/tech/ - Technology★

>>839716 (OP)

As long as the major ISP's all own the internet infrastructure, what's from stopping them from making it against TOS and shutting your meshnet down?

>So, net neutrality is down the shitter

good. stopped reading right there

sage

>>839716 (OP)

>Ctrl+F mesh

Uh huh. Should have Ctrl+Fed for /g/ternet, because that's the term the other meshnet timewasters used in their thread, which is still in the catalog.

A handful of basement-dwelling NEET autists with no money and no friends, spread out all over the place, many in flyover country in the U.S. and Canada, are not going to build a viable meshnet.

But if flashing your router gives you something to distract you from the ultimate meaninglessness and pointlessness of your existence, go for it, buddy.

>>839725

It's like saying you can't have your wifi but must have a contract for each device. (some early dsl era isp-s had something like that in the contract)

>>839725

here's some inspiration for you https://github.com/redecentralize/alternative-internet

https://github.com/moarpepes/awesome-mesh

https://staltz.com/a-plan-to-rescue-the-web-from-the-internet.html

The thing about meshnets is, you have to get them popular on a local scale. There are a couple cities that managed (NYC, Detroit, Toronto, parts of spain, Cuba) to get hundreds and even thousands of people on their local meshnet. All they really needed were flashed routers, and some powerful ass antennas. Great way to share local information, and services for free, but you'll still have to establish a partnership with a provider to connect that meshnet with the Internet, although that's not entirely necessary for what you want. If you're serious about it though, I recommend you have a discussion about it with your local tech community, regardless of how insufferable they might be. They have the skills and connections to get it done. It's a great idea, and it has been proven to work (if if can work in Detroit, and a couple of random boonies it can work anywhere.) You absolutely MUST do it locally first if you want it t get anywhere, otherwise you're just masturbating with tech. Good luck OP!

>>839716 (OP)

I'll make a logo

>So list the router distros and everything that would support mesh networking!

You're expecting someone else to do all the hard work.

Show me scalable mesh routing protocols. Show me decental address assignment at a global scale. I'll wait.

>>839813

>Show me scalable mesh routing protocols.

babel

>Show me decental address assignment at a global scale.

cjdns

>I'll wait.

the rest of the world will leave you behind

>>839813

>You're expecting someone else to do all the hard work.

Nope, I expect guys sharing their tech experience on a tech board.

>>839860

>babel

>cjdns

Does it scale? Does it work with untrusted routers? How do you combine cjdns' address assignment with babel?

>>You're expecting someone else to do all the hard work.

>Nope, I expect guys sharing their tech experience on a tech board.

Ok. I don't think this is going to go anywhere because of a number of reasons:

- low bandwidth

- low range

- low reliability

- legal restrictions

- all leading to low participation

I'd love to see a global zero trust mesh network operated by hobbyists. But why would anyone use a network that is vastly inferior to the internet? The technology for something useful isn't there yet and /tech/ won't create it.

>- it's finally like intended: decentralized; no isp control

You know what people would use and what would be easier to implement? Be an ISP. Create an ISP company that people love to work for, not because they're soulless money golems. Or work for an ISP as a network operator. Convince your boss why fucking around with customers is bad for business. Meet other network operators and have a beer with them, find out who to trust and who not. Refuse to implement anything shady. This isn't for everyone of course, but it has the greatest impact. Works pretty well in my country.

>>839895

>- low bandwidth

At start. You can't expect gigabit over wifi everywhere on day one.

>- low range

That's the stuff we must check and optimize. My concern is that 2.4 GHz is already littered so bad that a meshnet will make it worse. (and there is 5GHz and other ism bands)

>- low reliability

Also day 1 expectations is too high and a mesh network is the definition of reliability.

>- legal restrictions

ISM bands are used and it's not Cuba or North Korea.

>- all leading to low participation

I used PDA phones before iPhone was even designed and it was unique to have a smartphone, now everyone has one. Tech guys start something, try to spread (the raspberry pi node is a pretty good solution since beginner tech guys love it) and wait for the boom.

>I'd love to see a global zero trust mesh network operated by hobbyists. But why would anyone use a network that is vastly inferior to the internet? The technology for something useful isn't there yet and /tech/ won't create it.

Tech IS there (gternet guys chose batman and it seems kinda OK for me) just no one wanted to start one. And it's not inferior, it's different. I already played with de idea before and tried to make people join a meshnet at least a year ago but they said that it has no use because isp-s are reliable. And they experienced some problems with their glorious isp-s... And an outage is pretty bad.

>- it's finally like intended: decentralized; no isp control

>You know what people would use and what would be easier to implement? Be an ISP. Create an ISP company that people love to work for, not because they're soulless money golems. Or work for an ISP as a network operator. Convince your boss why fucking around with customers is bad for business. Meet other network operators and have a beer with them, find out who to trust and who not. Refuse to implement anything shady. This isn't for everyone of course, but it has the greatest impact. Works pretty well in my country.

You said legal stuff before. In my country ISP-s are forced to store a lot of data. You can't refuse implementing spying. Telcos must implement a backdoor in the centers since 3G (before 3G "police" could use simple sniffers since 2G had no crypto but 3G had to implement one, the communication is not end-to-end encrypted but phone to datacenter and govs still can wiretap you) so "not implementing anything shady" is impossible if you start an isp.

>>839716 (OP)

>everything that would support mesh networking!

https://douglass.io/

comes with state-of-the-art license

https://douglass.io/the-bcl

>>840262

PDAs turned out to be useful. ISPs and your government will make sure any independent solution will never turn out more useful than their networks.

>a mesh network is the definition of reliability.

Wireless networks are not.

>Tech IS there (gternet guys chose batman and it seems kinda OK for me) just no one wanted to start one.

Batman is a layer 2 mesh protocol. It works well in a neighborhood, but I'd be surprised if it scales to city level. It's like one big LAN. How are you going to handle ARP with several thousand devices? How do you prevent attacks on a batman network without any centralization? How do you route between cities? Batman is not bad, it's not just suited for large, zero trust decentral networks. gternet fags fail to see that because they have no idea what they're talking about.

>>840272

That site is a gold mine.

You guys realize latency goes up exponentially with the amount of hops?

>>840332

Not sure about that, boss. I do know that the flavor improves.

>>840332

>You guys realize latency goes up exponentially with the amount of hops?

Not every network is for realtime fps gaming. Also probably not exponentially.

>>840288

>How are you going to handle ARP with several thousand devices?

Probably it's not a huuuge problem: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6_packet#Hop-by-hop_options_and_destination_options

>>a mesh network is the definition of reliability.

>Wireless networks are not.

We will see the results. Wireless mesh networks is what I'm making currently with Thread for a living.

>>840272

>Blacks everywhere

>Old celeron cpu as server

>The whole site

Really that IS pure gold.

>>840272

This is either an elaborate troll or mental ilness.

>>840355

It's funny how every blockchainfaggot comes with his own mesh network, cuz it's the next hip thing of the month.

The main reason if that every single one of them is a greedy jew who wants to cash his ponzi coin and retire on Bahamas, the networks won't acquire enough scale. Instead of contributing to existing non-profit projects like cjdns, freenet or GNUnet they waste human resources and processor ticks on calculating useless hashes for their "currency".

>>840375

THIS

Blockchain is a good technology but it will be the next hype after dotcom or cloud.

wait, you have built-in cable infrastructure and you can't hijack it, even though it's within reach and not legislated? (it'd take digging to do so, you did say). I gotta do my due research, but I'd be pretty confident that the cable infrastructure is a shared medium, ie, you can possibly broadcast. How about you just interconnect access points with that infrastructure so that you have a redundant connection with the wired. Provide a NFS or even better an IPFS and you'll have people wanting to use your service....

>>840753

> I gotta do my due research,

Yes. You should do some research because it is clear you have no clue how modern HFC systems work.

You could "broadcast" back up the coax to the plant but you wont get past the node. And you will soon notice a maintenance truck on your street searching for the source of the ingress (you) that is causing the local outage.

Since most modern cable systems are Node+1 or even Node+0 so your signal wont make it more then a block or so. You could do better with a wifi antenna on the roof.

>>840726

>>839734

You mongrel fools are retarded, hams have had a mesh net for a long time, look up Winlink 2000.

Doing it with license free cuck radios and stuff is for tools. Shine up and get licensed.

>muh net neutrality

shit thread.

>>840871

pajeet pai

>>839730

pls go

>muh nut neutrality

It seems gternet is down - was it really a honeypot and which meshnet is not one?

>>840356

Probably the latter

>>841072

IPFS

>ctrl+f urbit

>nothing

30,000 lines of code gets you, encrypted p2p networking, acid and revisioned fs, a functional programming language, http server, updates without reboots and probably some other shit I am forgetting.

If you get over the developers love of middle earth it's very promising from a technical standpoint.

>>846967

Urbit is the joke of the century, not to mention it's fully centralized, proprietary and costs money; and the language is a huge joke.

>>841108

>Retards still reposting this edit when the source and what it's for are at the top of the fucking image

>>846997

It's federated, MIT licensed and only costs money for a small address space on their network, just like IP addresses or domains.

128 bit addresses are are free. Nothing is stopping you from spinning up a competing network.

Can't comment on the language being shit or not.

We should use that specter exploit to exploit some boot-loaders and network stacks into servers and routers that already exists to build the mesh network. We need to do it soon.

>>847332

You have to attach to a large node to be part of the network. You need to pay to have access to a large node. Thus, it is centralized and costs money. You can't spin up a competing network since it is proprietary.

>>839730

basically this, op is a retard

>>847812

Okay you don't understand Urbit, cool.

>>846967

As far as individual liberty, and tech is concerned Urbit is the most promising project in this era.

>no bloat philosophy

>FOSS

>a complete remake of the internet with the end in mind

Even more robust imo than other similar projects ie blockstack solid etc since Urbit is reinventing the wheel. Something desperately needed in this age where the solution is to patch up whats broken and continue building on top of that.

>>847877

Go shill your centralized botnet garbage elsewhere.

>>847882

Idk if English is your first language or not, but those words don't mean what you think they do.

Either way seeing as how its libre software, you can always check out their github if you don't want to take my word for it ;)

>>847877

>no bloat

So tell me, can I access it with my VIC-20 modem?

>>847877

>someone other than myself shilling urbit

Whell whaddya know.

>>847882

Just curious, even if you don't like the federated tier system how is it centralized? Proof of ownership of the urbit planets and stars will be on the ethereum blockchain.

>>847898

Probably? It depends on the services you run on urbit.

Net neutrality is about making ISP's pay the bills that google facebook and others normally have to pay. Sage for OP being a fucking retard.

>>848003

What?

>>848003

>Net neutrality is about making ISP's pay the bills that google facebook and others normally have to pay. Sage for OP being a fucking retard.

retard, I guarantee you that without net neutrality soon we will get internet packages in which facebook and google will be in basic package and to access niche 3rd party websites like 8ch you will have to buy expensive full package

Enjoy your high latency.

>>848003

>>857804

>>857828

>>857858

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=B03eByZia5I

>>857868

this

>not *acking the existing protocols

>not enough kungfu

>>857899

You didn't get any of that right. Big companies pay for their infrastructure and send data around. You pay for the bandwidth you use. It doesn't matter if you download 52 Kb or 52 GB because you paid for that bandwidth already.

There is literally no difference between sending 4 GB of video from Youtube, Netflix, an SSH connection or an FTP server.

That's the problem. All data should be treated the same because all data is the same. It's a bunch of packages and discriminating data based on source is ridiculous because there is literally no difference.

>>857922

I guess I'm just retarded then. I thought that data from companies like Google, Facebook, and Netflix take up a disproportionately huge amount of internet bandwith from higher-tier ISP's. This causes congestion not only for ISP's, but also harms companies because they'll have a harder time offering the same quality of service for their customers. In turn, ISP's want to charge these companies, the ones that hold the largest share in traffic, fees so they can handle the infrastructure costs and continue to provide a smooth and uncongested network. That's what part of Net Neutrality was about right? It'd give the government the ability to say that these telecom companies can't discriminate data based on it's origin and that charging companies extra for the higher amounts of data they use is illegal. That doesn't solve the problem of companies congesting the network, though. Their service will suffer, and high-tier ISP's will have to eat the cost somehow. Right?

>>857934

Companies aren't congesting the network because aren't just sending data around, users request data from a server and the server sends data back to the user. That data is paid by the user who pays the ISP for that bandwidth.

All the ISP does is give the bandwidth so the user can request and receive the data.

Here's the thing: the average user now uses more data than before. The sane thing would be to a. ISPs should create better infrastructure to handle all the new needs or b. ISPs should stop selling bandwidth that they can't provide. Of course, they'd rather lobby and repeal a perfectly good law instead of actually investing the money they got from both customers and the government.

>>857984

electricity meshnet

>muh net neutrality

>>>/reddit/

>>839716 (OP)

it's been a good time to start our own internet around the year 2000 or so. the fuck does NN have to do with anything?

We're watching you, non-believers~

>>861420

> tripfag

filtered :^)

>>839754

Underrated post.

>>839754

Everyone connects directly to national backbones. Why don't neighborhoods and city blocks have their own physical mini-backbones that can operate in isolation? The internet needs to become federated and it needs to stay wired. WiFi is just radiation that your body doesn't need, and another attack vector.

>>861586

Not all heroes wear capes

>>839716 (OP)

hey i found the board you made last month

>>>/gternet/

pitty more people arent into this actually

fucking sheep are pathetic

>>839716 (OP)

sorry fag neets, elon musk is building us the space internet while you jack off to japanese cartoons in your mom's basement. you're too late and always were

>>870437

Wifi is radiation that affects no part of your body.

>>870460

Oh boy I'm terribly excited about a mesh Internet experience where latency is measured in minutes.

>>870473

>elon musk

wow it's fucking nothing

>>857984

wouldn't that just be decentralized dialup

>>870473

>us

The fuck you think you are ?