/tech/ - Technology★

>>838531 (OP)

As an example, I installed Arch as a nice stepping stone from Debian but really only learned to type in pacman instead of apt-get. I'd really like to learn the nuts and bolts and be able to apply what I learn to my own problems I encounter, rather than needing help for a every little task I attend (as is my current state).

Make sure you understand all commands you run, with the guidance of man pages and search engines. When you need help, do your own research.

That's it. No gentoo necessary. Can be frustrating, though.

The power user stuff really comes with experience, not marginally-more-ricer distros. Make shell scripts, schedule cronjobs, learn what all the system folders are there for. These will teach you more than distro hopping. Portage is not a whole lot different than Arch in practice aside from use flags, which results in little practical difference in the end.

>>838534

Digging into debug output and logs when things break will only get you so far, unless you learn the ins and outs of every major piece of software. (You won't, and you shouldn't try to.) At best, it should tell you which piece of the puzzle is broken and should be replaced, rolled back, etc. If you've installed an Arch system from scratch, there's not much else Gentoo can teach you.

>Obviously the first step is installing Gentoo

Is it obvious? What do you think installing Gentoo will do for you?

If you're not learning to drive in a Ford, buying a Chevy won't change anything. Distro-hopping won't help you learn Linux.

Also, try out NixOS or GuixSD for a really modern, cutting-edge way to config your Linux install.

>>838561

I want Gentoo so I'm less enabled, and therefore less likely to nope out and just use GUI or copy pasta'd commands. I know Gentoo isn't really necessary to master linux, but it holds your hand the least, AFAIK (save for the odd exceptions like LFS).

>>838566

I started writing my own scripts on NixOS, but the PATH variables and such JUST'd me pretty hard, so I decided before using NixOS, I need to go back and really master traditional Linux. I was having trouble installing from source on about every script, and was just way over my head.

>cronjobs

Don't even know what these are, so thanks. Certainly a lot to learn and I appreciate the leads.

>If you've installed an Arch system from scratch, there's not much else Gentoo can teach you.

I feared this, and after running Gentoo awhile a back with no problems felt I'd run into the same rut I always do. So I guess I'll just focus more on what you detailed in your post, and other advice in this thread.

>>838576

Hold my hand a little bit less.

>>838593

So can you offer constructive advice on how I do? ..Hence the thread.

>>838608

>understand each command you type

I'll work on this. It'd be nice

>use only the command line

Will do, kind of reminds of how one might 'power level' in a video game.

>I started to truly learn emacs when I remove the arrow keys

Ha, yeah.. I should do the same.

It seems a lot of your advice is the logical extension of "installing Gentoo". By removing all crutches you force yourself to learn rapidly.

>>838632

I'm actually coming from NixOS (intended to level up to GuixSD after I get a blob free wifi driver), but I got my ass handed to me way too often. They aren't good for noobies, because if you run into a novel problem, existing documentation and support exist for more traditional OS's, and is a little scarce for NixOS/GuixSD. It's been my daily driver, but I'm fluent enough at rolling my own packages and troubleshooting the problems, so I'm installing Gentoo on a seperate drive for a more stable and productive environment for random stuff. I still love NixOS for spinning up my own environments/shells, and rollbacks are real /comfy/.

>>838631

Thanks for all the PDFs.

>>838531 (OP)

Yeah if you want to master Gentoo. There's a reason it's a meme.

>>838632

Install Gen too.

Can't you just set up a Linux Server inside a VM and tinker with it? You get some systems administrator experience as well as learning how Linux works. And you get to keep whatever distro you have currently installed.

>>838744

>Linux Server inside a VM

This faggotry.

Install the hardass distro.

Buy a VPS and install a VPN/email server/what you want on it.

>>838686

>emacs

Use vim, emacs is completely retarded

>>838987

>emacs is completely retarded

Let's compare a common situation in both editors.

Situation: You are typing and you want to save so you don't lose your work

emacs: C-x C-s

vim: ESC : w RET i

In emacs you do the whole thing with three key presses all with the same hand.

In vim you have to hit 5 keys which alternate on either side of the keyboard.

Don't learn UNIX, lest you get brain damage.

>>839012

Don't learn windows, lest you die of old age and cancer

>>839011

:ino qm <Esc>:w<CR>a

Psssssh nottin personnel kid.

>>839013

I didn't say that. Sadly the only operating environment that's tolerable nowadays is UNIX. I miss the LispMs.

>>839014

<F3>C-x C-s<F4>C-x C-k b M-]

This takes 10 less key presses in emacs to rebind save to taking two keys

>>838531 (OP)

Write your own operating system, it's what I'm doing.

I'm following the wiki.osdev.org guides; trying to stay as close to the linux kernel as possible in terms of coding practices, structure, and the like they already did the heavy lifting there, why reinvent the wheel?says the man reinventing the wheel

There's a lot more to learn than you might think. I recommend following the tutorials and writing out everything line by line, it'll really help you understand just what is going on 'under the hood'.

This took me about two days of work:

https://github.com/JohnnyHobo/ArkOS32/

and the docs are a work in progress

http://arkos32.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

Definitely want to document as much as you can when you're writing it.

>>839014

>>839011

The entire point of higher level programming languages is ease of understanding, not less keystrokes.

>>839055

Don't justify your retardation.

If you can't learn how emacs works, that's your problem.

Actually, even in 20 years, you'll not touch the end. Emacs is massive in term of possibilities.

>>839055

Lisp dialects are difficult to understand?

Seriously, you fucking pajeet, go back to your atom and javascript.

>>839053

>the same scripts for kernel building from osdev wiki

shiggy

>>839053

Fucking stop it or you're gonna make me write a kernel again.

>>839180

No, there is at least one small but very necessary modification but I'll let you see if you can find it on you own

>>839181

no u

>>838987

>>839011

Ok goys let's not get into this. I use both anyway, and advocate that most learn both, but learn vim first.

Vim is nice because it's basically the same no matter who's computer you're using (like qwerty), emacs is nice because you can largely make it your own (dvorak-like). I started with vim for that reason. And programming lisp in anything but emacs is truly a sin.

>>839053

too hardcore for me rn senpai

>>839244

Sysadmin here, I use vim all day. When working on Windows (rarely), I prefer Atom buggy piece of shit over Notepad++.

Step 1: Don't be a fagot.

Step 2: Don't be a faggot

Step 3: Can't be fagged again.

>>839244

Just because you don't use it doesn't mean no one else does. Neovim has gotten pretty good now and I use it at home, and my sysadmin at work uses emacs.

>>839279

neovim is exactly like vim. What a feature. oh no wait it's better at plugins if you were to search, configure and install plugins. But of course it doesn't come with any plugins. So it's identical to vim.

Meanwhile emacs has org-mode in it.

What are some frequent and practical things you can do with good knowledge of the terminal? I assume there are good reasons some of you use distros with little to no GUI.

t. GUItard

>>839244

>u-u-uninstall m-m-my program!

Gladly, you piece of shit cunt.

>>839304

Automation. Anything you do in a terminal can be automated, because the same commands you enter manually could be made into a script. It's worth learning just for that.

>>839053

Writing your own OS will teach you how x86 works, not how linux works.

>>838531 (OP)

Installing gentoo will teach you how gentoo works, sadly. The entire system is built around portage and it's tools, and there's little configuration and touching you're going to be doing outside of it.

I'd recommend trying LFS instead if you want to go in with the mentality of "forcing yourself to learn". Granted, going through the book is very tedious, and you won't really learn much until you get to the kernel configuraton and after your first boot. Then, try building software not in the book. Reading other distro's build scripts and configurations is a good idea and will teach you a lot. Try writing shell scripts for system management, and learn how your computer boots through the init scripts, maybe try to rewrite them to your own liking.

If you don't want to go LFS, I'd suggest slackware, due to how bare-bones it is in terms of system tools. Since every system tool is written in shell and really simple, you can easily read and understand them, which helps to learn how it works. All the additional packages (from e.g. slackbuilds.org) are just build scripts you have to download and run yourself. Try reading through some and creating your own as well.

>>839432

>kernel configuration

IIRC the book pretty much completely skips over this part. It took a bit of trial and error to get everything I needed enabled. Luckily when you change an option it will be a pretty quick incremental compile.

>>839455

Probably because it doesn't know what hardware you have.

>>838531 (OP)

i'd recommend the book "UNIX and Linux System Administrator's Handbook" as it is a thorough walkthrough of the types of systems administration you are looking to learn.

Their homepage is http://www.admin.com/, I'm sure you can find a PDF somewhere but it's probably worth owning the physical book to reference.

>>839420

You write your own OS, you're going to be referring to the linux kernel documentation a lot. Pretty much the only thing that can actually help you is Linux kernel docs, C docs, and of course the x86 docs. or whatever processor architecture you're developing for, I heard ARM is much easier

>>839233

>too hardcore for me rn senpai

Just RTFM and do it. The wiki basically walks you through the entire process.

You have to do a lot on your own, yes, there's lots of decisions you have to make, yes, but they give you the basics needed to accomplish it; you know you're going to do it anyway so you might as well.