[–]▶ No.1041066>>1041074 >>1041087 >>1041092 >>1041154 >>1041160 >>1041161 >>1041185 >>1041187 >>1041295 >>1041297 >>1041412 >>1041465 >>1041498 >>1041722 >>1041841 >>1058300 >>1058559 >>1058718 >>1059150 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Seriously, why do programs that operate strictly via command line exist in the current year? These days, anyone with at least two brain cells to rub together can create even the most rudimentary UI consisting of checkboxes, dropdown lists, and text boxes. In the time it takes you to write an insanely-long documentation that explains every single command line and its proper syntax, you could create a UI that is intuitive and self-explanatory.
This beef comes from me trying to figure out how to use exiftool.exe to remove all tags from an image EXCEPT for the orientation tag. No, this thread is not for you to tell me how to do it since I have since figured it out, but to serve as an example of the bullshit that is command-line-only applications. Here, take a look at the documentation for this program:
https://sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/exiftool_pod.html
You cannot convince me that all of that is completely necessary. Just make a fucking UI. Otherwise, fifty other people will create their own variations of a wrapper for your exe, you will list each and every fucking one of them on your shitty website that looks like it crawled out of the year 2000, and I guarantee that you WILL NOT update your list to remove the 90% of wrappers that fall out of date or become defunct because the developer abandoned them. So now I have to scour a list of wrappers and download/install/use multiple ones before I find the one I want to use that also fucking WORKS.
If you are wanting the exe to serve as a sort of API then also write a wrapper for it rather than make someone else slog through your wall of text to figure out how to do it themselves. At the very least, create a switch metadata file that provides 1) the data type required for each switch (string, number, date, boolean, etc) and 2) any dependencies and interdependencies between switches that others can use to auto-generate their UIs. This way, you can make changes to your metadata file and everyone else's UI would update automatically if they were smart enough to leverage it.
tl;dr: Anyone who creates command-line-only utilities in the current year needs to kys. Prove me wrong. Pro tip: ██████████
▶ No.1041067>>1041070
▶ No.1041070>>1041082 >>1041178 >>1041737 >>1058053 >>1058279
>>1041067
>what is not having to write a script in the current year
▶ No.1041074
>>1041066 (OP)
You'll have better luck convincing a tree that command line applications aren't always the best way to go than convincing /tech/ of that.
▶ No.1041075>>1041091
It takes longer to look through a bunch of menus and tabs and options than it takes to pattern search a man or to pipe a help blob into grep. It more often than not takes longer to use a UI than to write command if you know what you're doing. It's also much more demanding to automate a UI. It's also inconvenient (and sometimes possible) to use a UI remotely. Every existing UI toolkit sucks, making UI development unappealing and leading to people cutting corners when developing their UIs which is why so many UI-based applications are wonky and inconsistent.
Use a UI if you want. I won't, not will other power users. Maybe find a different hobby.
▶ No.1041079
If you can't see the value in a command line and the flexibility of scripting and processing string streams, then you probably should do us all a favor and stay away from computers.
▶ No.1041081
I actually agree once the thing reaches a certain threshold of complexity. CLI programs are nice if you can completely load their interface into your head, but programs like GnuPG are utterly fucking unusable.
▶ No.1041082
>>1041070
>what is not having to write a script in the current year
Nice bait nigger
▶ No.1041084
Some are so simple they don't need an UI. But generally I agree.
▶ No.1041087>>1041090 >>1059043
>>1041066 (OP)
>why do programs that operate strictly via command line exist in the current year?
If you can into typing, you can into CLI faster then you can into mouse. Also, there are situations where the user only has access to shell, console, or terminal.
>fifty other people will create their own variations of a wrapper
This can be a nuisance but expecting a programmer to write wrappers/GUIs across multiple desktop environments is asking a lot. I've met many programmers who were wizards where code is concerned but never bothered to specialize in graphic design or just did not have the time or inclination to get stuck in the weeds with fine tuning a GUI for multiple desktop environments that would require further attention as updates rolled out.
>exiftool.exe
Sorry, not everyone exclusively uses Windows.
> Pro tip:
More like... Amateur tip
▶ No.1041090
>>1041087
>If you can into typing, you can into CLI faster then you can into mouse. Also, there are situations where the user only has access to shell, console, or terminal.
That depends on what you're trying to do. Some stuff would take even 10 times more effort with no GUI (GAME DEVELOPMENT?).
▶ No.1041091>>1041093 >>1041100 >>1041110 >>1041112 >>1041120 >>1041241 >>1041279 >>1041295 >>1041739 >>1058797 >>1058929
>>1041075
>find a different hobby
<wanting to remove exif data from an image is a
>It takes longer to look through a bunch of menus and tabs
Only if you're a total mongoloid. Intuitive UI is easy to create. I know this because I am a software engineer myself who uses mostly auto-generated UI rather than writing every form from scratch. It might actually shock you to know that the UI controls will actually have labels to tell you what it does. As for tabs, those would have labels, too, not Tab1, Tab2, etc.
>Every existing UI toolkit sucks
That's why you learn to write your own. Take pic related for example. With my .NET experience, I was able to autogenerate a simple form using WinForms which I have never used to autogenerate UI. I wrote it just now in 15 minutes (only took me that long because I had to figure out some of the WinForms API). This is all the code to make it work:
public class OP
{
public bool IsAFaggot { get; set; }
public int GaynessLevel { get; set; }
public string GayName { get; set; }
public DateTime DateOfGayness { get; set; }
}
void DrawForm()
{
var props = typeof(OP).GetProperties();
int lastY = 0;
foreach (var prop in props)
{
Control control = null;
switch (Type.GetTypeCode(prop.PropertyType))
{
case TypeCode.Boolean:
control = new CheckBox();
break;
case TypeCode.Int32:
case TypeCode.String:
control = new TextBox();
break;
case TypeCode.DateTime:
control = new DateTimePicker();
break;
}
var label = new Label { Text = prop.Name };
label.Top = lastY;
control.Top = lastY;
control.Left = label.Width + 5;
this.Controls.Add(label);
this.Controls.Add(control);
lastY += control.Height + 5;
}
}
And that's in a pleb-tier language that /tech/ despises. Therefore, no developer has any excuse not to create a UI. And you can still have your exe work at command line without the UI. You act as if it's all or nothing, but it's not.
▶ No.1041092
>>1041066 (OP)
>Seriously, why do programs that operate strictly via command line exist in the current year?
don't come back here ni/g/ger.
▶ No.1041093>>1041101
>>1041091
>taking 15 minutes to do what would take less than one minute in CLI
The only advantage you really score is where inputting dates is concerned, but when you're not doing that, using an UI is overkill.
▶ No.1041100>>1041107
>>1041091
>NET
What if you want to write a platform independent GUI?
>inb4 mono
▶ No.1041101>>1041104
>>1041093
>using an UI is overkill
No it isn't because you only have to create the code that auto-generates the UI once. For every other application you create, you just reuse the same code.
>taking 15 minutes to do what would take less than one minute in CLI
<conflating using a UI with creating a UI
This isn't for the developer, it's for the users. Putting together an intuitive UI for your users is easy and would save them lots of time reading through your mile-long documentation to find the feature they need. Plus, like I said, this UI is decoupled from your codebase, so you can still have an application that works using only a command line. Smart developers will provide both options.
▶ No.1041102>>1041110 >>1058512
>Seriously, why do programs that operate strictly via command line exist in the current year?
The reason is that all GUI libraries suck a tremendous amount of cock.
>tl;dr: Anyone who creates command-line-only utilities in the current year needs to kys.
Anyone who creates GUI utilities in the current year inevitably ends up kysing. Prove me wrong. Pro tip: I would rather not kys myself
▶ No.1041104>>1041106 >>1041113
>>1041101
>Putting together an intuitive UI for your users is easy and would save them lots of time reading through your mile-long documentation to find the feature they need
"Niggers can't into command line" - T. Davis
This is why we code for CLI only. It helps keep the niggers and CoC pozzing away.
▶ No.1041106
>>1041104
>we code
LARPer spotted
▶ No.1041107
>>1041100
.NET Core is one way to do it. It's relatively new in the grand scope of the .NET framework. Never used mono before. What's so bad about it?
▶ No.1041110>>1041112
>>1041102
>The reason is that all GUI libraries suck a tremendous amount of cock.
See:
>>1041091
>Anyone who creates GUI utilities in the current year inevitably ends up kysing
I create my own GUI all the time and I am still alive. It is a triumph. Okay so NOW I will kys.
▶ No.1041112>>1041115
>>1041110
>See: >>1041091
I see a lot of cocks getting sucked. I'm not into faggotry.
▶ No.1041113>>1041116 >>1041118 >>1041119
>>1041104
>This is why we code for CLI only. It helps keep the niggers and CoC pozzing away.
I will never understand the dogmatism behind script kiddies and their precious CLIs. I suspect that most are in their 40's and haven't escaped the clutches of the year 1995. We are currently in the current year and it is time to leave the past behind.
▶ No.1041114
when the command syntax becomes more complex than a list of path names, the program should become an interpreter.
▶ No.1041115
>>1041112
The don't suck cocks and #learntocode
▶ No.1041116
>>1041113
False, we are in CY + 4. Get with the times boomer.
▶ No.1041118>>1041121
>>1041113
>it is time to leave the past behind.
>efficient use of memory & hardware
sounds legit for a Mc Hipster
▶ No.1041119
>>1041113
>I will never understand
nigger confirmed
▶ No.1041120>>1041123
>>1041091
>I wrote it just now in 15 minutes
It shows. It looks like something someone made by dragging controls around in the Visual Basic form editor.
>Intuitive UI is easy to create
And yet the UI you created has no quick jumps and there's a non-nil chance that the tab order is fucked. UI (and even CLI) is hard. If you think it's easy, you're barely scraping the surface.
▶ No.1041121>>1041124
>>1041118
>implying that we have made backward strides in creating resource-efficient frameworks and toolkits
>implying that the average computer doesn't have at least 8-16 gigs of RAM
>implying that auto-generating your own UI will consume all your RAM and burn up your CPU
▶ No.1041123>>1041126 >>1041130
>>1041120
>It shows. It looks like something someone made by dragging controls around in the Visual Basic form editor.
It was a proof-of-concept. It wasn't meant to look polished, but even what I slapped together is better than no UI at all. And as far as the look of it, I could have done some math to center the labels vertically with the controls and also have some uniform spacing between labels and controls.
>And yet the UI you created has no quick jumps and there's a non-nil chance that the tab order is fucked.
Define "quick jump". And the tab and control order would be defined in a class or metadata file. In my case, the properties exist in the class in the order I want them to be on the form. The tabs would work the same way since they would be a sort of parent node that contains child controls.
>>1041120
>UI (and even CLI) is hard
Only if you're a total brainlet. I would actually argue that CLI is for more difficult because you have to create a parser and an interpreter. UI is fairly easy, especially if you auto-generate it like I did above. And we're not talking about web-based UI where you have to manipulate the DOM using Javascript, and this speaks nothing of excessively complex frameworks like Angular.
▶ No.1041124>>1041148
>>1041121
>>implying that the average computer doesn't have at least 8-16 gigs of RAM
>implying that the average computer needs at least 8-16 gigs of RAM
lel. this goy
Some people use computers that neither have nor need a graphical environment. There is no use for creation of a GUI interface. If a nigger needs one then it can #learntocode and make one, otherwise RTFM and STFU.
>OP: Everyone should wear brown shoes because CY. Am I rite guyz?
<Anon: No you're a ni/g/ger
>OP: No one needs to wear other footwear do they? It's CY after all.
<Anon: /g/o and don't come back ni/g/ger
▶ No.1041125
As a complete moron who doesn't know how to code, there is zero problem with using command lines, it's almost always a faster GUI that you need to spend a day or two on before making the best use of it and I have no idea why people keep bitching about it. It's exactly like Netlisting in Spice, it's actually very easy once you sit down for an hour and realize what it is.
▶ No.1041126>>1041146
>OP: Eat my UI
<Anon: No, because it's shit
>>1041123
>It was a proof-of-concept. It wasn't meant to look polished, but even what I slapped together is better than no UI at all.
>OP: Hurr durr I know it's shit. It wasn't meant to be eaten, but eating shit is better than not eating isn't it?
In your world OP, people always use graphical environments with pointing devices, touch screens, and candy colored interfaces. For others not in your world graphical environments are largely a distraction and a waste of effort.
▶ No.1041127
>Windows
>Doesn't like the command line
see video:
>>939780
▶ No.1041130>>1041131 >>1041133 >>1041143
>>1041123
>what I slapped together is better than no UI at all
Your UI does nothing. It's the CLI equivalent of running : in sh which certainly does not take 15 minutes to do.
>Define "quick jump"
See attached.
>the tab and control order would be defined in a class or metadata file
Irrelevant. I'm saying that your "quick and easy UI" is incomplete and untested.
>[UI (and even CLI) is hard] Only if you're a total brainlet
You clearly misunderstand the discipline. Creating humanly-usable UIs means understanding tons of heuristics, metaphors and other elements and means respecting a large number of global and per-platform conventions, and sometimes discriminating between them. Your view of UI design is shallow and people like you are the reason why so many interfaces are slow or useless.
>UI is fairly easy, especially if you auto-generate it like I did above
You auto-generated nothing. You don't even know what you did. You're playing with Legos.
▶ No.1041131
▶ No.1041132
As a cripple man I can't use a mouse so I hate GUIs because they remind me of my spasticness. To compensate for this I claim all UIs are for niggers even though I need door and stair UIs to be specially created for me.
▶ No.1041133>>1041137 >>1041147
OP I figured it out in < 5 min from those docs (soon had an idea and then the examples confirmed it). I won't argue that CLI can be a kind of hell when every program has its own little DSL of options that was made ad-hoc by some guy with no particular talent for interfaces. But maybe you should try a little harder, you know? Learn to sit still and read documentation.
>>1041130
This. And bad CLI is still better than bad GUI, because once you figure out the CLI you can do it quickly or automate it.
▶ No.1041137>>1041138 >>1041139
>>1041133
>my time is worthless
Couldn't have said it better myself. My machine is my hobby.
I spend hours just reading about use flags because I'm such a nerd XD
▶ No.1041138
▶ No.1041139
>>1041137
Enjoy that flat expertise/time curve on your GUI you fucking nigger.
▶ No.1041140>>1041141 >>1041412
One evening, Master Foo and Nubi attended a gathering of programmers who had met to learn from each other. One of the programmers asked Nubi to what school he and his master belonged. Upon being told they were followers of the Great Way of Unix, the programmer grew scornful.
“The command-line tools of Unix are crude and backward,” he scoffed. “Modern, properly designed operating systems do everything through a graphical user interface.”
Master Foo said nothing, but pointed at the moon. A nearby dog began to bark at the master's hand.
“I don't understand you!” said the programmer.
Master Foo remained silent, and pointed at an image of the Buddha. Then he pointed at a window.
“What are you trying to tell me?” asked the programmer.
Master Foo pointed at the programmer's head. Then he pointed at a rock.
“Why can't you make yourself clear?” demanded the programmer.
Master Foo frowned thoughtfully, tapped the programmer twice on the nose, and dropped him in a nearby trashcan.
As the programmer was attempting to extricate himself from the garbage, the dog wandered over and piddled on him.
At that moment, the programmer achieved enlightenment.
▶ No.1041141
▶ No.1041143>>1041158
>>1041130
>Your UI does nothing. It's the CLI equivalent of running : in sh which certainly does not take 15 minutes to do.
My UI is proof of concept. If you can auto-generate a UI like I did then you can scrub the form and convert the inputs to JSON to pass to a web service or a flat command line string to pass to an exe.
>>Define "quick jump"
>See attached.
Are you trying to say "keyboard shortcut"? Either way, why are you complaining that my UI doesn't have keyboard shortcuts when your CLI doesn't either? It would not be difficult to implement shortcuts. I didn't do that because it's just proof of concept. Keyboard shortcuts do not make or break a UI, just make it a bit more navigable for power users.
>>1041130
>Creating humanly-usable UIs means something something faux-intellectual babble something
You're a fucking idiot. For a simple UI, you can auto-generate a form and then generate an input string without all of the excessive complexity you just regurgitated. I do it all the time at my job. Business users are amazed by my turn-around time because every form I create is auto-generated from the classes while the other developers in my department hardcode all of the bindings line by line. All I do is configure some property interdependencies and validation requirements and the rest is done.
CLI is no different. All you're doing is passing inputs as a command line string. Instead of the user typing out the raw inputs by hand, a UI will convert the form inputs into the command line string. It's no different than any other CLI wrapper that exists out there. A command line string from my UI would look something like:
>faggot.exe -isafaggot:1 -dateofgayness:2019-03-13
It's so simple, but it's also no surprise that the people on /tech/ have the inability to see things in simple terms. This doesn't mean you're smart. It just means your brain is a fucking mess and the only way to perform a simple task is to jump through every hoop imaginable.
▶ No.1041144>>1041146 >>1041147 >>1041148 >>1041151 >>1041190 >>1041250 >>1041372
Trying to explain to a /tech/ fag that you can create a UI on top of your CLI and still be able to use your CLI as a standalone program is like trying to explain the difference between legal and illegal immigration to leftists. It simply cannot be done.
▶ No.1041146
>>1041126
>In your world OP, people always use graphical environments with pointing devices, touch screens, and candy colored interfaces. For others not in your world graphical environments are largely a distraction and a waste of effort.
See:
>>1041144
▶ No.1041147
>>1041133
>This. And bad CLI is still better than bad GUI, because once you figure out the CLI you can do it quickly or automate it.
You don't give developers enough credit by assuming they're automatically going to create a shitty UI.
Also this:
>>1041144
▶ No.1041148
>>1041124
>Some people use computers that neither have nor need a graphical environment.
See:
>>1041144
▶ No.1041149>>1041150
>why do programs that operate strictly via command line exist in the current year?
why do programs exist?
>anyone with at least two brain cells to rub together can create even the most rudimentary UI
If everyone can do it, maybe there's a reason why they don't... why do programs exist?
>This beef comes from me trying to figure out how to use exiftool.exe
These days, anyone with at least two brain cells to rub together can read the fucking manual.
>I have since figured it out
Anyone with at least two brain cells to rub together can read the fucking manual. You did it! Congrats OP.
>Just make a fucking UI
You cannot convince me that all of that is completely necessary.
>So now I have to scour a list of wrappers and download/install/use multiple ones before I find the one I want to use that also fucking WORKS.
Anyone with at least two brain cells to rub together can create even the most rudimentary UI, and anyone with at least two brain cells to rub together can read the fucking manual. Why don't you do it? Just make a fucking UI.
▶ No.1041150>>1041152
>>1041149
>look at me i can refute someone's argument by saying the exact opposite of everything they say
▶ No.1041151>>1041153
>>1041144
>becomes super bloated and requires passing in gay data to a stream socket and all this retarded unix weenie shit otherwise it becomes too unbearable or even worse retards make web/electron bloated UIs and btfos your holy intended gooey
it's not that simple
▶ No.1041152>>1041154
>>1041150
"argument"? That's what you call that?
>This beef
>saying the exact opposite of everything they say
So you did NOT manage to read the manual? Sad.
▶ No.1041153
>>1041151
>gay data to a stream socket
Do you also have to reinitialize the flux capacitor? ffs, all you do is iterate through all the controls in the form and build a command line string from the user input.
How is that difficult at all?
>becomes super bloated
HOW? The UI and CLI are two separate things. The UI is just a wrapper around the CLI. You can still use the CLI by itself. Holy shit.
▶ No.1041154
>>1041152
Yes, I did read the manual, hence this:
>>1041066 (OP)
>I have since figured it out
▶ No.1041158>>1041189
>>1041143
>>Creating humanly-usable UIs means something something faux-intellectual babble something
I can guarantee you've never shipped anything serious if this is how you treat usability.
▶ No.1041160
>>1041066 (OP)
>> what's a computer *drinks soymilk
▶ No.1041161
>>1041066 (OP)
>Seriously, why do programs that operate strictly via command line exist in the current year?
Seriously, what is SSH and remote login? The level of ignorance in this post is just astounding.
▶ No.1041177>>1041195
go back to play on your iPad Zoomer, this is no place for you.
▶ No.1041178
>>1041070
>having to write a script
>having
>>>/apple/
▶ No.1041185>>1041190 >>1041208 >>1041412
>>1041066 (OP)
just take my nice clean CLI code and
FUCK IT ALL UP WITH GTK / QT BLOAT CODE INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE CODE BASE BY 10 TIMES
JUMP OFF A TALL BUILDING OP
▶ No.1041187
>>1041066 (OP)
some things are just easier to use there.
▶ No.1041188>>1041191
This guy reminds me of the mouth breathers that will use RDP/VNC to remotely connect to a system with the objective of restarting it.
Ever heard of something called overhead?
▶ No.1041189
>>1041158
>I can guarantee you've never shipped anything serious if this is how you treat usability.
Assuming you're the anon I replied to, I didn't disagree with your point on UI. However, you were applying high level disciplines to a very simple concept. It's just a CLI. Creating a UI that generates a flat input string to be passed into it is something an absolute brainlet can handle.
▶ No.1041190
>>1041185
>BLOAT CODE INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE CODE BASE BY 10 TIMES
Jesus fucking christ how many times do I have to quote this post:
>>1041144
▶ No.1041191
>>1041188
>Ever heard of something called overhead?
Yes. What about it?
▶ No.1041192>>1041194
Hey guyz, let's put a GUI desktop on this remote satellite and connect to it via RDP.
Oh yeah, what's a computer?
▶ No.1041193>>1041194
Hey guyz, let's put a GUI desktop on this remote satellite and connect to it via RDP.
Oh yeah, what's a computer?
▶ No.1041194>>1041202 >>1041204
>>1041193
>>1041192
>putting a GUI on one thing means you have to put it on all the things
▶ No.1041195
>>1041177
go back to play on your VT100 Boomer, this is no place for you.
▶ No.1041196>>1041205 >>1041279 >>1041287
/tech/ fags still cling on to the old days where they were gods among their friends and family because they knew how to type DIR /AD at a DOS prompt. Now that the world has moved on toward GUIs, the /tech/ fags twitch feverishly at the mere notion that they're no longer necessary or important at all. Their knuckles turn white as they clutch tightly on their CLIs as they ask themselves if now is truly the time for them to kys.
▶ No.1041202>>1041204 >>1041206
>>1041194
"Seriously, why do programs that operate strictly via command line exist in the current year? These days, anyone with at least two brain cells to rub together can create even the most rudimentary UI consisting of checkboxes, dropdown lists, and text boxes. In the time it takes you to write an insanely-long documentation that explains every single command line and its proper syntax, you could create a UI that is intuitive and self-explanatory."
OP proceeds to make a program with a check box for every operation that can be performed on the remote system. Then all of a sudden, he realizes that he may need to run more than one operation and in an arbitrary order. He decides to take the easy route and create a new GUI program that uses the MSBrainlet protocol for remote operation. The program resource usage is 700MiB of storage space, 2GiB of RAM, a hardware accelerated graphics card, constant 100Mb network connection...
▶ No.1041204>>1041211
>>1041202
I have never written this kind of program, so I cannot answer to this, but why are you fags clinging to this "remote operation" bit like it's your security blanket?
See this:
>>1041194
If a GUI isn't called for, don't use a GUI. If we're just fucking talking about goddamn removing EXIF from a JPG...
THEN WHY THE FUCK NOT?
▶ No.1041205
>>1041196
Zoomer fails to realize that the Internet doesn't actually run on his smartphone.
Proceeds to feverishly look for an app icon for "Internet".
▶ No.1041206
▶ No.1041208
>>1041185
If you are so concerned about bloat maybe you should stop eating so much.
▶ No.1041211>>1041273
>>1041204
Why the hell would you want a stand-alone GUI for a program to remove EXIF from an image. That sounds like something you'd be better off incorporating into an existing program as an option. Or you could make a simple CLI program interface that can be used with more complex file filtering.
exiftool -r OPsMidgetPorn??B.??G
Oh shit, we need the nu-think stand-alone GUI so self satisfaction can be achieved through holding down the shift button and individually clicking on each image icon (but not the wrong ones). After 15 minutes of that, you can then finally rub your hands together and right click the "Erase EXIF Data" button. Progress feels good. Oh, and what's a computer?
▶ No.1041241
>>1041091
Op failed to pre-select the IsAFaggot box.
▶ No.1041250
>>1041144
>spics coming in is OK if theyre legal
Absolute state of christian mutt conservatards
▶ No.1041273
>>1041211
a gui is easier to use than the undocumented magic thing that is regex. no one knows fully how it works so they just put random symbols there until it somehow works.
▶ No.1041277>>1041309 >>1041359
they would probably look like this if someone started making guis for cli programs
▶ No.1041279>>1041283 >>1041309 >>1041368
>>1041091
#!/bin/bash
while getopts "hfg:d:" opt; do
case "$opt" in
h) echo "usage $0 [-f] -g GAYNESS -d DATE"; exit 1;;
f) ISFAGGOT=y;;
g) GAYNESS=$OPTARG;;
d) DATE=$OPTARG;;
esac
done
>I wrote it in 15 minutes
This took me 3. Now imagine trying to implement the gcc command line options in a gui, keeping it
>intuitive and self-explanatory
You'd be shit fucked, and every time you went to change things people would get pissed at you for breaking their workflow. The gcc people have never worried about adding a flag, because it sits neatly alongside the old ones without disturbing them. Actually try doing that OP, write a gui that ouputs a command line for gcc, or any other non-trivial program. I wonder how far you'll get before realizing that guis are idiotic outside of the most basic tasks.
>>1041196
>GUIs are SO intuitive
real story: my dad asks me how to use an alternate drive with iphoto. I tell him I have no fucking clue. He says he thought he could hold shift while clicking some button. I tell him to hold option instead. This works, naturally.
I am in no fear of normalniggers figuring out tech. The problem UI designers fight every day is "how do I turn a CLI into a GUI". 90% of the time they do this by stripping out everything but the most simple things. Apple figured out that they can hide some of the more complicated items behind the option key, but even this has a limit.
visual story:
$ vlc --help | wc -l
397
$ vlc --longhelp | wc -l
1698
$ vlc --full-help | wc -l
5820
$ # help for all the modules
$ vlc --list-verbose | sed -e '/ c \| s /d' -e 's/^ \(\w\+\).*/\1/' | while read name; do vlc -p $name; done | wc -l
4320
$ vlc --list-verbose | sed -e '/ c \| s /d' -e 's/^ \(\w\+\).*/\1/' | while read name; do vlc --advanced -p $name; done | wc -l
7782
$ echo total help = $((5820 + 7782)) lines
total help = 13602 lines
That help is wall to wall options. Try stuffing that behind the option key OP.
▶ No.1041283>>1041284
>>1041279
If you want to know how to do something why don't you just RTFM.
▶ No.1041284>>1041286
>>1041283
What did I want to know how to do?
▶ No.1041286>>1041289
>>1041284
>my dad asks me how to use an alternate drive with iphoto
▶ No.1041287>>1041769
>>1041196
I use CLI every day, but using DOS is fucking awful.
▶ No.1041289
>>1041286
Why didn't he RTFM you mean? Normal people don't make a habit of looking at man pages, or googling things, or otherwise fixing problems for themselves. I am fortunate in that my knuckles will stay full of color until the ends of my days.
▶ No.1041295>>1059063
>>1041066 (OP)
CLIs are more of a "hipster" side of tech but it still has its advantages on really small cases like remote/server application management but doubt these hipsters even do something productive as that other than fixation to eyecandy 'matrix' ascii art hipster bullshit.
Imagine having to manage music tags or image exif.
You can't do paint/render graphics tasks or file management/tagging without GUI.
CLI lists are mostly inferior on modern use, you can't even quickly search and filter results as you type them in.
GUI firewall is superior if you want to see what's happening (like breaches) in realtime and interact with it immediately with one click. With CLI you won't easily get an idea of what's happening or even get graphical representation of data or even copy that result (ctrl shift c, lol), or a realtime notification of something important.
CLI is for doing batch and background process shit like servers or botnets you want to hide from the unsuspecting.
exif tool CLI is okay since it's meant to be used in image batches but most of the time it's a waste to learn how to use these - maybe if your time has no worth like the classic nix/gnu+linux user.
>>1041091
>dotnet meme
>win7
Pajeet sophomore detected.
15 minutes = fail the 10min test this friday.
VC++ is infected with telemetry and also compiling with the 'windows update patches' for VS will insert an even better tracker into your programs (aimed for malware makers for the LEA/forensic).
▶ No.1041297
>>1041066 (OP)
> In the time it takes you to write an insanely-long documentation that explains every single command line and its proper syntax, you could create a UI that is intuitive and self-explanatory.
Every language I use has packages will allow for generating commandline usage statements automatically, even when options are complex and nested, or separated by command type.
▶ No.1041309
>>1041279
>muh crazy GUI options
And yet it's impossible to use nearly all CLI programs without reading the manual. Amazing eh. Your dumb dad pressed the wrong button yet you have to read the fucking manual to even use it for trivial stuff.
>hmm -f would that be a filename no wait it's force no wait man faggot oh no man page faggot -h
This is your gay ass life. Meanwhile dad tard is pressing buttons.
>>1041277
>No directories
>what the fuck is that???
>(-nd)
>ahh yes makes perfect sense thank you gnutards
▶ No.1041359
>>1041277
This looks nice. Busy, but necessarily so and very straightforward. One could argue that it's too cluttered with options, but I could argue counter that it just needs to be better organized. A tab named "Standard" really isn't very descriptive.
All in all, though, I think this UI is worth the effort to develop, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if this were a third-party CLI wrapper.
▶ No.1041361>>1041372
Because I can type faster than I can navigate a cluttered UI.
▶ No.1041368>>1041722
>>1041279
>This took me 3. Now imagine trying to implement the gcc command line options in a gui, keeping it
The amount of time you can take with a script vs. the amount of time it takes me to write code to auto-generate a UI is irrelevant to this discussion. It is about the time you save the end user. It will also allow your utilities to reach a wider base, allowing you to gain more recognition as a developer. I do not understand why script kiddies and CLI fags like to remain in the dark underground. It's like they think it's cool that filthy casuals can't use their shit. I just makes them the incels of the software world.
>The gcc people have never worried about adding a flag, because it sits neatly alongside the old ones without disturbing them.
Adding a new flag/field to a GUI does NOT break workflow unless you just slap it in there in a random place. You act as if no program relying on a GUI has ever, in the history of software, undergone an update that resulted in new checkboxes or dropdown lists being added to a GUI. What argument are you even making?
>Actually try doing that OP, write a gui that ouputs a command line for gcc, or any other non-trivial program. I wonder how far you'll get before realizing that guis are idiotic outside of the most basic tasks.
It's almost as if you've never written anything that outputs form data to JSON or a flat file. Do I have to create a sample form like I did above and show you how clicking a button can collect the user inputs and output it to JSON or a flat command-line string? Give me any format and I will give you that output.
>That help is wall to wall options. Try stuffing that behind the option key OP.
Easy. Your help file is actually XML or JSON with a key/description for each field. You will have a utility (easy to write in a few lines of code) that will convert that to a flat file for easy viewing in a text editor. You can then use it in your UI to look up field descriptions by field name for use in a mouseover tooltip or, if the UI is small enough, just display it right below the control itself.
{
isFaggot: {
desc: "Determines whether or not OP is a faggot. Always true."
},
gayNessLevel: {
desc: "Numeric value to determine the level of gayness. Always maximum value allowed."
},
gaynessDate: {
desc: "The date and time that OP achieved gayness. Always the date/time of thread."
}
}
Seriously, you script kiddies are brainlet-tier plebs if you can't wrap your tiny heads around these very simple concepts.
▶ No.1041372
>>1041361
>Because I can type faster than I can navigate a cluttered UI.
The don't use a fucking GUI. Read this, dipshit:
>>1041144
▶ No.1041392
why is cli wrapper gui a thing in the FOSS world when you can very easily turn the cli into an API and shared object / dll?
even with a tardlang like python or java FFI is dead simple.
To make a cli wrapper reliable stdout & stderr need to have a consistant syntax, which never happens, parsing is usually some dogshit adhoc glued together with PCRE.
UNIX is the operating system of undless unnesecary parsing.
▶ No.1041412>>1041414 >>1041731
>>1041066 (OP)
The right way to do it is with a library that exposes an API that can be used with any interface you want. Dynamic linking was a late addition to UNIX, so they still don't fully understand libraries and the difference between linking code and copying and pasting.
>>1041140
The real enlightenment is discovering that the UNIX "shell" is just a shitty programming language.
>>1041185
GUIs also suck on UNIX. On a real OS, a basic GUI program would be a few kilobytes. Improvements in operating system design used to lead to smaller code. That was the whole point of an OS and OS research. Whenever something is "improved" on UNIX, everything gets bigger. It doesn't make sense to have to write more code just so every user has to write more code, but if UNIX weenies did things that made sense, UNIX wouldn't be UNIX.
Subject: The Decline And Fall Of Western Civilization
These stupid shit-for-brains weenix unie "programmers" have
managed to break that mainstay of Western enlightenment and
education, the dictionary. And I'll bet they excuse their
behavior by saying, "Well, it's all Greek to me"!
I suppose it's only appropriate that the invading hordes
scraped the librarian at Alexandria to death with shells.
They must have had a premonition that UNIX was coming.
▶ No.1041414>>1041415
>>1041412
>On a real OS, a basic GUI program would be a few kilobytes.
can you provide an example of an OS where a basic GUI program is only a few kilobytes and the code is minimal?
▶ No.1041415>>1041417
>>1041414
Can someone explain to me why there's so much concern over GUI file size in the current year where storage space is barely anything to worry about? I bet you anything that a JPG taken on your phone is 10x larger than a simple GUI. Remember, the GUI is just the frontend that does nothing more than accept user input and then deliver that input to the backend or, if it's a wrapper, generate a command-line string that's passed to the exe.
▶ No.1041417>>1041442
>>1041415
it's not the size of the file, it's the number of lines of code you have to add to deal with a gui, it adds a bunch of unnecessary complexity and depending on what your doing it turns 3/4 of your code into GUI code instead of doing whatever it is it's doing.
consider most CLI programs are sequential, there is a simple start to finish
take arguments -> do work -> return results
with GUI code it's n o longer sequential, the entire thing must redesigned to accommodate and event/response system / loop.
instead of the above, it becomes
initialize gui -> wait for event -> respond to event -> do work ( but do it in a thread to make sure you don't lock the gui; even more unnecessary complexity) -> fill GUI with response, wait for another event
not to mention having to deal with retards sending multiple events at once, you have to deal with that.
what if retard clicks your long running "do work" button 50 times before it finishes the first one? are you going to launch 50 threads at once? no you have to detect it and prevent it, resulting in even more unnecessary code
▶ No.1041442
>>1041417
>it's the number of lines of code
Guess how many it takes for you to read this reply.
▶ No.1041465>>1041731
>>1041066 (OP)
>Seriously, why do programs that operate strictly via command line exist in the current year?
because UNIX brain damage. literally no other reason.
>Just make a fucking UI.
we can't do this either because the OS and UI toolkits are filled with UNIX brain damage
▶ No.1041498
>>1041066 (OP)
OP create an interface that will make a system call based on textboxes and initiated by a button that will make system calls then use std out to populate a label in the form application. This isn't super difficult. It's just most people who use command line applications don't really give a shit about GUIs.
▶ No.1041499>>1041500 >>1041518 >>1041586 >>1041722
Why not create a generic CLI->GUI tool that reads from a config to create a gui with options for running a specific program? You can then create a database of these configs and make a tool to auto-generate configs according to man pages. And at that point you'd be able to use any CLI program you want to without requiring a separate GUI to be made for every single program.
You win because you get GUI for any arbitrary program, the devs of arbitrary programs win because they don't have to make a GUI component, and I win because I helped you win. Win-win-win.
▶ No.1041500>>1041518
>>1041499
This is actually not a bad idea.
Parses all of the man pages and --helps and creates configuration database.
▶ No.1041586>>1041609
>>1041499
Think I heard that in the newer Windows, some of the GUI configuration menus are just that. They are GUI wrappers for the what can be done trough Powershell.
▶ No.1041609
>>1041586
They have been for a long time. They set registry values.
▶ No.1041722
>>1041499
Holy shit this is basically what I said in these posts:
>>1041066 (OP)
>At the very least, create a switch metadata file that provides 1) the data type required for each switch (string, number, date, boolean, etc) and 2) any dependencies and interdependencies between switches that others can use to auto-generate their UIs. This way, you can make changes to your metadata file and everyone else's UI would update automatically if they were smart enough to leverage it.
>>1041368
>Easy. Your help file is actually XML or JSON with a key/description for each field. You will have a utility (easy to write in a few lines of code) that will convert that to a flat file for easy viewing in a text editor. You can then use it in your UI to look up field descriptions by field name for use in a mouseover tooltip or, if the UI is small enough, just display it right below the control itself.
▶ No.1041731
▶ No.1041737
>>1041070
Who will write it, if not me?
▶ No.1041739
>>1041091
Is this bait? That looks like ass. Very amateur.
▶ No.1041769
▶ No.1041841>>1041844
>>1041066 (OP)
>This beef comes from me trying to figure out how to use exiftool.exe to remove all tags from an image EXCEPT for the orientation tag.
So you're retarded and came here to complain abour your retardation.
This is a blogpost. How do I unsubscribe?
▶ No.1041844
>>1041841
>This is a blogpost. How do I unsubscribe?
Click the little triangle thingy at the top of the post.
▶ No.1058053
>>1041070
macOS has a point-and-click scripting utility. My girlfriend figured it out once. Very estrogen-friendly; might fit your requirements.
Take two hours to read through bash.info and stop shitting up the board with butthurt blogging.
▶ No.1058279
>>1041070
>I'm just pretending to be retarded.
▶ No.1058300
>>1041066 (OP)
People are too incompetent to design decent UIs. Especially GUIs, of course. Microsoft used to be able to do it, but look at them now. Also, ignore every post here except mine, they are all wrong and retarded. Just people that don't use computers for anything saying dumb shit. I haven't read the thread, but chances are only I'm right, since everyone else is stupider than fuck.
The terminal can be better sometimes, but it depends on the situation. Same thing for mouse and keyboard. Some things are faster with a keyboard, and some are faster with the mouse. You want both. GUIs in particular should be usable with both, and should be designed in a way that naturally kinda teaches the user how to do things more efficiently. Put shortcuts in their face and they will use it eventually if they remember it, hopefully. But of course, you get none of that, because everything is designed for touchscreens, and touchscreens are a fucking abomination. Outdated technology that simply can't work well (except maybe with a pen, but it's still inferior to actual buttons), ruining absolutely everything. Now everything is made basically for greasy human fingers, that are horrible cursors.
▶ No.1058559
>>1041066 (OP)
>Seriously, why do programs that operate strictly via command line exist in the current year?
To filter out the brainlets who can't into learning
▶ No.1058700>>1058721
I really enjoy some command line programs that have a really good help menus etc but some are just a pain in the ass.
Do you want to encode this simple video so you can post it as a webm?
Fuck you, read the what each command does for 2 hours, and then you'll have to learn which obscure choices are better for your case.
Thanks, fmmpeg. XMedia Recode did it right, too bad there's no Linux port.
▶ No.1058718
>>1041066 (OP)
The last time I used exiftool, I had batch encoded some TV shows and wanted to output file name and video length to text so I could be sure they were ripped properly. It would be rather complicated to make a GUI for doing this. It's rather simple and straightforward using find to recursively locate the videos, exiftool for grabbing the data, and bash to redirect output to text file. The problem is one dimensional to you, so you will only ever understand one dimension.
▶ No.1058721>>1058726 >>1058776
>>1058700
Two hours it takes to figure this out.
ffmpeg -i in.xyz out.webm
▶ No.1058726>>1058732 >>1058749 >>1058776
>>1058721
but does it just work like that? many sites have only very specific things allowed so just randomly converting something to webm wont work. like 4chan as example. its almost impossible to make a webm that you can post there if you dont know the secret ffmpeg parameter combination that no one ever tells to the user even if only some specific format is allowed.
▶ No.1058732
>>1058726
Pro tip:
-download webm already on the site you want to post to
ffprobe downloaded.webm
-read details of the file audio & video encoding settings
-use same settings when encoding your webm
-upload your webm to site
-profit?
▶ No.1058749>>1058752
>>1058726
>many sites
>like 4chan
Stop pretending like this is an issue anywhere but 4chan. VP9 and Opus are not supported. File sizes must be 4-3 MB depending on board. Videos may or may not be allowed to contain audio depending on board. It's only 4chan. Time to kiss that shitstain of a site goodbye.
▶ No.1058752
>>1058749
I forgot about the 300 second time limit too. There's no reason to jump through all of those hoops.
▶ No.1058756
>>1041518
I've never used emacs. How does it do this?
▶ No.1058776>>1058825
>>1058721
Come on now, you know that there's way more stuff than just this.
Reference points, cpu cores, vp9, vp8, bitrate, changing res, variable bitrate, video threads or something like that, etc.
I'm talking about encoding, you're just converting.
And I'm not this cuckchan retard >>1058726 .
▶ No.1058797
>>1041091
Sounds like you're a PeopleSoft developer.
▶ No.1058825
>>1058776
>Come on now, you know that there's way more stuff than just this.
True, but you don't need to know it unless you're on halfchan.
>I'm talking about encoding, you're just converting.
-c:v copy -c:a copy would be converting
That simple line would take .xyz format and use default webm encode options which would work fine on every other chan. Since default webm settings use VP9 and Opus, the webm would be incompatible on 4shit.
▶ No.1058879>>1058993
You're a nigger. Fuck you. Get the fuck out.
▶ No.1058929
▶ No.1058993>>1059044
>>1058879
Funny, that Terry said that, while he was using Ubuntu. Probably he's a nigga himself.
▶ No.1059043
>>1041087
What keyboard is that?
▶ No.1059044
>>1058993
Wash your mouth before you call Terry a nigga ever again, you filthy swine.
Preferring a CLI doesn't mean you can't or won't use a GUI.
▶ No.1059063
>>1041295
>GUI firewall is superior if you want to see what's happening (like breaches) in realtime and interact with it immediately with one click. With CLI you won't easily get an idea of what's happening or even get graphical representation of data or even copy that result (ctrl shift c, lol), or a realtime notification of something important.
>CLI is for doing batch and background process shit like servers
This whole post just screams that you've never had to administer a system. You write a script to watch the fucking firewall and email you if shit goes wrong, then you can open batman vision, to see shit's fucked, visually.
>You can't do paint/render graphics tasks or file management/tagging without GUI.
There are programs for doing all of that on the command line.
>but most of the time it's a waste to learn how to use these - maybe if your time has no worth like the classic nix/gnu+linux user
It's worth learning how to automate your computer, if you use it a lot, otherwise it's just a browser with storage.
The point of command line tools is the ability to script them, which is important for system administration. It's also usually faster, I haven't found a graphical network manager that connects to wifi faster than just running a script that direct connects me to a network I know.
▶ No.1059065
i think one of the main reasons is that unix and programming languages are built to use command lines by default.
that's why i dont make command line part of my programming language :^)
▶ No.1059150
>>1041066 (OP)
> Just pamper me with cum in my eyes WAHHHHHHHHHH
Into the bin, you and your post
▶ No.1059160
Because CLIs are the operating systems of the white man