/tech/ - Technology★

>[Slackware] does not have a formal bug tracking facility or public code repository

Also, does Slack documentation have any mentioning about kernel deblobing?

Gentoo at least has a section on its wiki about it, https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel_Deblobing

>>920334 (OP)

>-No dependency management

I'm fairly certainly this is a con, and quite a big one.

>>920348

The reason why Slackware doesn't implement package dependency resolution is because updates work like a snapshot - a set of new versions on the repos is guaranteed to work with each other. It's why repositories have a relatively modest amount of packages available - it's meant to be a self-contained system with all the duties of managing extra software offloaded onto the user.

>>920348

it's a huge upside. dependency management leaves you helpless if you don't want to install a certain package and replace it for another. it can easily much up your system, I can recall arch having tons of dependency issues last time i tried it.

>>920350

What if I want to grab the latest software using git? How would I get build dependencies so I could compile the software myself?

>>920346

slackware isn't good because it aims to support a cause

>>920352

For external stuff, you'd either use SBo or compile it yourself before making a tgz with makepkg so the system tracks it. Then you'd compile your shit based on that.

Just so you know, Slackware packages are simple tarballs that would unpack on top of /, with minimal metadata and optional scripts executed on install. Technically you don't even need the latter - a simple image of files would track just fine in /var/log/packages.

>Distro is still alive and loved and well used after almost three decades

BUT MUH DEPENDENCIEESSSS

Slackbook 3.0 when? Work on it seems to have stalled long ago. It would be great if a new book edition could be ready for Slackware 15, the previous one is from 2005 and is much outdated for the most part.

Is there any valid reason to stick to 13.37 in some kind of scenario? Or just use 14.<whatever-is-latest> no matter what?

Salix is better. Has everything Slackware does + dependency resolution, one application per task (no clutter), additional tools, easy live usb + graphical installer.

>>920377

Not really, it's no longer supported. 14.2 is the current stable, I'd advise against using current unless you have a habit of reading changelog religiously - Patrick tends to experiment a lot and breakage might happen (usually non-critical but you might leave your system a mess)

On the other hand, I think the pulseaudio-free packages are only available in current's extras...

>>920362

Yeah I don't give two shits about making packages for Slackware. Debian has apt-get build-dep. Cent has yum-builddep. What would Slackware's solution be for grabbing dependencies so I don't have to go hunt every single one down?

>>920381

1. slackware has a GUI installer

2. slackware has one application per task (if you choose)

3. dependency resolution is a downside. you don't need it, quit telling yourself you do

How does Slackware compare to PCLinuxOS which seems to share many of its goals (no-bullshit, sane and easy to use desktop OS, no systemd)?

>>920396

slackware doesn't have anything installed by default lol. that's what i meant boy

>>920411

Slackware urges the user to "install everything" (to anticipate any possible dependency issues), doesn't it.

>>920412

no dependency resolution = simplier and gives the user more control. control = power

>>920411

So it doesn't have "one application per task" then. Salix is the only relevant distro with that feature.

>>920419

You can use slapt-get with --no-dep in Salix. Or add the Slackware repository to gslapt. But the Salix repositories all have dependency information, and that in no way takes away control from the user.

>>920421

>I actually got into linux proper because of Slackware.

Me too. I've used it for many years after switching from Kubuntu (when KDE 3.5 got replaced...) but more and more things started to annoy me about it, and Salix fixed them all. For example:

>It even came with multiple DEs and WMs.

Clutter to me. I ended up deleting all but one eventually anyway. Different tastes, I guess..

>I could test everything explore everything use everything and it was all running perfectly.

Yeah, until you need some software that isn't included. Then the no dependencies thing screws you up.

Also disk space. Due to having all these DEs installed (as well as a bunch of browsers, media players, etc...seriously, Firefox AND Seamonkey?) it's one of the fattest distros out there. I mean, just the KDE part takes 1.5GB, more than half of Salix full install.

>>920498

>"one application per task"

What does that mean? That you install only one media player/text editor/web browser/etc.?

>>920498

>Clutter to me. I ended up deleting all but one eventually anyway.

After you found out which graphical environment suits you best, I presume. To do that you need to install more than one first, though.

https://docs.slackware.com/slackware:philosophy

>>920501

Yes, Salix includes only one of each of those by default.

>>920502

Yeah I'd rather have one DE and install others manually if I don't like it. Instead of bundling 1.5GB KDE with 50MB XFCE. Also there's no dependency resolution (again...) in Slack, so removing things is actually hard and will probably leave traces or break shit.

I still have sympathy towards Slack though. Salix wouldn't be there without it. Neither would I. It taught me everything about Linux, but eventually I just had to move on.

Slackware is actually the one distro i've been thinking of switching too ever sinse i finally got my ass hit with retarded dependency management fucking my shit up.

My main problem with slackware is that the installer does include a lot of bloat, and even if it is optional it gets hard for me to decide what to keep and what to throw.

And the recommended setting is absolutely terrible.

So, what is the best way to install slackware?

What settings do you prefer on a fresh install?

>>920525

What's the problem with having lots of software installed?

>>920526

Limited hard drive space for one.

>CS lecturer learns about slack

>is disappointed that it's not related to slackware

;_;

>>920526

more vulnerabilities (esp. if they connect to net or are a default program for a file type), more RAM+CPU use if they load on startup..

>>920544

He's talking about pre-included shit

Slackware has dependency handling, it's just in the form of a package you have to install seperate, and even then it's really just a basic script.

No full disk encryption out of the box in the installer.

>>920498

Nobody forces you to install KDE{,I} or XFCE sets, they're not interdependent with the rest of the system.

>>920703

Yeah and what about Fluxbox or whatever that's also included? Or Firefox AND Seamonkey? Or the million mail clients. "Just don't install those packages!". Okay, then it just becomes a "built your own system" game, except you have to clean up someone else's mess first...

>>920710

From my /var/log/packages, uncompressed sizes:

blackbox - 960K

fluxbox - 3.2M

windowmaker - 5.9M

Nobody prevents you from using removepkg and blacklisting those packages, you know? Or using the install mode where it shows you a list of packages to install per set.

>>920710

Slackware doesn't come with any packages preinstalled. What are you talking about? No one uses the full image to install Slackware

>>920708

systemd isn't cancer. It was too advanced for its time.

>debian has all those issues because

because it isn't slackware. :)

>slow releases =/= stability

simplicity = stability

>it uses linux. its not stable

lolwhat

>>920544

after the initial first setup you don't need the bloated dependency resolution in package managers :)

and it is one command to update everything. of course you need to update the sources like every distro first

>>920714

>Nobody prevents you from using removepkg and blacklisting those packages, you know? Or using the install mode where it shows you a list of packages to install per set.

>Okay, then it just becomes a "built your own system" game, except you have to clean up someone else's mess first...

>>920739

This is getting weirder than I thought...what the fuck is used other than full then? I've always used full.

How many floppies you need for the latest Slackware? The last time I tried Slackware it came on only 6 floppies.

>>920778

Wat. I downloaded Slackware in 1995 and it was about 50 floppies for the whole thing. Granted, you could do a minimal install with just the A and AP sets (IIRC), but you're not going to do much with just that. Maybe the old MINIX (before v3) would fit on 6 floppies. Also, various versions of DOS, including PC-DOS and DR-DOS.

I'd rather use NixOS or GuixSD

>>920498

>Yeah, until you need some software that isn't included. Then the no dependencies thing screws you up.

I didn't know any software that I could need.

I mean it had even shit like "soma" some sort of terminal radio player, etc.

When I did venture out forth I went to slackbuilds org, etc. It just grew organically for me.

Now I am irrevocably married to it.

>>920382

13.x is supported until July 5th.

>>920837

So is CentOS 6 the only way now to stay on 2.6 kernel?

Just use Debian :)

>>920393

>3. dependency resolution is a downside. you don't need it, quit telling yourself you do

I don't "need" a package manager either, but it's very hard to see having one as anything but an upside. Are you sure you're not just telling yourself that dependency resolution is bad because it makes you feel superior?

>>920741

>It was too advanced for its time.

>It was too bloated for contemporary hardware

>>920837

>July 5th

huh

<"Bob" and the Church have declared an apocalyptic prophecy that the end of the world will occur on the morning of July 5th, 1998.

https://www.slackwiki.com/Church_of_the_SubGenius

>>920971

The 20th anniversary of the SubGenius apocalypse? I actually forgot the "Slack" in Slackware was referring to Slack from the religion, pretty damn clever

I've exclusively used Slackware for my Linux usage. I still mostly use windows but I use Slackware to develop some software, run some programs etc. I was talking to some other Linux users once and, they asked how the package manager works, but I don't really know how it works. I just downloaded everything off the internet and compiled it all from source, whenever I wanted to install new software, since I don't know how package managers work and from a UI perspective this is about the same as installing a windows program- except instead of just running an MSI installer wizard I type the same three or four commands to build from source and install into the system. Does Slackware have a package manager that auto-downloads stuff off the internet for you? I don't know if I would actually use that, but I haven't figured out if it does this or not like my friend's Linux does.

>>920989

slackpkg handles interaction with Slackware repos, it uses low level tools such as installpkg and upgradepkg to act on package tarballs.

Your system is likely an untracked mess of possibly overriding libraries by now unless you were reasonable and DESTDIR'd your shit into some arbitrary directory (and even that is not a guarantee considering how utterly broken some Makefiles are).

i have nothing against Slackware but I see Arch Linux as a natural evolution past it.

>>920703

Why do you lie?, slackware comes with KDE and xfce by default, that's literally the ONLY iso they provide.

http://www.slackware.com/ports/

>Slackware's primary focus has always been the Intel distribution

Is there a chance for more ports given how pozzed the Intel plaform is now?

Slackware's okay, but Void is much better.

I hear running 32-bit executables on 64-bit Slackware isn't straightforward and requires something called multilib. How complex is this? Is it better to stick to the 32-bit version if there's such programs you need?

I have to say, no dependency handling at all is better than bad dependency handling.

>>921123

Useful reads:

https://www.linux.com/learn/intro-slackware-package-management

https://www.slackwiki.com/Third_Party_Package_Managers

>>921113

If you absolutely need to run 32-bit binaries and you can't compile them yourself, then those programs are most likely proprietary. Find a free software replacement or suck it up and stop using them.

>>921028

I have not installed any libraries I don't think (I don't know). I have just installed stuff by untarring it, and then doing the "make; make install" commands

The software I've downloaded usually just has a Debian package, some other package, and a source code download, so I download that. Sometimes there is a Slackware package I can find but I don't know how to use those. I haven't installed very many things yet. I think I installed QEMU and Geany and maybe a couple other programs so far.

>>920334 (OP)

>normal users don't need dependency management

Ah yes because your normal user is well-known for installing hundreds of packages by hand just to get X working,

>>921246

The X packages come with slackware, so you don't need to worry about setting up X.

>>921246

X is actually pretty easy to setup.

>Slackware GNU/Linux

Yea, no. Patrick is not a stallmanite and never branded Slackware that way. It's just "Slackware Linux".

>>921357

>Yea, no. Patrick is not a stallmanite and never branded Slackware that way. It's just "Slackware Linux".

It even comes with nonfree software out of the box.

>>921246

>Ah yes because your normal user is well-known for installing hundreds of packages by hand just to get X working,

>>920421

>What Slackware gave me was a well behaved, easy to use cornucopia of linux software.

>It even came with multiple DEs and WMs.

I've seen many Slackers recommend installing everything just because.

>>921360

Just because Patrick is wrong doesn't mean you have to be wrong with him. The operating system as a whole is the GNU operating system. Appending the name of the kernel to the operating system is just a way to be nice to Torvalds, but it gives him more credit than he deserves.

It's pretty good if you do a full install. otherwise you might end up in dependency hell.

>>921783

>Just because Patrick is wrong doesn't mean you have to be wrong with him

I'll be as wrong as I want and you can't stop me.

Slackware IS a waste of time. I recommend Ubuntu, it's literally a no-waste-of-time distro.

>>922109

systemd nigger

slackware is the only OS worth using. period.

>>920351

this

Why not debian?

Reminder that NixOS and GuixSD deprecate Slackware, you don't need to go through the pain of neither bad dependency management breaking your system nor manual dependency management consuming years of your precious life.

>>930088

Because it budged to the Systemd-I-A-Niggers.

Install Devuan if you like Debian but don't like the CIA.

>>930088

Debian is shit, plain and simple.

>>921113

Multilib is only nessecary for Wine and Vidya, that's it. Installing multilib itself is straightfoward if you actually read Alienbob's directions and avoid doing stupid shit. The "Not Straightforward" part is the fact that you have to install Alienbob's Wine .SlackBuild if you want multilib Wine to work- and wine is not part of the multilib process.

>>931577

I respectfully disagree that its express purpose is government exploitation. The practical problem with SystemD it is over-adopted, and could easily be used as a common attack point for far too many distros.

But if the Three-Letter-Government organizations decided to use that for their exploitation, then it is what it is.

>>930113

>C- shitpost anon, do better.

>>931603

>>C- shitpost anon, do better.

Its true though.

slack's too outdated for me

Am I getting memed on or can a Linux shitter like me use this? I've only ever used Mint and installed a few other distros but always came back to Mint. I only really use the internet, I don't do much else with it.

My Slackware wouldn't install properly on a LUKS partition, and after two hours of fiddling around with no result, that's when I knew I would stop trying to use meme distros.

>>931681

You're getting memed. I used to try obscure and 1337 distros, until I recently switched to Linux Mint, because fuck it, it JustWorks™and I still have my freedom. Don't bother with Slackware.

>>930113

>NixOS

You mean the distro where you go through hell every time you want to compile and run a binary? The distro that has apparently no multilib support?

>>922109

This, but these days Mint is a bit better.

>>921253

Heh, this thread is full of plebs who don't know jack. Not only does Slackware indeed come with X packages, but it even did so back in 1995. All you had to do is run pkgtool and install the x* sets. It's fucking easy. It was always fucking easy.

>>921045

Arch has systemd though.

>>931731

This. Slackware is easy. There is a reason it's called "Slackware".

>>940690

who the FUCK cares you fucking kike

>>940711

I'm just saiyan.

>>940690

That's what Artix is for.

>>940711

>implying

>>921166

>most software sets/series are optional.

Not that nigger but if you install ap you'll need l and n for a lot of programs. d depends on a ap l and n. Of course, xap depends on x, which in turn depends on a ap l and n.

Hell, I'm pretty sure I found some programs in ap that depended on gtk+ which in turn depends on X. Point is, you're really not free with the series selection and I have no idea

At the end of the day that leaves you with a usually required install of at least all of:

a

ap

d

l

n

x

xap

Which is like 70% of slackware, the other 19% being the entirety of KDE+i18n, making e f k kde kdei t tcl xfce and y the only actual "optional" package sets.

Can't run it on m68k

It's garbage.

>>943418

>muh long-running loonix distro not working on some ancient processor makes it automatically garbage

What about celebrate the 25th anniversary of Slackware?

>>920334 (OP)

>official Slackware tools

>pure C

Have you even read their source? They're written in bash, sed, and awk. Fun fact, there's the :^) face in the comments of one or more of the pkg tools. I think it might be removepkg. Truly, this is the shitposter's distro.

>>943635

>not /tech/

You sound like a loser. Here at /tech/, we challenge ourselves. And, running a new OS on a separarate arch is a challenge. Grow up.

>>943665

Here's your (You) for your first non-argument

>>943673

Let anon grow up and figure out how to install on a different arch than mainstream.

>>943674

Try >>943418 for yourself

>>943675

get old verisons. Why do you need the newest?

>>943673

Okay, Mr. Benis. You've proved how smart you are.

>tfw Slackware doesn't have auto partitioning

>tfw too lazy

>>920392

>I need package managers for my everything.

There's a reason why people say that if you use distro [x] you will learn how to use distro [x] but if you use Slackware you will learn how to use Linux. You can either stay a script kiddie or learn how to do things properly. Compiling is not rocket science dude. In fact, it's pretty fucking easy.

>>952881

>Manually resolving dependencies for hours is the correct way

>Compiling it all from shit is the correct way

meanwhile real sys admins use redhat

>>952884

>Manually resolving dependencies for hours is the correct way

If you are having that much trouble working out dependencies, the only thing you are demonstrating is how bad you are at grasping Linux. There are tons of different ways you can work out your software's dependencies. It's not a problem unless you are one of those incompetents who thinks if he's having trouble the entire system must be garbage because only mega-autists could possibly do it better than you when in reality it only takes a little bit of thinking and applying yourself.

You know, if you're that hard-up for dependency hand-holding, slapt-get has you covered.

>Compiling it all from shit is the correct way

The fact that you don't understand the value of compiling your own binaries says a lot about you, really.

>meanwhile real sys admins use redhat

>real sys admins

>redhat

*facepalm* Suddenly I'm not as surprised at your opinionated brand of cluelessness. Leave it to a redhat user to not understand shit but be convinced that armed with their superficial knowledge they are a valued expert regardless.

Look pal, never call/insinuate yourself to be a real sysadmin or any brand of linux expert again if you cannot handle something as basic as compiling.

>>952905

Compiling isn't hard, it's just a waste of time and effort when other people have invested that time and effort for the general public. The only people who compile their system from source code are true autists.

>>920334 (OP)

>No dependency management

Stopped reading already. Useless.

>>952935

Enjoy having bloated binaries designed for ancient systems. Slackware in particular has 32 bit binaries that can run on i486.

Besides, FOSS or not, you can't trust a binary compiled elsewhere.

>>920334 (OP)

install gentoo

>>920351

What you're describing is not an issue of automatic dependency management, it's an issue of shit automatic dependency management.

>>920346

Well there is freeslack/freenix. Granted it is not on /current

Also you can always manually build and install the updates.

Https://www.freenix.net

>>952949

It's not just security/trust. Precompiled binaries just aren't going to be compiled in a way that takes proper advantage of your specific CPU's capabilities. You're taking a one-size-fits-all solution and the result is not just slower code but occasionally flat-out bottlenecks that make the program much slower than it needed to be if you had compiled it yourself. And that's aside from the fact that you can adjust build flags and change up little features and that occasionally the binary you receive has flat-out wasteful flags like debug enabled. There's a reason why Gentoo (named after the fastest penguin) is really big on compiling it yourself.

Some people would rather try to shell out for more expensive hardware whenever their PCs start running too slowly though.

>>952949

You can't trust a compiled binary /period/ unless you bit bashed the compiler yourself.

>>953721

>Some people would rather try to shell out for more expensive hardware whenever their PCs start running too slowly though.

The number of people who experience a significant speed improvement in everyday tasks from USE flags is asymptotic to zero.

>>953724

>The number of people who experience a significant speed improvement in everyday tasks from USE flags is asymptotic to zero.

<source: my ass

Can you use .deb installers easily on Slackware?

>>953767

>make a positive claim

>get called out on not sourcing it

<hurrr must be from your ass

Gentoofags BTFO again

>>953721

>Precompiled binaries just aren't going to be compiled in a way that takes proper advantage of your specific CPU's capabilities

Fucking lol. Binaries aren't going to be magically compiled to work better for an Intel Core i7-4790K over an Intel Core i7-6700. It's compiled for the ISA not the specific CPU you CIANigger.

Life must be rather worry-free for you low IQ niglets. GTFO.

>install literally everything

<dood lmao why worry about automatic dependency resolution, you don't need it

Slackware in a nutshell.

>>953787

The funny thing is that you fully believe this post means anything.

>>953818

When most 32-bit binaries are designed to work on an i486, you bet it makes a shitload of difference.

And yes, if you use an actual compiler it will be compiled for your specific CPU.

i've been seeing this distro for awhile but doesn't get enough time to try it.

i got plenty questions.

1. has anyone ever uses slackware in POS environment? i'd love to hear your experiences/story

2. how easy is this slackware to setup compared to debian stretch? (i'll just dump all /home with everything else since i'm only installing it on 60gb ssd)

3. probably retarted question but how is the POS printers support? (the one with serial or LPT port)

currently i'm seeking alternatives from windows for POS machine, i got web-based POS frontend (thankfully, didn't get restricted with propetiary windows os). my users will only use web browser, office software (like spreadsheet, wordprocessor, presentation) which easily could do with libre office or openoffice and Syncthing (for file backup and versioning).

so far i've been using Debian (since debian 7), so i only familiar with apt and systemd lately been trying alpine with xfce in vm though. sorry for my debianism, also thank you in advance anons

>>953915

>When most 32-bit binaries are designed to work on an i486,

Idiot why are you running 20 year old shit.

>if you use an actual compiler it will be compiled for your specific CPU.

That's for shit like existence of AVX instructions the guy you replied to is absolutely correct.

>>953818

You're right that it boils down to ISA. I was just oversimplifying.

>>953934

Never used it for PoS, but from what you're describing it sounds like it should be fine. If you're looking for a fire-and-forget install, slackware has you covered. Slackware's installation is very straightforward and only complicated if you choose to complicate it. Dunno about Debian stretch. Printer support should be fine, Slackware is a damn old (but actively maintained) distro and I would be amazed if it did not have proper support for serial/LPT ports.

>>953944

Because if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There are tons of people who still run netcat too, although socat makes a neat upgrade.

>>953786

https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/misc/deb2tgz/

Volkerding posted on Linux questions that he has money problems and store is not giving him any money. He asked for donations and help.

>>954781

Source?

http://www.slackware.com/changelog/current.php?cpu=x86_64

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/donating-to-slackware-4175634729/page11.html#post5883695

slacker here looking for advice, how would I automate the building and installation of slackware from the source dvd?

I'm more comfortable with slack, but the only laptop I have is a toaster, more or less.

>>920334 (OP)

>Install VirtualBox

>Download Slackware DVD ISO

>Attach to virtual machine

>It kernel panics immediately, no chance of installing

>Download 5 other distros' ISO (Fedora, Devuan, Void, Arch, Gentoo)

>All install flawlessly, without a hiccup

Why should I get Slack, again?

How are the Slackware derivatives?

>>943394

There is also per-package set of tags defining what is required, optional or recommended. You'd know that if you ran setup in full autism mode or read fucking slackbook (section 18.4). It's handled by tagfiles and they're in set directories. Example for L set: ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-14.2/slackware/l/tagfile

>>959909

Salix is pretty cool.

https://digdeeper.neocities.org/ghost/salix.html

>>954781

Is that separate from asking for money for health problems some years back?

>>960138

Of you have to read a book to do it, it's not very slack.

>>920334 (OP)

It's idiotic that an operating system named after the religion of bullshitting and slacking off made a package manager that makes you micromanage dependencies manually.

>>960175

That's because the guy who made it was slacking off.

>>960413

>If you're such a minimalist then dependencies will also go down, not up.

Not to mention you won't have a seven terabyte dependency manager sitting on your back.

Seriously, get rid of that melanin, Michael Jackson found a way and he became the king of pop, you can do it, too.

>>960413

>white

Meaningless term for new worlders.

>>960527

>meaningless term

Not at all.

If you have melanin (this includes jewlanin, the only melanin that looks somewhat light colored and causes malformed noses and the negroid curly hair) then you are not white.