/strek/ - Star Trek ★

>>9751 (OP)

Kevin Uxbridge. Would have been nice to have an episode or two where he gets a mention as a possible solution to the Borg.

I guess I wanted to see him go berserk and wipe somebody out.

>>9751 (OP)

That would have been a fantastic arc, but it was never going to happen. After TNG, Frakes became a full-time director and the only times he showed up in Trek episodes post-TNG was for fun, he had no interest in becoming a recurring character, no matter how well it may have worked for the show.

Frankly it was already too much with O'Brien, and Worf's addition to the show was uncalled for and unbalanced the character relationships. I do anything to get that Worf screentime back and give it to Quark.

>>9768

Worf seemed redundant. They already had Odo who filled the 'Worf' role.

>>9751 (OP)

>You can't tell me that a long-term, seasonal plot with Tom Riker leading the Maquis wouldn't have been awesome instead of it being a one-off episode.

I can imagine this wouldn't have been in the cards as it would've confused viewers (people who are just tuning in). They'd need to give Tom Riker an evil goatee like evil Spock from the Mirror universe.

That and it would've been expensive. Frakes would've wanted top billing and not cameo money and it probably would've felt too much like backtracking for the staff. It's one of the reasons why they deliberately didn't do borg or Q episodes in DS9 because they wanted to try newer episodes rather than just rehashes.

>>9772

alt-Riker could have worked as a 4 or 5 episode plot line at the end of some season. Maybe they could not do that in the 90s because everything had to be one off episodes. If DS9 was made today then it could have happened.

>>9772

Logistically, I completely understand why they wouldn't have been able to do it. I'm basically just starting a what-if thread for cool minor arcs that could have been expanded to something grander.

I guess another example would be the "Year of Hell" episode. That premise could have been an entire season.

It would be about as silly and convoluted as Sela with less of a point imo

>>9772

>It's one of the reasons why they deliberately didn't do borg or Q episodes in DS9 because they wanted to try newer episodes rather than just rehashes.

Presumably Q and Borg episodes were part of a deliberate decision to make Voyager rehashed garbage then

>>9751 (OP)

The Maquis plotline was scrapped not too long after he showed up, if I recall correctly, so it's not like he'd have much to do. They dropped him in prison and memory hole'd the whole character because one Riker was more than enough for the whole galaxy. Thomas's entire origin had to be handwaved away anyways, because it was essentially a way to create flawless, unlimited clones with a set of environmental circumstances that could be easily recreated, if memory serves.

>>9834

The fact that they never had Garak and Sloane going head to head was a blueball.

>>9817

>Presumably Q and Borg episodes were part of a deliberate decision to make Voyager rehashed garbage then

Kind of, yeah. After the first couple of seasons they basically tried to remake Voyager into another TNG.

>>9855

Emphasis on "tried," Ensign Dubsman. They should've realised that they couldn't rebottle the lightning and let the show be its own thing.

>>9857

the concept of voyager (lost in space but with the existing star trek universe up to that point in continuity) was solid.

they just never actually attempted to deliver the concept. hence some serious belly laughs at the voyager torpedo count video. could they have eventually found a way to restock and replace their torpedoes? yup, in fact that could have been the impetus for an episode by itself, but we never even got that.

>>9859

Kim: Captian here is your toast with a compliment of condiments.

Janeway: Nutella?

Kim: We only have ¼ of a tub left.

Janeway: I don't care, Nutella Full spread!

Chakotay: Same here Ensign, Nutella on Toast, Full spread.

Kim: Question, Will you ever promote me?

Janeway and Chakotay: NO!

>>9861

Did anyone like Kim, the character or even the actor who played him?

>>9858

>There's a lot of great ideas that one can come up with about a Federation starship separated from the Federation. In my opinion it should've been one of the darkest shows in the series (darker than even DS9) and featuring moral complications arising from having limited supplies and an almost impossible task of flying for 70 years without being serviced. Like I think they should've had episodes where Voyager desperate for supplies turns to piracy or something just for the "greater good" of the mission. Similar to how some of the best episodes of DS9 are ones where the characters deliberately contradict the principles of the Federation just to survive.

>>9859

>hence some serious belly laughs at the voyager torpedo count video. could they have eventually found a way to restock and replace their torpedoes? yup, in fact that could have been the impetus for an episode by itself, but we never even got that

Yeah, the episodes where they were "desperate for supplies" was few and far between because the episodes that had that happen was one where they found an nedula and wasted supplies they were in desperate need of when they found out it was a living creature (The Cloud), the episode where they landed on the demon planet and made the clone Voyager crew (Demon), the episode where they ran into the other Federation ship which was pulled into the quadrant some years earlier (Equinox), and the episode where they were stuck in the void (The Void). There were also the episodes where they teamed up with the Borg to get through a certain region, but I have yet to actually watch them. Also, there was that one episode where Seven of Nine had to pilot the ship alone through a sector and just started losing her mind.

If anything, they were more focussed about the crew "getting home" which, ironically, were the episodes the crew made some of the most boned-headed decisions that resulted in one character coming back from the future or being the "ration character" to save the crew's ass. Although, I doubt the series could have been more darker without it sacrificing viewership. Going by how my parents have been Trek fans since the first series, there are a few of the darker episodes they refuse to watch such as "Skin of Evil" in Next Gen and both of the "In a Mirror, Darkly" episodes from Ent. However, I cannot remember them skipping a single one of DS9' s episodes. Although, I must confess, all of us liked Voyager more than Next Gen, so take that for what you will.

>>9858

>There's a lot of great ideas that one can come up with about a Federation starship separated from the Federation. In my opinion it should've been one of the darkest shows in the series (darker than even DS9) and featuring moral complications arising from having limited supplies and an almost impossible task of flying for 70 years without being serviced

We got that with nuBSG, and I would argue it is worse than Voyager.

>>9858

Making my way through Voyager again, I've noticed on more than a few occasions, the conflict of the plot is "we're starfleet and we don't do that!" even while they continue to do shit that puts them in constant danger… Like conveniently forgetting Janeway's constant whining that they don't want to upset the power balance in this quadrant by interfering with other species. Then the majority of the episodes center around 'hey what's that alien thing? Let's fuck with it!" immediately followed by "captain, we're out of everything and the ship is going to explode again"

I guess all of Voyager goes without saying.

The writers and showrunners couldn't be bothered to film the original alt-Riker TNG episode last during the season, thereby allowing Frakes to shave his beard for the part. They had a golden opportunity to subvert the "spock's beard" meme and add verisimilitude to the story, but alas, they lack passion and conviction.

Why would you expect many of the same dullards to handle the character competently in DS9?

>>10669

The supposed potential of Voyager is greatly exaggerated imo. The concept did more to limit them than it did to open up any new story possibilities.

>>10681

I disagree. The potential was through the roof, and the writers wasted it because they wanted to make a glorified continuation of TNG.

>>10681

>The concept did more to limit them than it did to open up any new story possibilities.

One could easily say the same of DS9. Like looking at the concept of the show it really doesn't work on paper

>Set mostly in a single location

>Turning a serialized show that previously featured swashbuckling explorers in space dealing with ever changing conflicts into a show set in a single location featuring 1-2 recurring conflicts

>Not all of the cast is Starfleet, some even show contempt for the organization like Quark.

>Child actors

>Religious themes in a previously atheistic show (what does God need with a starship?)

However it really worked due to the amount of restraint the writers had and how much they committed to the premise. (No borg/q episodes. Few themes repeated from TNG. Focusing on Bajor/The Cardassians right until the end of the show. Having an ensemble cast where everyone is interesting. Having dark episodes that really question the principles of the Federation. Etc). The real difference is the quality of the writers.

Voyager meanwhile has an almost identical premise to TNG. Just a group of explorers exploring space. However they had basically everything handed to them

>Free tension and suspense at any given time due to the nature of the show, could easily have tons of episodes relating to supplies getting low and moral conflicts related to it

>female protagonist already having tons of episode fodder

>The nature of the show's premise allows for tons of variety to new races, not just people in rubber masks but you could even do something on the scale of the crystaline entity and not have to justify it by being something new Starfleet hasn't seen

>can be dark without needing to force it

and so on. The show really had everything handed to it and the writers did practically NOTHING with it. It's unsurprising given a lot of the writers left to other shows after DS9. It's a show that had it been made today in the age of streaming and post-Breaking Bad most likely would've been way better. The fact they couldn't even do little details like how many torpedoes the ship had really shows how much apathy the writers had towards the show.

>>10755

Voyagers premise wasn't just "more of TNG".

The idea was that the ship would be stranded far from home, with a rag tag crew struggling to survive without any of the support starfleet usually would provide.

They just didn't use any of it and actively forgot most of it after the first episode.

Next to no conflict between maquis and starfleet crews.

No resource shortages or lack of spareparts unless its plot convenient. They even kept their holodecks working all the way home, cause we can't have trek without "The Holodeck is on the Fritz again" episodes, limited continuity about shit like shuttles and torpedoes and so on.

Basically the show was supposed to have been more like the best parts of nuBSG but they threw the premise away immediately. Think "Year of Hell" as a 7 season long arc.

It could have been different from regular trek, it could even have been good, but they forgot it all by episode 2.

>>10772

>Voyagers premise wasn't just "more of TNG".

Something's premise and what it actually is are two different things. Voyager's premise is what you claim, but what it was, was a dumping ground for pet plots that weren't good enough for TNG. Someone on here once claimed that Voyager's initial production numbers implied it was TNG season 8 right up until they actually started filming. I can't verify that, though.

>>10772

>the best parts of nuBSG

The best parts of nuBSG were a mystery box and the promise of some big awesome events that never happened. All the shortages and conflict amounted to was crying. And close-ups of actors’ faces. And crying. And hamfisted Iraq War metaphor. And crying.

Voyager was better off cloning TNG. You got some shit like Tuvix or such every so often with the episodic format.

>>10794

voyager really let me down, and that's probably because the potential was immense. a starfleet crew cut off from the rest of the fleet, surviving only by making themselves the priority, really testing the principles of a federation crew. basically, equinox, but on a grander scale, and with intelligent explorations of morality vs practicality.

they would only need a tiny amount of episode to episode continuity to make it work, but they weren't even willing to do that. they had their chance and they blew it.

Wait a minute. On the subject of Voyager, was the question ever raised of settling down in the Delta Quadrant and waiting for Starfleet to find them?

>>10820

Yep, "The 37's" was about that - a planet occupied by humans who had been abducted by aliens to be used as slave labor who then rose up and gained independence.

Janeway gave the crew permission to stay if they wanted and realized that if enough of the crew stayed she would be forced to stay as well (not enough people to run the ship).

When she shows up in the cargo bay, nobody had opted to stay - she got all teary-eyed.

Remember that for most of VOY, Janeway was dreaming of Mark's hot cock and her dogs.

>>10820

Multiple times, but always as a sort of "well, we don't want to, but if we have to, we will!" option.

>>9751 (OP)

>>9774

yeah would have been awesome, Frakes is a great guy and also some Tom/William double play and uncertainty would have been a cool addition

>>10820

seems kinda unlikely that Starfleet would find them, since they got pulled in by a wormhole that after that got closed, Starfleet would just assume they were forever lost, erect some sort of monument and then forget about them

>>10830

yea, the 37s wasn't really about waiting for starfleet to find them, in fact I don't think they ever attempted to consider that.

it wouldn't really have been feasible anyway, it would be like walking out your front door only to find yourself on pluto and waiting for the cops to come looking for you. no one is gonna know how you even got there, similar to how voyager ended up on the far side of the delta quadrant.

or also like that episode the void, where there is a void, and voyager ends up inside it, so they all decide to wait for starfleet to find them. that doesn't work because space is really big.

>Episode about Xeno Museum about Voyager

>Voyager is portrayed as a bunch of tyrannical pirates brutally subjugating every race they encounter and stealing their tech

>Literally most accurate Voyager episode

>>9751 (OP)

It's a shame. When the DS9 writers were accepting spec scripts, they explicitly noted that they weren't interested in revisiting Tom Riker.

>>9832

It seems like duplicating something would be easier than transporting it…putting something back together has to be harder than disintegrating it. IIRC, Tom Riker was created when Will Riker was transported off a planet at the last second before it became uncontactable for several years. I'm not sure it'd be trivial to reproduce that, and in any case, the duplicate would be stuck on the planet for years.

>>10660

I don't understand people's obsession with wanting to make VOY a 7 season long dark, gritty, Morally Grey challenge of the Federation's values.

They're doing it now with STD and it's awful. What's the point of "well what if the enemy were a group of sentient, hyperemotional KILLBABIES who wanted to kill everything but were hurt by pain x10000 more than you and also they got x10000 more enjoyment from killing than anyone else???? what NOW Starfleet?! do you still think they have a right to exists?? or are you space FASCISTS that impose your beliefs on the galaxy??!?!"

I liked VOY for the simple reason that the crew were all B-listers *at best*. Incompetent, moody, and annoying; it's hard to imagine that the Federation really missed them.

The show is a comedy. It has the funniest episodes in the whole series hands down.

>>10874

Well apparently Feds name their Battleships "Explorers" and guess what Voyager is classed as? :^)

>>10874

Kinda filled the role of the required "Mirror Universe" episodes for Voyager, without actually having to go there. I liked it, all the more so because it was a Doctor episode, and I imagine the cast had a SHITLOAD of fun playing fantastic nazis as counterpoints to their usual characters.

>>11787

>It has the funniest episodes in the whole series hands down

"Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy" might be my favorite episode of the entire franchise. The way the ECH changes his uniform and makes the Captain pips appear one-by-one on his collar with little "zzpp" sounds makes me squeal like a schoolgirl.

>>9834

Do you want Borg Jem'Hadar? Cause this is how you get Borg Jem'Hadar.

The Changelings would have found some goopy ass way to control the borg

>>12046

>you know I just realized if the Borg assimilated the Changelings you'd get the T-1000

>the legendary season 8 DS9 plotline

>>12043

It was geared up that Federation and Romulans would be fighting each other even during DS9

>>12043

San Francisco kept getting fucked in star trek. Makes me laugh every time.

>>12100

They could've done something with a resurgent Cardassia and marauding Breen, to say nothing of upstart Gamma Quadrant nations. And the Dominion attacking the long way.

>>11787

>I don't understand people's obsession with wanting to make VOY a 7 season long dark, gritty, Morally Grey challenge of the Federation's values

I think there's a subset of fandom that basically wanted another series worth of later-day DS9 over other possibilities. Personally I would have preferred another time skip forward to something not even close to Picard/Sisko era rather than what we got, after a cooldown of a year or two for the production team to refresh and get some mojo back, filling in the gap with a TNG movie or something.

>>12119

You're the autist who wanted the next series of Star Trek after TOS to continue right after it left off, aren't you? What was so bad about TNG?

>>12127

A Frosted Frakes mini-series wouldn't be so bad if it was him as an Admiral grumbling about the Starfleet and Federation becoming very militarized and not what he remembers it being.

>>12111

Having the Romulans alone fucking the shit out of a weakened Federation would have been enough entertainment.

>>12232

>In my mind, he coasts for the years after the events of TNG Season 7 and takes early retirement.

It's established in the episode where Riker's transporter double is found that he was a Lt. only 2 years prior to his posting on the Enterprise, that means he breezed over Lt. Cmdr in fairly short order, and made Cmdr in only 2 years, so he probably had some years due to pad out his resume to Captain.

> Him making captain in his state is as awkward as Beverly Crusher becoming a captain.

That's just stupid for a variety of reasons, namely military branches have restricted and unrestricted rank branches, a medical officer could rise to Captain or Admiral in rank within the medical branch but hold no authority over an unrestricted Jr. Lt. redshirt in a tactical situation.

>>12238

>>12232

I take it we are ignoring Star Trek: Titan, then.

>>12286

That… is a shoop. Please?

>>12286

even if it is a shoop, it's pretty much the absolute state of official star trek in [current year] anyway.

>>12291

>>12293

I can confirm it's real, and found in Star Trek Timelines.

>>12286

>intervening in "gender abuse"

>again, except when it comes to men being abused, then it's just "their culture"

>>12323

i've never played the game so i don't know the context but from the text it looks to completely conflate Starfleet Officers and Federation Citizens so who knows. Probably written by a strong independent gyno-"game developer" with problem hair who knows exactly nothing about Star Trek other than it was something she binged-watched on Netflix a few years back with her rapist.

>>12324

like this guy >>12322 said, it's from ST:T where the overall plot is every single Trek character old and new got thrown in the same timeline (I think Q did it for shits and giggles) so you have missions and challenges where you can put together a team of characters with specific traits. The game is nice when you want to waste time, it's basically just a card collecting game if the cards were various Trek characters, the plot isn't relevant. Anyways, that pic >>12286 refers to a set of challenges you have every day (they change daily) and they all have their "plots" as well. The reason this one is so feminist is because this challenge forces you to make a combo of only female characters (I don't remember if this was the one where you could only use 2* star female Starfleet members or 3* rated female characters only). Honestly, Admiral Riker is kind of a dick no matter which answer you give, but these options and text boxes only show up when you haven't finished the challenges in the easiest difficulty yet. Afterwards you don't get them anymore.

Not justifying the [current year] stuff, but just info if anyone was curious.

Can I sperg a bit how fucking shit the STD cards are? iirc they only gave Saru a 2* card, but all the rest are at least 4*+ (including another Saru). I know why they did it, but it's such bullshit. You can really tell how much their uniforms and overall stances clash with OG Trek when you see the cards side by side.

>>12336

>timeline mashing

Ever read Q-Squared?

>>12357

nah, should i?

>>12364

Yeah. We revisit the Squire of Gothos, Trelane. Q is his mentor. Things go so badly wrong that Q has to beg Picard for help. It all goes downhill from there.

>>12366

ok yeah i've heard of it. i will check it out. thx for the rec.

>>12366

looks like a i have both ebook and audiobook read by JDL himself in my stash, but it says abridged. would you happen to know if the audiobook is worth it?

>>12371

I have no idea, since I read the original in hardback form bought cheap at a resale shop. Give it a whirl, though, and tell us about it. Or also post vids.

>>12286

Frosted Frakes really let himself go.

After forcing myself through CIScovery, if they had just made it about a Mirror Universe series to begin with I think most people would have been happy with it.

>>12238

>omething happened to the man around late Season 1 - early Season 2 to stall him out and probably change his life forever. At least. that's my guess.

He was made into a Q at one point. Perhaps looking back at how he handled having that much power made him question his own ability to command.

I wouldn't call it wasted potential, but I find it funny how TNG had that episode where they found out warp travel can fuck up space, even going so far as to have Starfleet give the Enterprise a limit on what warp number they could go to and then it gets completely ignored for the rest of the series. I can't complain, though, I hated that episode.

>>16420

/strek/ is capable of finding logic and reasoning where writers find none. Truly a magical place.

>>16431

They mentioned it once in the very next episode I think, but seriously, how did they ever expect that to work and be a part of that setting

>>16431

Supposedly it was in that region only. But yeah, that was a shit and hamfisted episode.

>>16461

If I recall, they mention Starfleet telling them to ignore their mandate about warp travel and go as fast as they want, so it was even more pointless than before.