposed to it in the past, but I've never seriously worked with it). Arch has satisfied me greatly so far, and I'm currently using it for work and school, so I can't be bothered to go distro hopping at least until next summer break.
▶ No.959108>>959116 >>961693
>>959066
this is actually accurate but arch does have ONE use and that would be: you want a binary based distro but also want nearly every package without having to jump throuh hoops since AUR has everything vs debian style os's that do not have every package
gentoo however is SHIT compared to funtoo (unless you are on some obscure arch) if you want the only good nonsystemd os FUNTOO is the way to go
▶ No.959116>>959120
>>959108
>since AUR has everything
But the quality is total dogshit and they're from some rando who probably just uploaded it to add malware. Why not obtain such things as source from the original author and install in /usr/local?
▶ No.959120>>959138 >>959151
>>959116
>Why not obtain such things as source from the original author and install in /usr/local?
Says the guy who never had to compile anything. With AUR: read pkgbuild and any other relevant files (usually none), run makepkg. Without AUR: download sources, untar, read INSTALL, or README, or readme, etc, run ./configure --halp, check which config options you probably need, make, it doesn't work, find which library you're missing, download library sources, untar, read INSTALL...
Also even when it isn't on AUR I always create a package because pacman -Rsc libnigger will remove it for sure, but I'm bound to forget some file or another if I just throw it into /usr/local/ like a retard.
▶ No.959138>>959416
>>959120
>if I just throw it into /usr/local/ like a retard
>libnigger
>I'm bound to forget some file
>Says the guy who never had to compile anything
▶ No.959151>>959419
>>959120
It sounds like you use AUR because you don't know enough to correctly install software from source on your l33t distro for pro kernel hackers. It was already my mental picture of Arch users so I'm amused.
▶ No.959279
>>959072
>daily reminder gentoo niggers literally believe in gcc magic
Daily reminder USE flags and configuration options can result in faster software
▶ No.959280
>>959008
>I hope you realize that this literally only applies to a base system install with absolutely no packages added. In other words, not exactly representative or meaningful towards... anything really.
a base OpenBSD system is a fully-usable system that really doesn't require you to install many packages to get a normalfag pc.
▶ No.959299
I still use gentoo because its no systemd and mature distro(as in number of packages, searchable online support, stability)
I also appreciate having the source code of all my software so I can check how many LOC there are and make small changes that for some strange reason are not possible through configs. The 9999 versions of packages are also a nice way to install the newest version of software from git.
Being able to do use flags optimizations and kernel customization is nice flexibility to have but I dont see the need for saving disc space and barely noticeable speed gains.
If not for the lack of maturity crux and void linux seem like better options. They seem to offer choice of whether to compile from source or install binary, so can safe time when compile is not needed.
crux is more interresting because of it's focus on simplicity and void is interresting because of it's simple fast init runit and using musl which is more minimal than glibc.
▶ No.959302>>959354
>>959008
This is a bot right? Nobody can be this autistic.
▶ No.959354>>1013311
>>959008
<only one to offer authentication with Kerberos plus encryption with the krb5p option.
>implying kerberos isn't just a atacamma submillimeter array botnet
<Let's of course not forget that OpenBSD lacks a Mandatory Access Control
Isn't openbsd single user? Why would this matter under a single user?
<OpenBSD's pf has inferior performance, as it only utilizes one core of one processor
This is for security purposes. It's easier to check the ISA stream at every step when it is linear. Sure, it's possible to check it on a multi-proccess level. But modern proccessors implement out of order scheduling at a level you can't control as a programmer making it impossible to control even if you wrote perfect code.
>>959302
It might be an A.I, but I have seen people more autistic then this.
▶ No.959376>>959531
Linux is for virgins. If you want something done use an actual OS.
▶ No.959416>>959430
>>959138
xAttach[interracial_porn]
>libnigger
I felt at home on the internet in the early 90's, when it was mostly tard free, and lost since the iPod got wifi, until I found my home on here
▶ No.959419
>>959151
Nigger I said I create a package when it isn't on AUR, how the fuck is that not knowing how to install software?
▶ No.959430
>>959416
Well Imma guess that all through the 90s tards had programs and shit all over the filesystem and were not ghettoised in fucking /home.
▶ No.959531>>972847 >>983990 >>1012720
▶ No.959537>>973015
How is Artix or Calculate?
▶ No.959539>>959718 >>960958
>>958984 (OP)
>What is the point of Arch and Gentoo?
What is the point of threads like this? You're not doing anything but demonstrating your ignorance. Gentoo is a source-based metadistribution that offers great choice to the user and is available on a ton of computer architectures. Arch is a binary-based distribution that values simplicity and bleeding- (or at least cutting-) edge software and is available for only one architecture. Different distros, different purposes, different approaches, different audiences. It's telling that you lump them together. Let me help you out.
If you ask what's the point of Arch, you probably don't need Arch.
If you ask what's the point of Gentoo, you probably don't need Gentoo.
If you ask what's the point of Arch and Gentoo, /tech/ definitely doesn't need you.
>Why go through all of the headache of configuration?
If you can read the Arch wiki, it takes less than 30 minutes to get Arch installed and running with X and a DE/WM of your choice, and a lot of that 30 minutes is waiting for the packages to download. If you want to rice the shit out of your setup, or you want a bunch of custom kernel patches, or you're setting up an audio workstation, then configuration might take a while, but that would be true on any distro that isn't already specifically tailored to your needs.
>>959060
>Linux from Scratch seems more educational and meaningful to me.
>Educational, yes, but not something you want to use. If you don't know why try it, and don't forget to keep packages relevant to security updated.
That's actually not hard for an actual plain-Jane LFS system. It isn't really that many packages, and many of them aren't updated that often. Chasing down security updates for a BLFS system is a giant pain in the ass, though, especially if you've installed something like Xorg, which has a gajillion dependencies. So, yeah, if you've created a "desktop" BLFS system and you actually want to keep it up to date, expect pain.
▶ No.959658>>998300
▶ No.959718>>959778 >>1013999
>>959539
>If you ask what's the point of Arch, you probably don't need Arch.
>If you ask what's the point of Gentoo, you probably don't need Gentoo.
distros for unthinking babbbys
▶ No.959778>>1013999
>>959718
damn well son you really got me there all these years i was wasting my time. time to switch to ubuntu
▶ No.960958>>961702
>>959539
>demonstrating your ignorance
Provide retard OP with an introduction will you?
>If you can read the Arch wiki, it takes less than 30 minutes to get Arch installed and running with X and a DE/WM of your choice, and a lot of that 30 minutes is waiting for the packages to download.
Videos > Wikis when it comes to introduction. but yeah WTFM (watch the fucking movie).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqh9AQt3nho
▶ No.960976>>960979 >>961012
>>958984 (OP)
If you don't have low-end hardware, then Gentoo is the most sane distribution of GNU+Linux (But you could still use distcc, if you have multiple computers)
>Overlays are comfier than AUR crap or PPA/Snap cancer
>You can easily customize packages and features, disable/enable the ones you need (also, it's more secure that way)
>You can choose whatever software you want (even your init system)
>Easy to mix stable and """Bleeding Edge""" software
>Trustworthy and has been around for a long time (unlike some meme distros)
>Properly maintained repositories and mirrors
>Portage, Layman and Gentoolkit are very /comfy/
Just Install GENTOO already!
>>959011
SJW nuff said
▶ No.960979>>990405
>>960976
>Easy to mix stable and """Bleeding Edge""" software
I disagree. I installed several versions of Python 3 and ended up borking my system.
Could no longer emerge anything.
▶ No.960985
I used both 10 years ago, now I use neither: macOS and OpenBSD instead
Once you become a boomer you really start to understand the appeal of "just werks"
Though that's debatable with regards to 2018 Apple
▶ No.961012>>974959
>>960976
Gotta get that hot new CPU so I can build fucking vim.
▶ No.961014>>961023
>headache of configuration
What headache?
After 15 years of using several linux distros I can configure any linux box with my eyes closed.
▶ No.961017
Because you want your OS to be so niche you can't do anything
▶ No.961023>>961024
>>961014
I don't know if it's changed since, but I recall arch requiring the manual editing of a lot of config files during the setup itself. It's not necessary and nobody should derive pride from being able to do it.
▶ No.961024
>>961023
>I recall arch requiring the manual editing of a lot of config files during the setup itself.
5 files (6 if you use a non "us" keyboard layout). Mostly uncommenting a line or writing a single line. Takes 15 seconds per file. Maybe 30 if you've never done it before.
>It's not necessary
It is if you want to install Arch.
>and nobody should derive pride from being able to do it.
Nobody said that anyone should. What the guy you're responding to said is that it's not a headache.
And it's not.
▶ No.961186>>961196
What distro would allow me to run different isolated copies of same software without dependency hell in a manner portable apps allow doing it on Windows?
▶ No.961693
>>959108
>funtoo is the way to go
why?
▶ No.961694
>>961196
>Docker
>running shitware daemon as root
Docker is redhatware, for the retards by the retards. Stick to LXC for containers, and firejail if you're not retarded (you don't really need containers).
▶ No.961702
>>960958
>Videos > Wikis
Opinion discarded.
▶ No.962235
▶ No.962244
>>958984 (OP)
Firstly, go camping in the woods on the weekends. Once you're comfortable with that, find a spot near a water source with fish and build a lean-to. After you can live removed from everything, sustainably on the weekends, study Zen buddhism, specifically the practice of zazen. You don't need to be so rigorous as to follow it to a tee; after all, enlightenment can be gained by anyone. Once you realise you can live by yourself, and understand life by yourself, then you'll understand what your life is, isn't. And you'll learn that you aren't the boundary of your skin. There are no boundaries. Everything is.
▶ No.972468>>972625
arch is sorta like a modern slackware
-the nice part about arch is the latest kernel supports way more hardware out of the box,
arch is like an actual desktop primary os within real world realism
if you love slackware you will like arch, i swear that arch is like modern slackware is a way of putting it
▶ No.972513>>972687
If you don't know why you'd put time into configuring your system (as simple and quick as that actually is) or if it's worth the time, I'll tell you that you are not informed enough neither about the systems you have in mind, their viable uses, nor the actual use you want to have them provide. This thread is shit. You're a fucking moron. Fuck off and don't come back.
>>959035
Listen to this guy.
▶ No.972625
>>972468
The PKGBUILDS have an awful quality compared to Gentoo's ebuild, though. Don't care about debundling nor about software respecting user C/CPP/LDFLAGS.
▶ No.972627
>>959032
>gtk3
>Not using a tiling window manager
▶ No.972687
>>972513
Read the fucking CoC and then come back to this board. This is a friends only zone.
▶ No.972807
>>958996
btw I use arch
and I humbly disagree
▶ No.972847
▶ No.972901>>973015
OpenBSD is the unix promise realised. Tiny, secure, straightforward and easy to understand, easy to install, easy to install software. All those memes the self important trannies and soyboys convinced everyone were so desperately needed? It simply doesn't have them. Pure and untouched by freedesktop bloat like systemd or pulseaudio and yet miraculously able to run any kind of modern software. Rather than being pozzed by some gay shit they just iterate and improve their own solutions. And then other people copy+paste their stuff. I'm convinced it will get the recognition it deserves soon since it's been improving so quickly.
▶ No.973015>>973017 >>973028 >>973183 >>976310 >>1006406
>>959537
Calculate is Fanastic, and it's such a good Gentoo spin that it's probably how every newbie should be indoctrinated into Linux. The only Poetterware is Pulseaudio (which can be crippled with -alsa useflags if you want to install jack2 and still play games), and it's built with -03 -pipe. Artix is the least worst Arch derivative.
Reminder that there are three (two and a half) Gentoo-derivatives that are binary-based: Calculate Linux, Sabayon, and CloverOS (half - It's just Gentoo). Use and learn one instead of wasting time with Arch.
>>972901
Gentoo is a stepping stone to OpenBSD. Gentoo gets you used to ports, slimming down your install, and weaning yourself off Poetterware in favor of The Unix Way. It should be recognized for this contribution.
▶ No.973017>>973027 >>973043
>>973015
This.
Really makes me want to install CloverOS
▶ No.973027>>973043
>>973017
CloverOS is seriously underrated. I downstreamed them for my enterprise laptop deployments. Adding JACK and a KDE desktop made these the perfect systems for end-users. Despite their faggotry, /g/ makes a hell of a distro. If USE flags and package.env changes don't scare you, you'll be sold once you finish the 3-minute install, and log in to the desktop of your choice post-command line login. just switch the -G to -g in EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS so you can build packages that aren't in the binary overlay.
▶ No.973028>>973033 >>976339
>>973015
Too bad OpenBSD has a shit package manager (no configuration, no way to easily act as a source-only PM), shit performances, and most importantly, doesn't seem to care. That's why I'm eyeing Dfly more: performances are obviously very good (that's the point of the OS) and ravenports looks pretty good; too bad it's amd64 only.
▶ No.973033>>973041
>>973028
> too bad it's amd64 only
too bad it's not GNU.
too bad it's swiss cheese for security.
too bad it's in desperate need of a code audit.
If we're going to abandon the GPL's protections, we're going to pick the least-worst BSD to build from. Dragonfly isn't it.
▶ No.973041
>>973033
Wow. Those GPL protections sure helped to protect Linux from being taken over by corporate interests. Good thing for those GPL protections tbh fam.
▶ No.973043
>>973017
>>973027
wait, you mean it's ACTUALLY progressed beyond the logo phase?!
▶ No.973182>>973183 >>973561
I don't see how gentoo is a stepping stone when it's much harder to use. You also have to compile everything which can rape less capable hardware. Ports are easy. I think a multi tiered approach might be good, with the goal of always getting to do what you want. Something like:
1. OpenBSD (surprisingly capable, can do most things)
2. Arch/Antergos (muh WINE, muh steam gaymes, muh AUR)
3. Ubuntu (unlikely to reach this stage)
4. Win7
That way you're spending most of your time on OpenBSD and only using other stuff for specific reasons. And those reasons will diminish over time.
▶ No.973183>>973561
▶ No.973561>>973588 >>986301 >>1006513
>>973182
>>973183
> btw I use Arch.
I have latest wine-staging, steam beta, JACK, brave, git mesa, git libdrm, git dolphin emu, git retroarch, flatpack and snappy; all of them quickpkg'd up, and I can install/deploy a new laptop asset with all of the above in less than 4 minutes from *netboot*.
Ports could learn a thing or two from Portage. I'd love to have a package.use (and a package.keywords and package.env) in ports. It'd change my world. Having a layman-equivalent in ports would also be extremely beneficial.
If you're on weaker hardware, use Calculate or CloverOS (or any binary overlay) and quit whining about "muh compiling". I ran gentoo on an Atom D525 for years as my daily driver. It wasn't hard. There's a reason firefox-bin, brave-bin, and libreoffice-bin exist in regular portage.
The truth of it all is that Gentoo isn't hard to use, once installed. it's just hard to *install*. Calculate gets you a Linux desktop in the same time Ubuntu does, and the pain of administration is about the same, if not a little less on Calculate's side. Calculate (Baby's First Gentoo) simultaneously makes Gentoo feel less threatening, and also introduces newbies to a Poettering-free linux experience, likely for the first time in their lives.
A multi-tiered approach would be Gentoo on bare metal, OpenBSD in a VM handling your network/wifi card, Win7 in a VM with LookingGlass (for everything that doesn't work in Steam Play/Proton), and an Ubuntu install in VM for compatibility testing. Anyone dual/multi-booting in Current Year + 3 is an idiot that doesn't know how to VM.
▶ No.973588>>974825 >>974957 >>1006513
>>973561
An addendum: while AUR is a neat workaround for the limitations of pacman's design, Gentoo's model is superior, because it literally *integrates* an AUR into the normal package repsoitory. Submitting new packages to portage is as simple as making a bug in bugzilla, and attaching the ebuild. If your ebuild changes too many things, or is updated once every two days or something, throw that bitch in an overlay (which is very similar to an ubuntu ppa from a user's perspective - who uses Arch overlays now that V10l0 is no longer needed?), and then people willing to dip their toe will find you on gpo.zugaina.org
Most of the packages that update from git have a -9999 build of the package, which will update every time you emerge @world; all you have to do is edit a package.keywords file and insert a line about it.
Now, if you're like me, and you want to install minimal Poetterware to make Steam games work (or the wife demands you play Stardew Valley on multiplayer with her), in Gentoo I have the option to disable pulseaudio's ability to talk to alsa. JACK is the Head Nigger In Charge, pulse can only talk to JACK as a slave, and doesn't even know Alsa exists on my system. Alsa, similarly, is configured to only output to JACK. ffmpeg only talks to JACK. so does vlc, smplayer, mpv, gstreamer, kmix, and phonon. Literally the only apps that use PA are steam games. All I had to do to enable this was emerge pulseaudio with -alsa, and the rest with -pulse -alsa, as useflags. Can you do that in pacman/pacaur/yaourt, or are you stuck with every setting enabled by default? Thought so.
Pic related - new hardware that's unstable in everything but Gentoo right now, showing Lennart, Firefox, and Brave's submission to a proper master.
▶ No.974825
▶ No.974831>>974916 >>974942
>arch
good tier package manager = pacman - best graphical frontend = octopi - intuitive aur helpers
hassle free - no dependency hell but requires you not to be stupid when updating
binaries (not optimized but at least signed) - aur binaries for non-generic hardware
most stuff precompiled for most hardware including recent ones to work
systemd and other cancers but it can be removed / there are forks
forks or scripts that does not require you to touch terminal
better arch than babby distro - command line nigger?
>gentoo
god tier package manager = portage
might be a hassle but worth it (learning curve) - some stuff might go fuck itself (python etc)
source or binaries but mostly source - optimizable and can support more architectures than arch linux
systemd is not default
sadly the project is lacking in funds now (thank you Google for your patronage!)
faster than most distros though it takes a lot of time - the only cons would be how much space and time it needs to compile your browser or even update that microtuned kernel security patch versionX-1(minor fix) or that toaster (then you have to spend another 3 days recompiling if it fucks up or fills up your drive) - though that's just the worst case scenario
you're a wizard! 9000 MP left
>LFS
what is time? lol i'm immortal vampyros
you're a magus! over 9000 Magical Damage (overkill)
>linux in general
fucked up psychopath file systems (except xfs)
red hat cianiggers (systemdbusetc...)
latency fucked up audio (pulse or alsa the mute)
>bsd and derivatives
good file systems
cuck license and slow progression
good audio quality
not enough basic consumer software
kinda comfy
▶ No.974890>>974897
>>958984 (OP)
>Why go through all of the headache of configuration? Is it actually worth it?
As for arch it's not that much configuration. It just doesn't have a graphical installer and doesn't come with gigabytes of software preinstalled. You install just what you need so you can decide for yourself how you want your system to be. You can keep it small and simple or make it a bloated Ubuntu. It's up to you but neither thing is hard to do. Arch is actually all about simplicity while maintaining a certain customizability. No one who knows a little more about linux than how to launch LibreOffice and Firefox from KDE should be able to pull off a arch install.
Gentoo on the other hand is all about customizability, even down to the compile options. This of course requiresboth a little more knowledge and a user who actually knows exactly what he wants (because shooting from the hip might eventually work and educate you but will not give you a more efficient system than any binary distro).
▶ No.974891>>1012539
>>959005
>Arch is better because it does that while remaining actually viable for daily use. Gentoo is poser cancer for people who only have it installed to brag about since it's actually an awful practical use distro.
Arch is for laptops, gentoo is for the sexy grand desktop at home.
▶ No.974897>>974898
>>974890
Is the speed increase of using gentoo such a big difference compared to Ubuntu?
▶ No.974898
>>974897
I couldn't really compare it well so far because one is running from a SSD and the other one from a HDD. Gentoo seems a little more smooth though. And besides speed, custom compile options have other advantages too, like applications having exactly the features you need without creating dependencies you don't want for things you never use. Which is a blessing on Linux, to say the least.
▶ No.974915
>>959008
>always do the opposite of what the glownigger shills
ok.
▶ No.974916>>974965
>>974831
>fucked up psychopath file systems
what?
▶ No.974942
>>974831
>fucked up psychopath file systems (except xfs)
whats wrong with btrfs?
>red hat cianiggers (systemdbusetc...)
true
>latency fucked up audio (pulse or alsa the mute)
A great weakness of linux indeed
▶ No.974957
>>973588
is that KDE? on cloveros? why don't you just install systemd/ubuntu if your going to do this heresy.
▶ No.974959
>>961012
I built vim on gentoo just fine with a low-end chromebook.
▶ No.974965
>>974916
>psychopath fs
Nina Reiser deserved that.
▶ No.975041>>975135
What init system does calculate Linux use. What does Gentoo used?
▶ No.975097>>976403
>>959008
This is either a copy-pasta or you've been reposting this shit in every thread where OpenBSD comes up.
>>959102
>strong learning curve getting started
Copy-pasting code from the wiki isn't "learning curve"
The only thing I like about Arch is the decent repo they have.
▶ No.975135
▶ No.976310
>>973015
>The only Poetterware is Pulseaudio (which can be crippled with -alsa useflags if you want to install jack2 and still play games),
Couldn't you just uninstall Pulseaudio? Pls no bully am brainlet.
▶ No.976339>>976350 >>976405
>>973028
OpenBSD openly admits it prioritizes security over performance and the package manager is simple but how the fuck can you miss ports? That's what you use if you want source.
▶ No.976350>>976416
>>976339
Using ports is pointless--on OpenBSD you get the same version of the package, so building from source is a waste of time.
▶ No.976403
>>975097
>The only thing I like about Arch is the decent repo they have.
Are you joking? Please be joking. Arch uses the AUR as a pitiful excuse for their small repo; they also don't provide any flavours (e.g. package-gtk2 for those who want to avoid the gtk3 cancer).
▶ No.976405
>>976339
You don't seem to understand. OpenBSD is like Arch in that matter. You can use ports (or ABS) to build individual ports, but you can't do the equivalent of 'emerge --update --deep' using only the port system.
▶ No.976416
>>976350
In general, that's true. But there are a few cases where you might want to use the ports:
1) Some arch don't have as many binary packages built automatically as amd64
2) You want to use a FLAVOR that's available for that port but for which nobody built a package
3) You want to do your own customization of a program. It's pretty convenient to go into the port directory and type "make patch" and then just edit whatever file(s) you need and then resume the port build process. I've done this in the past for a couple programs I had minor personal tweaks for (nothing fancy or useful to anyone else, or I'd have sent a patch upstream).
Also it's just useful if you want to examine the source code. The ports tree makes it easy to fetch and extract it with one command ("make patch" like I said above, but read "man ports" for all details).
▶ No.977459
>>958984 (OP)
>why go through all the configuration?
Gentoo doesn't actually have a lot of configuration.
If you want to configure a lot it gives you the freedom to do so, but if you don't want to bother you can just install gentoo unstable/stable, pick your profile of choice and you have a ready to use system.
You're basically asking "why do I have to drink toilet water?" because toilet water exists.
You don't have to go through piles of configuration just because you can.
But if you do want to go through piles of configuration, gentoo is definitely the best distro and you can very well tailor your system to exactly what you envision, something other distros don't let you do.
As for Arch, I haven't used it in 7 years, so I don't really remember much, but there's no reason to use arch even if Void didn't exist, but Void exists so use it instead.
▶ No.977460
I haven't used Gentoo since it first came out. It was a good learning experience though.. just tedious. Now I might see value in it because SystemD is optional.
▶ No.977481
Apart from learning about tech under the hood and having no systemD on a popular OS, is there a benefit of Gentoo? Their website does a shit-poor job of selling itself (figuratively).
Puppy Linux does all that too
▶ No.978896>>978933 >>986306
>>959005
>Gentoo is poser cancer for people who only have it installed to brag about since it's actually an awful practical use distro.
You seem to never have used Gentoo. I use gentoo since 4 years daily, and while you're right to say that it's not easy, for a tech illiterate to configure everything at first (and it takes time, I had a lot of free time when I learnt everything, as I'm not a programmer), you just have to save your configs, and reuse it anywhere you need it again. The only problem I have with gentoo is how slow is to install package on old laptops (even though you still can go around, be compiling the packages on a strong machine, then move them here).
Seriously, I don't see why anyone, that have dedicated his life to computing, would not use gentoo, or literally build your own OS (linux based or else). I'm just a power user, that's why I'm kind of limited (I'm not programming all day). But for someone who lives on a computer all day long, then seriously I don't understand. Working your whole life on computers, and not mastering the best and most complicated tools available to me is a mystery. At least, if you do something, do it right.
I personally don't see a true master of programming not having his own OS at some point.
▶ No.978933>>980013 >>984028
>>978896
>why wouldn't you use gentoo
Because it's a joke.
>mastering the best and most complicated tools available to me
>best and most complicated
A joke.
▶ No.979084
>>958984 (OP)
There's an entire wiki, forum and youtube community that will hand hold you through every possible arch interaction you will ever have to deal with so honestly it's not difficult at all if you have some free time, since you're posting here I can only assume you do
▶ No.980013
>>978933
Nice argument, shill.
▶ No.983990
>>959531
like Linux, for example.
▶ No.984025
>>959005
>Gentoo is poser cancer for people who only have it installed to brag about since it's actually an awful practical use distro.
How is it any different from any other Linux distro when it comes to daily use? I mean you can set it up to be quite different but you can also make it a ubuntu. When everything is set up you just use your computer like on any other distro.
▶ No.984028
literally the only difference is that something like ubuntu has more niggers to sit around figuring out which packages break with which dependencies. meanwhile ubuntu forces you to have all kinds of cancer in your system. meanwhile in gentoo you get almost everything in source form instead of being a binary cuck. modifying anything is easy
>>978933
the tutorial is like 10 steps faggot.
▶ No.984126>>984145
Installed Arch 2 days ago and took me ~4 hours to get everything set up (Wireless, i3wm, getting Arch to supersample 2x4k monitors for me, ect). There's nothing difficult about this.
Also my install is minimalist af, Currently my / partition only has 8GB full and I know what every process running actually is.
You have not been able to do this with winblows in over a decade. I remember running 10 processes on Windows XP.
▶ No.984127>>990406
>>959005
>the tutorial is like 10 steps faggot.
And it has become pretty easy anyway. The real gentoo install where you bootstrap the toolchain and everything isn't even supported anymore. And of course you can download a stage tarball, extract it and chroot into it from any other Linux, so you could even do it from a X session in a terminal emulator with mouse and everything. Obviously it's not really fun that way. The real comfy experience is at least using the minimal boot that only has text mode and reading the tutorial with lynx. This reminds me feel like when I was 14 doing my first two Gentoo installs.
On modern hardware even Firefox, Libreoffice, the Kernel and so on compile very fast and without any swapping. A few years you could type emerge firefox and come back the next day. Now it's hard to leave the machine alone for longer than one or two hours without worrying about it having nothing more to put processing power into half of the time.
▶ No.984145
>>984126
Manjaro installs in like 20 minutes, maybe.
▶ No.984168
>>958984 (OP)
>>959032
>shilling for Arch
We have moved onto Artix and Parabola. Arch has been infected by the systemd malware, so no one should ever use it. It has been forked and had the malware removed, so why are you acting like the Artix and Parabola forks don't exist?
▶ No.986301
>>973561
>A multi-tiered approach would be Gentoo on bare metal, OpenBSD in a VM handling your network/wifi card, Win7 in a VM with LookingGlass (for everything that doesn't work in Steam Play/Proton), and an Ubuntu install in VM for compatibility testing. Anyone dual/multi-booting in Current Year + 3 is an idiot that doesn't know how to VM.
Sounds like overkill. That said, I would love to have Winshit in a VM for geymes but don't wan't to have a 2nd GPU just for a OS i don't like.
>Now, if you're like me, and you want to install minimal Poetterware to make Steam games work (or the wife demands you play Stardew Valley on multiplayer with her), in Gentoo I have the option to disable pulseaudio's ability to talk to alsa. JACK is the Head Nigger In Charge, pulse can only talk to JACK as a slave, and doesn't even know Alsa exists on my system. Alsa, similarly, is configured to only output to JACK. ffmpeg only talks to JACK. so does vlc, smplayer, mpv, gstreamer, kmix, and phonon. Literally the only apps that use PA are steam games. All I had to do to enable this was emerge pulseaudio with -alsa, and the rest with -pulse -alsa, as useflags.
I don't understand what you posted, but I have been looking for a way to sandbox Steam. Is there a resen you don't install Steam as a Flatpkg?
▶ No.986306
>>978896
>Seriously, I don't see why anyone, that have dedicated his life to computing, would not use gentoo
Not everyone is a retarded child.
>Working your whole life on computers, and not mastering the best and most complicated tools available to me is a mystery.
There is nothing best about gentoo. Mastering needlessly complex tools is moronic. "Hey you dedicated your life to carpentry why don't you use this giant clusterfuck of 5 different hammer heads, 3 saws, a full set of screwdrivers and some random kids toys I found laying around all glued to a huge dildo instead of that framing hammer?!"
▶ No.990405
>>960979
Switch to pure ~($ARCH).
▶ No.990406>>990407
>>984127
Search "Ye olde Gentoo install" on the its wiki.
▶ No.990407
▶ No.991365
Gentoo is great for lower end machines, especially old ones. You get a performance boost out of compiling natively on your machine. On a faster PC, this isn't as noticeable. But something like a Pentium D with Failburst, it adds up fast.
▶ No.991396>>991408 >>998317
Arch and its children is essentially the only realistic future for babbies first linux distro because of the AUR. I honestly don't know why anyone suggest debanoid cancer to "newbies" these days. The "software centres" for those distributions are always unbelievably slow and clunky as fuck. The AUR is the only true representation of the ease of use linuxfags claim about software centres. There's a reason why .deb files exist despite the fact that lincucks niggers routinely swear by their shitty little PPA's and software centres.
▶ No.991408>>998306
>>991396
no one cares nigger, you make it sound as if anyone here cares about "software centres" (which i assume are some GUI to pick out what software you want)
▶ No.998261
>Arch
You want Parabola aka what arch was intended to be.
▶ No.998300
>>959658
artix doesn't remove dbus.
It also still has all the issues with gtk3 that arch has.
▶ No.998306
>>991408
>no one cares about "software centres"
>(which i assume are some GUI to pick out what software you want)
How did you not pick up the fact that he's obviously refering to the spread out repository model that debian uses?
He was obviously refering to the fact that most debian distros are hampered by the fact that their repositories tend to suck and the only way to have them get more updated applications is to manually shift through PPAs.
When a newb comes to linux they want a system that "just werkz" so obviously digging through hundreds of unfamiliar websites just to get a program doesn't really appeal to them at all.
especially since they're just getting off of that windows like mentality of "ZOMGZ VIRUS!!!!?!11/!??1" They're not going to trust some random ppa that's avaible on some random website.
This makes them automatically direct themselfs to just using the defaults (which suck) This along with the use of a generic overly popular Desktop enviroment like GNOME would give them by the end of it all an overall experience makes it seem as if linux sucks and is a slow piece of shit.
My first distro was debian years ago and this was my inital idea as to what linux was like. It only changed when i installed manjaro which is a distro that actually manages to be both stable and updated.
The binary based model of arch caters to retarded linux newbs a lot more than debian's model does.
Debian is trying to make itself robust in it's capabilites allowing for more wide ranged setups, but because of that everything is confusing as fuck because they're working with binaries.
This is where a system like Gentoo actually works better, as everything is checked by useflags and is done in compile time.
This makes having a greater range of setups much easier while still keeping it simple and forward enough for the user.
Additonally, debian uses a snapshot model. Now, you'd think this would be a good thing, as evidented by slackware it obviously works pretty well.
But for debian, it doesn't. They're constantly having to fight their older setups and there ends up being a constant confusion as to what a ppa actually supports.
Is this the debian 7 ppa? or the debian 9? what if it's debian 8?!?!?!
Then, with all the different forks added in like ubuntu and devuan there confusion ONLY GETS BIGGER!
Not saying that you couldn't get this all sorted out, theres obviously a lot of people who use debian and it has it's uses. But it isn't a newb friendly distro at all.
It's a pitfall that many constantly say "oh yeah this is newb friendly, see it's simple we got a gui that does things"
But in reality it's a constant battle to figure out what in the living fuck actuall version your running and if the libs installed from one ppa won't collide with another.
The very momment you decide to use alternative methods to get more updated programs is the very momment the system hits the shitter.
And they fucking know this, why do you think they've been pushing for .debs, snap, appimages, and fucking flatpacks?!
It's all their own fualt that "package management is broken"
If you just jump to a different system that isn't retarded you'd see that everything can be much simpler without ruining stability at all.
Gentoo is one of the most stable distros around and it's fucking rolling release insanity.
Arch while cancer and "le ebin config brok XDD" it's still miles ahead. and with distros based on it like manjaro it's even more newb friendly then linux mint.
▶ No.998317
>>991396
>AUR
Install binary package compiled by random dude?
▶ No.998340
Arch is for people who want to use a rolling release distro, trust the upstream a.k.a the own devs of the programs you use instead of the distro maintainers to deal with instability/bugs problems and have almost all the software written for linux available through the official repos + AUR.
Gentoo is for people who like to set USE flags and manage what dependencies get installed with a package or packages when possible.
Each distro serves specific distinct (and valid on its own) purposes and people who criticize any of it as being "lame", "poser" or whatever are the real pseuds for not realizing this simple fact. The very reason why there's so many distros out there is because different people have different needs and likes and also free (as in freedom) software gives freedom for developers to experiment with different ways of doing things and that's absolutely fine and beautiful in a way.
▶ No.1006406
>>973015
Would Calculate be good for a netbook? I don't really have much in the way of computing power.
▶ No.1006409
Should I switch from Void to Gentoo, and if yes, how much time do I need?
▶ No.1006513
>>973561
>>973588
That's a pretty interesting setup, thanks for posting about it.
▶ No.1006588>>1006701 >>1011738
Can Gentoo be installed from the hybrid iso rather than emerging from the stage 3 tarball?
▶ No.1006591
>>958984 (OP)
Arch user here.
>Why go through all of the headache of configuration?
You get exactly what you want all day every day.
> Is it actually worth it?
Emphatic yes.
>Linux from Scratch seems more educational and meaningful to me.
You either are naive about how long this shit takes to set up in a meaningful way (literally years and it's ongoing) or like wasting even more time than is necessary.
▶ No.1006701>>1012186
>>1006588
Let me clear things up for you a bit.
How Gentoo installation works is you boot into a live GNU/Linux system and from there you
>partition your disk and mount partitions
>connect to the internet
>download the stage3 tarball (which contains your base system w/o the kernel)
>unpack it onto what will be your root partition
>chroot
>set hostname, locale, timezone, root passwd, write fstab, pick profile, `emerge -uND @world`, compile kernel, install grub
>exit chroot, reboot
You can do this from any live distro or iso, it doesn't matter which one you use. You can install Gentoo from Ubuntu and partition your disk with gparted if you want.
(if you do it from Ubuntu or some other non Gentoo systems, you need to mount or symlink some additional thing or whatever before chrooting iirc, just pay attention as you skim through the chroot section in the handbook)
▶ No.1010392
>use arch
>install an innocuous package because it's a dependency or whatever
>everytime you want to upgrade a package you need to upgrade everything
>maintainer of innocuous package gives control to helpful (((volunteer)))
>next thing you know, you have been pwned
▶ No.1010403
>Gentoo
Literally the best distro to ever exist, it has more packages than any distro and it actually supports no-systemd for real. It's quite stable if you aren't retarded and use the stable profile.
>Arch
For babby ricers and stupid zoomers.
▶ No.1011738
>>1006588
If you really want to... You could just simply copy the filesystem from the iso. I don't know if there are any configs associated with the iso filesystem that would get in the way, so your mileage may vary.
▶ No.1012186>>1012194
>>1006701
>How Gentoo installation works is you boot into a live GNU/Linux system and from there you
>>partition your disk and mount partitions
>>connect to the internet
>>download the stage3 tarball (which contains your base system w/o the kernel)
>>unpack it onto what will be your root partition
>>chroot
>>set hostname, locale, timezone, root passwd, write fstab, pick profile, `emerge -uND @world`, compile kernel, install grub
>>exit chroot, reboot
Different anon here, I guess I should try Gentoo some day seeing as this is almost exactly how I install Arch whenever I need it on a new device or a in a new VM.
▶ No.1012194>>1012197
>>1012186
Pretty much. Installing Gentoo is almost no different than installing Arch. The "installing Gentoo is hard" meme is complete bullshit.
If you've ever installed Arch, it shouldn't take you more than about 30min to install Gentoo for the first time (while skimming through the handbook installation section) if you exclude kernel configuration time and compile time.
Kernel configuration is the only significant difference between the Arch and Gentoo installation (besides waiting for stuff to compile).
It isn't hard per se, it's just that it can take a while to go through all those settings, especially if you're very meticulous and are trying to maximally minimize bloat in the kernel (could take you up to an hour or so maybe, idk) but once you've done it once, you'll always be able to reuse the config on that machine, making only minor changes once in a while if necessary.
You can use genkernel if you don't care to manually configure it though.
The Gentoo handbook at first glance may look long and intimidating, but, in reality, it explains everything in noob terms and holds your hand through the whole installation process as if you were a baby (and besides the installation section, it also includes sections about working with Gentoo, working with Portage and network configuration).
Here's pretty much the installation guide you get when you strip excess information from the handbook: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Quick_Installation_Checklist
And even that has excess text in the form of example configs and command outputs. Get rid of those and you get something akin to the Arch installation guide.
▶ No.1012197
>>1012194
>Kernel configuration is the only significant difference between the Arch and Gentoo installation (besides waiting for stuff to compile).
That's one of the two major things that have been really stopping me from trying Gentoo in a VM.
>The Gentoo handbook at first glance may look long and intimidating
>intimidating
That would be xterm's fucking man page the first time I had a serious problem.
Thanks for the advice.
▶ No.1012539
>>974891
>for the sexy grand desktop at home.
You mean the one you use to download OS images when you break your laptop's install again? that's what windows is for
▶ No.1012568
>>959072
>lmfao daily reminder gentoo niggers literally believe in gcc magic
spot the retard
▶ No.1012720
▶ No.1013311
>>959354
>Isn't openbsd single user?
Genius.
▶ No.1013999
>>959778
>>959718
i think he meant that those two lines summed up everything 'unthinking babbdys' need to know about the distros.
sort of like 'distros for dummies'