/tech/ - Technology★

>>898217 (OP)

>What do you think of these changes?

I am surprised that those new tools are not part of SystemD.

>>898232

>>898231

>>898233

Ah yes, although I didn't include it because the switchover happened for most distros a while ago.

Although what's interesting is that Alpine is apparently doing pretty well in the docker world, and could expand into the router and server markets as well, and it uses OpenRC. Maybe we'll be seeing another init system shift at some point?

>>898237

You are total faggot.

Go back.

>>898244

no u

>>898217 (OP)

We are getting hardware-based DRM with the upcoming kernel lockdown so the normies can enjoy their Premium™ content.

>>898255

Look at the most popular apps on these stores, they are not free.

>>898217 (OP)

Gnome and KDE are not the only choices. Repos will never be replaced by appimages. And Linux has never had a real firewall, and for 99% of users, iptables is irrelevant.

Shit thread.

>>898217 (OP)

>Iproute2

The spacing triggers my autism

>X

>wayland

I have not idea if it's good.

>iptable

>nftables

what's the point ?

>Application distribution

Ultimate cancer to EEE free software with proprietary software.

I'm so glad I use OpenBSD.

>>898255

What really? This is extremely shitty.

>>898293

I installed it on an old Thinkpad and it's super comfy. I do run Devuan on my main machine though, but the poz is coming from all directions now and who knows how long they'll be able to hold out.

Thank science for apulse though.

>>898244

If you're saying that because you think i'm a shill for systemd in some way, i'm not.

My suggestion that a new init shift could happen was kind of a hope of mine. I'd love to see Alpine and OpenRC succeed.

>>898253

Yeah i've heard as much. I think Flatpak will win. Snaps, despite being advertised as universal, seem to be mostly an Ubuntu thing.

>>898255

I can understand why they'd do it though. Normies on Windows or MacOS likely already watch this premium content, so Linux not supporting it would seem like a major inconvenience to them, a fault in the OS, and a reason not to use GNU/Linux.

Good thing there's Linux-libre I guess...

>>898269

>Gnome and KDE are not the only choices

indeed. I never said they were, but they are two of the most popular ones.

If you want a tiling WM, there's Sway, which looks pretty comfy.

>Repos will never be replaced by appimages.

never said they would, but things such as this will have a place in our application distribution and installation.

>And Linux has never had a real firewall

elaborate

>and for 99% of users, iptables is irrelevant.

true. The syntax of things such as iptables and even the new nft is hard for the average person to wrap their head around. That's why there's convenient frontends like ufw (Uncomplicated Firewall) or its GUI version, gufw.

>Shit thread.

Sorry you feel that way. I think a lot of these changes are pretty interesting.

>>898281

>The spacing triggers my autism

Yeah it's quite weird. I suppose you could alias them though

>I have not idea if it's good.

I think it is. There's a lot of FUD about it, but honestly a lot of the issues it has are because of it being new. The main complaint i've heard is that it's not "network transparent" like X is. Once there's a compositor-independent option for remote desktop/screen and window sharing, that'll be sorted out.

>Ultimate cancer to EEE free software with proprietary software.

I don't see how it's EEE in any way. I do agree it could be a way to more easily get proprietary software though.

>>898293

BSD does seem like a good choice for those who want an extremely traditional experience. I might even consider checking out either OpenBSD or perhaps NetBSD at some point. I'm glad those will still be around (not FreeBSD though. They don't like hugs)

>Networking

This is fine, I've switched to using ip a while ago.

>GUIs

I haven't done enough research into Wayland, but it sounds like it requires a lot more work to create a WM since Wayland expects the compositor to do a lot of stuff.

>completely eliminating screen tearing

I don't get screen tearing with X out of the box.

>Firewalls

I have no opinion on this.

>Application distribution

If you want to release a system general release of your application just release a tar of the source with compile instructions. For switching to flatpack / snappies your distro essentially has to support another package manger. Switching to flatpack / snappies is the equivalent to saying that we would only need to create 1 package if all distributions used the same package manager. From the perspective of a Gentoo user it appears really idiotic. Gentoo essentially uses 1 package manager for everything at least it tries to.

AppImages I don't think are as bad, but they do result in bloated binary releases. A concern I have for it is that if they use a vulnerable library, you have to upgrade every application in your system which bundles it in instead of just upgrading the library in a single place.

>Do you have any examples I may have missed?

netstat -> ss

>>898340

>Who cares? Just fucking stick to ifconfig and avoid the redhat/CIA iproute2 suit.

wait, is iproute2 poetteringware? Does it have telemetry? I'll avoid a kneejerk reaction until I have some proof of it being compromised.

>Wayland is already in a fully usable state with all the apps you could want except for vidya. And even vidya will run in xwayland at this point. The only reason we haven't seen a switch is because most distros use shitty bloat that is X dependent and they don't want to get rid of because (((reasons)))

I fully agree. I've seen anons say shit like "Wayland is dependent on systemd avoid like the plague!!" or something to that effect. Couldn't be further from the truth really. GNOME certainly does, but it did that even on X anyway.

>Cool a second firewall. Just means more options.

A replacement firewall. I like the idea.

>Everything they are trying now has been tryed of old. There is nothing new in the application distribution, only what you don't remember. Nothing new under the sun.

Interesting. I am unfamiliar with these earlier attempts. Mind explaining?

I do think that these new ones will be quite successful. I hear pirates are starting to distribute games in flatpak.

>Systemdick and init systems.

see >>898237

>>898281

You realize distro-agnostic packages means it's easier to distribute newer versions of libre software too, right?

>A concern I have for it is that if they use a vulnerable library, you have to upgrade every application in your system which bundles it in instead of just upgrading the library in a single place.

This is a problem for Appimage and Snap, but less so for Flatpak.

>>898342

>I don't get screen tearing with X out of the box.

Me neither for years and years. Is this really a problem?

>>898344

>I've seen anons say shit like "Wayland is dependent on systemd avoid like the plague!!" or something to that effect.

So it isn't? I don't know shit about wayland, I don't keep up with new stuff.

>>898349

The BSDs wouldn't be able to use Wayland if it depended on systemd.

>>898349

>Is this really a problem?

Of course not, but it's on the list that shills have, like image previews in the file picker.

>>898352

Wayland is cancer of its own type and breaks everything. I've seen no proof that it's pozzed botnet shitware but I am betting we will find out it is.

>>898342

>This is fine, I've switched to using ip a while ago.

As have I. It doesn't make much of a difference to me overall. I just find it interesting because the basic ifconfig, route, and arp commands have been used for so long, and are now being replaced.

>I haven't done enough research into Wayland, but it sounds like it requires a lot more work to create a WM since Wayland expects the compositor to do a lot of stuff.

Indeed. Thankfully even though that will reduce options, there will still be plenty to choose from. You have GNOME, KDE, and Sway right now basically, and more will come later (I hear LXQT may be in the works?). I guess this ends up being the least harmful way to reduce fragmentation. We may not have the DOZENS of tiling WMs we had on X, but we'll have Sway and probably others. We'll also have our usual DEs. It's fragmentation-reduction without it getting to the point of the "GNOME as the only Linux GUI" conspiracy.

>I don't get screen tearing with X out of the box.

What DE? I hear it's pretty noticeable on XFCE if you don't use compton.

>I have no opinion on this.

Pretty much same, although my general attitude towards it is positive. It sounds like they have admirable goals.

>If you want to release a system general release of your application just release a tar of the source with compile instructions.

Not brainlet-friendly enough. Unless compiling can be made into a double click, that's not gonna happen.

>For switching to flatpack / snappies your distro essentially has to support another package manger. Switching to flatpack / snappies is the equivalent to saying that we would only need to create 1 package if all distributions used the same package manager.

I don't think these will be things that completely replace package managers. these I hear will be secondary options.

>netstat -> ss

I'll look into it

>>898330

>I don't see how it's EEE in any way.

It's not by itself an EEE scheme but with steam building up on loonix so the software community are going to be overwhelmed by something worse than normalfags (gamers).

Btw can somebody post the pic of the initial community invaded by external people ?

>I do agree it could be a way to more easily get proprietary software though.

It's going to be used outrageously since a lot of repositories won't/can't integrate directly there shit into the distribution, of course there's the exception of manjaro who went full retard already.

>>898330

You should also try out DragonFly if you want something innovative/new. The design really is something to behold; if there were as many users of it as CorporateBSD, we'd really get somewhere.

>>898357

Honestly when it comes to innovative and new ideas, as in COMPLETELY revolutionary designs, I look more to microkernel OSes. There's nothing practical still, but with promising projects like Genode/seL4, I'm optimistic. There's also the memes that are Redox and Fuchsia

>>898354

>Of course not, but it's on the list that shills have, like image previews in the file picker.

Ok, and what's this talk about it being "secure?" I feel old and confused and have no idea what these kids are talking about.

Yes, and?

>>898362

I feel that some arguments are best discarded after the most cursory glance. There is an effort to replace old, tried and true, established code and especially protocols with new, opaque, enormous and ever growing shitware which will be impossible to ever comprehend, see systemd.

I don't need to locate and file new bug reports in order to "prove" to the various shills that Poetteringware isn't secure and is in fact questionable at best. The record stands for itself.

There is an obvious ongoing conspiracy to take away our precious Free software and replace it with newly-developed shitware, and in the future I see new versions of that shitware going to more and more closed models. Even if it doesn't the sheer rate of change in the code precludes any useful checkpoint and audit procedure. If the new giant software like Firefox or systemd is on a more or less rolling release cycle how can it ever be trusted?

Bring back major, yearly or less frequent releases.

>>898361

DragonFly has a hybrid kernel, and you can also run virtual kernels in userspace. Last I tested it (2015) it outperformed Linux (was using Gentoo), so I believe it has the best performace of any Unix-like OS. HAMMER and HAMMER2 are also really great.

>>898368

>If the new giant software like Firefox or systemd is on a more or less rolling release cycle how can it ever be trusted

It can't. The conspiracy is much deeper than people think. It's about changing attitudes, not specifically about shit like systemd.

>>898365

I just find it fascinating. So much of what we've been used to in GNU/Linux is changing! Perhaps some of these changes aren't the most significant in the world, but they're still kinda cool.

>>898368

I don't really believe in the whole conspiracy angle.

>take away our precious Free software

>more and more closed models

Systemd, like it or not, is Free Software under a copyleft license.

My personal take is that Poettering is not intentionally a CIAnigger. He's just a pajeet/womyn-tier developer in charge of something he should never have been allowed to be in charge of. that's just my theory though. Perhaps there is a conspiracy, but I'm not convinced.

>>898374

Such is the nature of Linux. "GNU/Linux" is an illusion. At any point someone motivated enough could show up and completely replace the typical Linux user space with completely custom software. It could even be proprietary software. It doesn't have to be POSIX compliant either.

If you don't like it, the answer is to make your own Linux distribution. Of course, that's too hard for 99% of people here.

>>898376

>I don't really believe in the whole conspiracy angle.

>My personal take is that Poettering is not intentionally a CIAnigger.

I miss being a naive kid, hopeful and trusting of the world. Your post makes me very nostalgic.

>>898340

the (((reasons))) are that there are like 3 WMs for it. Once someone writes a library that people latch on to it will happen overnight. But wayland had a mis-step and decided to not write that library themselves.

>GNU isn't Unix

>old Linux isn't Minix

>GNU is being deprecated by systemd

>systemd+Linux is moving in a direction that looks like they're going to end up close to a hybrid of Win32+MacOS

>Plan9 dies alone

Where will existing GNU users migrate to, HURD, BSD, Solaris?

>Where will existing GNU users migrate to, HURD, BSD, Solaris?

GNU/Linux-Libre I suppose

https://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/linux-libre/index.en.html

>>898385

>>GNU is being deprecated by systemd

I swear to god I try to understand you conspiracy faggots but every single time you people fail to make any sense.

>>898389

Not trying very hard then, because it's not rocket science.

>>898389

>conspiracy

I can't even pretend to understand what you're implying. How is old technology being replaced by new technology a conspiracy or even a controversial prediction.

>>898389

Yeah, what part of GNU specifically is systemd depreciating?

I will say GNU could be depreciated at some point, but it won't be by systemd. It'll be by replacing GNU's libc with Musl, or the coreutils by some alternative. Which I guess may be a good thing if you're highly autistic about strict standards-compliance.

>>898391

>it's not rocket science

Apparently it is, for you people. You don't even know what you're talking about. It's just "systemd" or "poetteringware" with you people. Always a bunch of vague statements that provide approximately zero information or facts.

>>898395

>Yeah, what part of GNU specifically is systemd depreciating?

No idea.

>>898392

Ask the people who think the NSA is behind everything.

>>898399

>You don't even know what you're talking about. It's just "systemd" or "poetteringware" with you people. Always a bunch of vague statements that provide approximately zero information or facts.

I guess that's because it's a much larger topic than systemd specifically. Either you keep up with history and current events and see the patterns in society, or you're a faggot plebbitor like you who gets his worldview from university indoctrination and talks about "fud" on rationalwiki. I could go on about indicators all day and you'd never see it, just like a boomer who believes that 911 was some arabs with boxcutters.

>>898406

>I could go on about indicators all day

"""""indicators""""" aren't proof. Show proof.

>>898406

>I could go on about indicators all day and you'd never see it

Sure buddy. Sure.

>>898408

>pickle rick

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams. Try it out. Faggot.

>>898415

>>pickle rick

>Jet fuel can't melt steel beams. Try it out. Faggot.

absolute fucking gibberish

>>898419

no u

>>898232

>>898231

Perhaps one could destroy systemd by starting a new init system and advertising it as "the newer ,more modern ,reliable replacement to systemd" while pretty much remaking runit or openrc(plus making a optional new method to change daemon status using gui to make it "attractive" to new users).

This would destroy the reddit arguments.

>>898422

Fat chance. You'd need something that actually competes in moron usability to challenge it. That's a tall order seeing how you have to compete with CIA nigger level funding to do so. You have to understand, systemd isn't really a bad piece of software, if your goal is botnet OS (which most people don't care about.)

>>898349

I was on the newest Mint and did notice serious screen tearing when I watched Youtube videos.

>>898348

That's why I mentioned it when talking about AppImage.

>>898355

>Not brainlet-friendly enough.

Which is why distributions create packages for them. Alternatively the developer of the application could create the packages.

<What if the developers are too lazy to create packages

Then they are too lazy to create a snappy, flatpack, or appimage package too which makes your point moot.

>completely replace package managers

No. They ARE package managers. It's this dumb trend where modern systems (especially for developers) have 10 different package managers managing the system all at one time.

>I'll look into it

It's used very similarly. You should easily be able to use it with just prior knowledge of netstat.

>>898380

Actually there is a few more, like atleast five or six last I checked. Orbital/rust OS being one of them.

>>898412

Let's try the indicators. Corperations exist to make money. (((Jewgle))) amongst other corperations owned by fake-jews are now major contributers to the linux kernel. (((Redhat/CIA))), which is also owned by the CIA, is the major and sometimes sole contributer to almost all major GNU software now. Don't believe me? Check out the committers for GDB, GCC, GLIBC, iproute2, GTK2/3, GIMP, DBUS, XORG, and etc that I can't think of off the top of my head. Now realise a license like GPL or the cuck MIT can be changed at the owner's whim. Say redhat/CIA or jewgle were the only ones contributing to a software, they could fork the code and change the license from that point on and refuse to provide updates and sue anyone who did provide updates. This would be in line with their objective as a corperation, make the software closed source/different license and then charge people for it.

SystemD is a poor quality, CIA created, and shit tier RC system with bugs throughout the implementation. It requires many things people may not need such as: a dns resolver, a dhcp resolver, a mandatory and only type able to be used with it logger. These are just the things I can name off the top of my head. The DNS resolver for example, had a remote execution code bug recently that affected every systemD distrobution. SystemD has been pushed upon all modern distros so that as normies switch to it they feel like they are using windows again. Which means feeling insecure and being botnet on a easy use GUI. Take ubuntu for example, they used to be an ok GNOME based distro. Now they are unironically connecting to and advertising (((amazon))) just from their search results IN THE OS ITSELF.

This poster >>898370 is correct. On a huge scale it is slowly being undertaken to turn linux into windows lite for normies. That way you can have your jewgle botnet via DRM hardware devices and yet some FOSS for the autists like us. This requires changing the attitudes of the user base and controlling key software where this can be implemented. Such as the kernel, the general c library, and the display server and hardware.

>but anon if you don't like redhat/CIA possibly changing their license on GPL'd software just fork it

But you can't, once the license is changed you can only ever use old versions. If you contributed code to a forked/new version still under GPL redhat/CIA could sue you. This is just one example

>>898422

>Perhaps one could destroy systemd by starting a new init system and advertising it as "the newer ,more modern ,reliable replacement to systemd" while pretty much remaking runit or openrc(plus making a optional new method to change daemon status using gui to make it "attractive" to new users).

One problem, runit, the init system, already tried that years ago. The CIA has too much funding for propaganda and too many people infiltrating or having already infiltrated FOSS organizations like for implementing systemD and such crap. Also this >>898423

>>898430

NSA is the alphabet agency who works with RedHat and their reasons aren't quite as nefarious as you think they are. The US military and other government agencies use RHEL for their Linux distro of choice. If you check out CentOS, all of those government profiles for SELinux are right there for easy redistribution. The NSA has security guidelines for OSX and Windows as well. If you're afraid of SELinux and SystemD, don't use them. The nice thing about open source is you have a choice, whether you think you do or not.

>>898422

Problem is that systemd since long isn't just an init system but also swallowed like half of system services and other stuff. It's kinda a trapdoor mechanism (possibly cleverly devised that way), once a distro goes systemd and stays with it for some time, leaving it seems extremely unlikely, because you'd had to worry not only about replacing the init system, but also everything else that was relegated to systemd. Can you name a single distro which dropped systemd after choosing it as the default or only """init""" system?

>>898430

>can be changed at the owner's whim

How many of those projects require contributors to sign over their copyright to someone else? To change the license you need to get approval from everyone who has contributed / scrap their contributions.

>>898330

>Sorry you feel that way. I think a lot of these changes are pretty interesting.

No, I mean you don't have to follow them. They haven't eclipsed Linux. I mean I'm ignoring KDE and Gnome for so many years, and even GTK3, and Wayland (don't know what the fuck that even is), and obviously systemd, and I'm doing fine...

>>898430

They don't have to change the license to do what you're talking about. They're already doing it. The license is irrelevant, and they will probably just keep it GPL to keep up the pretense that somehow Linux is different.

Even people here fall for that trick, yourself included (given how you're spouting about "cuck license"). In reality, the only way for individuals to have any level of control over their software is to keep that software simple enough you don't need huge corporations to maintain it. RMS's theory of "you can just hire a programmer" isn't good enough. The software has to be kept simple. Terry Davis is way, way more advanced and intelligent than RMS ever was, because he realized this a long time ago.

>>898369

I'll give it a go, anon.

>>898217 (OP)

The only thing I have with wayland is if the vsync is going to be forced or not.

>>898231

>.gif (3.99 MB)

(You) need to go back

>>898354

>Wayland is cancer of its own type and breaks everything. I've seen no proof that it's pozzed botnet shitware but I am betting we will find out it is.

Could not be worse than X where any application can grab any other application's window, yeah?

>>898430

>If you contributed code to a forked/new version still under GPL redhat/CIA could sue you

Oh really?

>>898448

>In reality, the only way for individuals to have any level of control over their software is to keep that software simple enough you don't need huge corporations to maintain it.

You know what? It's true but it first needs to be written in a simpler language then. By simple I mean a language which is designed to not be a footgun and which makes it harder to conceal exploitable bugs.

Otherwise, the amount of code that can be realistically reviewed for all that shit is too low to be actually useful, except for really simple problems.

>>898473

…forgot to add: a good example of such language is Zig.

Easy to learn, easy to use, avoids most of the most dreaded pitfalls of C, can be used for everything that "required" C.

Not overly complicated unlike Rust and doesn't take safety to an extreme (which is somewhat futile as they still need unsafe blocks).

>>898217 (OP)

>What do you think of these changes?

Can't wait for flatpaks, appimages and Wayland.

>>898255

Oh shit wtf is this?

>>898422

>plus making a optional new method to change daemon status using gui to make it "attractive" to new users

That would be nice. I mean, Windows users change that kinda shit using group policy or registry or whatever the fuck they use. Why not have a GUI frontend to service management on GNU/Linux? It wouldn't even have to be a systemd frontend, as I imagine you could also make one for OpenRC.

As far as getting rid of systemd, I'll go with my above answer. I think a server distro that uses a different init will have to rise up into popularity. Whether that's Alpine or something else remains to be seen.

>>898424

Was it on XFCE? I hear that's where it's particularly awful for some people.

>>898428

>Which is why distributions create packages for them

You're missing the point.

Let's say it's some software that for whatever reason isn't in the repos. Let's pay attention to the perspective of the dev. He can either create a package for:

>Debian

>Ubuntu

>Fedora

>Enterprise Linux

>OpenSUSE

>Arch

>Void

>Mint

>etc

as there may be users of any of those distros who may wish to use his software.

OR

He could just make one package, using a distro-independent format.

This also works because the way most people expect to get software is by going to the internet and googling the software to find an executable installer. I would imagine these new tools would help facilitate this in a distro-independent way.

>>898255

adding to confusion is the fact that in the context of Linux, DRM also means Direct Rendering Manager or something.

you can't simply search commits by keywords…

I mean, do you have any specific proofs for DRM in Linux?

>>898531

>This also works because the way most people expect to get software is by going to the internet and googling the software to find an executable installer. I would imagine these new tools would help facilitate this in a distro-independent way.

You mean windowsfags? Gslapt and repos are so much more convenient. Also, rpm2tgz and deb2tgz make distros irrelevant.

This whole thread smells of a shill.

>>898530

afaik it has to do with HDCP, as well as some special DRM Netflix uses. I'm sure someone else has the details.

>>898434

Yeah I don't buy the whole "NSA does business with RedHat therefore RedHat is NSA spyware" That'd be like if the NSA ordered a bunch of Pizzas for the office from Papa Johns, all of a sudden Papa Johns is now botnet.

>But you can't, once the license is changed you can only ever use old versions. If you contributed code to a forked/new version still under GPL redhat/CIA could sue you.

They'd have absolutely no legal ground to stand on. If they did, Grsecurity would have sued the fuck out of Alpine already for including their unofficial Grsec patches.

>>898533

>This whole thread smells of a shill.

not at all. I use Void Linux (runit), and personally have no issues using a package manager or compiling.

However, not everyone is like you and I.

>Gslapt and repos are so much more convenient.

Until they don't have something Random person #3813240 needs/wants.

>Also, rpm2tgz and deb2tgz make distros irrelevant.

Looked em up. So they convert an RPM/Deb package into a slackware package? interesting

>>898473

You also can't review or modify code that is hidden from you by being BSD/proprietary no matter how simple it is, he is just a corporate shill trying to move people away from the GPL.

>>898565

>that is hidden from you by being BSD

what?

how exactly BSD license hides code?

(I am all for GPL but this part reads like bullshit)

>>898532

>>898530

>>898297

>>898330

https://lwn.net/Articles/750730/

The support for HDCP was also recently mainlined by Google, but is ostensibly unrelated.

>>898533

>>This also works because the way most people expect to get software is by going to the internet and googling the software to find an executable installer. I would imagine these new tools would help facilitate this in a distro-independent way.

Hello grandpa. People get their from app stores now, which is how these will be mostly distributed. But those frontends can be made for classic package managers too.

>>898567

http://doc.dl.playstation.net/doc/ps4-oss/

>open sores

>yet you can not get a single line of orbisos code

>>898346

Lets be realistic it's obviously going to be abused since normally the only way for normies to get was via the paquet manager, do you think GNU/linux will survive the exact same methodology of installation that a windows operating system as ?

And inb4 you get too

>they just have to verify the gpg signature

Don't bullshit me on that users have now knowledge of anything if they tried they wouldn't even be capable to find the source website or depot of where the software came from.

>>898567

>how exactly BSD license hides code?

The BSD doesn't legally oblige the company to share the source code when a BINARY is distributed.

Example:

>Git clone BSD source code

>Make modifications for X product/service

>compile it into a binary

>put it in your product/service

>sell the product/service to customers

>don't share the source because the license doesn't ask you to comply with it

>your customers can't have ownership the software

Another example but with a compiler:

>Git clone GPL source code

>Make modifications for X product/service

>compile it into a binary with a permissive licensed compiler that you've modified

>put it in your product/service

>sell the product/service to customers

>don't share the modified compiler because the license doesn't ask you to comply with it

>your customers own the software but they don't have access to the tools to change it

Either the software is libre or not, either the whole toolchain is libre or not.

>>898430

>Say redhat/CIA or jewgle were the only ones contributing to a software, they could fork the code and change the license from that point on

>Now realise a license like GPL or the cuck MIT can be changed at the owner's whim.

Technically, only future versions are affected by this. The truth though is the license doesn't actually matter for 99% of developers. It only matters to corporate lawyers. Some guy violates your license, what are you going to do? Spend millions on lawyers and waste years of your life suing him? Hilarious.

Even if you're willing to do it, people's governments might not be. Russian and chinese folks violate the GPL every single day and are utterly unaccountable for it.

Really, you're all better off dropping all pretenses and just throwing the code out there. Stop lying to yourself, you're not gonna sue anybody. Last time I came in contact with this GPL drama was in the retroarch/libretro emulation community. You wouldn't believe the amount of impotent nerd rage generated by licenses violators. They did absolutely nothing about it, as expected.

>On a huge scale it is slowly being undertaken to turn linux into windows lite for normies.

You're the normie, kid. If you weren't, you'd be out there maintaining your own custom distro with the exact software you want. But it's too hard, isn't it? You only care about freedom and Unix way or whatever if it comes nicely packaged, pre-chewed for your enjoyment, maintained by the tireless unpaid work of actual developers who are trying to turn Linux into something better. So instead of doing something, all you do is bitch about how the conspiracy is taking away all that free work you were enjoying.

>>898568

There is nothing wrong with this. The problem is how the hardware manufacturers own the keys that sign software. Don't buy toys that refuse to give you control of your own machine.

>>898716

W.r.t. Linux, the legal battle is already lost as it didn't switch to a license that prevents tivoization.

So yeah, all we can is boycott hardware which doesn't respect freedom.

>>898572

>communist cuck

>>898717

Of course not. Linus is not a nutjob like RMS. Tivoized hardware are toys, the kernel is much bigger than that. Remember that the kernel received lots of contributions from Tivo developers, so we're all better off. When Tivo is gone and forgotten, the kernel will live on.

>>898585

GPL requires you also release the tools needed to build the program.

>>898734

Yes, that's exactly how it is. You're bitching about the people who are "in control" of Linux, an operating system whose user space can be completely customized. Can't you see how pathetic that is?

Try not being a pathetic luser in your next life. Maybe then you'll be able to make your poettering-free system a reality. Until then, all you're good for is swallowing whatever shit gets pushed down your throat by the powers that are driving Linux forward.

>>898727

>GPL requires you also release the tools needed to build the program.

That's good but I don't remember that can you point out the line in the license please ?

>>898747

You're not helping your case.

Technology isn't like politics at all. You can just fork a repository, you don't need people's votes or approval to do it. It's as if you could suddenly make your own country if you disagree with the laws of your motherland, and if people like yours better they will move to it.

You people seem to be under the impression that this is a democracy. In fact, it's a dictatorship with hackers as the rulers. Lusers like you don't matter at all. I blame RMS and his endless politicization of technology for nutjobs like yourself.

>>898766

Pff, I'm posting from the beginning of my directory.

>>898766

It's what his discourse has been reduced to.

>>898769

You reduced me to it with your exceptional retardedness and faggotry. I blame you.

>>898766

Avatarfagging breaks the rules, report enough and he'll be banned.

>>898772

>avatarfagging

kek

>>898771

I just told you the truth. The fact is you're incapable of coming up with anything better than whatever Poettering came up with. All you can do is complain like a luser. I'm not sure about other people here, but it really gets annoying seeing children complain every day instead of actually doing something.

Fucking children talking to me about the "Unix way" when they can't even hack... Hilarious.This isn't your safe space, child. Deal with it.

>>898781

>I'm so annoyed seeing children complain instead of doing something... I'll just have to complain about it!

>hackers

>luser

>can't even hack

Where do you even come from? Are you a time traveling irc scriptkiddy from 1995?

>can't even poettering

I'll readily admit that. I don't have millions of CIA nigger dollars to burn on my projects.

>>898786

>Unix way

Are you from the 80s? Why do you resist change, grandpa?

>I don't have millions of CIA nigger dollars to burn on my projects.

RMS didn't, either. Unlike you, he was a true hacker.

>>898781

There's already several simpler (=better) alternatives to potteryware, but hardly any distros use them. They're just there for decorating the package manager database, basically. Few users are going to change from the default, so there you go.

>>898818

I'm calling it right now. He's going to tell you to make your own distro and get it as popular as the mainstream ones otherwise you're a "luser"

>>898818

>>898820

What's wrong? Changing the defaults is too much work for you? I guess it's a hard life, having to actually understand and maintain your systems and everything and not just run some package manager commands to update everything automatically. So how much do you really believe in this anti-systemd crap? Apparently, not enough.

The fact is systemd makes service management much easier. It's easier for users, but it's much, much easier for distribution maintainers than whatever shell scripting junk came before, I don't even care to remember. That's the actual reason they switched to systemd. Nobody wants to put in even one second of work for you thankless faggots if it can be avoided.

>>898825

Go back to SysV init or whatever it was, then. You're all such die-hard Unix wizards, right? I bet you could easily customize your installs so that they all work exactly the way you want them to. Right? Isn't that the whole point of installing Arch? So you can learn how Linux works?

>>898253

Flatpak seems to be winning against Snap atm, but can they auto-update? Snap seems to be the most newbie friendly option atm.

>>898905

What's wrong with downloading the source and compiling it yourself?

Fuck this newb friendly Pajeet shit.

>>898905

$ flatpak update from the CLI and Gnome Software handles updates automatically.

>>898917

>What's wrong with downloading the source and compiling it yourself?

>Fuck this newb friendly Pajeet shit.

Compiling it yourself does not support automatic updates.

>>898927

>use git

>make install clean

>done

It's like 2 commands dude

>>898928

>expecting these lusers to compile software

Even with autoconf holding their hands and making it a literal oneliner it's still too hard for them. Basically, if it's not packaged then it might as well not exist.

>>898932

>>898928

>Even with autoconf holding their hands and making it a literal oneliner it's still too hard for them. Basically, if it's not packaged then it might as well not exist.

Pretty much this. I have no issue with compiling and shit because I've been using GNU/Linux for a while now and don't have a phobia of command-lines. However, let's look at how software is installed on mainstream OSes.

On windows, you browse to the dev's website, download the .exe file for the program, and double click on it. From there you go through the installation wizard and you're done.

On macOS, you browse to the dev's website, download the .dmg file for the program, and double click on it. From there you see it tell you to drag the little program icon to your applications folder so you do that, and you're done. There's also an app store for some things.

On Android, typically you get your software from the app store (repository with a clean GUI), but if you want something outside of that, you go to the dev's website, download the .apk file for the program, and tap on it. From there, you go through some prompts, and you're done.

>>898932

>>898934

It's more work than simply updating the thing with git and recompiling. Also most people stick to their repos anyway and never compile stuff. Very few users have a ~/bin/ at all.

>>898934

Yes? What's your point?

>iproute2

I noticed this shit changed when i decided to install manjaro after using gentoo for the longest time.

It confused the shit out of me.

>>898349

Wayland is kinda like x

What They might be refering to is some of the concept window managers having dependencies on systemd.

Wayland in itself is just a protocal that can be easily implemented without any calls to systemd

i think

>>898217 (OP)

>distribution

Gee wee, can't wait to have to manually download, install and update every single piece of software like I had to do on Windows, while also having to navigate to install folder and double click the icon to launch it because that shit doesn't system-installs so you can't start it from the menu nor command line.

>>898941

Also immense bloat because every distribution carries its own libraries. Remember how fun it is to install directx 10 million times? That cancer will now also be on Linux.

I mean fuck me, at this rate Apple will be the only viable choice.

>>898939

Yeah you're right.

>>898942

The real problem is binary compatibility. Linux kernel hackers go to extreme lengths to maintain it, so when you upgrade kernel things just work. Distribution maintainers and even those behind key libraries such as glibc are monkeys, I'd be surprised if they cared at all about this. You can run any binary on any Linux, but you cannot upgrade glibc without breaking everything.

About Flatpak:

Is Flatpak tied to GNOME?

No. While Flatpak has been developed by people with a long involvement in the GNOME community it is not tied to any desktop. In fact, it was designed with the explicit goal of allowing it to build applications using any library stack or programming language an application author might want.

Is Flatpak tied to Fedora?

No. In fact, Flatpak and even Flathub are enabled by default on Endless OS and Linux Mint. The people developing Flatpak have a long history in contributing to and building Linux distributions like Debian, Fedora, and others, and solving the problems that arise when shipping applications for these platforms. Flatpak was built to be distribution agnostic and allow deployment on any Linux operating system out there.

Is Flatpak tied to Linux?

Yes. We are explicitly using many features of the linux kernel (bind mounts, namespaces, seccomp, etc) to create the sandbox that Flatpak apps are running in. It may be possible to use equivalent technologies on other kernels, but that would be a non-trivial amount of work, and we don't consider this one of our priorities.

Is Flatpak tied to systemd?

No. Versions of flatpak before 0.6.10 relied on systemd for cgroups setup, but this is no longer required.

Is Flatpak the same as xdg-app?

Yes, while xdg-app was a fine name to use during development we wanted something with wider appeal and more sparkle to it than xdg-app could provide. So as part of formally launching Flatpak as ready for use we decided to pick a more accessible and fun name.

>>898947

Not guaranteed.

>>898948

What not guaranteed? If your program subscribes to a specific version of some package, it will always be present, upgrade or not. Simply on account of this version of the package being in dependency list.

Anyway one of the reasons I don't use Windows is that I don't have to manually do the work the package manager does automatically. If that's gone I'll just go back to Windows because at that point there would be no fucking difference.

>>898949

Yes, everything is simple like that. Just put your dependency and the version on the list and it will just work. Just like your javascript packages, right?

My sides.

>>898950

The program also has to specify version, not just use it's base name which always refers to the latest. Now stop being obtuse and stop shilling for Windows-isms because everything about Windows is cancer and I don't want it to spread to other OSes.

>>898726

>Remember that the kernel received lots of contributions from Tivo developers

Which are worthwhile because …?

>>898932

What's the problem, exactly? When I started with Slackware (1995), that was the standard way to install software that wasn't included in one of the distro package sets. I was new to Unix, but this was fine as it didn't require any kind of deep knowledge. If you could get around in the shell, you could do this!

>>898934

So what's your argument? That you can manage your packages manually, like in shit OSes that don't have a package manager? Is lacking it supposed to be a good thing?

>>898954

>No one has a good overview of systemd except the CIA nigger committee that runs the project.

Nah, it's just you. There are lots of people out there who actually read manuals and source code, and are familiar with Linux systems programming. If you don't want to be one of those people, that's your problem. Just stop shitposting sbout stuff you don't understand.

>hurrr I AM going to complain XD

Direct your energy towards something constructive, instead. The problem with you people is you barely even understand the program you hate so much. You're all like the retards who keep reinventing make without bothering to understand it.

>>898960

They fixed problems in the kernel and everyone benefitted from the improvements. How hard is this to understand?

>>898977

It's not a problem. These conspiracy babbys can't even run configure scripts and make on the software they want to use. If some distro adopted a system they don't like, it's pretty much over for them.

>Mainstream Distributions for normies are changing drastically

Who cares.

As long as Gentoo and Slackware (and Linux-libre) are around, there isn't much to worry about.

>>898987

>Nah, it's just you. There are lots of people out there who actually read manuals and source code, and are familiar with Linux systems programming. If you don't want to be one of those people, that's your problem. Just stop shitposting sbout stuff you don't understand.

No u, CIA.

>>898990

Gentoo has become not much beyond a meme. Slackware has become a "ghost from the past" distro which still lingers on but nobody really knows for how much longer (while OpenBSD supposedly could survive without Theo, Slackware almost certainly won't without Pat). Besides Pat claimed years ago that adopting systemd is a possibility in the future should it become necessary one way or another.

>>898987

>you must be a kernel hacker to look at Poettering's bug log and suspect he's either incompetent or glowing in the dark

Even if you're a kernel hacker with dozens of high-profile commits do you have the time to audit systemd? It's over a million lines of code now. By the time you finished, even if you were a genius you'd have been at it for years.

You don't even have to be a conspiracy theorist, just open the damn bug log and look at the many critical vulnerabilities. I don't know where you shills come from but you need some new rhetoric, yours is very stale and worn. You're not fooling anybody, rather you're making people more suspicious.

It'd be a better plan overall to just leave threads like this alone, but the systemd criticism detector sets off the red light in your hamster cage and you get on your wheel and run run run like a good little rodent. Who's a good little rodent? YOU'RE a good little rodent!

>>898998

>Gentoo has become not much beyond a meme.

Memes or not, it ships with OpenRC and allows much more flexibility and personalization than any other distro.

Has good documentation and an IRC channel that works, as it's surrounded by competent people.

Not sure what you're seeking for beyond that.

>>899004

Saying systemd is shit is the same as:

The Tiananmen Square protestors were justified.

Muhammad is a faggot that loved to fuck pigs before eating them.

God hates fags.

Hitler did nothing wrong.

>>899031

>>899004

That is to say, keep doing it.

Only faggots can't comprehend a world without systemd.

>>899032

That's why they keep shilling it though. They use the same arguments every time, they ask why you, the shitposter they take umbrage with, haven't coded a replacement or pretend they don't know that it has taken over functions from other perfectly decent init systems, they will call you a brainlet and make references to systems theory, which in my view systemd barely relates to.

I think that the systemd shills like most shills blunder in a bit too hard and often. But there are Wayland shills now, we had our Pulse Audio shills for the longest time, before that we had Mono shills, we have Rust shills, anti-old-Thinkpad shills, shills who instantly derail threads about Intel's difficulties as of late, etc. It's the same exact type of shit that they do on Usenet as well. Many of the existing groups with traffic are just shills in flamewars with each other. It's well poisoning and it should be considered a crime, and the punishment is a lifetime ban from the Internet.

>>899034

It doesn't take anything over. You are perfectly welcome to use your own functions for your own system.

>>899039

>it doesn't take anything over

>an init system that is rapidly becoming an OS isn't taking over

It's trying to take over everything anon.

>>898934

And that's better than slapt-get (package name) how?

>>899034

Well, TBH Pulseaudio isn't that bad. For the longest time I couldn't get ALSA to send audio output through my USB soundcard instead of the in-built one, but Pulseaudio just did it. So fix ALSA, and maybe pulse will go away.

>>898934

>On Android, typically you get your software from the app store (repository with a clean GUI)

no, you get shit that runs in a java vm that comes pre-installed with the operating system. you can install the roms not the emulator. being able to get actual software on an android requires all kinds of badgoy things that 99.9% of the time equate to using an exploit to bypass the locked down system.

(((they))) want more than anything to do this with PC hardware.

>>899048

that sounds like your usb soundcard's problem, or your lack of configuration.

https://alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Module-usb-audio

alsa supports usb sound cards.

>>899048

Maybe (just maybe) we had something that worked *perfectly* before ALSA... Wait; No, that can't possibly be right.

>>899041

Not at all. It's doing its own thing its own way. You are very welcome to do other things a different way. The reason why you don't is because you're nothing but a shitposter with a strong but undeserved sense of entitlement. You do nothing but whinge about Redhat and their systemd. You're free to whinge but that does nothing practical by itself.

>>899051

No, I did all the .asoundrc and other "solutions" provided on the internet. Didn't work, pulse did.

>>899052

OSS?

>>899056

Now that's a strawman, not an argument.

>>899053

>Not at all. It's doing its own thing its own way. You are very welcome to do other things a different way. The reason why you don't is because you're nothing but a shitposter with a strong but undeserved sense of entitlement. You do nothing but whinge about Redhat and their systemd. You're free to whinge but that does nothing practical by itself.

You fuckers are like a broken record. Like with everything else in life it's allowed to have an opinion of something and voice it even if you're not making it. I bet you sit around and fret about art critics as well down there in Langley.

>hurrrrrrrrrr, y u have opinion on davinci's painting, just go out there and be davinci yourself you luser non-hacker duururrrrrrr

>>899062

You also sound like a broken record. You have the power to change your software. This power is called software freedom. It's very simple that you refuse to use that freedom to write the software you want. Instead of writing that software, all you do is spend your time bitching about Redhat and the fact that they aren't working to your entitlement. I have all the respect for people who do something about this, groups like Gentoo, and BSD systems, and Devuan spend their time writing software they want to see. Maybe they bitch 24 hours a day but they also do real work.

>>899063

0.04 posts per hour telling you how retarded you are is bitching "24 hours a day?" No one buys your strawman faggotry. And no one gives two shits about respect from you CIA niggers.

And no, if you flip through this thread you'll see a lot of legitimate points Anons make about why they're skeptical of systemd. Your arguments boil down to 1. NO COMPLAIN PLX and 2. it just werks XD

Since 1 is completely retarded all you have is 2. That's the same argument macfags use. Why don't we all just get macs? I bet you'd love that, CIA nigger.

>>899064

Now that is a strawman. If you follow the context, I never assert any of those two points. I'm very happy for you to be skeptical of systemd's purpose and implmentation. What I actually argue is the claim that systemd is taking over the functions of other init system and thatt this claim is false. Systemd does not take over anything. This is a fact.

>>899066

Just like google didn't take over search engines. It's a free market. After all, everyone is free to make their own google if they're not satisfied. XD

>>899073

That's exactly how freedom works. Google hasn't taken over any other search engine, they built their own without taking over other search engines.

>>899034

You don't even need to code a replacement. If you want to go back to the ancient shell script-based system, what's stopping you? Nothing but your own incompetence. The core fact of the matter is you can put whatever you want on top of Linux. This is what let people replace old init with systemd in the first place. So why don't you?

You need to treat your schizophrenia, kiddo.

>>899004

>hurrr CIA nigger

Doctors should intern your asses in a psychiatry ward. It's OK, nobody chooses to be mentally ill.

>>899051

>its the user's fault, even though poetteringware works

Never change.

>>899062

Your opinions don't matter. They're noise. Do you even read your own posts? Take your meds then read them. Loss of critical thinking is a psychiatric symptom.

The only way you can solve your "lmao everyone uses systemd now the world is doomed" problem is by making something much, much better. And quite frankly, systemd has set the bar extremely high in terms of features.

>>899064

It's so tiresome arguing with these armchair politicians. Let me give you the raw truth:

>everybody, user and maintainer alike, uses systemd because it makes their life easier

>nobody cares who's behind it

If you don't like the fact people are using systemd and are happy with it, then make something better. Otherwise nobody gives a single fuck what you have to say. Your non-technical discourse of fearmongering is quite simply hilarious.

>>899073

Plenty of people did. The fact is google presents the user with an extremely biased and also censored search results.

>>899080

please don't reply to this insane guy anymore

don't let him ruin the thread

>>899088

Nobody is forcing you to use Google. It is you yourself who choses to use it. If you don't like what Google does, the sensible way is to stop using Google.

>>899093

>nothing can affect you indirectly

Guess what, the brainwashing of my fellow Europeans to exterminate them does affect me.

>>899088

I don't use Google.

>>899108

You should. It just werks.

>>899115

I'd eat her cake.

>>899116

I don't know about that, looks like it could have been a libreboot dev to me.

>>898340

>Who cares? Just fucking stick to ifconfig and avoid the redhat/CIA iproute2 suit.

>wait, is iproute2 poetteringware? Does it have telemetry? I'll avoid a kneejerk reaction until I have some proof of it being compromised.

still waiting for proof

>>899145

It's like you still live in 2002 or something before even normalfags figured out intelligence agencies run the show. Boomer grandmothers have better a better grasp on reality than you.

There is no safe space nor bastion of freedom when the entire ecosystem of anything is bound by the botnet: NSA.

The pros? All those ilerminaty fuckers will be in jail soon.

The cons? A police state will emerge.

Mark my words my fellow cyberphreaker, cyberhackers, and trunkpunks.

Chaos awaits, and fuck systemd.

>>899145

Just read the source code.

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/network/iproute2/iproute2-next.git/tree/

>>899149

There's nothing wrong with iproute2. Unlike the old ifconfig, it's built with Linux in mind and uses it to the fullest extent. Systemd does the same thing, it uses features such as cgroups.

>>899156

wew

I don't even know C, nor do I have the time. Just point me to the file and line number.

Where do NixOS and GuixSD fit into this? They both in my opinion solved alot of flaws common distributions have with packaging and reliability, among other things.

>>899080

Plenty of people used facebook, real happy with facebook. Because facebook superior choice, else why so many use it?

Then one day they all got fucked good. All data stolen.

I never had facebook, or systemd. I'm happy lots of people did, because it makes it much easier for me to avoid nasty cianiggers when the bar is set so low.

>>899255

Facebook isn't open source, retard. Systemd doesn't come with with a ToS that requires you to sell your soul to the jew. Goddamn, the more posts you make, the more outlandish your posts become.

>>899260

You're one dense, lying motherfucker. I never said it's open source. I was only addressing your sorry excuse for an argument "lots of peoples use is so it's all good" by showing how retarded it sounds.

But you're too retarded to get it, you'll probably just keep spamming this thread with the same shit about how something's good because it's popular.

>>898258

You're confusing the word free to mean no payment. Free Software deals with software that allows you to use a program how you want.

Most commercial software is designed to put money into companies and deny control for the end user with DRM which handcuffs them.

>>899183

>Where do NixOS and GuixSD fit into this? They both in my opinion solved alot of flaws common distributions have with packaging and reliability, among other things.

I'd use GuixSD if it was stable. I don't care for NixOS. The Shepherd init and the guix package manager sound good in principle for easy package management and easier verifiability.

>>899276

Where? I agree with you.

>>899279

Guix also makes flatpak and snap obsolete, while the former tries to somewhat reduce duplication Guix eliminates it. But I don't think such a sane solution is going to become popular.

>>899053

I already switched away from using systemd and pulseaudio. It was very easy and I have a more stable system than people who use those pieces of bloatware.

Redhat is pozzed up with shills and spooks.

>>899063

>Instead of writing that software

Why would a person rewrite init? It's already been done over and over, there are tons of alternatives to systemd which do a better job using fewer resources.

You're trying to shift the goalposts again. The point is systemd is cancer and there are plenty of stable, tested alternatives available.

>>899264

It's wrong and you're a moron. I'm not performing mental gymnastics to convince myself of your schizophrenic worldview.

>>899265

>plenty of people did

By that, I meant "plenty of people came up with their own search engines", not "plenty of people use other search engines". The point was to highlight the fact they did something about it instead of bitching.

You're illiterate.

>>899307

Then use whatever shitty init alternative you like. Make your distro work with it. Fight the uphill battle.

>>899309

>>899311

I bet you're one of those faggots who think that if you only "work hard you can be president some day." I thought you clueless boomers died out after the CIA niggers went into overdrive and stopped caring about being inconspicuous, but here you are.

Calling people who have accepted that the power players in this world tries their best for a totalitarian neo-feudal dystopia for "insane schizos" haven't worked for years. Everyone just rolls their eyes at you these days, CIA.

>>899323

You're just being lazy and I'm calling you out on it. You have no right to ask other people to work for you if you haven't hired them to work for you. Therefore if you want some programming work, it is your responsibility to hire a programmer to make it happen. You really don't want to do this.

>>899333

>you can't criticize something you're not creating

And you're being retarded and I'm calling you out on it.

>>899336

Who says I'm stopping you from critizing Redhat? What I'm saying is that you're acting entitled while you are criticizing and doing nothing.

>>899331

You are the cianiggers you kike.

>>899339

Not wanting your CIA nigger cock rammed up your ass isn't "acting entitled."

>>899346

But entitlement is cock wants CIA niggers ram.

>>899365

b-but... it just werks?

>>899311

>Fight the uphill battle.

Why's it an uphill battle? I mean aside from shills trying to insinuate systemd into everything, there's no reason for it to be an uphill battle.

>>899392

Nobody is insinuating systemd into everything. There is no uphill battle for non-systemd systems because computing existed before systemd and it will remain feasible even with systemd.

>>899395

>nobody is insinuating systemd into everything

yes they are

>>899446

They don't even need to. Most distros didn't explicitly choose systemd, they inherited it from their parent upstream distro and figured that changing something that replaced like half of system services and whatnot is not worth the trouble. Devuan is an example how much effort is needed to provide a systemd-less version of a distro that went systemd.

>>898217 (OP)

This flatpak shit will be the death of linux, i swear. Eventually everything will be statically linked unportable garbage like windows

>>899481

When I need a Windows program, I most often get a portable version that will just werk in any Windows from XP (or even earlier) to 10, I unpack it into a directory (no matter if on local disk or on a portable USB drive) and it just werks.

When I need a Linux program, I can only hope that the particular program is in the <insert distro here> <insert version here> repository, if not, there's big fucking hoops to jump through already. Even if that is settled, I can't install the program in a self-contained directory, instead it installs itself dispersing its parts all over the place (/usr, /lib, /home, /bin, /etc.) and only after having taken a dump in like half of /'s dirs will it work. At least until I update some dependency which fact is not anticipated by the program, in which case it will randomly continue working (with luck), work with problems/crashes, or shit itself entirely.

>>899488

> I can't install the program in a self-contained directory

If the project uses autotools, you can just set environmental variables telling it to install into a directory of your choice.

>>899488

T H I S

H

I

S

Also with Windows programs, at least in my experience, you don't have to worry about dependencies. You can just download the program (whether portable or otherwise), and install it.

Compare that to installing a Linux program in the way all these "lel just compile it" fags suggest.

>make

>'you need randomfuckingshit.h'

>that's not a clearly and directly-named package

>go searching around to find what package has it

>install it; make

>'you need someothershit.h'

>repeat process for a while before you can FINALLY MAKE THE FUCKING PROGRAM AND INSTALL IT!!!

Linux desperately needs a common binary package system. One where you don't need to even think about dependencies and can just grab the actual program you want and install the damn thing.

>>898217 (OP)

the only sane alternative for wayland desktop will be LXQt

gnome works like crap and devs don't care

kde has too many deps

it's years in the future anyway

>>899493

Linux does have a standard binary format. All Linux binaries are ELF files

What is NOT standard is application packaging formats, and desktop environment APIs that really make suit complicated. And dependency hell was a thing on Windows too before the introduction of shit like WinSXS.

GNUfags will never adopt similar centralized interfaces though because they're too autistic to understand the importance of the user experience as a whole.

>>899507

We have a centralized interface. What you don't understand is the importance of asking friends to help you do difficult processes. We don't care about that because we ask our friends to compile and install free software for us.

>>899491

Even if it doesn't, you just edit the Makefile and change a variable or three.

>>899493

This is bullshit, unless the program you're trying to install has no documentation that tells you want libraries/versions it needs.

>>899507

Winsxs is cancer that can bloat up into dozens of gigabytes seemingly out of nowhere if you do as little as install updates to already existing things (like the OS itself, ironically). XP didn't have this and about the only "dependencies" a program could need was a specific version of .NET or MSVC++ (anyways those runtimes should be installed on any system).

>>899488

>Even if that is settled, I can't install the program in a self-contained directory, instead it installs itself dispersing its parts all over the place (/usr, /lib, /home, /bin, /etc.)

>let's make linux unusable as a multi-user system

>let's hide the files in a trillion application directories instead of having them in one place

>>899493

install gentoo retard

>>899507

>GNUfags will never adopt a package manager

>what is Guix

>>899145

>>899156

>>899159

>iproute2

The iproute2 utilities are a front-end to the Linux netlink interface and can do a shit load more than the old net-tools.

Have a read of the Linux Advanced Routing & Traffic Control HOWTO: http://lartc.org/howto/index.html

This howto was made in 2002 and mentions "how to do more with Linux 2.2/2.4 routing." And because ifconfig and friends still work I conclude Pottering was not involved.

There is an insane amount of cool shit you can do with this on your OpenWRT router that you would expect to only be found in expensive Cisco and Juniper hardware.

eg: tc has netem, from the man page:

       netem  Network  Emulator  is  an enhancement of the Linux traffic control facilities that allow to
              add delay, packet loss, duplication and more other characteristics to packets outgoing from
              a selected network interface.

>>899488 (checked)

THIS

>>899488 >>899618

AppImage was mentioned by OP and does this

the best package manager on linux is GCC

the best package manager on windows is InstallWizard

>>899481

>statically linked unportable

Lusers shouldn't talk about stuff they don't understand. You people spout retarded shit as fast as a gatling gun fires bullets.

>>899655

>GCC

I got your joke, but not that long ago, many programs are just perl scripts and a shit ton of libraries.

>>899488

>>899493

This works in Windows because, unlike in Unix, the program's directory is always part of the PATH. So there is such a thing as a program directory that has everything it needs to work and when resolving symbolic references the linker will look there first. It's important because Windows computers aren't managed by professional system administrators who value things such as single points of truth.

You can do the same thing in Linux, but you must ask for it explicitly. Mechanisms such as LD_LIBRARY_PATH let you control the shared library search on a per-program basis. New stuff like flatpak offer this feature, but it's certainly not the only feature; in particular, it takes advantage of relatively new kernel sandboxing mechanisms, which have recently become so powerful they allow you to attain root in your own sandbox (this caused a LOT of security holes, because root-only programs were never properly secured in the first place).

>Linux desperately needs a common binary package system

Linux kernel is exceptionally binary compatible. Breaking user space makes Linus come into your home and murder you in your sleep. This is the reason why the kernel developers are so trustworthy. You can upgrade your kernel at any time, and even the stupid ass mistakes they made in the 2003 will still be supported. If it breaks anything, it's a bug.

People like glibc developers DO NOT act this way. You can't upgrade glibc and expect programs to just work after that. Who knows? They might have fixed some bug people depended on. Glibc developers are lesser developers, like all GNU people they believe you can just fix everything by recompiling from source, obviously favoring free software. If even glibc, the most widely used library in Linux user space today, fails to maintain a stable binary interface... Yeah, there's no way some minor library developer has a snowball's chance in hell.

So now we have things like containers which ship with all the exact versions of libraries your program needs to work, all frozen to the exact version you need.

>>899507

>GNUfags will never adopt similar centralized interfaces though because they're too autistic to understand the importance of the user experience as a whole.

Look, I hate GNU people as much as the next guy, but what you're saying is wrong. It's not really "autism" or "inability to design a coherent user interface", the truth is they're far more dishonest than they lead people to believe.

The real reason they don't care about binary compatibility is they like giving free software advantages. While Linus Torvalds understands the value of having a old ass binary he compiled in the 90s run completely unmodified on the modern 4.x kernels, GNU people believe you can and should simply recompile everything from source. Because the source is always available and free, right? Well, the company that went out of business won't be able to simply recompile from source, and while Linux itself will be perfectly willing to run said software, GNU faggots effectively conspire to prevent that from happening. It's a strategy. Not only that, brainwashed people don't even recognize that it's happening. Not even the antisemitic retards in this thread realize that it's happening.

These people are mentally ill. In their minds, everything they can justify as "it prevents people from using proprietary software" or "it gives free software advantages" is absolutely OK with them. This is why Linux user space sucks. It's why Arch Linux breaks sometimes when you upgrade to the latest packages. This is why you can't trust that the system will work as you expect it to.

>>899616

Yes. One key element of "poetteringware", as people here call these new programs, is their Linux-centrism. It's really built with Linux in mind and not really meant to be portable to BSDs, Mac OS or whatever. This is why they'll always be much more powerful than whatever old junk they're replacing, and why they will always provide much more value than risk.

This pretty much written on the README:

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/network/iproute2/iproute2-next.git/tree/README.devel

>Iproute2 development is closely tied to Linux kernel networking development.

>Most new features require a kernel and a utility component.

>>899646

You can be sued by anyone for literally any reason, even completely made up reasons, and it's up to the judge to determine who's right and it's up to you to put down the cash for a lawyer and defend yourself. It doesn't even matter if the company loses, their goal is to burn your cash and waste your time until you settle out of court in unfavorable terms. It's a legally-sanctioned economic game that's not dissimilar to extortion.

Hope that doesn't spike your paranoia too much. Sleep tight.

>But legal recourse is much more neccessary as it deters people from writing alternatives in the first place as a form of mental warfare.

Nah. Linux wins without suing anyone. It wins because Linux moves exceedingly fast. You could close up the source and modify it with your enhancements and even ship it out. While you'd technically be violating the GPL, I doubt Linus will give a fuck. The fact is Linux moves forward so fast it makes it very difficult for companies to keep integrating their work with new versions. It gives them an extremely strong incentive to push their work upstream so it can be mainlined and maintained. Even unscrupulous chinese companies who flat out told them "sue me, you'll get nowhere anyway" saw the benefit here.

Upstream your work or die. Linux has no time for these moronic companies who refuse to share code, it leaves them in the dust. They're toys and the kernel is bigger than them.

>>899671

>GNU people believe you can and should simply recompile everything from source.

There's nothing wrong with that. It just takes 1 emerge command to do so.

>>898297

What's apulse?

>>899689

It's a wrapper for applications which "require" Pulse Audio, which makes them work flawlessly with ALSA, no Pulse Audio needed.

>$ firefox-esr

<aw dang no sound with youtube because I removed Pulse Audio

>$apulse firefox-esr

>sound just werks

>>899671

>The real reason they don't care about binary compatibility is they like giving free software advantages. While Linus Torvalds understands the value of having a old ass binary he compiled in the 90s run completely unmodified on the modern 4.x kernels, GNU people believe you can and should simply recompile everything from source. Because the source is always available and free, right? Well, the company that went out of business won't be able to simply recompile from source, and while Linux itself will be perfectly willing to run said software, GNU faggots effectively conspire to prevent that from happening. It's a strategy. Not only that, brainwashed people don't even recognize that it's happening. Not even the antisemitic retards in this thread realize that it's happening.

Was this ever a secret? I thought it was obvious. There's nothing wrong with this, either.

>>899708

>There's nothing wrong with this

That's just like your opinion man.

>>899708

>>899686

Enjoy your ridiculously unstable software, retards.

>>899918

I will enjoy my perfectly stable API. My software ABI is stable because the programming experts make it stable 😁 😁

>>899918

Funny. The software I install are completely stable.

>>899691

I bet it works real well when I plug in a USB microphone and want to use it on a firefox chat program.

linix os for fags

>>903390

I already know you're going to say I glow in the dark, but HURD will *never* finish. Probably because once they had Emacs, GNUtards realized they had no need for another OS.

>>903391

It's a pretty good fork or Darwin with GNU instead of XNU.

>>903390

>GNU/Windown SyndromeD

>GNU/Hurd

>GNU

both are shit

>>903390

Why is "multi server" a selling point?

>>903430

https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/faq/multiserver_microkernel.html

>>899493

Turns out reality is different, kid. Windows program definitely have dependencies, the thing is that (most of) the required DLLs are shipped with the program itself, which has the large disadvantage of significantly increasing the size of the binaries.

Or, an executable is compiled with static linking, which makes it not depend on any external library, but that increases the size of the binary as well.

The Linux way is usually to use dynamic shared libraries, so that disk and memory are saved, because the same code segments can be shared by several programs. Shipping those libraries with each program release would make package larger than they need to be, hence the need for a package manager, which works a million times better than downloading Babylon Toolbar, OfferBox and a couple more adware programs from Softonic before eventually getting the program you want, which is the Windows way.

Package managing makes the whole system extremely secure and stable, when not administrated by incompetents, and unless you're trying to install really obscure shit, or Windows stuff (lmao), you should be covered by your distro's repositories.

As for what you mention with the ./configure && make && make install way, they usually come with a README file you ought to read. More often than not, they will detail which packages are needed, and a lot of them even give you the command needed to install them.

>>903430

>Why is "multi server" a selling point?

Easy to swap out kernel modules without restarting

The UNIX Way(TM)

Security

Ability to interact without arcane programmatic syscalls (see Plan9)

Really fault tolerant, can't crash it

https://youtu.be/vlOsy0PZZyc?t=124

>>903457

If I can survive crashing my mum's hyundai I can crash anything.

That's it! time to go home~ buh bum bum buh bum bum

>>903514

Kill yourself retard monkey nigger.

Is anyone implementing WOF and WOF2 font support? I can rip the fonts but I can't import them on ubuntu 16.04.

>>903523

haha was that your video?

That's it! time to go home~

windows/linux now

>>903430

Wow, let me plug in this device driver -- written by some Taiwanese kid who wrote it in 30 minutes and never tested it because his Chink boss was breathing down his neck about deadline -- directly into my kernel.

Microkernels keep em in user space.

>>903732

frankly if a device driver hasn't been written by virgins that exclusively crosspost between /r/incel and /r/unixporn then it's a driver you shouldn't link anywhere.

>>899525

>for the last fucking time, faggot, heating up metals increases plasticity. I know memes are memes but don't act like a mouth-breathing liberal arts graduate.

Different anon. Polite sage because unrelated, but this argument has been had before and I feel like you haven't been present for it. If I recall correctly, the argument is that there wasn't sufficient jet fuel available to produce the required heat to even raise the elasticity of either tower's frames to cause a collapse. Furthermore, there was quite a bit of molten steel found in the wreckage of the towers, hence people suspecting demolition charges were used. Not to mention the fact that Larry Silverstein took out an insurance policy on the towers about 2 weeks before the attack, which I'm sure most people would find to be grounds to suspect insurance fraud.

tl;dr it's not just a meme, it's a lighthouse.

>>898340

bro playonlinux

>>903390

If we were to start from scratch, the basic idea of the HURD has some merit. But Mach 3 is just two busted to build on, as we've seen.

>>913716



Why don't projects just use the CoC from the Linux Kernel?Why

>Code of Conflict

>----------------

>The Linux kernel development effort is a very personal process compared

>to "traditional" ways of developing software. Your code and ideas

>behind it will be carefully reviewed, often resulting in critique and

>criticism. The review will almost always require improvements to the

>code before it can be included in the kernel. Know that this happens

>because everyone involved wants to see the best possible solution for

>the overall success of Linux. This development process has been proven

>to create the most robust operating system kernel ever, and we do not

>want to do anything to cause the quality of submission and eventual

>result to ever decrease.

>If however, anyone feels personally abused, threatened, or otherwise

>uncomfortable due to this process, that is not acceptable. If so,

>please contact the Linux Foundation's Technical Advisory Board at

><tab@lists.linux-foundation.org>, or the individual members, and they

>will work to resolve the issue to the best of their ability. For more

>information on who is on the Technical Advisory Board and what their

>role is, please see:

> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/programs/advisory-councils/tab

>As a reviewer of code, please strive to keep things civil and focused on

>the technical issues involved. We are all humans, and frustrations can

>be high on both sides of the process. Try to keep in mind the immortal

>words of Bill and Ted, "Be excellent to each other."

It's perfect! Gets the point across without putting marxist meanie rhetoric in there! ^_^

Why can't people just be faggy and OwO without trying to control peoples projects?

▶Anonymous 05/13/18 (Sun) 15:42:20 No.913710

Why do we need yet another non-technology politics thread?

▶Anonymous 05/13/18 (Sun) 15:47:20 No.913712

here is my code of conduct

1. no faggotory(trannies, gays, anime, furries etc) including avatars and nicknames

2. if you're a woman don't admit to it, and write as a male

3. if someone is harassing you, you must defend yourself, stronger will win

windows has dependencies just like all software you nigger. there's no way around it. everything has dependencies and all solutions have different downsides

>>899525

There was no jet fuel in WTC7 and explosives were used. This paper has not been challenged since publication in 2009.

http://www2.ae911truth.org/downloads/Full_Thermite_paper.pdf

>Based on these observations, we conclude that the red

layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC

dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating

nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or

explosive material.

On thread topic, install Gentoo becomes less of a 'meme' and more of a necessity.

>>905537

>But Mach 3 is just two busted to build on, as we've seen.

Care to elaborate please ?

>>913716

Yeah I've been aware of this they also began to infect the guile community.

no shit

microshit and redhat are taking it over and destroying it

we'll ALL be forced to switch to gentoo or arch in a few years, those who dont know how (most people) will come under the CIA's full grasp just as much as windows users

>>913760

or arch? Why?

>>913728

>On thread topic, install Gentoo becomes less of a 'meme' and more of a necessity.

It's been that way for years if you were paying even the slightest amount of attention to security related topics. So install gentoo already faggot.

>>913792

>Arch

Don't install Arch because it has systemD and its repos' quality is going downhill (missing/expired gpg sigs every month lol).

>>913797

This. It's otherwise impossible to get rid of all of that FreakDesktop stuff. Avoid systemD, pukeaudio, avahi, dbus, etc.

It's time to install gentoo.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VjGSMUep6_4

>>913842

Never had a problem with arch.

>>913842

Ok I know about the others, but why are avahi and dbus bad?

>>913842

arch has systemd? dont you install everything for arch from scratch? if so, it shouldnt be too hard to replace the init system, it's almost doable on mint and other distros

>>913921

Dbus is insecure cancer trying to promote userspace only IPC when you already have sysinitv IPC to use that works with more unix systems and doesn't bring any more bloat in then the kernel does. Also (((Redhat))) developes DBUS along with gnome so they are linked together in many insecure softwares.

>avahi

Even I have never heard of this one. Maybe it is just more potteringware?

>>914019

D-Bus has RPC and a bunch of other useful shit. People that complain about it are the same people that complain about PulseAudio AKA they have no idea how useful most of the features are.

>>913723

The problem with these bundled "solutions" is that faggots will download their "appimages" and "flatpaks" from anywhere, including shit sites like Softpedia, CNET, etc., which are prone to packing malware/spyware. Then we'll have a repeat of the early 2000's Windows malware landscape on Lunix, and these faggots will start demanding their "Lunix antivirus". All because they can't bother to install their software correctly.

Bundling dynamically linked libararies (i.e. what Flatpak/Appimage/Snap do) is shit and suffers from the downsides of both static and dynamic linking: you'll end up with 20 outdated copies of the same library you can't update, negating any benefit provided by dynamic linking, and what's worse, they'll be loaded IN MEMORY. Flatpak may be the only salvageable one because apparently you can get it to use system libs though.

>>914019

>>avahi

it's a multicast DNS and DNS service discovery daemon, similar to Bonjour. so your computer can automatically discover devices on the network, instead of having to statically configure everything and write their numbers down like a nigger.

>>914026

How would one go about contacting you?

>>914026

>So u can't use RPC without dbus?

Are u really this dumb

>>914028

cuteposter@cock.li

>>914029

you just said D-Bus has RPC, which implies to me that you need D-Bus for RPC, when clearly this is not the case.

>>914032

>which implies to me that you need D-Bus for RPC,

God no something having a feature does not imply it does not exist in other forms. This is one particular very convenient place for it.

>>914005

>arch has systemd? dont you install everything for arch from scratch?

This is what Arch fanboys (fangirls (male)) want you to believe. But in reality, you can't switch the init in Arch (it isn't practical; you must use a fork of arch). Arch isn't minimal by any means. The packages depend on stuff like avahi and systemdick. atm, Gentoo is unironically the most sane distro.

>>914022

>This one daemon can access everything and I think it's a good idea

Enjoy your botnet :^)

>>914101

Last time I checked that Sway wm was kind of buggy with init system other than systemd. Is the bug fully fixed now?