/sw/ - Star Wars★

>>9486 (OP)

Can I just be like Kyle Katarn and use the force to scratch my ass? People say Kyle was a “Gray Jedi” but he never fully thought of the force as this perpetual be all thing. He specifically says to use the force as a tool and not to use it in vain.

Some anon here made an excellent point when it came down to using the force. A Jedi could use force lighting to kick start a villages generator and restore power. While a Sith could use animal friendship to make an animal attack people.

>>9487

Yes but even with Kyle "not caring for the force" he still almost let his emotions get the better of him when he thought Jan was dead. The more you stray from the teachings of a "true" jedi the more at risk you are to fall to the darkness. This is what made Lukes New Jedi Order so interesting his order didnt take children at a young age from their parents he took in teenagers and adults full of misguided emotion.

>>9487

>A Jedi could use force lighting to kick start a villages generator and restore power

Sure, how you use the power is what ultimately decides what kind of person you are, I can understand that. But doesn't the nature of the Force mean that what emotions you draw on will limit what abilities you can use? Jedi, for instance, can call upon Electric Judgement, but that's only a facsimile of the true Sith Lightning. The events of Darth Plagueis suggest this further: attempting to create life through the Force not only required heavy knowledge of the dark side, the mere act was such a perversion of the natural order that the Force struck out against the Sith, conceiving a being with the potential to destroy them.

Would Qui Gon be considered a grey jedi with his vies on the living force contrasting that of the council's views?

>>9490

I think several sources did say that he was "like a grey jedi" but ultimately still work for the council so he was still considered light, but problematic.

>>9490

Rogue Jedi he still worked for the order and believed in thier ways

Gray Jedi as a concept are so stupid. They’re just good guys who use white or gray.

>>9486 (OP)

Gray Jedi fags BTFO

>>9522

Holy cow I thought this was gonna be autistic due to the length but it really does undermine the faggots who say “gray is best”

>Revan

>apathetic

Even as a Sith lord, Revan wasn't some layabout or laughably sadistic asshole, but a ruthless and driven leader with a vision. You can argue that he only did this because he's simply on the darker side of gray like Kreia, but he was not apathetic nor outright evil.

Kreia wasn't a gray Jedi at any time. She was a fanatic nutjob, the equivalent of angry apostate, a frustrated luciferian figure raging against it's god while knowing that was a doomed effort.

She was trying to kill the Force, or better the connection between life and it, without caring about the consequences.

>>9582

True, but I think they mean gray as in she's not devoted to anything except herself. She wants her own evil reasoning for doing stupid evil shit that doesn't fall in line with traditional sith or jedi views. She is a somewhat unique sick fuck.

>>9557

Don't take the 'apathy' thing too directly. Apathy only applies to Grey Jedi. Revan was a Grey Sith.

The point is that you can either be selfless and lose your ego, become apathetic by exiling yourself from all of life, limit the amount of times you indulge in your passions, or go embrace your passions completely.

>>9490

Qui-Gon had criticisms of the Jedi but kept to himself. He is the same as Jolee except rather than run away from the Jedi, he just ran away from his views on the Jedi to reinforce them.

>>9487

Sure, it's all on how one uses the Force. But like Kyle, your attachments might make you fall to the Dark Side. Something not enough people acknowledge is that he almost fell multiple times.

>>9486 (OP)

People just misinterpret Gray jedi they think "oh ill just be neutral in the matter" expect the force doesn't work like politics

>>9687

So, grey sith is the way to go? Or maybe someone like Mace Windu who can indulge a bit in the dark side, particularly aggression, and still be a force for good?

>>9692

Also, what this guy says. Taking a third stance != being neutral.

>>9763

>So, grey sith is the way to go?

Grey Sith, like Revan, only limits your indulgences and passions. It's the equivalent of only taking small doses of a highly addictive drug and having a high tolerance. Not everyone can do it and those that can are highly rare and Sith. In the end, it would only cause more chaos and suffering.

And as for Mace Windu, he was willing to break the Jedi way by killing Palpatine which is what made Anakin cut his arm off.

>Taking a third stance != being neutral.

That's the thing, there is no 'third' stance. The third stance is actually no stance at all; apathetic, being an exile. A Grey Jedi is simply a person that still has attachments with others outside the Jedi Order. It is more humane but also more suceptible of falling to the Dark Side. Which is why most Grey Jedi in the Star Wars lore tend to either have almost fallen to the Dark Side or are Sith.

The only other alternatives are those that have ran away or remained silent about their humane stances. There are no other alternatives.

>>9775

>A Grey Jedi is simply a person that still has attachments with others outside the Jedi Order

That might be a bit of an oversimplification. By that reasoning, wouldn't almost everyone in the NJO be a Grey then?

>>9775

What about Kyle? He seemed to have a balance thing going on in the end, and he himself said that no Force power is inherently dark or light and that it all depends on how someone uses it.

>>9776

It's an oversimplication but it's a lot more accurate than saying 'lol they're between the light and dark' without explaining what light and dark actually mean. When it all comes down to attachments (see Anakin scene with the Council in ep 1 where he's afraid of losing his mother and Yoda says attachments is the key to everything) it explains a lot as to why people fall to the Dark Side and why the Jedi teach children at a young age before they form connections with their parents.

>By that reasoning, wouldn't almost everyone in the NJO be a Grey then?

Somewhat. If you haven't been trained at a young age and have attachments with people outside the Jedi Order, then you are a Grey Jedi. If you have notions or opinions that people should be more humane (such as love, etc) then you're a Grey Jedi.

This encompasses a lot of people and is a bit loose in what or who constitutes a Grey Jedi but the standard works in explaining why so many of these people are more likely to fall to the Dark Side compared to traditional Jedi that have been taught at a young age.

>>9777

> he himself said that no Force power is inherently dark or light and that it all depends on how someone uses it.

That's Potentium and is both right and wrong. You're looking at it in terms of 'powers' but it comes down to how one uses the Force. It is often used as an excuse to just learn all the Force powers and use all of them for selfish purposes.

>hey there's no light or dark, I'm just learning to use Force Lightning to 'defend' myself even though it's an aggressive power

As said previously in other posts in this thread, Kyle almost fell to the Dark Side multiple times. He's also a good example since he had an attachments to his father and Jan Ors. Had his partner not turned up to be actually dead, he would have absolutely fallen.

What people focus most on is the first part that powers are not inherently dark or light which isn't entirely true. Some powers exist only as self defensive purposes while others are aggressive. Force Choke for example can never be used as a self defensive purpose and is why most Dark Jedi and Sith use it.

>>9775

That he was, but I can't really say that was the wrong thing to do.

Alright, so I think I get what you're saying. The force, particularly the dark side, is a heavily corrupting presence that can lead you down the path to evil with something as basic to humanity but still emotional as loving another? The only way to avoid this is to basically destroy your own ego and be one with the force at the cost of your own humanity. The alternative is trying to be more human but the corrupting influence of the dark side seducing you little by little until you're an inhuman monster, with only a few people managing to retain their humanity and not fall to the dark side.

Sad, but also interesting in a sense. Both sides of the force lead one to being inhuman, the light side creating servants of the force with little personality of their own and the dark side creating monsters out of people who may have just started out wanting to protect another. The only other options are apathy or attempt to tread the incredibly difficult line of gray sith (Revan) or a non-apathetic gray Jedi (Windu). I gotta say, the Star Wars Universe is pretty fucking grimdark when you look at it like that.

>>9781

>Somewhat. If you haven't been trained at a young age and have attachments with people outside the Jedi Order, then you are a Grey Jedi.

I don't know if I'm convinced. I agree with you that the LOL I ARE NEUATRAL explanation is lacking, but I don't think it's accurate to say that everyone who has attachments becomes a Grey Jedi, because "Jedi" isn't a manifestation of the Force. The Order is just that--an organization of people, who happen to share a mostly common philosophy. I mention this because there are two assumptions you seem to be making that I contend with: first, that the Jedi philosophy is static, and exists outside the Order, and that your definition of Grey Jedi is negative (if you don't have attribute X, you're a Grey).

What it means to be a Jedi is ultimately up to the Jedi themselves. The Old Guard would consider the NJO Grey Jedi due to their more relaxed stipulations about family contact. But when Luke's order came along, Luke made a conscious choice to change what it meant to be a Jedi, and as such the more attached members of the NJO aren't Greys by his definition. And yes, they may be more likely to fall to the Dark side, but that's a potentiality statement. It's less than real, and doesn't describe their current alignment or mindset. I would argue that until those attachments cause them to fall, they're still Jedi.

Second, by claiming that anyone who's mostly light-side but has attachments is a Grey Jedi, you're assuming that anyone operating under light-side principles is Jedi or affiliated with the Jedi. This can't be true, because the Jedi are an organization, not the embodiment of the light side. You can embrace ascetism in the fullest, detach yourself from the physical in every way that you can be detached, achieve Forceful Nirvana and generally be everything that the Old Guard claimed a Jedi should be and not be a Jedi, because you've never been a part of the Order. Likewise, you can have beings that are very similar in mindset to the Grey Jedi, but they aren't Grey Jedi because they've never been a part of the Order.

>>9784

On that note, where does Kreia fall on that spectrum? A gray Sith of sorts like Revan was? Her philosophy, while closer to Sith in nature, was not of mindless indulgence and lust for power, but to use the force as a tool. To be used, but not to relied on, lest you become it's slave, like she saw it did to the Jedi and the Sith. This is pretty much the last thing that comes to mind when thinking of a solution to problem, but is it unrealistic? As you mentioned with Kyle, Windu, and Revan, all were exceptional individuals who could tread the line, and even then they nearly fell. Is Kreia's philosophy like the gray jedi argument in that it's a nice-sounding third path but ultimately unrealistic (for most)?

>>9786

Although true, they are still servants of the Force. They exist to destroy the cancer that comes from the Dark Side of the Force. The Jedi Order exist not simply as a gathering of people with Force abilities but to seal people from potentially turning to the Dark Side accidently. This is why the Jedi teach at a young age before they form attachments with their parents, deny all possessions and do not allow their members to fall in love. People readily despise the Jedi for teaching these things but they don't exist in a vacuum. There is a reason for these teachings and that is because if people with Force abilities were left to do whatever they want, a large majority would use it for selfish reasons and fall to the Dark Side.

>What it means to be a Jedi is ultimately up to the Jedi themselves

Which is why I argue that the deviation of what it means to be a Jedi while still aligning yourself with the Jedi is what defines a Grey Jedi. The Jedi teach to not form attachments, not have possessions, not have romantic relationships. They central key is, again, attachments. Thus to not have any attachments is to be a Jedi and to have attachments is to be a Grey Jedi.

>It's less than real, and doesn't describe their current alignment or mindset. I would argue that until those attachments cause them to fall, they're still Jedi.

I don't disagree. There are Grey *JEDI* They are still aligned with the Jedi, it makes them more humane. But the potentiality is absolutely real and should never be dismissed.

Even within the original trilogy, Luke had attachments with Han and Leia and it is that attachments that lead him to be baited by Vader in Empire Strikes Back. And in Return of the Jedi, it is his attachment with Leia that almost made him fall to the Dark Side. Luke would have absolutely fallen had he not notice that he was becoming like his father. It is by throwing away his lightsaber does Luke maintain his stance by being a Jedi, like his father before him.

>This can't be true, because the Jedi are an organization, not the embodiment of the light side.

This is a problem of what the 'light side' actually means. The light side simply means the Force itself. It is not another side to the Force. The Jedi become zen to become in tune with the Force, and while they are an organization, serve primarily to be in tune with the Force. They act as peace mediators and act purely selfless to make sure no one falls to the Dark Side. Nothing more.

Although they do kinda act in defense for the Republic but that's another issue entirely.

The point is still that the Jedi exist primarily to be servants of the Force by never using it selfishly and act as an organization to destroy those that use the Force selfishly. The Grey Jedi can still act as both servants of the Force and the organization of the Jedi Order by destroying Sith. The thing is also that the Force itself does not ever speak with the Jedi. So they have to just do what they feel is right. This is why Qui-Gon argued that training Anakin was the will of the Force only because there is no such thing as chance and it was providence to get Anakin trained. This ruined the Jedi as an organization (not destroyed!) but still fulfilled the intent of the Force by destroying those that used the Force selfishly with their passions.

Some Grey Jedi leave the organization of the Jedi but still serve its tenants and selfless attitude. But the key issue is that most of these people tend to value attachments. See Jolee Bindo.

So overall, Grey Jedi is an umbrella definition meaning a Humane Jedi that has attachments, working inside or outside the Jedi Order. They have a higher potency of falling to the Dark Side compared to traditional Jedi that have no attachments and those that fall outside the Jedi Order tend to become apathetic after facing failure.

I think that covers everything.

>>9788

Kreia was a Jedi that became a Sith to understand how to understand them, defeat them and reinforce the Jedi Order. But she came to the understanding that it is impossible so long as the Force itself exists because it is the root of everything. If you kill all the Jedi Masters and go to Dantooine, you can ask her where are all the Jedi Masters, to which she says 'yes it is I although I am no longer with them'. Kreia is essentially a mix of a Grey Jedi and Grey Sith that was unable to transcend both. She does not care for labels therefore I don't think it is apt to label her in turn.>because "Jedi" isn't a manifestation of the Force

>>9793

I can agree with most of what you say. Personally, I can't quite bring myself to agree with the hardline rejection of any and all family. The way I see it, one of the reasons that the Jedi were unable to see the resurgence of the Sith, and thus unable to prevent the Purge, was because they followed the Order's tenets a little too dogmatically to be flexible. Now, I don't mean to lay the blame entirely on their attachment policy here. It certainly was not the only factor; the Jedi devoting themselves to the Republic and its government drove them away from devotion to the people in the Republic and from serving the Force. But I do think that forced detachment helped to make them a bit out-of-touch with what was going on in the galaxy.

Luke's decision to relax the rules about family ties was deliberate. It's not just that he wanted keep banging Mara Jade without the others of the Order tut-tutting him, he made a conscious decision to humanize the Jedi, so that they wouldn't become too far away from the ordinary people they were meant to protect. That's also the reason Luke did away with the custom of Jedi wearing robes all the time, except for formal occasions.

It's true, having more worldly attachments makes it easier for one to be tempted to the dark side. The more devotions you have (family, The Force, Duty, etc), the more likely conflicts of interest are. It's not hard to deny that. But Luke's Order also placed a much higher emphasis on forgiveness compared to the old Order. In the Old Order, Dark Jedi, Sith, anyone with the taint of the dark side was to be destroyed or dealt with, with not many exceptions. But Luke's philosophy, starting from his getting Darth Vader to repent in his last moments, has a lot more room for forgiveness. There might be more potential for Grey/Humane Jedi to be tempted and turn, but it's within the confines of an institution that's for more willing to bring these people back from the brink.

Were Grey Jedi ever properly established as a thing? Is there a story that delves into the concept or does it only pop up on the sidelines?

>>9812

Depends on who you ask. I argue that Lucas properly introduced them in the prequels with Qui-Gon, Windu and Dooku. Qui-Gon represents the apathetic Grey Jedi that keeps his head down and does whatever he wants under the organization of the Jedi. Dooku on the other hand is one that fits the same mold as Revan. He left the Jedi because he felt that they were too connected to the Republic, which was bloated with bureaucracy. He's what most would see as a Grey Sith. It's why he rarely had yellow eyes. Windu on the other hand is a pure Jedi that was more open to use his opponents darkness against them. What is unique with Windu is that he was willing to break the Jedi way by killing Palpatine. People will disagree to the moon about this but this is clear in the movie at the start that Anakin killing Dooku was against the Jedi way and Windu was about to do the same. This act of selfishness is what made Anakin also act selfish and cut his arm.

As shown, the underlying element of the Grey Jedi is that they are willing to break the Jedi Code and way for their own selfish reasons. Officially, the Grey Jedi are simply classified as 'maverick Jedi' which is unhelpful and undefined.

Also ignore the Je'daii, they're shit of the utmost importance. They break the lore and origins of the Jedi.

>>9823

What's so wrong with the Je'daii?

>>9823

>Also ignore the Je'daii, they're shit of the utmost importance. They break the lore and origins of the Jedi.

They're just bendu monks who renamed themselves after landing on Tython.

>>9834

>>9834

>My fear was that The Last Jedi would advocate 'balance' but it retained the traditional view of the Force that it is all of life and not another 'side'.

No. All it did was shit on the whole jedi system and tell everyone not to give a shit about the force and become an obnoxious neutral hero who does things her own shitty way.

>>9834

Is that you, Rikafag?

>>9834

This just screams /v/.

>>9841

Was the chick in the middle meant to resemble Scarlet Witch?

>>9836

It has nothing to do with black and white but how the Force works. Either you give up your ego to be in tune with the Force by being zen, rejecting attachments, or you indulge in your passions. There is no bullshit middle ground by using 'both sides'. They're mutually exclusive. It's like saying you can abstain from all passions but also somehow take a small doses of a highly addictive drug which corrupts you and makes you more passionate. Balance is the most cancerous and destructive element in Star Wars. People think that because Lucas hated that shit that there isn't a reason why it isn't in Star Wars. The truth is that it all comes down to how one uses the Force. I already explained myself in other posts in this thread so I won't repeat myself.

>>9838

I hate the Disney canon as much as the next guy but not having the Je'daii is a netpositive.

>>9841

That's because people associated Qui-Gon as the posterboy of a Grey Jedi. He's wacky and does whatever the fuck he wants. Ergo a Maverick Jedi. But the problem is that it doesn't mean jack shit. That's why I classify a Grey Jedi as a Humane Jedi that still maintains attachment with people outside the Jedi Order. Under that view, I still maintain that Luke's Jedi Order was full of Grey Jedi because he did not train children at a young age but adults. It made everyone more susceptible of falling to the Dark Side and many did fall. Luke is the perfect example as he almost fell to the Dark Side in Return of the Jedi because of his attachment with Leia.

I think in the 90s, being a Jedi just meant having Force powers and indulging in your passions corrupted you. But the prequels expanded this view by relating it to attachments.

>>9837

I disagree. For all the stupid shit The Last Jedi did, it maintained the good versus evil, balance = the Force - imbalance = Dark Side that Star Wars always was. Sure, the way it presented this was horribly done but it's still there.

>>9837

for u

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82Odwy_dvQg

>>9993

>That's because people associated Qui-Gon as the posterboy of a Grey Jedi.

This seems very dumb. Qui-Gon seems more attuned to intervention than the rest of the Order does.

I recall Qui Gon was very much into the Living Force (as in the midichlorians) as opposed to the Energy Force (which Obi Wan or Yoda were more interested in).

>>9993

>but it's still there.

Maybe, but instead of doing balance, it went for the exact opposite and chose "reject both", at least that's what it felt like for me. But considering how poorly Disney is handling things, that was probably not their initial attention, but it sure felt like it, especially in the way they're handling the shitty nu-EU material. Also, I find it rather silly that a jedi has to completely abandon all attachments and emotions just to avoid becoming evil, when it would make more sense that the Dark Side is just a human concept based around their inability to grasp that the "Dark Side" is just them falling prey to their own human nature. When you have the power, some may become overwhelmed by it and become straight up tyrannical or manipulative. Or it could've been like how it was handled with Revan, in that his Darkness was not a result of the Force itself, but the Emperor fucking with his mind as he was basically the evil contaminating the Force. I'm not arguing, I partly agree with you on shit, and I'm sorry if I'm not making a lot of sense since I'm tired and sleepy as fuck at the moment.

>>9994

You know you can embed vids right?

>>11186

The thing is as the way you put the Force is just a power source, without active will. The Force does have a will

>4. There is The Force, and The Dark Side of the force.

>Force is defacto in everything, but the Darkside is just a corruption/mutation of life.

This is what the movies and lots of EU works show. As Plagueis said "The Sith must impose it's will over the Force, turn it into a beast of burden", while at the same time the Dark Side is active in it's corruption, it's space crack.

And remember the Force strikes back, when Plagueis and Sidious started fumbling with it trying to create life, it gaves them the middle finger and created Anakin in response. Plagueis was terrorized by Anakin's existence.

Another thing that gives credence that the Force was an active entity was Kreia. She was pissed off with it, and in the end the Force again gave the middle finger to someone who tried to fuck up the natural order of things.

>>9487

More like a jedi does good and a sith does bad. There's no in between if you strive to be either a villain or a hero.

It's all the shitty anti-hero stuff that bred the grey jedi-shit which doesn't even make sense.

>>9486 (OP)

Grey is just the dark side with a moral veneer of superiority

s>>11216

Oh yeah? Then what are Revan and Jolee? The Force is not current-day politics, anon.ss

>>9542

>>9522

I'm not really a grey jedi fan but I wasn't particularly impressed with either of this guy's videos. Just because he mentions Nietzsche or some Greek gods doesn't make his arguments well-reasoned. I've heard a lot of people besides him make the argument that the Force exists with no explicit "light side", and that the dark side is merely a corruption of the Force itself, but this is flawed. Such a viewpoint establishes the selfless behaviors of the Jedi as "normal" and discredits selfish or self-driven behaviors as "evil." It assigns purely emotional motivators (fear, greed, anger) to dark side behavior and precludes the idea that Sith ideologies could be based on a different, yet still logical, interpretation of reality.

>>11208

>falling for the good vs. evil meme

The Jedi seek a passive existence without conflict, and the Sith seek self-improvement and Darwinian survival of the fittest. There is no good or evil here, just different interpretations of how a tool should be used and how society should function. A Jedi is content to rape your mind to get what he wants, whereas a Sith would engage you in open combat where you have a chance to defend yourself. Which one of those is "evil"?

>>11442

>Sith aren't evil!

-t. Sith

>>11442

Well, with the Jedi I would still be able to keep on living and potentially reobtain what I've lost or a similar product, whereas with the Sith method it would be akin to a champion heavyweight boxer challenging Joe Schmuck to a fight to the death for his wallet, the mugger's using brass knuckles that are made out of lasers that can burn through almost anything, and if you say no he turns your jaw and lower abdomen to cinders and takes your wallet anyways. No matter how you try to sell the Sith side, it's blatantly a one sided fight in virtually all cases, and you can't come back from the dead to try to regain what you've lost. So yes, given the choice in this binary hypothetical situation, I would definitely go with the Jedi.

>>11442

>precludes the idea that Sith ideologies could be based on a different, yet still logical, interpretation of reality

The Sith way of doing things isn’t really logical. They are negative emotion junkies who have precognition and incredible power, and that papers over a lot of their poor decisions. Even Sidious, who was the smartest Sith, decided he wanted to keep building this giant planet destroyer superweapon that kept pissing everybody off and getting blown up instead of the tens of thousands of ships and millions of troops he could equip for its cost. But the Death Star makes perfect sense if you get a high off the terror of others, because you can harvest a whole planet’s worth in seconds.

Or there’s the fact the Sith were so retardedly prone to conflict with each other that one of them finally had to say we can only have two of us, and even that almost ended in disaster a few times.

The Dark Side doesn’t operate on rational impulse, it operates on passion and emotion, which generally means not thinking things through.

>>11208

>It's all the shitty anti-hero stuff.

>Accurately portrays what would happen when trying to use both sides.

So is Kyle a good or bad example then? Although I would defiantly say later year Kyle was defiantly more Light side then grey. I think he only really qualified grey area was during his take down of Jerec, aka " cowboy space western Star Wars" Jedi Knight. Still, going a bit fan wanky. He was a soldier first Scoundrel 4/Soldier 4/Jedi Guardian 7/Jedi Weapon Master 3 By late NJO time, using supplment material is already fucked I know but at least its official. He treated his "tools" ie weapon/guns with a level of respect. "You respect the weapon." Much like how you don't point your gun at people in casual conversation, you don't force choke them ether, it is just rude. New Republic Wetworks probably wasn't the best fit for him, but I'm going based on his skills and stats that he preferred sneaking around then direct conflict. Despite the games, that usually when things went wrong. Technically you could even skip most conflict if you where sneaky enough, or even disarm people and let them run away. My point is there where built in mechanics in the game to be merciful if you felt like it. I know I left Stormtroopers alone after taking away all of the guns. So it should probably infer something about his character. He actually got more mellowed out as with every later game, and was his edgiest in the original Dark Forces. Space Asian I guess probably helped with that. I often seen Mace and Kyle being comparable characters with the dark, light, gray balance. Although Mace was able to do it because he was already black :^) , and is Samuel L Jackson. he had a Jedi council. Kyle had to do it the hard way.

>>11513

I think Kyle should not be used as an example of gray jedi whatsoever

Kyle understood the dangers of the force and the darkside. However he still used certain powers "darkside" powers. It was just a feature in the games but they made it canon. Like how in Jedi Academy he mentions to use the force as a tool and how lightside and Darkside powers are open to jedi under his teachings he also says the abilities are not inherently good or evil its how you use them.

>>11515

Whether you draw on the light or dark side doesn't have much to do with your actions, past or otherwise, at least not directly. The Dark/Light split is based on what emotions you draw on. And what emotions you draw on can heavily influence your actions, but it's ultimately the emotions and not the actions that govern your fall. Drawing on negative emotions like anger, hatred, greed, cruelty is what starts you on the path to the dark side, and it's necessary to to call on these emotions to conjure Force Lightning and other dark side powers. And for Force-sensitives, these negative emotions are like a drug. When you draw on the Force out of anger etc., you become more prone to doing so in the future. And the more you draw on the dark side, the more pull it has on you in turn--prompting you to give in to those emotions more often, and diminishing both your restraint and your compassion of others, as you start ignoring more and more aspects of your old life in the pursuit of more of the power you're now addicted to. And you can only achieve that by embracing your negative emotions even more, to give in even further to acts of cruelty and depravity, until you're so immersed in the dark side that it starts leeching at your physical appearance. Think about Darth Vader, even though he fell to the dark side by trying to protect he ones he loved, the dark side caused him to swell with anger and act without restraint, which is why he choked his wife to near-death. And when the Emperor was shooting lightning at his unarmed son, he had to think about it for a good few minutes before dropping Sheev down that shaft.

In your mercenary example, (though I have no idea how somebody "becomes" force-sensitive, it's always been something you're born with), it's theoretically possible that, if he does his job with the utmost professionalism, taking no passion in his work but not hating it either, he wouldn't fall to the dark side right away. The Imperial Knights of the Legacy era are similar to this: they don't fight for good or for evil, but on behalf of the Fel Empire. However, unless this merc also gets training in willpower, discipline, and controlling his emotions, he'll constantly feel the tug of the dark side, encouraging him to give into his passions and pursue more power. And seeing as he's a mercenary, someone who deals death for a living, he'll be closer to the darkside than most, and even with training in discipline he'd always be pretty damn close to falling. If you want him to be a force-sensitive merc that remains firmly in the Grey without falling to the dark, he'd probably need to have a personal code of honor that he follows with a near religious devotion, something like the Bounty Hunter's Code but more in-depth.

>>11519

>thesis+antithesis=new order

I can't say I agree with this. Luke's NJO didn't really advocate passion, or any other parts of the Sith doctrine mentioned within the rightmost part of the image. The key differences between the original Jedi Order and the NJO were:

>child kidnappings

He was much more okay with training adults than the old order was. And while the NJO did encourage students to start young it was far from mandatory

>Forgiveness

Jedi might not execute their prisoners, but the old order was very zealous in its things relating to the dark side and the Sith especially. Killing Sith lords/dark Jedi on sight while in battle was pretty much the norm. Even Obi-Wan and Yoda told Luke that the only way to stop Vader was to kill him. After Luke brought Vader to salvation he promoted that ideal in his new Order, always trying to save fallen Force-users instead of killing them.

>Attachment

Luke made the New Order less monastic, allowing his Jedi to fuck and get married. This was mostly a pragmatic choice in my view, as the Jedi's cloistered lifestyle in the Old Order made them out of touch with the greater galaxy, and is one of the things that led to their downfall.

>>9823

>Officially, the Grey Jedi are simply classified as 'maverick Jedi' which is unhelpful and undefined.

That's all they are. Random heterodox jedi, some of them holding different views on the nature of the force or just telling the council to fuck off. If they were organized they wouldn't be grey jedi, they'd be one of the dozen or so minor orders of force users.

>>11537

>Apparently some dinosaur man and Lady Turok got some Empire scientist together found out if you grind up a bunch of lightsaber and "inject them?" into people you can make half ass force users.

The more interesting thing was by mounting illum crystals to stormtroopers they created force-sensitive stormtroopers called shadowtroopers who were more powerful than the Reborn.

>>11537

They never got anyone to be Force-sensitive before they went to the Valley of the Jedi. It would have been interesting if the next Jedi Knight game had you play as a Reborn test subject who managed to escape the Remnant and wasn't completely driven nuts, but still has traces of insanity and Force powers that work in strange and unpredictable ways that no Force users have ever seen before, and this combination of traits poses a threat to both his mental health and the galaxy. This would make him sort of like Cloud Strife, but with a weapon which despite its hyper-advanced nature still somehow manages to be more practical than a slab of metal with a handle.

>>11581

Shadowtroopers were just Reborn with cortosis armor.

>>11604

Sounds like you want to see something like a Malkavian

>>11604

They were stormtroopers who were Reborn and given crystals to augment their power.