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 No.872261>>872308 >>872334 >>873275 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]

https://areyouahuman.com/

Are you a human /tech/? Is there an industry collecting keyboard events, mouse events, scrolling, focus and hover behavior, and so on and then using it to see if you're a real person? Are they using data they collect to profile you possibly down to the individual level? To me it seems weird, I wonder why ad networks would fund browsers in order to push standards which help them do this.

https://areyouahuman.com/

 No.872308>>872314 >>872316 >>872318 >>872322 >>872327 >>872356 >>872664 >>872935 >>874748

>>872261 (OP)

The is why going 100% text based is so important but the GUI fags will never admit it


 No.872314>>872318

>>872308

I'd like to see something like Ad Nauseam but geared toward feeding these assholes and people like them fake data.


 No.872315>>874735

other way around, they're using the data collected on you, to see if the events match up to your profile


 No.872316>>872325

>>872308

There is literally nothing wrong with scripts as long as they don't send data back to the server or load new data.


 No.872318

>>872308

>be me, ssh board sysop

>cli larpers invade after final lockdown of Web aka Googlespace

>I still run a keylogger and sell their data to corporations

>devili.sh

>>872314

>Ad Nauseam

>>>/g/


 No.872322

File (hide): 85686703be3b68f⋯.png (120.55 KB, 946x844, 473:422, 01219E65-347E-44D0-A73D-8F….png) (h) (u)

>>872308

but wheat do wit no space age tool invent by nasa to emulate rodentia?

is gone? no kill no no ples!


 No.872325>>872342

>>872316

But they do, that's the whole premise of a lot of this stuff. Look at Google's new Capcha thing where it doesn't even need you to select boxes / type stuff in because it can tell if you're a human or not.


 No.872327>>872346 >>873302 >>873400

>>872308

You can't implement any sort of bot-resilient captcha with text only. Going 100% text would mean the bots have already won.

>tfw you will live to see the bots take over the internet and implementing captchas that require you to prove you are NOT a human


 No.872334>>872337 >>872350 >>873302

>>872261 (OP)

I helped write the software for this, the larger companies are using the data for really sinister shit. Turn out knowing the position of someone’s hand can be pretty valuable, especially when you collate this with other related datasets. They’re at the point that they know what you’re thinking before you even do it, as soon as you move the mouse they preload what you’re going to click on a fraction of a second later. It’s disgusting really, just this little bit of extra time can be used to filter what you see and tailor the results specific to you. This tech can literally be used to micromanage society at a basic level.


 No.872337

>>872334

my dad works at nintendo and confirmed this


 No.872342>>872358 >>872394 >>873302

>>872325

How does that work, though?

It could be a single cookie stored that holds a simple yes (unlikely), or it could be a script that detects the position of the cursor and length of page scrolled to detect an actual user and a bot doing the exact same thing each page.


 No.872346>>872349 >>873302

>>872327

Bots already exist that can perfectly emulate human mouse movements... they have for years now, earliest I remember using one was back in ‘08


 No.872349>>872353 >>872357 >>873302

>>872346

Today's captchas rely on visual pattern recognition. That's about the strongest advantage we (still) have.

The irony is that Google uses their captcha system not only to enable human verification, but to train bots to solve the very same problem. So the that second application of the captchas (to train bots) will directly undermine the first application (verify humans).


 No.872350>>872354 >>872357

>>872334

Tell me exactly why you helped make this you evil fuck, have you no morals?


 No.872353>>872501

>>872349

>The irony is that Google uses their captcha system not only to enable human verification, but to train bots to solve the very same problem.

If they wouldn't, someone else would. All major tech companies primarily focus on AI these days, because it's a game that you can't afford not to participate in lest you having lost already. Even Putin (who afaik doesn't have much of a technical background, although being a former spy might be relevant here) said that whoever will develop a really strong AI first will control the world. Thus, training the bots is actually the primary application here, and the fact that with time it will make its human verification potential obsolete is basically of little to no concern.


 No.872354

>>872350

Because he needed to eat?


 No.872356>>872824

>>872308

This has nothing to do with GUI and everything to do with letting others execute arbitrary code on your machine.


 No.872357>>872361 >>872404

>>872350

Throw your morals down the drain buddy, if I hadn’t done it someone else would have. When you’re getting paid like I did morals are the last thing you think about. I don’t regret doing it, I got a lot out of it and I know it would have happened anyway.

>>872349

The solution after this is facial recognition. It will be a short lived solution...


 No.872358

>>872342

If you are logged in into your google account you pass.


 No.872361>>872369

>>872357

This excuse did not count at the Nuernberg trials and it doesn't count now. Not that it matters, because you are an attention whoring LARPer. Whatever algorithm is developed to determine if a pattern is from a human or not can be used to make a bot that behaves such that it passes. It is just an arms race.


 No.872362

so basically what i have gathered so far is that we are all fucked and nothing can be done... great


 No.872369>>872459

>>872361

Nuremberg Trials v2.0 /tech/ edition?

I always like to remind people that computers came after nukes, so which is more advanced?


 No.872372

File (hide): 56c43d749b2e644⋯.jpeg (868.67 KB, 2048x2732, 512:683, E089D25E-BE99-4023-AC68-9….jpeg) (h) (u)

Definitely not human


 No.872394

>>872342

Sadly with how obfuscated js is these days we might never know how they're doing it. I'd like to know too actually. I'm really dreading the new era of webasm, we will never have any idea what's going on then.


 No.872404>>872462

>>872357

>short lived solution

already flawed, your face could be stolen any moment now


 No.872459

>>872369

Wasn't ENIAC used in the Manhattan Project?


 No.872461

I think this is kind-of old tech, and it definitely shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The majority of websites today probably track users way thanks to Google Analytics and Captcha.

It would be interesting to know how they do it, and if the cloudlfare check is based on the same thing.

Imagine what they can do with all the sensors in a modern smartphone. If an adversarial program escalates it's privilege, it could heighten the gyroscope's polling rate to a few kHz and functionally have access to a microphone, even if the others have been physically removed.


 No.872462>>872485 >>872540

>>872404

Even worse, it's a "password" you can't change (short of a plastic surgery at least). All of biometric security is a meme because of this, the data is surprisingly easy to obtain for an unauthorized third party, and it's very hard to do anything about it once it has been compromised. But fat suits are retards and push it anyway.


 No.872485

>>872462

Have you heard of the fingerprint scanners being fooled?


 No.872501>>872506

>>872353

AGI is pretty much the endgame. Anything less will always invoke a cat and mouse game that exploit limitations or vulnerabilities of narrow AIs. But once AGI is reached, it only becomes a matter of who has the most hardware power and surveillance network access at that moment, and they immediately win Earth. That's if they maintain control of it obviously.

That's why AI will become a much more strategically important asset than nuclear weapons. So expect massive budget increases by virtually every nation towards AI within a few years.


 No.872506>>872515 >>872606

>>872501

>AGI

Keep dreaming retard. Full AI is not something anyone here will live to see. Just because your icon Elon musk thinks they are oh-so-close does not mean they are, but you are clearly incapable of informing yourself and just parrot the bullshit from business magazines. Do the world a favour and neck yourself.


 No.872515

>>872506

Didn't say anything about it being close or any bullshit like that. It's the ultimate conclusion where all of it would lead to hence saying endgame, that's what arms races tend to do. Such a thought also won't stop short-term hype from recent developments fueling efforts in an attempt to try and accelerate it either. Though the obvious risk there is investor expectations overshoot actual development progress, so there's a LOT of pressure to actually yield results. The point is to look at the motivations of those involved and what the actual stakes are to keep advancing. Even if it takes a ridiculously long time to achieve it, the return is insurmountable.


 No.872540>>872608 >>873499

>>872462

I use the fingerprint scanner on my t500 so that i don't have to input a password in public where there are potential onlookers with cellphone cameras and surveillance cameras.


 No.872606>>872638 >>872647

>>872506

>implying they didn't achieve "full" AI in the 80s

>implying the AI Winter wasn't just a large number of companies and researchers moving into super secret mode with full defense budget funding

>implying a large important project like AI research and implementation wouldn't be broken into thousands of related research topics as has been done before

You're right that people will never see it, the dozen or so people likely working with the full information on AI are probably living in bunkers, everybody else working on it was just looking at small pieces of the puzzle just like with the Manhattan Project.


 No.872608>>873499

>>872540

If your user account has somehow been owned but the attacker doesn't have root or your password, a fingerprint scanner will prevent them from learning it and securing access to sudo and such too.


 No.872638>>872653

>>872606

That's nice pitch for a novel, but it's far off from reality.


 No.872647


 No.872653

>>872638

Unlike with an atom bomb, you can't see the AI going off until you know how to look for it.


 No.872664

>>872308

GUI fags absolutely BTFO


 No.872824

>>872356

ding ding ding

bingo


 No.872927

beep boop i am a robot


 No.872935>>872987

>>872308

Why don't you fags just create a browser that scans the text of a page and prints it out? All you god damn CS dropouts and none of you ever had that homework assignment?


 No.872987

>>872935

>this projection

Smarter people already know about wget and lynx anon. Maybe if you'd learn a little about computers and computer people you'd know that we're lazy enough to use proven solutions rather than waste time and energy doing shit that's already been done.


 No.873275

File (hide): 6bd29e6badcec02⋯.png (47.9 KB, 779x527, 779:527, adcucks.png) (h) (u)

>>872261 (OP)

>Are you a human /tech/?

I identify as bicurious dragonkin

>Is there an industry collecting keyboard events, mouse events, scrolling, focus and hover behavior, and so on and then using it to see if you're a real person?

pic related

>Are they using data they collect to profile you possibly down to the individual level?

They wish.


 No.873302

>>872342

Easy. With JS you can use event listeners that fire off everytime the mouse moves (or other events like keys ;). This is the premise of the new invisible captcha that's being test-driven on 4chan.

>>872327

You can, it just requires more time and R&D to figure out tricks in CSS/HTML/browsers. JS works extremely well because browser developers regularly forsake security for "features." If you need evidence, the most notable is the mozilla mailing list archives for the "window.navigator" feature and their reactions to users "breaking" its functionality (see: evading spyware).

>>872346

Not when you have a larger dataset than bots. Gulug has the benefit of millions of mouse movement combinations to test against for all valid variations, and then fallback onto image captcha when unsure (which also tests for mouse movements -- for a neat trick, use a chinese IP to search through YouTube videos. When you get captacha'd out and two minutes in you're still clicking through images but getting "invalid," shake your mouse furiously and the next set will pass without any issue). Perfectly emulate is an overstatement. There's a lot of nuance in human movement, and it mostly just looks for averages (which is hard to do without a large and diverse enough dataset).

>>872349

Visual recognition is not the main use anymore. They've mostly exhausted its use, and I believe there is now some other reason at the forefront (besides the aforementioned fallback).

>>??????

There was someone that mentioned obfuscated code, but I can't find your post. So I will reply generally, check these two pieces out. The smallest, is the inline captcha code, and the larger is the "actual" captacha code (which isn't even the full code, the juicy stuff is phoned in).

https://hastebin.com/kakotoyafo.js

https://hastebin.com/unaxucojix.js

A good place to start is to search for mouse and http.

>>872334

Ah, one from the other side! I was working on a team developing a privacy project in this space. We were modifying the Mozilla browser (extensively I might add. So much so you can hardly call it Firefox or any of its derivatives) into a browser that mimics the Win10 Chrome profile. Not just the useragent, which is the most common one used, but also intercepting JS calls (any thing that could be sent back to the server had to be verified client-side and craftily distorted to maintain functionality, while still retaining anonymity), hardware test spoofing (think graphics and processors). We got very good results. Because we didn't just rely on noscript, we could maintain a useable browser for web 3.0, but also trick the trackers into thinking we were .163-.308 SD from the mean. One of the things I was surprised was that not having javascript was a common browser characteristic. I'm not sure this is entirely true (may be a trick!), but we tested flawlessly on all publicly available fingerprinting and tracking services (profiles had to be maintained for anything with cookies and logins, and IPs had to be constantly managed), and some of the commercial tools our devs had access to. In the end, we couldn't do anything with it but sell it TO the companies we were trying to evade. Very few people care enough about security as it is, and the ones that do, will likely not pay enough to make constant development profitable. Oh well, now I'm an owner of an over-glorified distribution platform which pays much better, and doesn't bring with it paranoia!

Besides for a bit of melodramatic scaremongering, the facts are spot on. These utilities are extremely powerful and can be used to do terrible things. However, most who have relatively indiscriminate access to them, are not the ones who have the time, or inclination, to think too deeply on their uses. Governments and corporations do a lot of harm, imagine if they were smart too!


 No.873400>>873502

File (hide): adce4807d4c16b4⋯.png (15.01 KB, 964x580, 241:145, human tbh fam.png) (h) (u)

>>872327

Text is enough for captcha, they just want to grab all the data they can to better fingerprint every individual.


 No.873499>>873665

>>872540

>>872608

So a fp scanner is not "botnet" and is a good thing to have? Palmrest with fp scanner is better than without one (even if the scanner is mostly annoying by getting in the way where you actually rest your palms when typing)?


 No.873502

>>873400

What transformations of relatively short patterns of symbols from a quite small set (as that's what text amounts to compared to images with common bit depth and resolution) are there where humans do orders of magnitude better in average than bots do?


 No.873665

>>873499

Of course they're not botnet.


 No.874735

>>872315

More like, merging their data with other data to enhance your overall profile.

Solution is butterfly war, start posting like your imaginary gay black roommate.


 No.874748

Does anyone actually use this? Over half the internet already uses cuckflare which does the same shit.

>muh abusive traffic

>muh bots

>muh scraping

>muh IP blacklists

etc.

>>872308

what the absolute fuck are you talking about? GUI has nothing to do with this. the same shit can be implemented in a text based system, especially a shitty one like *nix where metacharacters can be used to modify and query the environment. if you're talking about hosting documents, then it should just be something like HTML and no JS. GUI on the other hand is a completely different thing that needs to exist in order to implement things like a multitrack editor or really any program of any sort that isn't just equivalent to a function call with input and output.


 No.874802

Bump.




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