[–]▶ No.784850>>784861 >>784878 >>784957 >>785185 >>785230 >>785683 >>791121 >>797197 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Advanced users of GNU/Linux (and I mean advanced), remember to try Source Mage GNU/Linux. True source-based distribution, and (in contrast with Gentoo and Arch) is:
Free from obfuscated and pre-configured code.
Fully committed to GPL, uses only free software (as in freedom) in their main package.
With even the documentation licensed as FDL.
Without 3rd party patches, sensible defaults or masked packages.
Doesn't need obfuscated python libraries, only bash.
No systemd (they've implemented their own init scripts system http://sourcemage.org/Init).
Uses clean dependencies as they came from upstream developers, which by the same provides instant updates.
Can heal broken installs.
Can also use flags.
Do you like Arch Linux's AUR? Do you like Gentoo's portage (or ports-like) package manager? With SMGL's "sorcery" you get all that. Making new spells (package build files) not found in the grimoire (repository of spells) is easy http://sourcemage.org/Spell/Book
Bash hackers welcome! Come and join http://sourcemage.org/
Installing SMGL is easy, here's the simplified process:
>boot a live Ubuntu (or whatever) USB drive
>go to SMGL website and download compressed archive of the base system
>partition and mount partition(s)
>extract the archive onto the new partition(s)
>chroot, set root passwd, hostname, configure network and locale, write fstab, install grub/lilo
>reboot
>compile a kernel (preferably the newest stable one from kernel.org)
>update sorcery, grimoires and the build toolchain
>rebuild the system (hold spells you've already built, so you don't build them twice)
The install guide will hold your hand through the whole process http://sourcemage.org/Install/Chroot
Do the chroot method, since the regular live ISO method guide is out of date currently.
Here's a list of common commands: https://pastebin.com/i4DALaNV
▶ No.784861>>784872 >>784888
>>784850 (OP)
Why would you consider Gentoo as a non-actual-source-based distro?
▶ No.784872
>>784861
If you can run a program without having to open it in an editor and change lines of code to configure it, it's not source based :^)
▶ No.784878>>784883 >>784906
>>784850 (OP)
>linux so advanced
>very magic
>another reskinned redhat windows kernel
Install *BSD
▶ No.784888
▶ No.784906>>797198 >>810237
▶ No.784929>>784942 >>784964 >>784970 >>818567
Why use this over Void or Funtoo?
▶ No.784942
>>784929
Because it has le reddit reaction text maymay font for a logo
▶ No.784957
>>784850 (OP)
>Third pic
>That hat
I'm onto you...
▶ No.784964
▶ No.784970>>785134
>>784929
Been around longer than both, but in general, it just werks and it's very UNIX-y
▶ No.785134>>785152
>>784970
>Been around longer than both
Holy cow, how is it possible that's barely known to anyone?
https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=sourcemage
▶ No.785152>>810315
>>785134
It only reveals itself to those who art worthy.
▶ No.785185>>785191 >>785230
>>784850 (OP)
>Fully committed to GPL, uses only free software (as in freedom) in their main package.
>compile a kernel (preferably the newest stable one from kernel.org)
hAHHAHAHAH yeah my shit nigger
▶ No.785191>>785194 >>785224 >>789054
>>785185
>gentoo
enjoy your python katamari
▶ No.785194>>789270
>>785191
that katamari is working fine, you are just pushing this meme onto community without any sane reason
▶ No.785224>>785227
>>785191
portage isn't even mandatory. You could use Palaudis if you want, or dnf, or yum
▶ No.785227
▶ No.785230>>785458 >>785769 >>785848
>>785185
>>784850 (OP)
>Here's a list of common commands: https://pastebin.com/i4DALaNV
Did this cringefest come from the same bunch of crusty neckbeard larpers that came up with awful names like "GNU Tools Cauldron", "GNU SIP Witch", "GNU Media Goblin" etc.?
▶ No.785458
>>785230
dont bully the wizards
▶ No.785683>>785762
>>784850 (OP)
I'm willing to try it out... but the stable versions are incredibly old.
Is it really worth the time?
▶ No.785762
>>785683
Use the test version.
▶ No.785769>>786430
>>785230
What are you talking about? This only makes distribution more fun to use. Bring back fun into computing, it was lost over the years with introduction of brogramming, TV shows, smartphones, social networks and other things targeted at the general population. You must be member of that general population. There is nothing wrong with that, but you don't have to be rude towards "crusty neckbeard larpers".
>... Computational processes are abstract beings that inhabit computers. As they evolve, processes manipulate other abstract things called data. The evolution of a process is directed by a pattern of rules called a program. People create programs to direct processes. In effect, we conjure the spirits of the computer with our spells.
▶ No.785848
>>785230
$ daemon sorcery >/dev/null
▶ No.785874>>785953 >>789270
Go here if you want to know the difference with gentoo:
http://sourcemage.org/Comparison%20with%20Gentoo
It's seriously very interesting. Sourcemage wants to be a wrapper around LFS. They're using bash to lower the number of dependencies, and to make everything more simple.
I'm on gentoo right now, and I'll definitively test sourcemage.
▶ No.785953
▶ No.786421>>786434 >>786657 >>789054
The whole thing reads like some D&D nerds wanted the AUR without Arch then threw in a bunch of dude wizards lmao jargon to hide the nonsense. I might try it if I fuck up on gentoo again.
▶ No.786430>>786459
>>785769
The wizard stuff is really fucking annoying and is the main thing putting me off of touching it.
Also I started using OpenBSD lately and it's actually THE Unix-like we've all been clamoring for
▶ No.786434
>>786421
With package managers being the principal difference between any distro family, I'm happy to see a decent attempt at making the package manager itself just another installible component of linux.
The only thing that makes Arch ARCH is the package manager. The only thing that makes Debian DEBIAN is the package manager. All of the other bullshit is insignificant minutiae.
▶ No.786459>>786479 >>791337
>>786430
OpenBSD is best for routers and firewalls and good for servers, but it's lack of any kind of simple, yet reliable mechanism for restricting potentially malicious code running locally (MAC's like apparmor, namespaces or any kind of sandboxing tools like firejail) makes it too insecure for desktops
▶ No.786479>>786489 >>786657
>>786459
it's called "not installing any random shit" and "not running shit under root"
▶ No.786489>>786655
>>786479
>heh heh heh OpenBSD is secure, goy
>who uses anything but the base system?
>oops, errata in the base every six months, guess it's not so secure after all :^):^)
▶ No.786655
>>786489
Have you seen the Linux bugtracker?
▶ No.786657>>786726
>>786479
So you consider yourself superior to all of us right?
You know exactly what is infected, what have backdoors and we are all idiots near you? You're literaly unable to make any mistake, that's why any protection is useless for you? Why are you not at ring 0 then. Ring 3 is for peasants, isn't it?
That's maybe because of this that you don't like the "sorcerer" naming. How dare they use some kind of joke theme for someone as important as you...
:^)
>>786421
Too bad the last sentence destroyed your larp.
▶ No.786726>>786743
>>786657
I didn't say anything of the sort. What I said was "stop installing untrusted programs", and "stop giving untrusted programs more permissions than they need". I said nothing about backdoors, or some sort of divine revelation.
The sorcery stuff is just annoying and confusing. Butthurt that I don't like your shitty wizard meme? It was fun in SICP... 33 years ago.
▶ No.786743>>786748
>>786726
>stop installing untrusted programs
literally everything not part of the base system is untrusted, including everything from the ports
I'm not saying that the software itself necessarily needs to be malicious, I'm saying anything that's not heavily audited like the base system might have some buggy code that introduces vulnerabilities and fucks you over, therefore it's untrusted
>stop giving untrusted programs more permissions than they need
and how do you propose I do that?
and please don't say:
>chroot
chroots are insecure by design
>vm
too much overhead, and having each program on the system in a vm would be a pain in the ass
>pledge
I don't have the time to view and edit the source code of each program I install
▶ No.786748>>786750 >>786753 >>786765
>>786743
When I say untrusted, I mean in your opinion or point of view. I trust php-5.6.31, or gettext-0.19.8.1p1, as they come from reputable development teams, and have a strong history of not being pwned.
I am less likely to trust PassCrack64-13.37 if it's something I haven't heard of and know nothing about.
>and how do you propose I do that?
<chroots are insecure by design
False
<vm
Why would I suggest that?
<pledge
pledge support has already been added to many packages in ports and will continue to be added to more. It is also not hard to implement, compared to configuring a GRsec kernel, gradm, AppArmor, and firejail (the latter two of which you have to write new profiles for new programs anyhow).
▶ No.786750>>786756
▶ No.786753>>786761
>>786748
>It is also not hard to implement
I'm not saying it's hard, it'd be nice if every program from the ports tree was patched
but that's not the case (only for now, I hope)
and having to go through the code for each program I install and figure out exactly which system calls it needs is a pain in the ass and a waste of time for me if I can just use GNU/Linux with apparmor and firejail
▶ No.786756
>>786750
These questions apply to Linux and potentially pure POSIX situations.
In response to chw00t, the OpenBSD-applicable chroot escapes require root in the chroot and active knowledge of the running system for ptrace().
▶ No.786761>>786762
>>786753
You don't need to personally go through the code to be sure of all the system calls a program is making, this can be done with static analysis, but there are other methods.
▶ No.786762
>>786761
>pledge support has already been added to many packages in ports
has firefox been patched?
▶ No.786765
>>786748
>When I say untrusted, I mean in your opinion or point of view. I trust php-5.6.31, or gettext-0.19.8.1p1, as they come from reputable development teams, and have a strong history of not being pwned.
fair point I guess
▶ No.789054
>>785191
python used to be broken to me but after I updated last weekend it fixed my shit.
I used qbittorrent without the search engine for the longest time.
>>786421
I have done the most ricer-ish of things on gentoo and it never broke on me outside of python.
It's not the mid 2000s anymore.
▶ No.789260>>789261 >>796785 >>807385
Source Mage is pretty fun.
▶ No.789261>>789263
>>789260
>that font
please naturally select yourself
▶ No.789263
▶ No.789270>>789838 >>789881 >>796832
>>785194
see
>>785874
There is no reason to use python when you could just use bash. While that's a minor issue there is a huge trend in software to re-invent the wheel every time a problem has to be solved. All these different solutions to the same problem do is prevent people from learning and applying general purpose solutions to problems.
▶ No.789835>>789842 >>789854 >>789863
Apparently this distro is about as old as Gentoo.
Why haven't I head of it before?
▶ No.789838>>789866
>>789270
Pypy and cython exist, bash will always be slow as hell.
▶ No.789842>>789854 >>789863
>>789835
Asking myself the same.
▶ No.789854>>789863
>>789835
>>789842
Because it fucking blows
▶ No.789863>>789871 >>789920
>>789854
>>789842
>>789835
Both Sorcerer and Gentoo were first released in the year 2000 and both communities were small, but very active.
The difference is that Sorcerer ran into some problems around 2002 and split into 3 distros: Lunar Linux, Sorcerer and Source Mage.
The creator of the original Sorcerer parted with most of the dev team, but retained the name Sorcerer for his fork and took it offline and into oblivion.
I don't konw anything about Lunar Linux (it appears to be effectively dead), but Source Mage is what was left at the end.
By the time Source Mage was first released, Gentoo had already amassed a large and vibrant community and most of the original Sorcerer userbase had left after the fallout.
Although in the beginning, both distros were very promising, Gentoo was able to gain much more momentum at a very critical time and it left Source Mage in the dust.
Despite all this, Source Mage is still a good distro.
The package management tools work well, and there are people still working on them.
But because it's so small now, there's just not enough people to keep all the spells up with the upstream.
It's sad really, it really is a unique and interesting distro, but it's been slowly dying for quite some time now.
It'd be a shame to let it die.
For those who are interested, you can read some history here:
http://sourcemage.org/History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_Mage#History
The wikipedia page for Sourcerer mistakingly says that the initial release was in 2007 for some reason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorcerer_(Linux_distribution)
▶ No.789866>>789871
>>789838
And dash is faster than both of them. While bash is not completely POSIX you can use it to run POSIX scripts. I don't see any benefit/reason to go off the standard for things that make the OS work.
▶ No.789871>>789882
>>789863
Gentoo is dying too honestly, I haven't seen people talk about it outside imageboards as much as I used to do 10 years ago.
>>789866
I personally use dash for /bin/sh and then my terminals run bash. Whenever I think of setting up zsh I just use the time to play video games or watch anime instead.
▶ No.789881
>>789270
>There is no reason to use python when you could just use bash
Have you ever tried to write bash scripts with proper error handling, data handling, and job control? Maybe you should so you'll understand why everyone who actually writes code dropped bash.
▶ No.789882
>>789871
Dying might not be the right word, failing to grow in market share might be a better way of looking at the problem. Linux in general has been getting more and more popular but what if the more esoteric distros have just not kept pace with that general growth ? The population of people who use source based distros has probably not gone down but the number of people who use linux has gone up.
Most consumers want something that "just works" and can't be bothered to care about systemD or having an optimized system. Whenever I search for almost anything linux related it's talked about in terms of ubuntu.
▶ No.789884>>789889
What's the point of source-based distros? Both Debian and RedHat ensure their shit builds from source and that's been true for nearly 20 years. Are they just for posers who want to be seen with a lot of compiler spam on their screens?
▶ No.789889>>789929
>>789884
>Both Debian and RedHat ensure their shit builds from source
Sure, but they never made it easy. Gentoo and other source based distros did.
On gentoo I can just run emerge <whatever> and I can customize my packages with simple configuration files, on redhat and debian I'd have to write a billion scripts myself and in the end I'd be doing the same thing the gentoo guys have already done for free and better.
▶ No.789920
>>789863
we need to save source mage
▶ No.789929>>789930
>>789889
>Sure, but they never made it easy.
apt-get source and dpkg-buildpackage are pretty easy.
>on redhat and debian I'd have to write a billion scripts
Can you give an example of something specific you've personally done that would have taken 'a billion scripts'?
▶ No.789930>>789938
>>789929
He's talking about installing something not in the official or unofficial repos.
▶ No.789938
>>789930
>emerge
>not in the official or unofficial repos
wat
You mean he wants to make a package from scratch? That's easy on Debian as well, debhelper/cdbs does 99% of the work with very little noise.
▶ No.791118
their init system appears to be some kind of dependency based sysv-like init
▶ No.791121>>791129
>>784850 (OP)
>picture of stallman
>pushes users towards a non-free repository
>rejected
explain?
▶ No.791129>>791152
>>791121
>>pushes users towards a non-free repository
what
▶ No.791152>>791308
>>791129
However, we also have a collection of non-free packages (the so-called "z-rejected" grimoire, containing packages such as java binaries, or nvidia drivers), most of them up to date, even though we do not officially maintain them.
▶ No.791308
>>791152
they're not pushing their users towards it though
▶ No.791337>>809924
>>786459
Considering that a root password that basically turns off all security exists on all Unixes, the best rule of thumb for Unix security is: don't depend on programs that are too complicated to personally audit. OpenBSD already has a fully functional and excellently documented base system. Plus, packages and ports exist and are maintained, so it's not like you are forced to compile everything by hand (the OpenBSD team actually strongly recommends that users use packages so that they can get security patches quickly.) You won't have 200 applications that all do the same thing in the repos like with Linux, but this ensures that the quality of the binaries is always high.
Also, if you were really worried about security, the last thing you would do is run GNU software, which is notoriously buggy and insecure.
In any case, nobody gives two shits about what you do on your PC, so "desktop security" is moot.
▶ No.796719>>818831
Source Mage is user friendlier than Gentoo.
I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to try a source based distro but doesn't want to get into all the complicated portage stuff.
▶ No.796726
>only x86, x86-64, and PPC
>PPC hasn't been updated in 11 years
It's shit.
▶ No.796785
▶ No.796832>>797108
>>789270
>There is no reason to use python when you could just use bash.
There is no reason to use bash when you could just use C.
▶ No.797108
>>796832
There is no reason to use C when you could just use Lisp.
▶ No.797197>>807270
>>784850 (OP)
>Fully committed to GPL, uses only free software (as in freedom) in their main package.
Call me when they go the extra mile and get FSF certification.
I cannot use software which may lead users astray to the dark arts.
▶ No.797198
>>784906
Hw so? Apple and Sony are some of the biggest contributors to BSD.
What, you think companies want to maintain their own billion line patchlists?
▶ No.799044
gentoo has become too mainstream
use source mage if you want to be trve kvlt
▶ No.807270
>>797197
Dark magic has always been an important school of magic, anon.
▶ No.807371
▶ No.807385
>>789260
give me your dotfiles boy
▶ No.809924
>>791337
>nobody gives two shits about what you do on your PC, so "desktop security" is moot
Hello CIA nigger.
▶ No.810236>>810237
>>784883
>uses license written by an actual obese kike
>calls others cuck
Lad...
▶ No.810237
▶ No.810315
>>785152
Similar to how Jesus Christ only reveals himself to those who truly seek Him. Only then do people actually realize how wonderfully He is.
▶ No.812282>>818520
How would one use musl instead of glibc on Source Mage, and more importantly, is that a bad idea? I see on musl-libc.org that it's not difficult to build the toolchain using musl-cross, but how do you tell Sorcery to use that by default where possible afterward?
▶ No.818520>>820978
▶ No.818567
>>784929
How is this like void linux?
▶ No.818831>>820978
>>796719
I don't think asking the user to answer a bunch of questions every time he installs something without detailed explanations nor defaults is very user friendly
I tried SMGL myself and even though I've used gentoo, I ended up breaking something a couple of times
on gentoo, you can just go with the default desktop profile and change USE flags for which you know the purpose and consequences of enabling/disabling
▶ No.820978
>>818520
Why not?
>>818831
True. I've been running it for a while and it's good, but Gentoo is better in most ways. For example, I got the system running just fine, but decided to add an optional dependency to a late addition. However, there's no way to automatically rebuild everything else that could also use this package. I'm not the first one to wish for this feature because I see on the bugtracker an issue for it that nobody is interested in.
tl;dr Source Mage is interesting in a LFS sort of way but it's not suitable for a serious project.