/tech/ - Technology★

By job I mean can you work as a programmer without a CS degree?

>>866018 (OP)

Yes, have a gitub with an active working project. Smaller and Midsize firms will hire you. Larger companies will use retarded HR firms to do their hiring and they over value tertiary education certificates so you will have a hard time getting into those.

>>866020

What do you mean by active working project? Should I write a bot to incrementally push a project I've already complete?

>>866019

Yes. You will have a harder time getting through initial filters like HR departments, but if you have proven yourself in say open source, then you'll find people more willing to work for you.

Computer science won't teach you how to program, they'll teach concepts that will supplement your skillset. To an employer, it shows that you were able to reach a certain watermark sufficient to obtain a degree, making it easier for them to take the risk in hiring you.

>>866019

It is not impossible. Your first job or two will probably be shit, but it's the tradeoff you make for skipping out on university. Not terrible.

you are competing with the pajeets

you probably code as well as them too

>>866018 (OP)

I NEED REFERRAL BONUSES TO COVER MY BITCOIN LOSSES

if you can code competently and are looking for a first job, reply with a throwaway (but long term) email and i'll get back to you eventually. you need to be competent with linux and c++. you need to have a public code repo of past work as a portfolio (but don't post here). if you don't have one then make a github and post to it regularly for the next six months. TEAM EXPERIENCE SIGNIFICANTLY HELPS YOUR CHANCES. CONSIDER CONTRIBUTING TO UBUNTU OR DEBIAN DEVELOPMENT.

HMU

the best programmer the director of research at google knows has no degrees, hasn't even got high school diploma

>>866071

And what is that persons name

>>866082

if you don't know the answer, which is cool, no one knows everything (though you should kind of know the name of the director of google research and be able to figure it out from) and can't find it out by searching or worse are too lazy :

you're not ready.

Also, the 'tech industry' is a colossal meme, so unless you're a total bro-dude or an infantile nerd, you may not like it. Only do it if you really care about CS.

And, even then, you'll realize that what you'll be asked to do is very far away from CS and barely better than current-age call center work.

GAME PLAN

>be shitskin

>join GSoC

>meet google HR drones

>pull the minority card

>they instantly love you

>get $80K/yr job

>stay undercover/act normal for 3 years

>quit job

>write on your CV "3 years at google"

>everybody wants to hire you

>>866093

There’s a lot of truth to this, I work IT Security, not development. I worked shitty defense contractor job after shitty defense contractor job, once I got 2 foutune 500 companies on my resume (Dell and Northrop Grumman, I can find jobs fairly easily now.

If you live in yurop then you will never find a job without a masters degree

Why not? I'm self employed making more than all my irl friends combined, dropped out of college.

>>866100

But did you make 400k starting?

>>866104

no, he has zero irl friends

Dude, I have a master's degree in CS and I can't get a job that's more than janitor shit. No, you can't. Not without having ridiculous work done on your own time AND mastering CS concepts relevant to the job you'll be applying for (by that I mean knowing every sort algorithm by heart. What, you haven't implemented any in the past 10 years and you can just google them anyway? Too bad, you're out. Next applicant please).

>>866087

Peter Norvig has a PhD from berkeley you fucking inbred. Then again nobody needed to google your IQ given your posts.

>>866018 (OP)

No, but you can start your own business. Work at Wendy's and live with your parents to get some capital, then you can play by your own rules.

i think a lot of people on here dont have degrees or any desire to work hard for money.

>>866021

That's pretty clever if you want to look active. He means you should maintain some code that other people might actually use.

>>866096

>Northrop Grumman

Most likely this is what has the most impact. You somehow managed to get a security clearance despite posting to chinese cartoon forums.

>>866018 (OP)

I got a programming job with an Electrical Engineering degree.

>>866167

I'm >>866144 and I'd love nothing more than to work hard, but everytime I apply anywhere, or respond to an offer made to me directly, they say the same thing: there's no upgrading from the job I'm being offered to the one I want no matter how long or hard I'd ever work for them because they're parallel tracks. Also the job they offer, on top of that, has no upward mobility whatsoever.

>>866187

>be greedy and stupid

>act surprised when you don't get jobs

You don't fucking want "upgrading" anyways. Do you know what higher tier people do? Manage. They manage other people and spend all of their god damn fucking time in god damn fucking power point and excel so they can make 10 different meeting presentations a day to illiterate businessmen.

>>866191

>too retarded to read

>project failures upon others anyway

typical.

As a potential employer with a CS degree, I would avoid hiring people with degrees because they only really teach you to think you know a lot about computers. Without actually knowing anything that is useful.

>>866196

>project failures

I'm not the unemployed one, anon. Nor am I the one that refused job offers because his head was so far up his own ass he couldn't bear the thought of anything less than a senior position fresh out of college.

>>866145

Read it again, faggot.

>the best programmer the director of research at google knows has no degrees, hasn't even got high school diploma

The best programmer Peter Norvig knows has no degree. He is talking about Jamie Zawinski, you fucking brainlet pajeet.

>>866202

Thanks for demonstrating how far you'll go to maintain your self-delusion. Your refusal to read and to stop projecting will not be forgotten.

>>866205

>he

Who do you think you're fooling, brainlet?

>>866206

I'm starting to understand why you never managed to get a job. We always get college grads like you in interviews and you can tell immediately when they're too full of themselves to be taught anything.

>>866018 (OP)

>>866019

The question in the subject field and the question in the comment field are entirely separate and unrelated.

>Can you get a job without a computer science degree?

If you have the right connections, sure. Otherwise, no. Even with one it's still hard.

>Can you just teach yourself how to code with online tutorials or read programming books?

Yes, totally. Very easily. In fact you will learn a shitload more from doing that than you ever will in school.

>>866214

Also I should add that this is for in the US. It seems to be much different for dirty foreigners, but in the US your resume will be thrown out immediately by most companies if they don't see a 4-year degree on it.

>>866208

Not you, I'm sure. The genius who can't understand a simple sentence.

Back on topic, you can get a job in CS without a degree, as long as you are exceptional. Now, i just don't know why someone would willingly be a corporate drone.

Get a degree in another area which you at least bear studying and can land you a good job. Then, use your spare time to study CS. With the knowledge you can start a business in the area or something. The idea here is that you will end up hating CS if you work with it for others.

>>866213

Here's a hint for the next time you try to larp as being employed: the only people who think working hard is a thing are people who've never held a job before.

>>866217

This is something I've been thinking about, but I can't think of any jobs that make decent money and wouldn't make me want to kill myself by working them. How useful is a business degree these days?

>>866219

> I can't think of any jobs that make decent money and wouldn't make me want to kill myself by working them.

What about a judge at a beauty contest?

>>866217

When do you plan to stop being retarded?

>>866205

>>866087

>>866071

The only one at fault for the misunderstanding is the guy writing

<the best programmer the director of research at google knows has no degrees, hasn't even got high school diploma

What a clobbering of the English language. Try:

>The best programmer, that the Director of Research at Google knows, has no degrees -- doesn't even have a high school diploma.

>>866222

Thanks for proving once more that you've never held a job and have no clue what you're talking about.

>>866219

>>866219

That's hard to answer because it varies greatly based on where you live.

To clarify a bit, i was suggesting a job which pays "enough". Of course, how much is enough will depend on the lifestyle you plan to have. If you are one of those plebs who always want the latest shinny product, you have no option than to be a corporate drone, in order to get a big paycheck.

But for those in this board who aren't 15 yo LARPers, a simpler lifestyle should suffice. So after your normal work hours, you can get home and study CS/write free software and apply that knowledge in your daily tasks. That way it will be an enjoyable task rather than an annoying job.

>>866233

That's true, but most people who say that think that living off more than beans and rice exclusively from your 3-hours-to-work ghetto niggerhood appartment is decadent. And it's not like you can afford a house or kids on poverty wages.

>>866239

I agree, and by no means was i suggesting a job with poverty wages. The secret lies in the middle: don't be the corporate drone working for 100k+ a year, and also don't be the nigger with 5 children working for 30k a year.

Where to get a job like that? As i said, depends on where you live. You have to weigh the pros and cons, then choose a path.

>>866233

>If you are one of those plebs who always want the latest shinny product

Not really, but I like being able to travel, and racing is a stupidly expensive hobby.

>So after your normal work hours, you can get home and study CS/write free software and apply that knowledge in your daily tasks.

>he thinks I'm going to come home from work only to work more

???

>>866248

Only people who earn 100k+ are able to travel, right faggot? Anyway, i said you should plan according to your ambitions.

>he thinks I'm going to come home from work only to work more

Supposedly, someone who wants to work with CS likes the subject. Keeping it as a hobby isn't work. But yeah, this just proves you are a millennial who got into CS because it pays well, not because you like it.

>>866251

>But yeah, this just proves you are a millennial who got into CS because it pays well, not because you like it.

No, I got into "CS" because programming is literally the only marketable skill I possess. So it made sense to make that my degree because the fuck else am I gonna do?

>>866223

your rendition was even worse

>>866287

>>866223

A refactor is needed.

>The best programmer that Peter Norvig knows doesn't have any degrees, not even a high school diploma. Peter Norvig, if you don't know, is the Director of Research at Google.

>>866205

>JWZ is the best programmer this guy knows

hhahahahhahaha

>>866018 (OP)

Daily reminder that computer science is not a degree in computer programming. You do not need to touch a computer program to study computer science.

>>866427

So what kind of degree will get me into programming?

you don't need a degree to get into programming, getting a CS degree will help you bigly though

>>866448

Every time someone says the word "bigly" I assume they're a Pajeet. It's such an "Indian English" word.

>>866287

My rendition was your rendition, but with proper formatting.

>>866333

That bloat at the end. Try,

>The best programmer Peter Norvig, Google's RD, knows has no diplomas, not even one from high school.

>>866429

Software Development is the meme I fell for because I believed people saying CS isn't for programming. It's true that CS isn't focused on programming languages, and is instead focused on algorithms and stuff, but that's exactly what you need. Learning a language is easy, it's just memorizing syntax. Learning the math, algorithms, and general concepts is what's vital.

>>866456

its a smooth brained /r/the_donald word, not indian.

>>866465

>not yugely

>>866457

Honestly >>866205 said it better than anybody else.

>>866018 (OP)

Yes.

sage

>>866476

The best programmer Peter Norvig, the director of research at Google who also has a PhD from Berkley, has ever met in his entire life on planet Earth, despite not having any degrees, such as a high school diploma and a college certificate, has to be Jamie Zawinski, a high school dropout.

>>866018 (OP)

Yes. Was in "computer science/software engineering" (which is really just a shitty software engineering course) at college and got a job in the summer, then quit school. It's hip now to hire people who don't have proper credentials (not like that exists in the field of software engineering anyway).

Most people here seem to hate programming as a job. I think I have autism or something, because I actually love working on my "boring" programming job. I like the act of programming itself and creating a program that does this. Anyone else thinking like this?

>>866967

s/does this/does things/

>Can you just teach yourself how to code with online tutorials or read programming books?

Why not? If you've been teaching yourself skills then,

I assume it's a computer-related job but what kind?

9-5 job? Requires degree

A home-based remote management job? Maybe but very specific

>what is self-employment

Entrep? Yes

Startups? Yes

Scam? Yes

As long as you're selling and not just git rp-ing or making imageboard #557

If you've zero shed of creativity then you're not fit for the last 3.

>>866020

Those HR firms are comprised of damsels who overvalue their own tertiary education (which is almost always some shit tier "liberal arts" degree or something anyway) and have acquired a deep despise for anyone without a degree. They consider candiates without degrees as quasi-subhuman (at least if they are white straight males who can't be used as "diversity hires") and utterly unworthy of an office job, even uworthy of their time. One can beg and bang their head agaist a wall, but they won't budge by and inch - into the trash goes his resume and that's it.

>>866968

That's inefficient, are you sure you're autistic?

sed -i s/does this/does things/

>>866100

Being self-employed is essentially running your own business rather than working for someone else, it's not equivalent to finding a job in someone else's company. Many start their own business precisely because the can't seem to get hired anywhere. But then there's those who don't have a degree and neither are in the right disposition to run their own bussiness (as that's what "self-employed" actually means, as mentioned above already)? What about them?

>>866191

If you're a tier-1 support monkey answering phone calls and resetting passwords there's generally at least two "upgrade" options, one being becoming the immediate manager of other tier-1 support monkeys, and another becoming a tier-2 support monkey who doesn't need to take phone calls from end users and reset their passwords, but can work on solving more complex and interesting problems. But according to you, only the first mentioned "upgrade" option exists and the other doesn't.

>>866456

The word "bigly" does actually exist, except it's not the adverbial form of the adjective "big" (which is just "big", duh), but has somewhat of a distinct meaning.

>>866223

Those commas you inserted are not only superfluous, but just wrong - at least in the English language.

>>866018 (OP)

Learn how to program (if not for a job, because it's useful knowledge for anyone who uses a computer daily and a great hobby)

Develop a portfolio (Proof of concept work, prototypes, clones of other programs)

Have an active project and devote some specific time to it - include this information in your application.

Go for certifications if you can. Networking certs and general IT certs are easy to get. Hell get a certification in microsoft office, you'll only improve your chances of landing a job.

As long as you don't have or can fill the gaps of your CV, let's say you worked on projects and port folio

If your CV is full of gaps for watching anime then get rekt

>>866105

Good post.

>>866018 (OP)

This anon did. I have done a lot of coding over the years though - I was doing assembly on a zx81 ("pregnant calculator") in 1982, aged 11. These days I do C# / SQL / XSLT / Python (and a few other bits and pieces as required), and make a pretty decent living.

My take on programming, is that you really have to be able to read code. Your own at first, to get the feel of the syntax. Then you need to read lots of other people's code. There's always something someone else's code can teach you, even if it's how not to do it.

Also, there's plenty of primers on algorithms. You will need to have a decent understanding of these; what goes where; the drawbacks and benefits of each. You might not be expected to write p-code for a shell sort at interview, but you should certainly know the use cases to which it applies.

GL anon. Also, the anons who say get a GitHub on open source - I've not needed to do that, but it seems really good advice. I tend to be a bit aspie about my code (what a surprise, eh?) and I don't obfuscate nor attempt to hide/protect/conceal anything I've done. The knowledge that someone else can look over, and analyse the faults in your implementations, will keep you from becoming lazy. Everyone makes mistakes, sure - but it's the mark of the bullshit artist that they'll do a half-arsed job and try to be evasive about it.

Best of luck, anon.

What if I shunned (((GitHub))) and kept my portfolio on GitGud instead? Would it hurt my chances of getting hired much?

>>868764

>not get lazy because some random people will be looking over your code

A compelling argument, Anon. Do you really have to spread your asshole open for the entire world though? Or can you get some kind of semi-private profile that unlists all of your work and is only available to people who you give the link to? I.e. put a link to your profile on resume, but everyone else can fuck off. Lastly, is it required to use your real name as an account name? Prior to the great social media Pozening, it was common knowledge never to post personal information on the internet.

>>868798

I wanted to ask a similar question... Is (((Github))) mandatory or can you use an alternative?

>>868818

>>868798

gb2reddit, shlomo

>>867259

If you're working in phone support at all you've fucked yourself. Why the hell bother learning how to program if you pick a job where literally nobody at any level is involved in programming?

>>868861

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

>>869168

>reddit

>schlomo

>for saying (((Github)))

Accusing others of being reddit merchants when you are one your self?

>>866018 (OP)

The money behind the hedge funds is behind the corporations, which is the same money behind the universities. They are a stubborn and violent clique that is more interested in pursuing destructive social policies than advancing technology. That is why they hire more H-1B drones than they need, for demographic change and headcount status. You will have to "go rogue" through smaller tech companies.

If you write disruptive software, make sure there is a way the bad guys can get derivable copies of it too or they will kill you ("suicide","cancer", etc). That means give away the source code or sell forks of it.

>>866022

Sorry but that's kinda quaint. Managers today are SJW robots. They are too incompetent to do the right thing. They don't even know how to make money or preserve their own product lines. They just follow whatever horseshit they were fed in university as if Moses brought it down on tablets.

>>868798

>>868818

tfw you think you can program but cant set up a webserver by yourself...

>>866022

>Computer science won't teach you how to program, they'll teach concepts that will supplement your skillset. To an employer, it shows that you were able to reach a certain watermark sufficient to obtain a degree, making it easier for them to take the risk in hiring you.

/thread

>>870398

It depends on the manager. Some of them actually know what they are doing and want to get things done.

I personally think that the problem is the justification of their own overeducation. A recent Economist study found that 2/3 of Americans with college degrees are doing work that the majority of the workforce 50 years ago didn't have a degree. So 50 years ago, the average person doing that job didn't have a degree. For most degree-holding Americans, the requirement for a degree in their job description is only there to A) make HR's job easier, or B) ensure that little Sally, HR's friend's college educated daughter, gets that job. Laziness and/or nepotism.

Now, for a rant: this is what Feminist mean when they talk about "White Supremacy". White Americans built a system which favors white children (and it's fair to say that they did so because white people built the country). The system favors white children by favoring college education, as white children are more likely to have gone to college (we call this being a good parent: something liberals despise). The problem that I have with Feminists is that they perpetuate the system. They "rail against the system" in such a manner as to perpetuate it. They're not going to go to HR and say "this sweet journalism job I have doesn't require a college education". No, they go and say "colleges should lower standards for 'oppressed minorities' so they have the same opportunities". These people are working in fields that don't require a college education; they know that they don't use their own college education; they know that their education taught them nothing useful. They are caught between the reality of their own experience (that a college education is useless) and the desire to validate their own affluence. So, these SJW managers are looking for a degree in order to validate themselves, while simultaneously believing that all people are fungible and whatever work being done takes zero skill.

From my vantage point: a CS degree helps one not be a Josh Moon. It will help you in not botching something horribly, and help you to dig in to what is wrong. I know too many people with CS degrees that can't code for shit, and too many people without that are good programmers.

>>870508

Daily reminder that computer science is not a degree in programming and that you don't need to touch a computer or a computer program to study computer science.

>>866018 (OP)

why do people keep making this thread? trendy startups will gladly hire you if you are a dropout because it's trendy. even normal small businesses might hire you. you don't even good, you just need to know how to shot web.

>>870508

>>870526

>>866018 (OP)

Daily reminder that computer science is not about computers.

Daily reminder that computer science is not about science.

>>870577

What type of nigger school do you go to? All we do in CompSci is program computers and learn logical concepts.

>>870583

>he's not aware that computer science is more like magic

>laughingabelson.webm

This used to be possible like 10 years ago or more. Now I think it is very unlikely

>"people who neither have a degree nor are currently in university need not apply"

>"people who are 30 and older need not apply"

>"people who have ever been NEET for even as long as only six months need not apply"

>>870508

>A recent Economist study found that 2/3 of Americans with college degrees are doing work that the majority of the workforce 50 years ago didn't have a degree

And now you """need""" a degree to do any sort of entry clerk job (and if you don't have one, it's being implied you should settle on sweeping the streets as a career - don't hope for a burger-flipping job, as most burger flippers also have degrees nowadays).

>>870593

>windows icon

he's trolling

>>870686

>don't hope for a burger-flipping job, as most burger flippers also have degrees nowadays

I don't know if this is true - but the robot doing the burger flipping will certainly work for a lesser wage than you will!

>>870719

And what do DOS icon dudes do?

>>870722

That's yet another thing. After menial/physical labor is fully automated, will all people without a university degree become literally unemployable and will either have to rely on some kind of neetbux (if at all available) or else turn to the dindu ways to make ends meet?

>>870728

>the turk ar jerbs!!1

kill yourself and never post here again

>>870583

you're calling people niggers and yet you think programming is "computer science"

>>866287

>>867266

I'm not that Anon but at least his rewrite made it obvious that "knows" wasn't some sort of megatypo for "now."

>>867121

This. Those retarded used up whores are pissed that someone can be successful without a degree when they can barely compete with one. Unless you are a glutton for abuse, don't even bother applying to large businesses and corps that use HaRpies. Think of it this way, they don't deserve your talent if you have any.