/tech/ - Technology★

>UNIX way totally fucked up

stopped reading, only LARPers care about this

>>805592

Original UNIX provided freedom in using software , not freedom as in GPL. UNIX was all about simplicity, and doing one thing and doing it well. I think there is no larping nor shit about it.

>>805580 (OP)

Anon, that's very pessimist. Are you ok?

>>805600

this

There will always be fags forking shit and releasing it for free.

>>805605

mpc still not forked.

>>805595

>I think there is no larping nor shit about it.

You are free to think it.

>>805604

>>805607

I would rather use wangblows than those shit.

>>805610

>Opinion discarted

your life is discarted, and you know it

>/v/ermin

hahahahhha

overall you are fucking ignorant piece of shit

>>805613

Tell me just one good argument about what i have said? Whats wrong about that philosophy?

opensolaris needs shitons of things done anyway

>>805580 (OP)

You know why RedHat is winning? Because you're a retard. You're borderline illiterate, all you do is autistically shriek proclamations of the apocalypse on imageboards, you shill unusable toy projects, and you will never lift a finger to build a viable one because you lack the IQ to do so. Fucking end yourself you worthless gypsy waste of oxygen.

>>805613

There's no need to fork MPC at the moment. What would you even do after forking it?

>>805580 (OP)

Shut up or hack up

>>805619

>You know why RedHat is winning?

Yes, they are a corporation and will do everything to make a profit. They do not care about anything else, even if it means fucking up entire way of computing, just add features to sell more shit. Enjoy your enterprise quality software, I'd rather run toy software written by gypsies than pottering, because his software is clearly not a toy. Yes, take pulseaudio for example, a marvelous piece of enterprise grade software engineering, where randomly inserting crackling for no apparent reason is a feature. It has happened to me on all computers I own (amd and intel hardware) on different distributions, including debian where stability is a main point. ALSA never had those problems. Just because someone is making money of something does not mean it is good.

>UNIX philosophy

GNU is Not Unix. Never has been, never will be.

I have to wonder, how do all these "muh UNIX philosophy" guys post this shit? Modern web browsers (except Links) do much more than "one thing." Same goes for media players, office suites, text editors, desktop environments and even the kernel.

The UNIX way is unsuitable for modern software development. That's not to say software should be light, functional and bug-free; just that the whole "le UNIX philosophy" doesn't hold up unless you want to spend all day looking at a terminal.

>>805653

Unix philosophy is to make your user-shell behave like a programming environment. I.E. that you can build and compose simple 'function-like' objects into a larger complex 'function-like' object. So far as I can tell you can't do this in any GUI directly with point-and-click (or finger-tap) type interfaces (i.e. no composing your web browser's stdout to grep to notepad.exe).

In this way, Python could be an acceptable UNIX-like shell.

This is the inevitable result of linux growth.

It either dies a hero or becomes the new windows.

The only way for us to survive is to stay small.

>>805641

>cuck license

>>805664

lol enjoy your systemNSA freedom.

>>805641

>Linux ecosystem is aping Solaris,

That's not minix or plan9. No one give a flying fuck about solaris in 2017.

>freeBSD is a meme

Alright, I'll bite. FreeBSD's users are hipsters I'll give you that. But in terms of completeness it's a fully functional OS from the get go. and if your enough of an autist to keep the ports tree on DVD's you'll always have a functional operating system ready to adapt to the hardware you have on hand irregardless of whether or not you have an internet. connection. it runs on damn near anything from a easy bake oven to the fat folds underneath your cock, The lowest I've personally gone is a p2 233 with 256mb of ram idling at 55mb of ram. it's barebones enough to stroke gentoo ricer cocks and fancy enough to cater to your cockmongling "lol wat is rightclick" family members so you can stop getting interrupted during fap-sesions to find out that they forgot to plug in the mouse

TL:DR people who don't like BSD are the kinds of people whoms height of command line knowledge begins and ends with debians "apt-get"

>>805692

FreeBSD is Linux-lite and their only value is to corporates looking for the cuck license.

>>805697

>lol bsd license cuck, great thing you can't cuck linux!

>google, red hat, potterware

>>805700

If you don't like systemd you don't have to install it. I don't understand you.

BSD working fine for me.

>>805602

would give new meaning to starting daemons.

>>805705

You are a fucking idiot.

>>805679

t. Oracle

>>805666

Thanks NSAtan.

>>805692

Please stop advertising FreeBSD. The more weeaboo horseshit lusers using FreeBSD, the worse. There is nothing wrong with gatekeeping to prevent Red Hat snoops and more glow-in-the-dark agency backdoors.

Also, in a way, in creating a comprehensive suite of simple utility programs you produce a 'language' which can have 'sentences' expressed for various environments. A given environment where your 'language' can't express a given 'sentence' for is a corner-case or bug which may necessitate adding another or modifying a 'term' in your 'language'. I'm almost sure this functionality could be replicated some-way in GUI form with flat and/or solid shapes, connectors, and other graphical icons.

GNU is Not UNIX is a cute name with which to say "Hey I ape this thing here but I'm totally not it!" with. Though lately some developers are taking it way too literally. Because of this and AGILE, code quality in GNU-land is suffering from morbidly obese code bases with architecture as an afterthought. IMO one major failing in AGILE is the lack of code ownership, and in cases of AGILE where there is some module ownership there is still a lack of a "core architecture team" which sets and regulates interfaces between the modules and preventing the various module owners from needlessly disrupting interfaces and thus all other module owners who have dependency on the module whose interface changes. There should be either a BDFL or BOFL benevolent oligarchs for life

>>805595

>UNIX was all about simplicity

Ah, yes, the times when simplicity was considered more important than program correctness. The times when your debugger segfaulted and overwrote core. The times when you had to memorize a textbook's worth of different command line argument parsers because there was no standard argument parser in UNIX. The times when the UNIX kernel exploded if UFS had a small error, instead of correcting it/returning an error because it was the "simplest" thing to do. Well, at least the Suns booted fast, amirite guise?!

I'm not saying simplicity is not important, but the UNIX philosophy of 'worse is better' is fucking trash and people writing programs with that mindset should drink bleach.

> everything that's not Linux is a meme

That's your problem right there.

>>805653

Modern software is all fucked-up, that's why there's so many bugs and security problems. But you don't have to go "Unix" to write solid code. Terry Davis also keeps his stuff in check, and he doesn't like Unix at all ("they're all busy fighting the last war", "Linux wants to be a 1970's mainframe", etc.)

>>805580 (OP)

>>RMS dies

So what? I'd almost say good riddance. He already wrote plenty rants to divide the open-source community into "us and them". Also fuck the GPL licenses, if I really care about Freedom I will choose a license that respects other developers' freedoms as well... their freedom to use my code however the fuck they want. I have no obligation to protect users who use a derivative version of my software.

>>Linus Torvalds dies and some dipshit takes over the kernel, maybe one person or maybe a foundation.

Would this matter? The rot is outside the kernel anyway, and I doubt that this will change when Linus dies.

>>Systemd is huge piece of shit, imagine how many shits would be there in that source code.

Agreed. But do you notice how your uncucked GPL didn't stop it? There's a lesson for you in that.

>Fork fucking HURD and save yourselves while there is still time, true community is only shit that can save freedom.

So you call FreeBSD a meme but HURD somehow isn't? I have more faith and hope in ReactOS than in HURD. And keep your eyes peeled, it won't surprise me if HURD OS will have systemd in it by default.

>>805580 (OP)

>>RMS dies

So what? I'd almost say good riddance. He already wrote plenty rants to divide the open-source community into "us and them". Also fuck the GPL licenses, if I really care about Freedom I will choose a license that respects other developers' freedoms as well... their freedom to use my code however the fuck they want. I have no obligation to protect users who use a derivative version of my software.

>>Linus Torvalds dies and some dipshit takes over the kernel, maybe one person or maybe a foundation.

Would this matter? The rot is outside the kernel anyway, and I doubt that this will change when Linus dies.

>>Systemd is huge piece of shit, imagine how many shits would be there in that source code.

Agreed. But do you notice how your uncucked GPL didn't stop it? There's a lesson for you in that.

>Fork fucking HURD and save yourselves while there is still time, true community is only shit that can save freedom.

So you call FreeBSD a meme but HURD somehow isn't? I have more faith and hope in ReactOS than in HURD. And keep your eyes peeled, it won't surprise me if HURD OS will have systemd in it by default.

>>805692

It's simpler than that. In the 90's, BSDi and FreeBSD were hella fast on x86 servers. Linux eventually caught up, but BSD was the king those days. People just kept using whatever they were familiar with and/or liked.

>>805779

underrated comment

>>805787

>He already wrote plenty rants to divide the open-source community into "us and them".

It's funny because the only reason we're talking about an "open source community" is thanks to Richard Stallman in the first place.

>Also fuck the GPL licenses, if I really care about Freedom I will choose a license that respects other developers' freedoms as well... their freedom to use my code however the fuck they want. I have no obligation to protect users who use a derivative version of my software.

<I'm not free if the Constitution forbids me from punching random people on the sidewalk

You're a fucking moron.

>Agreed. But do you notice how your uncucked GPL didn't stop it? There's a lesson for you in that.

Malicious or bad software can be written regardless of license. The GPL gives users the freedom to fight back and allows developers to rest assured that their code will remain free and without some third party modifying it and reselling it. That's the reason why the GPL is more popular than the *BSD licence.

>So you call FreeBSD a meme but HURD somehow isn't? I have more faith and hope in ReactOS than in HURD. And keep your eyes peeled, it won't surprise me if HURD OS will have systemd in it by default.

<HURD OS instead of GNU

<doesn't known that systemd depends on the Linux kernel and can't be ported

Fuck off LARPer.

>>805787

You've got it wrong. The open source community exists because they wanted to divide themselves from Richard Stallman's free software community. They don't want to promote user freedom.

The GPL licence's purpose is to protect software users from people who would fork free software into proprietary software.

>>805787

There is no Hurd OS. There is only GNU OS and the Hurd is one part of GNU.

>>805855

>worship RMS

>call other person moron/larper

>something something freedom

irc fags are posting again

>>805868

>name-calling instead of addressing the points presented

>some of which prove xe doesn't know what xe is talking about

Fuck off LARPer.

It's the GNU muh free pedantry that allowed seven years of critical computing history to pass before a working operating system was even created, by which time proprietary shitware had already cornered the market. Everything you're complaining about now you brought upon yourself with your own autistic neckbeardedness.

>>805875

>*BSD in legal trouble because "muh proprietary code"

>literally nothing was made for YEARS and nobody wanted to touch BSD code in fear of legal retaliation

>"it's RMS' fault XDDDD"

Kill yourself.

Gommies who call BSD a "cuck license" think like Bill Gates does about software: that it's the end-all be-all item of value and is ultimately "the product."

No it's not the software which is the item of value, but the ability and skill to convert a problem with boundary conditions into algorithms, then secure and efficient executable code. In the real world, it's not the code itself one produces which is of value, but the mind and skill behind it. A good programmer is both a good problem solver and good orator/linguist.

BSD is not a cuck license, it is a portfolio which opens opportunities elsewhere.

>>805600

i think you mean systemd-doom

>>805880

No, the GPL (and copyleft) exists because software is a tool, which is supposed to do what you, the user (developer/end user/whatever), wants. It makes sure users of the program will have the ability to do whatever the fuck they want (the 4 freedoms), like you would expect from any tool, like a saw or a hammer.

BSD licenses are for cucks because you consent to some faggot coming along and using your code in a proprietary project, which proprietary software has innumerable drawbacks (project is abandoned, can't continue it, can't audit, can't improve, can't port, can't fix shit, etc.) and 0 benefits.

Ask yourself, what's the point of proprietary software? What's so bad about including the source with the binaries? What's the point if not to restrict and limit users?

There is literally nothing positive to be gained from withholding the source (aside from maybe saving a few cents in bandwidth and disk space). Prove me wrong.

>In the real world, it's not the code itself one produces which is of value, but the mind and skill behind it.

If code isn't of value, you wouldn't happen to have a problem with releasing it, would you? :^)

>BSD is not a cuck license, it is a portfolio which opens opportunities elsewhere.

Yes it is. You could use almost any free copyleft license and everyone could see and use your 'code portfolio' just fine.

>>805879

Why would they have to borrow BSD code to write a kernel for their operating system that was allegedly complete except for this missing piece?

>>805894

Most people (and companies) will say that proprietary software prevents piracy, which is total bullshit.

The benefit* of proprietary software is that it cannot be studied and/or reimplemented by competitors. So Adobe can rest assured that the GIMP won't port Photoshop's latest features, Microsoft doesn't have to worry about other office suites attaining 100 % .docx compatibility, Apple can keep it's software locked into their OS and both Sony and Microsoft know that it will take years to get their console APIs/ABIs working on a regular PC for emulation purposes.

Proprietary software is about less competition and forcing users to use your products.

>>805901

They didn't. But while GNU was being developed, BSD was stagnant thanks to patent trolls and copyright shenanigans.

>>805903

>copyright is bad when someone else enforces it

>copyright is good when GPL enforce it

Really makes you think.

>>805961

Adobe say CS6 master collection vs All available FOSS offerings

Solaris (and now Illumos) vs Linux

MS Office vs LibreOffice

etc etc.

>>805580 (OP)

>implying it is impossible to fork Linux kernel

>>805963

You'd likely have to cut a bunch of code you couldn't maintain. No one person can maintain the whole thing now.

>>805964

no shit sherlock

>>805961

>>805962

You may need medical help.

>>805903

>Most people (and companies) will say that proprietary software prevents piracy, which is total bullshit.

Agreed

>it will take years to get their console APIs/ABIs working on a regular PC for emulation purposes.

That further supports my point; there's nothing positive in being forced to shell out hundreds of dollars on a platform if I want to play a game that was deliberately made exclusive.

>Proprietary software is about less competition and forcing users to use your products.

So, basically vendor lock-in, which is actually a hindrance. Thanks for illustrating my point.

>>805957

>>copyright is good when GPL enforce it

copyright was never good to begin with. It's a jew scheme pitched to the British parliament by the Stationers' Company as a last ditch effort to keep their veto rights on printing and publishing. It becomes even evident when you take into account the fact that printers purchased authors' manuscripts along with the rights for miserly compensation (otherwise they would generally refuse to publish them at all). Worst of all, copyright is supposed to encourage creativity and benefit society, which, to tell the truth is the opposite from what's it's doing.

Furthermore, it's not a "good" enforcement per se; there's shouldn't be a need to enforce user's freedom through a license. I'd much rather everyone abstained from using and/or producing non-free software at all.

>>805961

Charging for copies of non-rivalrous, non-excludable goods is a retarded business model.

>Don't kid yourself though that Linux is secure-able from highly sophisticated adversaries

Not like the same could be said about Wangblows.

>>805783

I'm not arguing that. But UNIX weenies tend to sacrifice correctness for a simpler program, which is the problem.

>FSF falls to corruption

FSF's board is already part-way infiltrated by SJWs. GNU requires copyright assignment and FSF can change the license. RMS is the only brake on that train. I'm giving you a heads-up on a "that will never happen" scenario a few years before it happens. How will the end be worded, "to promote more freedom, there are now use restrictions in the GPL for fascists"?

>>806310

>GNU requires copyright assignment

I thought this was only recommended, so that the FSF could use their legal resources to help you out.

sage for probably being incorrect

>>806314

Many of their core projects require assignment. It's how they changed the license to GPL3 of several key pieces of software.

>>806314

Also, all your "or any later version" GPLed software (which is most GPLed software) could fall victim to a GPL4 that states, "to promote equality, women and minorities are exempt from these restrictions".

>>806318

Or even a scheme where you pay the FSF to use GPL4ed software without restrictions, which is more likely with SJWs at the helm.

>>806318

>>806319

It may or may not be possible for them to add that to the GPLv4 in theory, but it would actually be illegal for them to do that to software they've received copyright assignment for.

When you assign copyright to the FSF it goes both ways. The FSF gets the copyright, but you get the promise that they'll keep it free. Specificially, one part of the contract is this:

>The Foundation promises that all distribution of the Work, or of any work "based on the Work," that takes place under the control of the Foundation or its assignees, shall be on terms that explicitly and perpetually permit anyone possessing a copy of the work to which the terms apply, and possessing accurate notice of these terms, to redistribute copies of the work to anyone on the same terms. These terms shall not restrict which members of the public copies may be distributed to. These terms shall not require a member of the public to pay any royalty to the Foundation or to anyone else for any permitted use of the work they apply to, or to communicate with the Foundation or its agents in any way either when redistribution is performed or on any other occasion.

(emphasis mine)

https://www.dreamsongs.com/IHE/IHE-110.html

The FSF knows what it's doing.

>>805600

>540 fucking THOUSAND lines

We have to stop it before it becomes self-aware.

What was wrong with SysVinit again?

Breddy depressing timeline OP. I hope you're not a prophet tbh.

>>805592

GTFO Poettering.

>>805595

This.

>>806444

Nothing, though runit is even better,