/tech/ - Technology★

get with tablets bozo you dont need "buttons" or "mouse" egghead, just point with a finger fag

what are you a retard?

only good UI is the one that gets the fuck out of your fucking way

>>893637

they just described 95% of all Linux programs, including Linux itself

>>893655

nigga said "Aflac" one too many times

>>893651

>poorly documented

>Linux and Linux programs

You're retarded

>>893651

That's the joke.

>>893655

>bird (goose?) has teeth lining the rim of its beak

>if it weren't enough, it also seems to have yet moar teeth lining the rim of its tongue

interdasting

>>894140

Sorry. I don't use software written by trannies and pajeets.

>>894160

All modern software is written by trannies and pajeets

>>894158

I thought so, too. I didn't know that about their anatomy.

Polite sage for offtopic.

>>893629 (OP)

> Don't make buttons, menus, gauges and other stuff appear and disappear

I have clicked on "use this device for backup" far too many times in Windows 7 after inserting a usb stick due to the change in layout 1 second after the dialog comes up. If you can't do the layout when the window appears, kill yourself and don't write software. This goes for websites, too.

>>893636

This is an insult to flat. Even a DFC has some definition.

>>894198

I mean you say that like it's a bad thing

>>893629 (OP)

You forgot to mention...

>eliminate all pop-ups, they’re fucking annoying and nobody likes them. They appear from nowhere and demand you read them and won’t go away until you decide whether to hit cancel or ok.

>>894207

Right, and pretty much no one does it. "Do you really want to close without saving?". Yes you fuck, get out of the way.

>>894207

Now that you mention this I want to find the inventor of popups and annoy him until he seppukus himself

>>894163

>All modern software is written by trannies and pajeets

this is mostly true. and it is as it should be.

open-source = trannies

commercial = pajeets

consider the following-

as any technology progresses across time, the price of it drops--but the people making it change as well.

it begins with the wealthiest and most-educated workers, and progresses away from them, to the poorest and least-educated workers

>>894179

Anybody tried out his Cat/LEAP editor's interface to see how it compares with vi/emacs?

>>894207

The proper term is "modality"

>>894181

I fucking hate this shit so much I got angry just reading this

>>894207

No, they are adequate at times. It's too easy to slip onto the close button.

>>894274

Why not make the close button double-click?

>>894201

>those title bar buttons though

look very non-text tbh

>>894253

>open-source = trannies

Why would open sores have a tendency to attract trannies and lose non-trannies over time?

>>894228

That popup dialog that is a nuissance >95% of the time will still save you from accidentally discarding your work once in a blue moon.

>>893655

hands off my goose, bastard

>>894369

Autosaves every few minutes are a better way.

>>894380

few minutes?

why not automatically and transparently? like Sublime Text does

>>894228

How often do you open a productive program, do some shit with it, and then close it without wanting to save your progress? That shit has saved me countless times.

>>894380

A normal person can make a lot of progress in a "few minutes", pajeet.

>>894380

autosaves are garbage. Every editor should have automatic version control.

>>894380

Autosaves are discarded on close. They are for when the shitty app crashes

>>893651

found the brainlet

>>894391

It's happened a lot. I'll start to edit something in vi or create a new file, and then decide what I was going to do is wrong or come up with a better idea, and then just :q!

>>894228

You're too goddamn finnicky.

>Alt-F4

>Alt-n

Nuisance gone in 0.1 seconds

>>894380

>autosaves

<fuck around with file

<don't mean to save changes

<10 minutes pass, autosave triggers

<try to undo back everything

<undo list doesn't go that far back

yeah well, fuck you

>>894474

>:q!

Use ZQ instead (pinky on right shift).

Also, ZZ saves (if changes were made) and quits.

>>894391

>How often do you open a productive program, do some shit with it, and then close it without wanting to save your progress? That shit has saved me countless times.

Often I have two files open but only want to keep the changes in one of them. I've literally never forgot to save my shit, Ctrl+S before close is hardwired into my brain by now.

>>893655

>you are fucking goose all life since you can remember

>one day someone grabs you by the neck and suffocates you

>you are helpless and can't do shit

>the end

>+++

>no profit

>>894498

>zz saves and quits

doesn't x do the same?

>>894391

all the time, you stupid nigger. for example temporary stuff in notepad. of course i just press the close button and then alt+n

>>893631

t. retard

>>894198

Please report yourself to the nearest gassing station immediately.

>>894571

>>you are fucking human all life since you can remember

>>one day someone shoots you with heart attack gun or plants you some "Новичок" nerve agent

>>you are helpless and can't do shit

>>the end

>>+++

>>no profit

>>894620

A real text editor keeps all the opened files in tabs, saves the session if you close the editor, and resumes when you open it again, including files that haven't been saved. And it won't ask for confirmation about tabs that have never been saved as files, and don't have anything in them.

How about you stop using shit software. If I make a program that shows a popup every time you click it, that means my program is shit, not that popups are shit.

>>894305

>Improper greentexting

>tbh

way to show your reddit.

lurk more

The only truly unforgivable sin is focus stealing.

>>894740

>Be typing away in a login page:

>anonimous@example.com\tpassword1234\n

>botnet app steals focus, posts it to every monitor on planet.

Every fucking day!

>>894745

>be typing post

>randomly, out of nowhere

>OH HAI FAGGOT ASS LUSER I DOWNLAOD SOME SHITTY UPDATES AND INSTALLED THEM DO U WANNA REBOOT NOW

>focus <space> stealing <space> is <space> a <space> menace <enter>

>OH NICE I SEE U WANNA REBOOT IM HAPPY FOR YOU SEE YOU IN 2 HOURS AFTER UPDATES HAVE BEEN APPLIED

>5 hours later OS boots up again

My blood pressure rises when I think about it.

>>894763

>trope

DON'T

-t. pre-crash troper

>>894768

>pre-crash

?

>>894772

It seems TV Tropes was infected by the SJW virus.

>>894179

You have a pdf, buddy?

>>894768

TV Tropes has always been, and always will be gay. Just like you.

>>893651

I agree. The UI on the Linux kernel bothers me to no end.

>>894750

>using terminal editor

>computer a little groggy because it just booted up 5 seconds ago

>go to do something else

>terminal editor steals focus

EVERY TIME

>>894253

That's a great explanation, thanks

>>894772

The Great Crash, the first time the entire site imploded due to DDOS, and had to be restored from Google/Wayback cache, because Eddie didn't back up anywhere near often enough.

>>894773

The site's downfall IMHO was before SJWs, and would better be described as a rulecuck/no fun allowed coup in what had before been a pretty much unmoderated site. By the time SJWs really hit around 2012, the site's soul was long dead in my eyes.

>>894782

Maybe, but much like 8chan, it was also fun.

>>893629 (OP)

>Don't make buttons, menus, gauges and other stuff appear and disappear.

Do you prefer cupboards with glass doors to wooden ones?

>Don't resize the dialog or its controls automatically

Usually it's your system scaling preferences that manage that. My dialogs don't resize at all.

>then it's assumed that the other version is for desktops: this means mouse and keyboard. Stop giving desktop users your touch optimized interfaces

Stop using that 96dpi CRT monitor, gramps. My Retina display does not have this problem. Try visiting those websites on 50% scale to see how they look for normal people.

>>893631

Mouse is a substitute for lightpen input interface with is in fact a skeuomorph for normal pen which had a predecessor in form of stilo, a carved wooden stick for clay tablets which came as a more robust way to keep data compared to ink and brush on stone which was preceded with finger, ink and stone walls.

A computer mouse and GUI pointers are mix of skeuomorphs for both finger and pen.

UIs should only be a frontend to text commands.

>>894807

>Stop using that 96dpi CRT monitor, gramps. My Retina display does not have this problem. Try visiting those websites on 50% scale to see how they look for normal people.

bullshit

do you know about DPI scaling?

>>894807

>Do you prefer cupboards with glass doors to wooden ones?

Yeah, that analogy actually works better in favor of stable interfaces that better exploit muscle memory.

>Usually it's your system scaling preferences that manage that. My dialogs don't resize at all.

OP was referring to windows that animate to change size, shape, and position when changing modes.

>Try visiting those websites on 50% scale to see how they look for normal people.

OP's not referring to different DPI scales, but to having giant buttons and text fields that have labels ten times bigger than body text, to compensate for the imprecision of conductive touchscreens.

>>894792

>imploded due dto DDoS

My sides. They actually lost data over a fucking DDoS? What database were they using?

>rulecuck/no fun allowed coup

Are you talking about when they deleted the awesome tentacle rape page because of google ads? I tink they also dumbed down pages so the tropes listing wasn't very specific. I used to go to a page and see literally hundreds of examples, now it's been "cleaned up". They don't like people documenting tropes for real life personalities or stuff like panty shots.

>>894974

>What database were they using?

Don't remember, but judging from their use of some incredibly ancient version of PMWiki, LOOOONG after MediaWiki had become the standard, probably not one up to date or properly configured.

>Are you talking about when they deleted the awesome tentacle rape page because of google ads?

>They don't like people documenting tropes for real life personalities

That was a bit later, although it certainly helped accelerate the problem by giving more "justification" for recruiting more mods (from among the worst lickspittles) and giving them more power, in addition to forming sections of the site like TRS & Crowners that functioned solely to cultivate grievance-mongering from busybodies.

>I tink they also dumbed down pages so the tropes listing wasn't very specific. I used to go to a page and see literally hundreds of examples, now it's been "cleaned up".

>or stuff like panty shots.

Just purging racy stuff (TBH the bulk of that was self-indulgent fanfic filler that didn't show up until newfags came along) would've been infinitely less lame than the bulk of what happened, which was purging "negativity". Anything that expressed disdain, sarcasm, or disapproval, trope or example, was purged. And just for good measure, anything that resembled conversation, humor, irony, wordgames, "obscure" references (seriously! I got three tropes purged due to highschool-level history references!), or worst of all "controversy", no matter how obviously polite and lighthearted, was purged as well.

>>894996

>PMWiki

>outdated and misconfigured

They deserve everything that happens to them.

>controversy

Oh shit I just remembered that Internet Backdraft page. Used to be so fun to read about various internet dramas, now it's literally neutered as no examples are allowed.

>>894807

actually mouse and any other pointers are retarded which OP failed to mention. good luck doing anything productive when all you can do is move a pointer around the screen and slowly press 5 buttons. then again half your PC trash right now lacks keyboard shortcuts

>>894785

modal windows are cancer period. this includes programs that take 10 seconds to load and then appear. a simple fix window systems could use is to show a window right away and have the program's content appear in it later

Which units should be preferred to design GUI?

>Characters, for a terminal-like design

>DPI, for consistent dimensions across screen sizes

>Pixels, for consistent, albeit extremely unflexible layouts

>Percentages, for consistent layouts

>Vague virtual units, a la Bootstrap, for accurate proportions

>Some of the above (which?)

>All of the above

>None

I personally think we should go with DPI and vague virtual units or percentages, but I dunno. Thoughts?

>>895062

+ an expressive DSL for definition of constraints which are solved for specific combinations of fonts, content, DPI, etc.

+ margins, padding, etc. in virtual units which depend on DPI and can also be scaled by user whenever they like

+ same as above for fonts, but it uses different scale, so it can be scaled by user independently

Android is close to this if the application developer is not a shithead.

>>895062

It depends on the application. Image applications would want to show a picture using 100% zoom at pixel perfect precision, therefore those programs would use pixel units some of the time. Most programs would deal with buttons and text areas and such things, which would be measured using non-pixel measurements. Some professional print programs might want to display a page or a picture in 1:1 scale with real life, so a physical measurement might be useful in those cases. However, not all monitors can guarantee a physical size (projectors for example, but CRTs also to an extent), so the pixel density should generally not be trusted to be in correspondence with physical reality.

>>895062

I am a big fan of Olia Lialina's even though I always forget her name writings on UI, and feel like tech designers unending quest to make computers as hidden, transparent and invisible as possible is doing us great disservice.

When it comes to computer screens this quest manifests as treating them as paper emulator which is quite poor at it's job.

Both extremes do it. Console purists treat screen as a teletype, macOS hipsters treat it as glossy magazine.

But screen is a screen is a screen. It is important to recognize it as medium of our message and treat it as such.

Disregarding the externals (wires, power supplies, cases and such) for now, screen is made of pixels, both in computer memory and now physically.

Therefore pixels should be fundamental measure of all things on screen.

I know it's inflexible, but I think benefit of less abstraction between hardware and user worth it. Resulting code simplicity is also a nice bonus. And well executed pixelart just looks fucking gorgeous.

>>895302

I can't even begin to imagine how would Olia approved UI would look like though. Blinkenlights switcheroo of Altair 8800?

>>895302

>what is high dpi

>what is technical progress

>>895061

>modal window cancer

So much worse on Windows. The locked parent window cannot be moved, resized or minimized.

Most Linux software seems to be less lock happy, and in the case where one does modal lock, the parent window can still be somewhat manipulated if you want to get it out of the way.

It has been this way since at least Windows 3.x

More on Windows UI retardation: Scroll wheel focus on click instead of on hover! How did they even come up with this when every 3rd party mouse driver back in the Win95 days did it right?

>>895392

>modal lock, the parent window can still be somewhat manipulated

Only if the modal window is still within the bounds of the parent. Otherwise you forget which modal belongs to which parent.