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 No.866878>>867000 >>867466 >>867495 >>867496 >>873444 >>874568 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]

Alright. I've fucking had it with this abomination.

>decide to try out react because i want a job

>version from packet manager is outdated

>install obscure other packet manager to install node and react

>takes 10 years and 200TB of storage to install

>use react to create a new project

>everything breaks

>look into the dependencies folder

>800 packages

How do people put up with this shit? Why is a language that was meant to do frontend shit now used for the backend?

When did it all go so wrong?

 No.866885

You are clearly just too stupid to be a programmer in any language. Any smart person finds the .js files they need and dumps them in a /js directory. If you're too low IQ to do that, use bower


 No.866891>>866914 >>866933 >>867391

Anything that you do on the browser can and should be done with pure JS, anything else is stupid bloat.

Anything that isn't on the browser should not be using JS.


 No.866914

>>866891

Lodash is fine, though. You can even include just the functions you need.


 No.866933>>866963 >>867417

>>866891

>No jQuery because I love the DOM's verbose as fuck API and investigate all the quirks every browser has so I have to write a hundred ifs or polyfill them myself

Yeah, nah. Yer a fag. Also, Node is one of the last comprehensible and hackable server platforms left

>inb4 "ackshully node is not a server"

xddd ebin


 No.866963>>867391

>>866933

If you need jqueer then your website is bloated.


 No.866965

> wanting to get even more intimate with Web 2.0 crapola

What were you expecting, something like TempleOS?


 No.866973

The web is abstractions all the way down.


 No.867000>>867023

>>866878 (OP)

React is a faggot facebook framework and you fucked up by falling for it. There's only two acceptable ways to do JS:

>pure ES6+ node in the server

>angular-cli in the client


 No.867023>>867025 >>867031

>>867000

OP don't listen to this nigger. React is fine.


 No.867025>>867026 >>867032 >>867495

>>867023

How do you set react up to work with an arbitrary backend?


 No.867026

>>867025

Edit the source code to React.


 No.867031>>867035

>>867023

>React is fine

Don't listen to the Facebook shill.

https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/d63249d03488fec1ea92a81ba29f0e87a82feeae/PATENTS


The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice,
if you (or any of your subsidiaries, corporate affiliates or agents) initiate
directly or indirectly, or take a direct financial interest in, any Patent
Assertion: (i) against Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate
affiliates, (ii) against any party if such Patent Assertion arises in whole or
in part from any software, technology, product or service of Facebook or any of
its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates, or (iii) against any party relating
to the Software. Notwithstanding the foregoing, if Facebook or any of its
subsidiaries or corporate affiliates files a lawsuit alleging patent
infringement against you in the first instance, and you respond by filing a
patent infringement counterclaim in that lawsuit against that party that is
unrelated to the Software, the license granted hereunder will not terminate
under section (i) of this paragraph due to such counterclaim.


 No.867032>>874874

>>867025

By using node like your'e supposed to.


 No.867035>>867699

>>867031

>shit that will never ever effect jimmy from /g/ learning react for jobs


 No.867039

There's a new strain of AIDS dubbed Super AIDS out there. Be safe!


 No.867043>>867046 >>867495

Anyone have any resources that show a nice overview on JS? I've always considered it a meme and have avoided it like the plague except for minimal html/css uses.


 No.867046>>867053 >>867063 >>867382 >>867419

>>867043

Once you know the basics, read this:

https://github.com/getify/You-Dont-Know-JS


 No.867053>>867061

>>867046

Hey thanks, this seems to be exactly what I was looking for. A lot of JS tutorials or web-series you find usually just show you something at a base lever rather than teach you exactly how the language works.


 No.867061>>867063

>>867053

Anytime anon.


 No.867063

>>867061

>>867046

Anything like that for C++(17+)?


 No.867382

File (hide): 501c473decc5f61⋯.jpg (69.7 KB, 1196x290, 598:145, lets js boys.jpg) (h) (u)

>>867046

i will be a code artistan in no time :^)


 No.867391>>867395 >>867400

>>866963

>>866891

I bet you make your websites using assembly and Json files, right?


 No.867395

>>867391

why would you use jquery now that react exists?


 No.867400>>867405

>>867391

No, I make it with HTML and CSS. Shove your web3.0 jqueer website up your ass.


 No.867405>>867409

>>867400

>I make it with HTML and CSS

Then your "website" isn't useful. At best it's probably little more than a faggy blog.


 No.867409>>867410

>>867405

One day you'll find out that 8chan works without javascript.


 No.867410>>867411 >>867413 >>874572

File (hide): d9213716d74093e⋯.png (537.52 KB, 1501x997, 1501:997, Screenshot from 2018-02-12….png) (h) (u)


 No.867411

>>867410

>Adnauseam

Ahem, pal, /g/ is two blocks down the road you know?


 No.867413

>>867410

What the fuck is your point? Disable JS and the site will still work perfectly.


 No.867417>>867485

>>866933

>one of the last comprehensible and hackable server platforms left

What the fuck are you talking about? It's not really any different compared to any other programming language implementation. In fact, it's worse at even the most basic of tasks.

Its single threaded design means you either clog up the event loop with time-consuming functions or write your code in continuation passing style where all operations are cut up into small functions that call each other in order to allow the event loop to run. It's the opposite of comprehensible; even with promises, the code still involves passing function objects all over the place so they can be called. Remember that CPS was supposed to be some kind of intermediate representation meant for compilers. Even Go has superior concurrency compared to this crap.

Hackable? What the fuck does that even mean? I seriously doubt you're man enough to hack on the Node.js runtime (libuv + v8), and even if you are, it doesn't make it any more hackable than, say, Ruby or Python. The real difference is Node.js apparently has the biggest number of projects out there; it's even bigger than CPAN. Is that what you're talking about? Size of the community? As if they're going to give you any support on their 10 home-grown modules that provide exactly 1 function each.


 No.867419

>>867046

Why don't people just read the actual ECMA standard?

https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/8.0/index.html

It's not like C and its undefined behavior. Everything about the language is specified. Every feature of the language is there.


 No.867460>>867932

This is not going to be fixed.

Section 30.02 of _Unix Power Tools_ by O'Reilly & Associates says
... /ispell/, originally written by Pace Willison ...

but hey, I was there when Pace ported the ITS SPELL program
to C. Sure I am grateful to have a few reminders (^Z is
another one) of bygone glories around, but let's give credit
where credit is due! Legend tells of a Chinese Emperor who
ordered books burned so all knowledge would be credited to
his reign. I guess the subsequent generation of scholars
were a lot like the Weenix Unies of today.

I don't regard it a "real" UNIX, then again I wouldn't buy a
"real" UNIX, 1970s software technology is not something I
would want to buy today.

Getting caught up in the "pure" UNIX war will lead you to
restrict yourself to "pure" SVR4 implementations, in the
mainstream camp *only* SUN have gone for this. That in my
view does not make it much of a "standard".

If a vendor decides to do something about the crass
inadequacies of UNIX we should give them three cheers, not
start a flame war about how the DIRECTORY command *must*
forever and ever be called ls because that is what the great
tin pot Gods who wrote UNIX thought was a nice, clear name
for it.

The most threatening thing I see in computing today is the
"we have found the answer, all heretics will perish"
attitude. I have an awful lot of experience in computing, I
have used six or seven operating systems and I have even
written one. UNIX in my view is an abomination, it has
serious difficulties, these could have been fixed quite
easily, but I now realize nobody ever will.

At the moment I use a VMS box, I do so because I find that I
do not spend my time having to think in the "UNIX" mentality
that centers around kludges. I do not have to tolerate a
help system that begins its insults of the user by being
invoked with "man".


Apollo in my view were the only UNIX vendor to realize that
they had to put work into the basic operating system. They
had ACLs, shared libraries and many other essential features
five years ago.


What I find disgusting about UNIX is that it has *never*
grown any operating system extensions of its own, all the
creative work is derived from VMS, Multics and the
operating systems it killed.


 No.867466

>>866878 (OP)

>Why is a language that was meant to do frontend shit now used for the backend?

Didn't javascript start out as the front-end version of a backend language?


 No.867482>>867488 >>867495

File (hide): 32c055de68f691a⋯.jpg (27.87 KB, 725x411, 725:411, 13245967419.jpg) (h) (u)

Can someone explain to me why it is considered GOOD practice in js to

>copy your data

>modify the copy

>assign the copy to the original

instead of just acting on the original via a reference/pointer?


 No.867485>>871339

>>867417

While the single threaded design is kind of dumb considering how easy to parallelize it should be, I disagree with your assertion regarding callbacks. Node callbacks are as simple as it gets, with the only problem with them being callback hell, which is a merely syntactic issue solved by Promises and async/await. Promise.all() is also one of the best foolproof concurrency strategies, although being JS and all it wouldn't really be concurrent.

Node is hackable in the sense that it is not framework-y, even using Express, which is advertised as a framework. I am not an expert in web frameworks, but I have used some, an Node was the only one that let me do whatever the fuck I wanted with it due to the fact that everything was defined via language constructs and not humongous black box classes with configuration via obscure XML files and obscene abuses of reflection. In Express, everything is a function; it can't get simpler than that.


 No.867488>>867489 >>867490 >>867495

>>867482

Who considers it good practice? I have heard a lot of idiocy regarding good JS practices, but this is the first time I hear about this. Are you sure it is not standard "muh inmutable" programming to avoid changing the object being referenced somewhere else?


 No.867489>>867490 >>867500 >>867516 >>867694

File (hide): 4460cad1a23d0c1⋯.png (19.44 KB, 799x289, 47:17, imuhtability.png) (h) (u)


 No.867490>>867516

File (hide): 07279fcc7de5178⋯.png (28.79 KB, 934x530, 467:265, part deux.png) (h) (u)


 No.867495

>>866878 (OP)

>>867025

>>867043

>>867482

>>867488

>trying to understand js

the problem is youre not pajeet enough


 No.867496

>>866878 (OP)

>react

That's where you contracted HIV anon.


 No.867500

>>867489

JavaScript semantics are really bad.


 No.867516

>>867489

>>867490

Stop reading tutorials from starbucks sipping hipsters.


 No.867518>>867520

Just don't do webdesign its a waste of time. Let the females and indians do it.


 No.867520>>867546

>>867518

Everything moved into the web. Native apps are over.


 No.867523>>867544

Javascript is the perfect example of open sores software. You can view the source of any website's javascript fuck you webasm but you are just going to run into proprietary and obfuscated source code all of the time.


 No.867544

>>867523

I think the term open sores is stupid, but it would be intellectually dishonest for me not to contradict that. Open source, as defined by the OSI, is actually pretty on par with Free Software criteria for free software if not stricter, and most people who support open source (except the stupid ones, so ignore them) basically agree with that sentiment. The issue with open sores is moreso the fact that it's seen in utilitarian terms; the consequence of that is that there are tons of open source proponents that don't even eat their own dogfood--who will literally use proprietary software out of spite for the bloated GPL because "MacOS is BSD" (it's not). So, the issue isn't that there is js and html and xhtml and all that other junk that's technically open source but still proprietary--proprietary code regardless of source model isn't open source by OSI's definition--the issue is that open source proponents literally don't give a shit whether it's proprietary or not--with the exception of that tiny, tiny minority of people like OpenBSD who believe in freedom zero but not the FSF interpretation of free software, but, unfortunately, they're basically lopped in with those retards by nature of having no alternative.


 No.867546>>867552 >>867701

>>867520

>Native apps are over

This. Locked down trash like the Apple app prison killed native apps for all but the most specialized cases. That's why Rust-based web dev is the future of niggerhate


 No.867552>>867560

>>867546

By niggerhate, do you mean that in the positive sense or the negative sense of the word?


 No.867556>>867564 >>867684

Whats the difference between Java and JS?


 No.867560>>867566

>>867552

>implying niggerhate could be anything but positive

Stop.


 No.867564>>867684

>>867556

One's for pajeets, the other's for women.


 No.867566>>867571

>>867560

Niggerhate as in the act of inflicting niggerhate could have a different connotation than niggerhate as a concept or deeper abstraction.


 No.867571

>>867566

Niggerhate is a lifestyle.


 No.867586>>867684 >>867709

File (hide): 204602593c8fcee⋯.gif (2.62 MB, 360x176, 45:22, 1405533784093.gif) (h) (u)

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 No.867684>>867957

>>867556

>>867564

>>867586

Java and JavaScript were made by and for UNIX weenies. All these Windows users complaining about PHP and JS have never used real UNIX software.

>"We were not out to win over the Lisp programmers; we were after the C++ programmers. We managed to drag a lot of them about halfway to Lisp." - Guy Steele, Java spec co-author

As DLW says, "C++ is the C of object oriented programming languages."

The following was brought to my attention by VP.
Try using bc to calculate the value of 163/ln(163)

Here's a Sun4:

titanic:~[13] bc -l
163/l(163)
32.0-75570-60420-20649243140-49

Here's a DecStation:

hindenburg:~[1] bc -l
163/l(163)
32.0-85189980504841560572

In 1984 I was working on Logo for the Mac, cross-compiled
from a Unix box with the hacked PCC from Sumex. The
assembler on the Unix box started barfing on an illegal
instruction, and I feared the worst. The line was something
like

and R0, 7&F&3C@03^3

Eventually, I tracked it down to the fragment
p & FOO_FLAG
where FOO_FLAG was defined to be 0x80000000.

Deciding to find out what 0x80000000 was in decimal, I
turned to Logo running on the Mac, and typed
PRINT 8 * 65536 * 65536
and it responded
7&F&3C@03^3

Yes, the bug was in the "itoa" routine in the PCC runtime,
the basis for the Sumex compiler and also the Unix box
compiler that the Sumex compiler was compiled in...

And I hacked the renderer code to throw cpp the proper
"-DFRAME=%05d" to spit out numbers the way I wanted
them. Why did I want the leading zeros? I don't know, I just
thought it was cleaner.

So I fired up the animation and let it run for a while
(days).

Well, the output was quite amusing (or at least it would
have been if I didn't need the results for my thesis defense
a week later). The object would go down for a few frames,
then jump up and go down a little, then go back to where it
maybe should have been, then jump up....

After a little headscratching, I realized that the leading
zeros in my frame numbers were causing cpp to treat them as
octal values. How precious.

But still, if I say "#define FRAME 00009" then "#if
FRAME==00009" should still fire (or it should at least whine
at me). Well, 00009==00009 does trigger, but so does
00009==00011.

Huh?

Well, some C library thinks that the nine in 00009 isn't
octal, so it interprets it as 9 decimal. And 00011 is a fine
octal rep of 9 decimal. So, both "#if FRAME==00009" and
"#if FRAME==00011" fired and I applied two translate calls
to my object geometry. And(!), it's not that having a
decimal digit makes the whole number decimal. The string
00019 gets interpreted as 00010 octal plus 9 decimal = 17
decimal. Lovely, not.


 No.867694

File (hide): 7b45f1ae819c439⋯.jpg (233.98 KB, 749x1026, 749:1026, 6503016.jpg) (h) (u)

>>867489

Holy shit.


 No.867699

>>867035

>learn React

>get job coding React

>work way up food chain, recommend React

>destory your company

Sounds perfect.


 No.867701

>>867546

>Locked down trash like the Apple app prison killed native apps for all but the most specialized cases.

<oh no I can't copy the user's address books and run a keylogger to help fund my Russian shareware company


 No.867709

>>867586

Get on my level.


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 No.867896

This thread is why i steer clear of webdev.


 No.867932

>>867460

it's like a bunch of spergs who love free software can't get anything done.


 No.867957

>>867684

Is this a bot?


 No.871339>>873467

>>867485

>humongous black box classes

>configuration via obscure XML files

>obscene abuses of reflection

<I don't know how to use a tool, therefore it's bad


 No.873412

https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/19883

( archived at https://archive.fo/irqOx )

TL:DR when you run npm as root, it will change file owners of essential system files. I am glad that I have avoided nodejs at all costs.


 No.873444>>873456

>>866878 (OP)

Why is a lincuck always slave to some package manager? When you need a Winblows program, you just download a binary that just werks, preferably getting it from the official site of whoever is the author. Also you can unpack a portable program anywhere and it's just werk from any directory, while Loonix programs always seem to entrench themselves into the OS by placing files all over the place (so they can't be easily removed if something is not quite right with the install-unistall script).


 No.873456>>873458

>>873444

>implying wangblows uninstaller and program registry not always broken

Package manager makes all your files organized by default. I don't have to decide where the working files should be place because everything is done automatically. Unlike on windows, I have never had any problem with uninstaller in my gnu os. Everything just werks as it is.


 No.873458>>873466

>>873456

But what if nobody prepared a package of a given piece of software for your specific distro?


 No.873466>>873470

>>873458

You can compile foreign package yourself. If it's windows binary program, you can use wine.


 No.873467

>>871339

>I more or less know how to cope with the most basic features of an overenegineered framework that provides no advantages whatsoever over simpler ones.


 No.873470>>873488 >>873497 >>873500 >>873504

>>873466

Can you have portable programs in Loonix in the sense that they exist in Windows, i.e. that all files that came with the program remain in a single directory? Or do you practically always need scripts which put files in miscellaneous locations and then remove them accordingly upon uninstall?


 No.873488

>>873470

What is flatpak? Although, I don't see a point why I need something like that.


 No.873497

>>873470

>what is static linking

just because the glibc niggers have convinced you otherwise does not mean its a non viable solution.


 No.873500>>874569

>>873470

Wasting space by having the same library installed 417 times? Using insecure libraries because retarded devs don't update the bundled ones?

Sure, you can have that on Linux too, if you're so inclined.

Also, appimages and flatpacks cram the entire "portable app" into a single file.


 No.873504

>>873470

What is distributing the source?

What is using a script to ld_preload them from the current directory?

What is statically linking?

What are meme application containers?


 No.874492>>874499

So I've been browsing 8ch without JS, and it's a mixed bag for me. When I browse 8ch using Firefox with JS it caches alot of shit that even that can easily eat up 5GB's of ram, usually when it's open for more than a few days. When I use 8ch without JS, firefox uses about 500MB, which is way more tolerable. However, without JS enabled I can't use the quick-reply box, backlinks, or the auto updater. I thought about putting together some user JS that just has those features, but after looking at the 8ch.js file I don't even know where to start. Thoughts?


 No.874499>>874505

>>874492

>user JS that just has those features

I've wanted to do it myself too. Wouldn't take too long, I could post it here if you're interested.


 No.874505>>874520

>>874499

That would be awesome. I'm looking through the js right now to get a better understanding of it, and I don't know who threw this shit together, but there's quite a bit of dumb shit that makes it hard to understand. For instance, there's a bunch of one character variable names and functions, and the whole thing is 2000 loc without whitespaces or newlines. About 20000 loc if you want to actually read it. If you manage to strip out all the bloat and get a nice, minimal script, it would be a miracle.


 No.874520>>874524

>>874505

>He is reading the minified file and doesn't even know it is minified

You should read about JS or even 8chan before trying to make that plugin, fam.

Captcha: orbcum


 No.874524>>874531 >>874550

>>874520

>minification

I see, well that certainly would make sense. I think I just need to get a better understanding of the webdev workflow overall, probably the biggest reason I've avoided js for so long.


 No.874531

>>874524

Well, at least you wish to do something. That's more than what your average /tech/ poster does.

It's in the footer already, but I will post it again:

https://github.com/OpenIB/OpenIB/tree/master/js

These files get compiled into 8ch.js, then minified. Good luck.


 No.874550>>874589

>>874524

There is no standard workflow for webdev because there are so many different frameworks and memes. Minification is one such meme. Converting all of the function names and variables into single characters and stripping out all the whitespace literally makes the .js file smaller, which means less bytes you have to transfer over when someone lands on your page, which means marginally faster page load. Another more recent meme is webpack, which is taking all of your code and all of your libraries and all of your HTML and CSS and shit and shoving it into one big single .js bundle. This is again done because it makes the page load marginally faster, since there's less overheard making a single HTTP request vs making 20 smaller HTTP requests. Of course it's also viewed as malicious because both memes make the source harder to read, and the bundle makes it harder to selectively script block analytics and shit. They are still done anyways, because the prevailing view is that faster page loads are worth "m-muh source".

Javascript is slowly maturing though. Eventually browsers will have caught up with all of the neat new features in the language and a huge chunk of those third-party scripts and libraries and frameworks will just go away. My dream is for both node.js and npm to be fucking deprecated by the language itself.


 No.874568

>>866878 (OP)

>decide to try out react because i want a job

>being too out of touch for too long, this is suddenly too difficult

>can't handle it

>sperg out on 8ch like a salty faggot

Fixed that for you.


 No.874569

>>873500

>Using insecure libraries because retarded devs don't update the bundled ones?

Are you sure you want software written by retarded devs in the first place?


 No.874572

>>867410

That screenshot is moot. The site works without JavaScript just fine.

Also, your OS sucks. Get something with decent font rendering.


 No.874589>>874594

>>874550

>They are still done anyways, because the prevailing view is that faster page loads are worth "m-muh source".

It doesn't really make much sense to me that people would rather butcher their source code than say, design less bloated webpages. For example, the size of this page on Apple's website: https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-11/ is about 16MB's, half of that is from images. There are some site's I've seen like cnn or youtube that both have 1MB worth of scripts, so they would benefit from minimizing their code, but I still don't think that "optimizations" like those are worthwhile when images and video typically use up more space.


 No.874594

>>874589

If your scripts take megabytes, then minifying may also do a significant dent in parsing time of the code.


 No.874874>>874893 >>874955

File (hide): 05dc6e634f889d4⋯.jpg (64.1 KB, 254x255, 254:255, 1445998919605.jpg) (h) (u)

>>867032

>nodejs, npm

>Super easy install !

>This destroyed 3 production server after a single deploy!

This issue has been happening ever since 5.7.0 was released a few hours ago. It seems to have completely broken my filesystem permissions and caused me to have to manually fix the permissions of critical files and folders.

https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/19883


 No.874893

>>874874

Linux always break anyway


 No.874918>>874937

For a fun time, try going to sourceforge with plain html browser. Followed a link there today from http://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/games/znake/ and wtf, never seen anything so nasty (and broken too).


 No.874937

>>874918

They changed it recently, it was much better before.


 No.874955

>>874874

Lol I saw this shit while I was at work. Look at the person who committed that code too. Made me glad we use fucking docker containers for everything, if the filesystem breaks you just kill the container and fire up a new one.




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