▶ No.888474>>888481 >>888701 >>892756
>i3wm
doesn't suck
>FreeBSD
cuck license
>feh
who gives a shit
>CMake
bullshit bloat with no reason to exist
▶ No.888481>>888546
>>888474
>doesn't suck
The amout of people that were saying how much i3wm sucks in this board is fucking overwhelming
>cuck license
What's so bad about FreeBSD's license?
▶ No.888484>>888491 >>888510 >>888519 >>888709 >>888766
>i3wm
Its tarball is 10 times the size of bspwm's one, for no special reason.
>FreeBSD
Got out from under your rock today? They went full SJW recently, and have always been the bloated BSD compare to Open, Net and even Dragonfly.
>feh
2MB tarball? Are you joking? sxiv is 47KB and better.
>CMake
Honestly, I never had to use more than GNU Make (POSIX make is too much pain). But maybe it's a mandatory evil if you want to support more than POSIX (which is retarded).
▶ No.888486>>888515
>why do these things suck
because
1) their level of suck is not null (i.e. we do know whether they suck or not), and
2) their level of suck is not zero
▶ No.888490>>888496
>>888473 (OP)
>his indent size is only 4 (ie. only half of the traditional 8)
>his lines still straddle way beyond column 80
bleh
▶ No.888491>>888499
>>888484
>They went full SJW recently
Not OP but can you explain how/provide links?
▶ No.888496>>888524
>>888490
>4
>not the new default
You're only right about the 80 cols. Also
>using python for anything where performance COULD matter
▶ No.888510>>888549
>>888484
I have known about the recent SJW stuff, but people were hating on FreeBSD way before that.
▶ No.888515
▶ No.888519>>888539 >>888832
>>888484
>sxiv is 447KB and better.
How is it better, exactly?
▶ No.888524>>888527 >>888545 >>888866 >>890788
>>888496
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.15/process/coding-style.html
<Tabs are 8 characters, and thus indentations are also 8 characters. There are heretic movements that try to make indentations 4 (or even 2!) characters deep, and that is akin to trying to define the value of PI to be 3.
<Rationale: The whole idea behind indentation is to clearly define where a block of control starts and ends. Especially when you’ve been looking at your screen for 20 straight hours, you’ll find it a lot easier to see how the indentation works if you have large indentations.
<Now, some people will claim that having 8-character indentations makes the code move too far to the right, and makes it hard to read on a 80-character terminal screen. The answer to that is that if you need more than 3 levels of indentation, you’re screwed anyway, and should fix your program.
<In short, 8-char indents make things easier to read, and have the added benefit of warning you when you’re nesting your functions too deep. Heed that warning.
Thus spoke Linus Torvalds
▶ No.888526
>>888499
My bad. Thanks.
Also wtf...
▶ No.888527
>>888524
For fuck's sake, I just searched "i3wm rice" in duckduckgo
▶ No.888539>>888832
>>888519
The key-handler and image-info handler are very powerful because they're sh scripts. Example:
#!/bin/sh
SAVEDIR=${SAVEDIR:-~/Pictures}
BROWSER=${BROWSER:-jailed-firefox.sh}
while read file
do
base=$(basename -- "$file")
dir=$(dirname -- "$file")
case "$1" in
# Delete
"d")
rm -- "$file"
;;
# Rename
"r")
mv -- "$file" "$dir/$(ls -- "$dir" | dmenu -i -p "Rename $base")"
;;
# Move to $DESTDIR
"m")
[ ! "${DESTDIR:-}" ] && exit 1
mv -- "$file" "$DESTDIR"
;;
# Save to $SAVEDIR
"s")
cp -- "$file" "$SAVEDIR"
;;
# Open gatherer.wizards.com page
"G")
base=${base%.*}
# Only get the first part of split cards
base=${base%_*}
base=${base% \[*}
$BROWSER http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=$(urlencode "$base") &
;;
# Open www.cardmarket.com page
"K")
base=${base%.*}
# Split card name correction
base=$(printf '%s' "$base" | sed 's#_# // #; s#\[\([0-9]\)\]#(Version \1)#')
$BROWSER https://www.cardmarket.com/en/Magic/Products/Singles/$(urlencode "${dir##*/}")/$(urlencode "$base") &
;;
esac
done
▶ No.888545
>>888524
By using 4 instead of 8, you can think about using meaningful names for identifiers and not "i, j, v1, v2" à la POSIX bc.
▶ No.888546
>>888481
>The amout of people that were saying how much i3wm sucks in this board is fucking overwhelming
Not really. It only "sucks" when comparing to other minimalistic alternatives like dwm and only if you prefer minimalism over functionality.
▶ No.888547
>>888473 (OP)
>CMake
Meson is better than CMake in every way. Many Free Software communities already started porting their projects to Meson from CMake/autotools.
▶ No.888549>>888561 >>888607
>>888510
Because people like BSD because of minimalism and keeping with UNIX-like tradition. FreeBSD is neither. You are better off with Linux at this point if you can't into OpenBSD. FreeBSD developers are hipster special snowflake macfag cucks sucking corporate dick. They let themselves get infiltrated by SJW who crave power, it is their own fault.
▶ No.888557
don't hink many people have anything against i3wm, they probably just hate the arch ricers.
▶ No.888561>>888607 >>888654
>>888549
How is FreeBSD less minimal and Unixy than OpenBSD? I'm not really familiar with the BSDs at all.
▶ No.888607>>888613 >>888696 >>888712
>>888549
Having a httpd, mail server, ntp, ssh, a wm, a kind of X server and whatever they forked forked in the past is in the base install means everything, but minimal even if most of them are half baked tools.
>>888561
FreeBSD is more minimal than OBSD. See above.
▶ No.888610>>888640
>>888473 (OP)
>I3
It's great for baby's first tiling WM. Hell, I'd recommend it to even experienced users.
>FreeBSD
HomOS
>Feh
The only problem I can think of for it is that it lacks animated GIF support.
>CMake
It's fucking awful for a user to build with and it takes FOREVER to compile. I can see why a dev would use it though.
▶ No.888613>>888665
>>888607
Minimalism is about code complexity not size (disk, RAM, number of tools...).
▶ No.888626>>888640 >>888650
>>888473 (OP)
>i3wm
Only good at terminal windows but shit at everything else. Literally a meme that nobody uses outside of glamour shots to look cool.
Every GOOD WM supports snapping or full screen terminal+tmux. That will allow you to have a good graphical WM and terminal tilling.
>FreeBSD
Good for certain things. Probably the best FreeSource UNIX, genetically. Not afraid to break userspace when its the right thing to do. Has Jails (Cock Docker BTFO) And also ZFS (SoyFS BTFO)
>feh
Not bad
>CMake
Slow and arbitrary with its config. Nobody writes make files manually either. The fact that make has a make tool for make on top of that is a sorry state of affairs.
▶ No.888640>>888892
>>888610
>It's fucking awful for a user to build with and it takes FOREVER to compile. I can see why a dev would use it though.
CMake is a configuration system, you use make or ninja afterward. Retard.
>>888626
>nobody uses tiling WMs
Sure.
>The fact that make has a make tool for make on top of that is a sorry state of affairs.
?
▶ No.888650
>>888626
>Not afraid to break userspace when its the right thing to do
Whens the last time you saw freebsd break userspace besides its already broken state? They are too scared of pissing of their corporate overloads so the refuse to do such a thing.
▶ No.888654
>>888561
Because open BSD is a meme. I really hope it gets better, but you can't even build valgrind. Firefox crashes all the time due to W^X protection. I love that it exists, and I hope they improve it, but as a daily driver desktop system its not currently usable. The code base is beauitufl, and top quality, I have considered spending time trying to develop it. I am intrested in the kernel FS layer, currently, there is no support for any real linux filesystems, and linux doesn't support its FFS filesystem either..
▶ No.888665>>888706 >>888732
>>888613
False, minimalism can be applied to ANY metric and you don't get to lock it down to just one metric. I think minimalism means low disk size, low RAM usage, and low execution speeds. Don't give a fuck-damn about "code complexity".
▶ No.888690
I like i3wm and you can suck my ass if you don't. I use feh too. FreeBSD was a cool idea that turned into shit due to the slow destruction of social justice that inspired wroth against them. They also let Apple bend them over.
Cmake is fine.
▶ No.888696
>>888607
>Having a httpd, mail server, ntp, ssh, a wm, a kind of X server and whatever they forked forked in the past is in the base install means everything, but minimal even if most of them are half baked tools.
Having default secure tools is sensible, Specially since openbsd has developed important widely used tools like openSSH. The OpenBSD project is routinely audited, produces high quality code, and has a great track record here. The components your talking about do not all come preinstalled and configuered. Arch has a webserver, mail server, etc available, is it not minimalist now?
OpenBSD does something important developing these tools
▶ No.888701
▶ No.888704
Nothing wrong with i3, haven't seen any hate towards it either, at least not towards the piece of software itself, the actual hate goes to arch ricers who typically use i3.
▶ No.888705
>>888473 (OP)
feh is the fastest image viewer I know for Linux. Cmake is shit because it's impossible to design a good build system for conventional PLs anywhere from C to Java to Haskell
▶ No.888706
>>888665
minimalism is about having ONLY the tools you need, instead lots of tools/features that come bundled with your software and you will never use. A good example of this is st, by default it does fuck all and you're meant to modify/patch it to include ONLY the features you need.
▶ No.888709
>>888484
ah sxiv might be better actually. i've been using it to view GIFs only because feh can't. also sxiv can seek through gif files and pause/play which almost no other image viewer can do for some reason
▶ No.888712>>888733
>>888607
all the cancer installed by default. this reminds me of that horrible whateverd that some linux distros have that a bunch of internet services go through
▶ No.888732>>893564
>>888665
We are talking about two different things. You are looking at the surface level, the end result.
>low disk size
Comes from using the right abstraction.
>low RAM usage
Comes from correctness.
>and low execution speeds
Usually the side effect by simplicity of code.
I can make a few KiB big program that consumes mininal amount of RAM and is fast, but the code can be obfuscated, using gotos everywhere, written in brainfuck with hard dependancy on systemd. Is it still minimalistic? As a developer you should strive to have control over the code of your software. When we are talking about correctly written software then things like binary size, RAM and performance become almost miningless on modern hardware.
It doesnt matter that you dont care about code complexity. Other people do.
▶ No.888733>>888737 >>888811
>>888712
Server OS has server software preloaded. Color me surprised. OpenBSD does not ship with X. You get a choice in the installer. Default is No.
▶ No.888737
>>888733
The only reason there is an option to install X in the installer is because OpenBSD actually dogfood their shit unlike a lot of FreeBSD people who use macOS as primary OS.
▶ No.888766>>888781
This thread is /g/ tier, but whatever.
>i3wm
For what reason use this over something like MATE or xfce, that can snap windows to the side? You're not likely to use more than two windows simultaneously all the time, it's a waste of screenspace if you have more workspace running anyway. Unless you're using a crappy computer, there's no reason to give up that much convenience for a few MB of RAM. Tiling windowmanagers are for ricers.
>inb4 I amazed my boss by doing double the work in half the time and already got a payraise
>>888484
>FreeBSD went full SJW
Not advocating for this, but the system itself is still pretty good. Easy to setup, good documentation, sane file hierarchy, easy to configure and maintain - actually better than most Linux distributions. I guess you never tried it before. Also, on what basis do you call the base system bloated?
Saying FreeBSD is shit because of their CoC is as retarded as the thing itself.
▶ No.888781>>888802
>>888766
>You're not likely to use more than two windows simultaneously all the time
Projecting hard, I see.
>Also, on what basis do you call the base system bloated?
Dunno, always had that impressions. It's probably wrong. I think that's due to the heavy emphasis on features like ZFS/dtrace that I think this.
>Saying FreeBSD is shit because of their CoC is as retarded as the thing itself.
It makes it shit, though. Not technologically, that's all.
Honestly, I'd think about BSD if there was a source-based one. But as I see it, Gentoo is better than any BSD, right now.
▶ No.888802>>888836
>>888781
>Projecting hard
What I meant is that you usually have to have really small fonts to be able make any use of more than two windows, that contain anything that you want to work with. I'd rather use some terminal multiplexer and/or workspace. They're pretty fast to get to and you don't have to clutter your screen further than necessary.
>It makes it shit, though.
I'd argue the CoC being shit means the CoC is shit, not necessarily the product.
>source-based BSD
OpenBSD has the requirement that base builds base and all the BSDs have some kind of ports system - FreeBSDs probably being the best one, since you can modify all your builds through a curses interface. For OpenBSDs there's "flavors" for some packages, but not all. They are basically separately compiled packages with fixed differences. NetBSD uses the platform independent pkgsrc, it doesn't have anything like that afaik. The ports trees are usually pretty extensive, but it's no Gentoo.
▶ No.888803
>>888473 (OP)
>i3wm
Babby's first tiling window manager.
>feh
Unless you use most of the command line options, it's bloat.
>CMake
Bloat, but it has process percentages which makes me tolerate it.
▶ No.888811
>>888733
>want to make server for actual real protocol
>OS comes with http, email, ssh
oh thanks
▶ No.888819
Difference in some of these software is pretty negligible, for example:
tmp> du /usr/local/bin/{sxiv,feh}
70.0K /usr/local/bin/sxiv
240K /usr/local/bin/feh
For some reason, feh is linked with some networking libs though so that's kinda weird, but it looks like you can compile without that. But either way, neither requires big bloated X toolkit like Qt or Gtk so both are good choices.
But here's the thing: both require X. Better find an image viewer than can render in SDL instead if you want to talk about less bloat. A long time ago I used zgv with svgalib.
▶ No.888827
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with feh and i3.
I3 is only hated because it's simple to use and configure. and i've never heard anyone on here complain about feh before.
▶ No.888832>>888853
>>888519
It play gif files.
>>888539
Autism.
▶ No.888836>>888861 >>888862
>>888802
>I'd argue the CoC being shit means the CoC is shit, not necessarily the product.
It means FreeBSD officially endorses and spearheads kike subversion. No more no less.
>What I meant is that you usually have to have really small fonts to be able make any use of more than two windows, that contain anything that you want to work with. I'd rather use some terminal multiplexer and/or workspace. They're pretty fast to get to and you don't have to clutter your screen further than necessary.
2560x1440 27" with Terminus:size=12 here. I also have 3 windows in a workspace, most of the time, and 4 isn't that unusual. Add to that the fact that well-made fully NETWM compliant stacking WMs are very rare (IceWM was okay, last time I tried) and it's an obvious choice.
After thinking a little, the biggest point of tiling WMs is that there are directional relationships between windows, so switching to the one you want is lightning fast.
▶ No.888853>>888952
>>888832
>Autism
Do you know where you are, cunt?
▶ No.888861
>>888836
Switching windows in a terminal multiplexer is fast. I even have Alt-0, Alt-1, Alt-2, etc. bound to switch to the numbered window. With tmux you can even split a window into panes and quickly switch between the visible panes.
▶ No.888862>>888865
>>888836
>2560x1440 27" with Terminus:size=12
Would feel too small for me to read comfortably at a normal distance. Maybe me eyes just got worse, but I seldom feel like I would need to see more of any document than what fits on the screen at my current settings. I have function keys set to snap windows left, right or maximize them, emacs has buffers and if I need more terminals I can quickly open tabs in the existing terminal window. Also alt-tabbing through windows isn't that cumbersome if you don't have a million of them open.
I did try i3 some time ago and configured it to my needs, but there's not a lot that felt more comfortable in it than in other adjusted desktop environments. Or maybe rather: I didn't need any of the features that couldn't be provided similiarly through other desktop environments.
▶ No.888865
>>888862
But don't you spend most of your time in a tiled state with some floating windows? In this case, tiling windows with floating capabilities make way more sense.
>desktop environment
aka bloat.
▶ No.888866
>>888524
I can see where Linus is coming from, but
>akin to trying to define the value of PI to be 3
Uh, no. Only in kernel-land does an arbitrary decision made many years ago have the same universality as a mathematical constant. It's pretty well-understood today that a tab char just means "some level of indentation".
// vim: tabstop=4
▶ No.888892
>>888640
First, I was referring to the whole build process, not just compilation.
Second, the Makefile calls back into Cmake for some fucking reason.
▶ No.888916
I used to hate autoconf until I had to use cmake. cmake tries to be clever, but it just isn't, so it only gets in the way. It's also crazy slow, if you have almost everything cached you'll be wasting more time on cmake than on gcc/ccache.
▶ No.888952
>>888853
on a forum for leet gangsters
▶ No.888973>>890779
>>888473 (OP)
None of those things suck. Cat-V memekids just say they do so they can minimal signal over their featureless stali rig.
▶ No.890776
>>888473 (OP)
>i3wm
very non suckable
>FreeBSD
CUUUUUUCK
>feh
don't even know what it is
>CMake
niggar
▶ No.890779
>>888973
i3wm is the worst tiling window manager.
Take the herbstluft pill, kid.
▶ No.890788
>>888524
Of course, you are completely fucked if you are using Java or C#. By the time you get to actually write some code, you are three levels deep.
▶ No.890791
>>888473 (OP)
>CMake
Any compiling outside of ports, emerge, or anything in that vein is shit.
And that's where binary distros fuck up.
Compiling a program then packaging it should be as simple as running emerge or compiling a port.
deb packages for instance. There is no template deb. dpkg-deb can't even generate a basic template.
dpkg-buildpackage doesn't even work half the time, and checkinstall ain't great.
▶ No.891202
I just installed i3!
I am loving it. Actually feels like I've lost a shitload of time.
▶ No.891203
▶ No.892752
I like i3wm for the manual window tiling, but I noticed that I usually arrange my windows the same way every time. That's why I'm trying to move to xmonad or awesome, so I can configure windows to arrange the we I usually put them automatically.
I don't want to switch back to floating windows. Why would I ever want windows partially covering eachother in ways I can't control?
▶ No.892756>>893568
>>888474
>>CMake
>bullshit bloat with no reason to exist
Yea I just love manually mapping out dependencies for every single different Linux distro.
▶ No.892824
>i3wm
arch ricers
>FreeBSD
no hugs
>feh
muh bloat
>CMake
muh bloat
that's it, stop bumping this.
▶ No.892825
And also use the sticky next time.
▶ No.893564
>>888732
>using gotos everywhere
I've found people seem to have a phobia of gotos. Even in situations where they would make the code more elegant, they're avoided.
▶ No.893568
>>892756
Lol. people think the "configure" scripts are just part of make. autotools is bloated as all fuck.