/tech/ - Technology★

having a WYSIYG editor with plugins was sort of revolutionary at the time for a non-paid service, and a lot of people sort of stuck with it instead of using newer tools

seriously though it's for mommy-bloggers who don't code

>>1020146 (OP)

Give me an alternative that's not shit. There isn't one.

>>1020148

Html+css?

>>1020151

Also dreamweaver

>>1020150

"Do it by hand/yourself" is a shit alternative

>>1020156

Not it's the best way and it was designed to be written by hand.

>>1020151

Microsoft Expression Web even has support for (you)r disabilities.

So even you can use it! It's free too.

if you have a good workflow putting together static HTML sites, it's no more difficult or inflexible. It will also reduce the attack surface for your webserver. There are tons of tools for that. (google jekyll, for example) The bigger problem is that most people don't have anything interesting to say and therefore need the fancy design such platforms offer. The most dense information content and the most interesting websites I visit still have simple black-on-white static html pages.

>>1020159

>The bigger problem is that most people don't have anything interesting to say

This.

Then they insert huge font files into their site, make the line-height huge, the max-width tiny, everything centered and the font big to pretend they actually wrote something.

Instead every anons shitpost is longer than the content of the page.

If you copy paste a newsarticle from an online newspaper into an editor and compare it to some greentext, you'll immediately see that there is no article.

Just 5 sentenses stretched over 5 times your screen height because muh CSS.

The main thing i dont like about wordress is that it doesnt give me access to the html and wont allow me to easily resize things.

Then again i might be a n00b.

I wanted to have a dev blog for gamedev, and wanted to use HTML5 + CSS. Namely, since you can't really break into a site's admin account if there is no account in the first place. That and it's very lightweight in comparison to an overdose of features I'll never really use. Don't care much for comments and feedback as I have other outlets for that.

My only problem is that while I'd gotten some basic pages together, I hadn't quite gotten anything appealing and I would occasionally flub up the text wrapping or other such details for different devices. Anyone got some good resources on doing hand crafted blog posts in this kind of workflow? I don't really need much beyond that. I couldn't find many good sources once I got past baby level of coding.

>>1020152

>dreamweaver

Haha, I had to use that once, what a shitty bloated spaghetti generator. It's almost as bad as MS FrontPage was, if you're old enough and unlucky enough to have used that.

>Be me

>Everyone tells me to use wordpress because its like free advertising with its magic SEO

>Install it for a test

>Get mad because it wont let me set up my site exactly what I want. Just like every other content publishing management bloatware system ive tried

>Every 5 minutes theres a new patch. Or Update. Or vulnerability that I need to know about apparently.

>Disable most features anyway

I will probably just make one page with it as a shameless bait for google search.

>>>/tech/1020151

go be a dumb nigger somwhere else

>>1020168

Honestly, just do the black on white thing the other dude mentioned. Will make your project look 100% more interesting. Too much design on websites just makes me suspicious at this point and think that the people making the site are probably full of shit. Especially true for indie gamdev which is like 99,95% bullshit anyways.

>>1020169

I remember the tables and shudder a bit

>>1020178

I'm definitely going that direction, yeah. I don't want to underdo it, but that's still better than overdoing it and looking gaudy or clustered full of images.

People still pay for WordPress sites, that is the reason it is still around. Wp is just within the skill level of an average office worker, so they can make content edits without paying a developer. If you are coding a personal project, yeah, don't waste time on WP.

>>1020168

Best way for me learning HTML stuff, and a lot of other stuff for that matter, is to do what I can and look up how to do X or how to fix Y whenever I run into something. Then I learn that and incrementally increase my expertise. I suppose once you get to a certain level of proficiency this way you'd be set to get a couple books on the matter and read them and actually get something out of them, even if you only just pick and choose bits to use. Honestly you're probably better than me at this since I just have a little neocities page, but fpr me the most helpful thing is just being really organized. Nowadays I try to put most things into divs and then put divs into larger divs. Maybe a bit convoluted sounding, but it lets you split a page up into blocks and then split blocks up how you like. So I can make good use of the space and change the properties of anu class of divs with a quick CSS change. And little things like being very consistent in design, and having breadcrumbs on every page and maybe even a directory sort of page help keep things very organized. IMO the bane of a small site is being disorganized. When its organized you have a good workspace, just like a desk or office in which you can do good work.

Because it's free, effortless, and you can do practically anything you want except for host adds.

>>1020151

Where's the lie? Also you don't even need CSS, and there is in fact literally nothing wrong with static sites.

>>1020151

Fuck off nigger

>>1020180

The whole point of dreamweaver was to help tame the mess of tables that the complex layouts that era required, in that regard it was fairly decent, in fact it was revolutionary to 13 year old me.

Still probably less cancerous than the absolute state of current 'webdev', thankfully I had my thrill of that early on and went became a real programmer.

>>1020150

Nobody copes with WordPress for personal use, nigga. People use it when they have to make a shitty website to meet a deadline.

>>1020388

>nigga

>>1020150

>>1020148

>>1020156

I actually wrote my own static site generator from scratch in about a week, with no prior experience generating HTML. And yes, this time also includes refactoring and correcting my initial design mistakes. If I had to do it now, I could do it in less than half the time. It takes a bit more work upfront until you see first results, but I feel like I have already save a ton of time for not having to fuck around with an of these weird opaque CMSes.

And I think that's the crux of the issue: with a CMS you can see results very quickly. Click a few buttons and type some shit and you are live already. It is more satisfying in the short-term and makes you feel like you are more productive and making faster progress.

>>1020380

>There's countless of individuals and small businesses who need a website they can put information about their business/event/whatever into, and cannot afford a dedicated developer to make and keep updating it. You can't expect a freelance hair dresser to learn how to make websites nor become a graphic designer, nor expect them to edit plain HTML documents every time they want to post a news article. People specialize because being a master of one thing and cooperating with people who mastered other things > being a jack of all trades but master of none.

That's bullshit. If you are a hairdresser you don't build your own scissors and trimmers, you don't mix your own shampoo, you don't build your own chairs and mirrors. You hire a professional to do it. I am pretty sure the price for a nice-looking static website is negligible compared to the cost for your other equipment. As for updating, if the developer you hire knows his shit he can just stuck a Markdown parser in there, so the hairdresser can write updates and blog posts locally, press a button hand have the web page updated. There is no need to call in a professional every time you want to change the working hours or the phone number on the main page.

>>1020168

> My only problem is that while I'd gotten some basic pages together, I hadn't quite gotten anything appealing and I would occasionally flub up the text wrapping or other such details for different devices. Anyone got some good resources on doing hand crafted blog posts in this kind of workflow? I don't really need much beyond that. I couldn't find many good sources once I got past baby level of coding.

I know he's somewhat of an eceleb and people don't like that, but you might want to take a look at Luke Smith's static site generator.

http://lukesmith.xyz/

https://github.com/LukeSmithxyz/lb

It has barely and features, but it gets the job done. I'd rather browse a barebones website that's good enough, than one that has a million bullshit features where half of them drive me up the wall.

>>1020406

>That's bullshit.

>If you are a hairdresser you don't build your own scissors and trimmers, you don't mix your own shampoo, you don't build your own chairs and mirrors. You hire a professional to do it. I am pretty sure the price for a nice-looking static website is negligible compared to the cost for your other equipment. As for updating, if the developer you hire knows his shit he can just stuck a Markdown parser in there, so the hairdresser can write updates and blog posts locally, press a button hand have the web page updated. There is no need to call in a professional every time you want to change the working hours or the phone number on the main page.

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing. That's exactly what I meant, they can just commission us to make and design and find hosting for the website. And then they can use the wordpress admin panel to post new articles or add new pages, edit the page contents if their phone number changed or they want a new header image or update their gallery or whatever, or in rare cases edit the page templates if they have someone who can do it. Sometimes they want things like a contact form or multiple language support or some other obscure feature, and a plugin will accomplish it effortlessly.

And I don't have to start reverse engineering facebook/instagram/twitter every time they do their monthly API fuck up that requires you to change the script to embed facebook feeds, I can just update the facebook feed plugin. Say what you want about facebook but that's how normalfags communicate and find things, like it or not. Remember that the customer doesn't give a shit how compact and lightning fast and elegant your software is, they only care about the end result and features and how easy it is to use, and if you won't let them have a facebook feed or whatever shit, they'll instead go to someone who will.

If there was a piece of software that did all this better than wordpress, needless to say we'd be using it instead, but there isn't one.

>>1020430

>I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing. That's exactly what I meant, they can just commission us to make and design and find hosting for the website.

This part I agree with.

>And then they can use the wordpress admin panel to post new articles or add new pages, edit the page contents if their phone number changed or they want a new header image or update their gallery or whatever, or in rare cases edit the page templates if they have someone who can do it. Sometimes they want things like a contact form or multiple language support or some other obscure feature, and a plugin will accomplish it effortlessly.

This part I disagree with, you don't need Wordpress. Content can be written in Markdown, which anyone can understand (hand them a cheat sheet to glue next to their monitor if necessary). For building static content and uploading make a small GUI app that has like two or three buttons, or something like that if they don't want to fiddle with the command line.

>>1020464

>Markdown, which anyone can understand

Well this is where you're blatantly wrong, and even if you weren't it's nowhere near as intuitive as the wysiwyg text input field in wordpress. You're literally telling me to give the client an inferior product.

>if they don't want to fiddle with the command line

>even considering the idea of the client touching a command line let alone having an access to one when the hosting is from some cheap web rental thing

And this is where I'm convinced you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

>make a small GUI app

Why? A "simple app" won't cut it for 95% of the things we make, if you'd just stop ignoring all the given reasons why.

>>1020469

Tell your clients their websites suck and I don't wanna use them.

>>1020469

>Well this is where you're blatantly wrong, and even if you weren't it's nowhere near as intuitive as the wysiwyg text input field in wordpress.

Oh come on, we are talking about people who know how to run a business, not retards. Learning how to write Markdown is easier than learning most everyday tasks.

>You're literally telling me to give the client an inferior product.

I would consider something slow and bloated to be inferior. With Markdown you can choose whatever editor you want, anything from the current fancy Electron GUI shit to ed over a remote terminal. If your customer already has an editor he likes (even if it's just Notepad) he can just use that.

>Why? A "simple app" won't cut it for 95% of the things we make, if you'd just stop ignoring all the given reasons why.

I don't know what kind of high-end luxury hairdressers you are serving, but for most hairdressers saying "Write your blog post in this format, save it in this folder and press this button" seems like it would be just fine. I mean, when I look up a hairdresser's web page I don't see anything that couldn't be coded by hand even.

WordPress is awesome, its GPLv2 and mandate the same license for all plugins/themes, developers that disrespect the rule are blocked from official events

If you want to make blog or a business website its more then enough

The only annoying thing is that the platform became popular, a lot of "free" plugins/themes with limited functions pushing for a PRO version on every corner, to find true free as in free beer resources became a hassle, but there is still a lot of people contributing to the platform

Also, I like the new editor, the page builders were all shitty, adding tons of megabytes to the memory

I don't know, I don't know why people feel the need to use anything else other than pure html+css for their web publishing stuff. I mean I kinda get it if you have a shared blog or something where several people need to send articles to the same blog but just for simple personal blogs it seems like using bloat just for the sake of using bloat.

>>1021200

>developers that disrespect the rules are blocked from official events

is this considered a terrible punishment?

>>1020920

>>1020470

freetards not understanding that user demands may differ from their own, what a surprise.

I sure wonder why the field is full of narcissists that fork at every opportunity but seldom merge efforts.

>>1020920

>Oh come on, we are talking about people who know how to run a business, not retards.

People who run businesses can also have huge egos. They'll refuse to do basic tasks if they feel like they don't or shouldn't have to. They'll even refuse to do things like capitalize or use punctuation in emails.

>Learning how to write Markdown is easier than learning most everyday tasks.

This is true, but they don't really care. It's about ego for them, if it wasn't their idea, it sucks.

>>1020156

t. 5yo

>>1021246

What else did you want them to?

To come against them with lawyers would be expensive and give the platform a bad look

>>1020146 (OP) Using WordPress makes building websites easy for web developers. So novice web programmers love WordPress!

>>1022514

I think you can get money from the Software Freedom Conservancy to litigate these sorts of lawsuits. As for the damage to their platform, they probably do as much damage by using a GPL license instead of MIT, so if they don't enforce it I don't see why they bother with the license. Stallman likes to say that letting other share your work as proprietary is damaging to the freedom of your users, so not enforcing the GPL must be damaging in this sense.