/tech/ - Technology★

>>881190 (OP)

>Ian """Commits sudoku"""

>Debian adds SystemDick

>more faggotry and even more politics than before

<really makes you think, doesn't it?

Debian is compromised, use Devuan https://devuan.org/

I switched away from debian. I installed Gentoo on my desktop a year ago. And i finally switched to void on my laptop just a couple of weeks ago.

What makes you think less popular distros are less dead? They often don't even package what I'm looking for. Agree on cunt maintainers given too much power though, like the systemd one with google dns.

why not just use ubuntu

>>881194

Devuan is largely Debian, only with even bigger retard maintainers who think they know better than you.

https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=13825&cid=353510

>>881196

>What makes you think less popular distros are less dead? They often don't even package what I'm looking for. Agree on cunt maintainers given too much power though, like the systemd one with google dns.

Every single time I have searched for something Debian did not have, NixOS did. Looking at Mesa, it seems nixpkgs' version is only three minor versions behind Debian Sid's, and many other packages have higher latest versions because they are not dead, unlike Debian's, and downloading a higher version should be as easy as overriding the version variable. My problem is mostly the full retard defaults and maintainers, though.

>>881194

Ian had been uninvolved with Debian for years at that point.

>>881190 (OP)

install gentoo

though gentoo does have some issues with it's repo's too. virtualbox-guest-additions for example is fucked. 3d acceleration flat out doesn't work because of the ass backwards way oracle does it, if you install it from their iso then what it basically does is overrides libraries when it starts, which works, but is not the linux way or the gentoo way so they refuse to replicate that behavior in the package so as a consequence 3d accel doesn't work and it isn't getting fixed.

whatever though the framework is in place, it's much easier to fix these package issues yourself in gentoo then it would be in debian or *buntu if you felt like it.

>>881190 (OP)

>leaving Debian

>for NixOS

Yeah right.

>>881210

What's wrong with it?

>>881197

>why not just use Ubumtu

<it's spyware now

<gnomeme & SystemD

<packages that Canonical doesn't care about are old

<organization of the repositories is re-tårta (multiverse, universe, etc.)

<release upgrades break your system, and they aren't seamless

>>881235

>It's spyware now

I hope you have removed all networking drivers from your kernel.

>>881237

enjoy your data-mining botnet, nigger

>>881197

see

>>869465

>>881249

Being able to enable/disable something is not one of the qualifications for being a botnet.

Are you the same anon from the Linux gaming thread?

>>881214

/nix/store/5l6b97jscljkvsq9y9amg71v5jfzddm4-gcc-wrapper-6.4.0/bin/gcc
/nix/store/r6s5p2ddnl6axsbw6cghbn25khp7pfr9-libbsd-0.8.5/include/bsd/stdio.h
/nix/store/3p1b66av1sflap15jr4b8z6hw28fmjam-gcc-6.4.0/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/6.4.0/include/ssp/stdio.h
/nix/store/3p1b66av1sflap15jr4b8z6hw28fmjam-gcc-6.4.0/include/c++/6.4.0/tr1/stdio.h
/nix/store/j4q18y05wpnjin423wf69nfb7r7q0ml9-glibc-2.25-123-dev/include/stdio.h
/nix/store/j4q18y05wpnjin423wf69nfb7r7q0ml9-glibc-2.25-123-dev/include/bits/stdio.h

That's the problem. It's really more of an experiment.

>>881301

eh the paths are all totally unique and different to every other distro. There's no /usr/.

>>881342

If what I remember from Guix applies to Nix, there is a predictable filesystem structure, it's just symlinked into a subdirectory of your home directory.

Which problem caused by the lack of /usr is not solved by Nix?

>>881258

Yes. Sorry for being a filthy gamer on my weekends, /tech/

The fun thing about NixOS is that it should be trivial to configure for the kind of security Android has, which should pretty much shit on any other GNU/Linux distro's security models. It almost seems like a framework to build cool stuff off it, and hopefully more people can see this in the future.

>>881356

Pretty sure you're doing that fag tactic of having stupid opinions so I'll correct you and waste my time. Piss off. Wanna know what's wrong with not having the usual filesystem go ahead and find out.

>>881190 (OP)

I've run the following operating systems over the years, in no particular order: DOS, FreeDOS, Windows 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10, Mac OS X 10.5-10.9, Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Gentoo, Arch, Fedora, CentOS, LFS, openSUSE, Slackware, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonflyBSD, OpenSolaris, Minix 3, and Plan 9. I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

Something I've learned over the years is that all operating systems suck. They suck bad. Whether they're proprietary (Windows, Mac OS X) or FLOSS (Linux, *BSD), they all suck. They suck in different ways, and to different degrees, but in the end they're just various levels of garbage. Especially if you do anything out-of-the-ordinary for the system, you'll rapidly run into frustrations, brokenness, corner-case bugs, and other bullshit. I have yet to run into an OS that I haven't hated something about. Debian stable is too old. Sid is (too) unstable. Testing doesn't get timely security updates. Arch is insecure out of the box. It's easy to get into Portage USE flag/dependency hell if you're doing anything unexpected on Gentoo. A bunch of FreeBSD ports are broken or fragile. OpenBSD is slow. Windows is a bloated, slow, insecure, privacy-invading blackbox. Mac OS X is full of bugs, which you'll encounter the first time you try to do anything with it but update your blog from a Starbucks.

I don't blame the creators of those OSs entirely. Writing OSs is hard. Writing good software is hard. And for the vast majority of normies, most of those operating systems would be adequate: if they can run a mainstream browser, listen to music, and transfer files to and from their smartphone, they're happy.

I don't use Debian anymore, so I don't have a horse in this race, but my point in all of this is that you're probably going to find something you hate about NixOS. I've resigned myself to never finding the perfect OS, or even one within spitting distance of perfect. Sometimes I think the best thing to do would be to drop this machine in the local lake and pretend that the microcomputer was never invented.

>because apt does not have an automatic "manual override" mode for pulling source code from the repos and then building the package in your own computer with your own set of patches or compilation options every time you update, like Gentoo or any modern distro.

Oh my god this. Debian is all nice and dandy when the packages you want are in the repo's, but when its not, the experience is atrocious.

>"But just do ./configure && make && make install"

...and then have those files silently overwritten by the package manager.

>>881501

>.and then have those files silently overwritten by the package manager.

i haven't done it in a while, but can't you just use checkinstall do generate a package, and then flag it in the package as "provides:X", at which point apt will consider it already installed and won't overwrite it.

>>881470

>OBSD is best then, if only thing that sucks

>freebsd has way more serious problems considering security than just bunch of broken ports

My post was long enough; the list wasn't exhaustive. Speed isn't the only problem with OpenBSD. Its security "guarantees" go out the window the minute you install any ports or packages not in the base system or change any of the default configuration. They have a habit of covering up past security problems by classifying them as fixed (general) bugs instead of fixed (security) bugs. If you run any of the X direct rendering code, you should be aware that the OpenBSD team doesn't audit it; in fact, they refuse even to look at it. Of course that wouldn't guarantee much, necessarily, because even the "audited" base system is full of holes. Look for the Ilya van Sprundel talk comparing *BSDs security. He found numerous security flaws in the OpenBSD base system without even trying very hard. It's safe to assume that to a dedicated and well-resourced adversary, OpenBSD is the security equivalent of Swiss cheese. In addition, The Rat has refused to implement some modern security mitigations like MAC, preferring to rely on their audits and reducing attack surface. That might be a reasonable tradeoff, except as pointed out above, the audited base system is still full of security flaws.

This isn't exhaustive, either. We could move on to hardware support next...

Like I said, all operating systems suck. Some might be best *at certain things* but I don't see any point in dubbing any one the overall "best".

>Btw how's HAMMER? I was looking into DragonFly and HAMMER catched my eye the most.

I've used HAMMER and HAMMER2, though I never used any of their advanced features. They were reliable and stayed out of my way for desktop use. I don't know how they'd fare under other usage scenarios.

>and please define "unexpected" and "out-of-ordinary"

I appreciate your asking nicely, but no.

>>881190 (OP)

Yeah, mcomix is apparently out of the package manager and out of the blue streamlink is 'deprecating' livestreamer. Maybe I'm missing some vital debian rss feed.

>881503

>The Rat

>MAC

Oh its this faggot again. The reason why mac is not a solution has been explained to you before but you chose to ignore it.

>Ilya van Sprundel ... found numerous security flaws ... equivalent of Swiss cheese

Still quoting a talk you never listened to I see.

Friendly reminder to ignore this guy, he is incapable of having a discussion and refuses to acknowledge or refute any of the flaws pointed out in his arguments.

>>881509

>Oh its this faggot again.

You have mistaken me for someone else. This is an anonymous imageboard. Perhaps you'd be more comfortable on Reddit or another site with pseudonymous accounts. If you'd like to stay here instead of going back where you belong, you are welcome to address the content of my post instead of assuming I'm someone I'm not.

faggots nixed bfgminer by not maintaining dependencies but left the package up there. what a bunch of shit

>>881194

>switching your operating system because of its init system

wow, anon, you're a little faggot!

>>881621

>supporting an operating system with your installation that defaults to systemd botnet

kill yourself

Been using Arch for years. One word alias command updates my system.

Bootable BTRFS snapshots for easy rollbacks if there are any problems.

Packages are maintained very well. AUR is awesome.

System can be as lean or as bloated as you want.

Not sure why you're still using a dinosaur that even Debian developers don't use as their primary workstation.

If you're just running a simple server, then yeah, choose debian I guess.

>>881623

give into bloat and install opensuse tumbleweed

>>881342

>>881434

There are very good reasons for having a different fs layout, each package is hashed and linked to ensure reproducible configs.

Does one package require somebinary version 2.1 and another package required 2.2? Nix handles that by moving the traditional fs structure to be per package instead of per machine.

>>881726

And there are very good reasons not to.

>>881733

Which are...

>inb4 "educate yourself, shitlord!"

:^)

>>881733

Bit of a non response mate.

NixOS has a reason for not using LSB, you can't do what NixOS does with the standard filesystem layout.

NixOS deprecates docker, static binaries, comes with atomic updates and rollbacks, I would say it's worth it.

NixOS seems really cool, but I just feel like the abstraction is eventually gonna come back to bite me in the ass, that's the only thing keeping me away from it really.

>>881621

heh, I bet you haven't tried to change the init on a systemdick distro.

>>881623

>arch

>simple/minimalistic

pick one, but not both

Arch compiles nearly every option in its packages and it's debatable whether the base group is minimal or not. btrfs has had scary bugs, so i don't want to use it on my system. In last January, audacity (in the official arch repos, not aur) package didn't have a valid signature for a week. And finally, AUR is just an over glorified dump of shell scripts. Some of them are good but others are bad and/or abandoned. Also, Gentoo overlays are better in every way.

>>881726

Interesting, sounds a bit like gobolinux.

>>881801

>scary bugs

What were these? I've been considering using btrfs in the near future.

>>881747

Binaries, scripts, makefiles. etc.

But don't worry you can patch them :^)

>>881750

And there's no drawbacks right. I feel like I've wandered into /g/ here.

I'm just imagining OP reading this and being like yeah atomic updates then trying to get a vidya game working.

>>881807

Last I recall, if you use RAID 5 or 6, they're was or is a good chance of it skull fucking your data. RAID 0,1, and 10 were fine. Frankly I wouldn't ever use RAID 5 or 6 anyways, I prefer 100% redundancy. I'm sure there were other problems, but I haven't been following it closely for about a year because it was taking so fucking long that I just said fuck it and use ZFS now because I'm a disgusting digital packrat.

>>881813

>vidya

Actually, NixOS comes with a Steam "macro" that pulls pretty much everything you need into a FHS chroot, called steam-run. You can use that command for pretty much any binary that hard depends on a standard directory structure.

>>881824

>vidya means steam

kill yourself brand loyalist

>>881826

It's being used to run non-Steam Godot games. Joke's on you.

>>881829

Not really, the NixOS devs should just call it games-eun instead of advertising for proprietary, spying, walled garden, social media shit. Might as well run Ubuntu.

>>881503

I'm not the one who asked. But, thanks for these infos. Also for remembering me to try NixOS.

>>881623

Debian has reproduceable builds, with an community repo this would even be more important, but last time I checked Arch didn't have that.

>>881813

>binaries, makefiles scripts

makefiles are handled automagically by the package manager, less automagically with binaries and scripts via nix-shell

>claiming /g/

>only solid example is muh games

Glass houses friend, like everything in nixos, those it requires more initial work but less than you think, I just had a nix-shell that defined an FHS with the appropriate libs for my gog games.

>>881801

I'm not >>881623 but who are you quoting?, has the arch-hating circlejerk made you delusional already?

>overlays are better

(citation needed)

>>881824

>just run a chroot

>>881907

>just run nix-shell

oh how foolish of me of course it just le werks. Thanks /g/ I guess there no problems after all.

>>881961

>being this much if a memer

Where did the Nix touch you?

>>881194

Devuan is what Debian should have continued to be.

>>881621

>glow in the dark Red Hat commie shill

You’re actually harming your project and employer anon. Only massive faggots use systemd.

>>882051

Did you know systemd-pid1 is only init?

Should I install Calculate Linux?, it's pretty much gentoo with a binhost.

>inb4 why install gentoo then

I don't mind compiling, but I definitely don't have the time to compile literally everything, mainly I just want to use ebuilds instead of PKGBUILDs whenever I do compile, and I'm also sick of the amount of root space arch takes because of their lack of package splitting, though I don't know if gentoo could change that.

And no, there's no way I'm using CuckOS's binhost, I don't trust it.

>>881470

>learn nipponese AND programming AT THE SAME TIME by WATCHING ANIME

does this work?

>>882153

Solus is still pretty fast to boot up, though i mostly hibernate so who cares.

>>883877

Kevin, pls