/strek/ - Star Trek ★

There shouldn't even be a reason to have any manned vessels at all, but that wouldn't make much sense for a show. The people just want to do things by themselves, though they are hardly consistent about it. Having an android do things people wouldn't be able to do, even out of mere convenience like Data working multiple shifts to keep an experienced officer in command when the fleshbags need sleep, is fine as long as the android is personable and unique enough. Having the computer do everything is bad though (apparently only because some poor nigga fucked it up once).

They only started experimenting with ship-wide holo emitters late into the Dominion War with the Prometheus prototype and its Andy Dick EMH. So it seems they were just beginning to, and there is no doubt that The Doctor's mobile emitter was eventually reverse engineered and mass produced by Starfleet.

>>12602

Where did the mobile emitter come from originally? Voyager acquires a mobile emitter from the 29th century, Starfleet reverse engineers it, now mobile emitters exist. They have no inventor.

>>12604

Possibly an example of a predestination paradox, the Department of Temporal Investigations is gonna love this one.

>>12606

The Department officers may need to sit down, the explanation may take some time.

It was probably fear of being replaced. Same reason that there aren't billions of androids puttering around. Even ones that have only minimal intelligence (not super-advanced like Data) and greater-than-human-strength would revolutionize labor. Send those fuckers down into a dangerous situation instead of an away team, or just make a simple and replaceable army, like robotic Jem-hadar.

>>12604

>Where did the mobile emitter come from originally?

Probably, the Doctor would have invented it; no reason he can't still be around in the 29th century.

>>12600 (OP)

>they could slap a holo emitter in a room and fill it with tireless worker

Why would you make a computer simulate a person doing hard work when you could just build a robot to do it?

Its like the idea they had in STO where you have this maximum security prison manned with holographic guards instead of human guards. Its a neat idea, bout wouldn't it be better to build your prison to be directly controlled by the computer making all those holograms rather than making holograms who have to push buttons to open doors and shit in there? Its the same logic that has the holographic doctor push buttons to make himself incorporeal or to turn himself back into being corporeal no, I haven't got a clue how he can even push a button while he's incorporeal

My point is, that a hologram of a human would be far more complicated than building a machine to do it or designing the place so the computer running it can do that shit itself.½

>>12619

>no, I haven't got a clue how he can even push a button while he's incorporeal

Real-world phones can sense a finger hovering nearby even before it touches the screen. It might be that the panels have something similar than can detect holograms even when they aren't corporeal.

>>12619

>My point is, that a hologram of a human would be far more complicated than building a machine to do it or designing the place so the computer running it can do that shit itself.½

Designing a machine takes time and resources. You could just tell the computer to make a holographic machine or some kind of morphic instant adapting holobeing that can do all the work of any machine with the maneuverability and adaptability of a human-shaped worker.

I'm now considering a post Dom-War series of Star Trek where an experimental ship crewed almost entirely with holographic clones and captained by a single human officer 'boldly goes' into the Beta Quadrant (have the captain be a rather nerdy beta for the lulz and also because it seems to fit). It would focus on the holographic crew slowly learning that they are holograms, how they react, and whether the captain is able to relate to them as people or if he comes to see them as computerized automatons.

It sounds like you could get a few series worth of interesting stories out of that before you threw any alien cultures, spatial anomalies, or monsters of the week at the ship.

Is it just me or was The Orville the first show to demonstrate how a holodeck could actually work?

>>12633

I'm wondering if they could do something like a holographic ship. A barebones framework, a warp core, a computer core, both heavily shielded, maybe some repurposed nanites to run integral maintenance, and a giant grid of holo-emitters to create equipment, crew, and so on. They could have an entire armada of holoships, nearly indestructible as they instantly repair any damage by generating new hull, and it's crew never truly die.

>>12708

The moment the Breen (or anyone else) hit it with an EMP, it'd skeletonize and fall apart.

>heavily shielded

I'm sure you can never truly immunize your technology against hostile aliens bent on turning it off. I'm sure the Breen would eventually overcome the Klingon tech that prevented their weapons from working as intended, and then a (nearly) full machine crew would be done. That's the major flaw with using machines (especially ones that are only physical when active). Any disruption of their holo-matrix (which there are plenty of ways to do) could potentially destabilize the entire ship or expose it to serious fire in its core gubbins. The other machine faults apply, programmable, predictable, rigid, rote. Tin-men lack hearts, too, in the metaphorical sense. I don't know if you could program a hologram with enough philosophical understanding for it to make a lot of the judgements you'd need to make to be a truly superior officer or crewman.

Plus think of the Borg. Borg holograms are a terrifying thought. Personally I think the EMH and all of that holo-stuff they jammed into the series really opened up a can of worms.

Come to think of it, in Enterprise the Romulans had a holo-ship. It was a heavily armed drone which could project a false image of a different ship design, so as to trick the enemy into believing a different race committed an attack. It was extremely cramped and had some notable power issues - and that's just with a "cloak" of holography. Imagine doing that for a lot of a, physical ship. The power requirements would probably be outrageous, and so would the waste energy management. I'm not saying it's a dumb idea or a bad one, I just think it would have glaring weaknesses.

Also holograms can die if their matrix is damaged enough. The EMH had that problem once, because Holograms aren't just data somehow. They're both data and some kind of physical memory component. When the EMH was left running too long, he nearly died. Something about blah blah hologram hardware can't take it, blah blah memory loss, blah blah have to reboot and try to undo what we did. That's why they re-used the EMH programs in mines, it wouldn't make any sense to copy a doctor program into a mine, but the physical components were just lying around. That's my least favorite thing about holograms, the sort of pseudo-computer pseudo-physical shtick.

The same reason why regular transporters couldn't be used to create an overwhelming clone army. It's an enormous plot hole that would ruin the whole franchise.

Any reason you couldn't just strap a holo-emitter to an engine, and produce an entire holographic warship?

Encounter with the Borg? Send in the holograms.

>>12727

Just discussed in this fine post >>12712 -- Power management problems, distinct vulnerabilities, and specific restrictions to how much a holographic crew could actually do. The logic of Holograms is pretty wonky due to the poor understanding of computers by the writers, which is why they kept creating these bizarre problems and plotholes in their writing. Like.. Why is the Voyager EMH special? Well, it's not, but they need to say he's special, otherwise it raises the questions I posed: Why not train an entire fleet of holograms when all it seems to take is to leave them running and let them experience a few things, or to tell your computer "hey, make this hologram really smart and give it access to these databases" and you've got a self-aware, sentient, sapient being with self-preservation instincts and everything.

But even when you remove Starfleet from the equation.. Why not holographic houses? Or a holodeck for a house? Why doesn't every house have a holodeck? Holo-addiction is apparently a thing, but this seems to much sillier when you've got holograms that will naturally and frequently outgrow their limits after being run for a short time, developing awareness, feelings, and desires of their own. Since the Federation lets people do whatever they want, why wouldn't people be content to live in simulated paradise for their entire lives?

>>12637

The TNG technical manual discussed it in detail.

>>12735

That would actually solve the whole "how do they divide up space on Earth?" issue. Everyone just gets a holodeck to live in, and has all the simulated space they want within the holodeck.

>>12608

The Doctor can't invent something that already exists and the mobile emitter already exists. The only job left to do is reverse engineer it. Also, if Starfleet can reverse engineer it then its computer technology leaps ahead by several centuries too.

>>12757

Everyone lives inside a stack em and pack em apartment block, Soviet style, but each room is a holodeck. NWO wet dream right there.

>>12760

How horrifying and yet it explains so much

>>12757

>>12760

Honestly doesn't sound that bad. Slap in a replicator, a sonic shower, and some other gadgets, and you can live your ideal life forever.

>>12764

>>12783

>not that bad

Watch the opening to this shit movie trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L96owcBOQhk

>not bad

Hahahaha

>>12783

But if you shit in the holodeck, where does it go?

>>12785

Dematerialised and recycled into the food dispensers.

>>12786

Guess that's what they mean when eating from the replicator is eating crap?

>>12784

It's like vidya with a better interface and graphics, escapism once and for all destroying life in physical reality is such a shitty old meme. People said it about vidya, about comics, television, books. This website is one frequently used for escapism as well.

>>12759

I'm saying it wouldn't be a predestination paradox if the Doctor invented it in the 29th century, then it got taken back to the 24th, then was reverse engineered to be used in the NEW 29th century. Think of it less like the same universe at a different time, and more like a multiverse with different timelines.

The thing with time-travel in Trek is that it only has onotological inertia whenever convenient. Sometimes stuff that happens in the past has an immediate consequence in the future, and sometimes it doesn't.

>>12787

Whatever you eat is composed of atoms or molecules that were once inside of dinosaurs.

>>12784

I read that whole book earlier this year. Spoiler: It's fucking awful. Looks like they had to add and alter a ton of shit just to make it watchable as a movie, but I don't doubt for a second that it's going to rub audiences the wrong way.

Either way, that shit ain't a holodeck house. That's babby's first sci-fi dystopia (muh overcrowding!) buried under about 50 tons of pop culture references and an aggressively poor understanding of how games work. A holodeck house would still require you to have space to move around and physically interact with things, instead of being a headset and some gloves.

>>12824

Looks disgusting.

What about a holodeck prison to simulate a horrific environment?

>>17187

Why do that when you can just inject horrific memories into a man's brain? O'brien truly must suffer.

>>17202

Why inject the memories when you can just marry someone to Keiko?

>>12600 (OP)

>Roddenberry's optimism about the future may have excluded the possibility that everyone would just lock themselves in a chamber consisting of a holodeck array, a replicator, and some basic hygienic equipment?

I think there's a planet like that in the Valerian comics, and it might even be a future version Earth; anyway, there's no reason to assume that there aren't some people on Earth in the 24th century who have indeed decided to live that way. but showing them in the series is pointless, so why would they?

I guarantee that if that tech did exist today in the real world millions would indeed choose to live their whole lives in holodecks, but since the show isn't about future otakus and is instead about space explorers there's no reason to ever show them on screen because they'd be irrelevant to the stories anybody watching gives a shit about. I would assume that if you busted your ass your entire school and career life to get into Starfleet and earn an officer post about an exploratory vessel you aren't the sort that wants to become a holodeck shutin permanently hiding from the real world. That said, exceptions do exist, we all know about Broccoli.

>>12619

>wouldn't it be better to build your prison to be directly controlled by the computer making all those holograms rather than making holograms who have to push buttons to open doors and shit

Why would a hologram need to open doors? Couldn't it just shift from one rooms projector to the next?

>>17414

Don't holograms believe they are real though?

>>17499

For the most part, holograms aren't actually sentient. They don't believe they are anything; they don't have a mind or a consciousness. Some of them buck this trend, but for the most part they're mindless programs --- an advanced version of a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book.

>>17601

Exactly this. I'd imagine that holographic prison guards would act more or less like a videogame NPC than anything else - only responding with prewritten phrases along the lines of 'return to your cell inmate' or 'please remain within the designated areas you have been granted access to'. Most of the code in their programs would have been focused on maintaining order within the prison and restraining prisoners. Then again, why would you need to suppress prison riots? Just have the computer Transport everyone back to their cells.

>>17602

Forget that. Make the PRISON holographic, and put it on the surface of an airless moon. If you leave your cells, you suffocate; if you try to sabotage the security, the walls disappear and you suffocate; if you try to pick up a chair to bash someone over the head or make a shiv to stab someone, all that shit is holographic and the safety protocols are on. The holographic guards don't need to breath and aren't affected by the low gravity so they can patrol around outside the cells in the airless hallways.

The holodeck confuses me. At first, they said it was to train people and then it got electroshocked and then bullets became tangable and they actually almost died. This shocked them. Then characters walked out and took 20 seconds to dissipate.

Then every other episode this is normal. It was always tangable and in-fact dangerous.

>>17628

You could just build a prison on an airless moon (with holographic labourers if we're sticking with the theme of this thread) and make absolutely sure that there is no way that any prisoner (even O'Brien) could build a ship, transporter, or even a basic EVA suit from the materials and components available, go full 20th century tech if needs be. Have automated turrets armed with the heaviest antiship weapons the budget will allow set to shoot down any unauthorised vessels within range (make sure there's an automated hailing program so you don't get some researcher or tourist getting shot down for Enterprise and stuck until enterprise can rescue them), and transport food and clothing directly into each prisoners cell. No need for guards, you could even leave the main airlock unlocked, the prisoners are here and have no way to escape. If they want to go full nightmare inside their prison then that's just a part of their punishment.

>>17630

Also, not everything dissipated. If you got wet on the holodeck the water stayed on you even outside the holodeck, and Moriarty's drawing never dissipated in "Elementary, My Dear Data."

>>17639

So they fucked it up

>>17637

The advent of transporters was always Trek's biggest flaw. The fact that you could "beam" shit around would solve 90% of every fucking problem they had, even if you assume it has a limited range. Thus, nearly every plot device has to be predicated by "such and such has rendered our transporters ineffective" for whatever reason. They basically handed the protagonists a Godmode cheat by default, and so had to temporarily disable it all the damn time.

Why bother shooting anyone? Just beam pockets of burning gas right into their skulls and flash-fry their brains. Or transport them off the ship into outer space. Or transport them an inch to the side but inside-out. Or transport a grenade at their feet. Or just hold them in the transport buffer and erase the pattern. Or decouple the heisenburg compensators and when they come back they're brain-dead. Or beam out their brain and heart and beam them back but switched places. Or beam out a microscopic sliver of their upper spinal cord leaving them paralyzed. Or beam water into their lungs. Or beam the blood out of their entire body.

Or just use a phaser. I dunno. It's simpler that way.

>>17637

A purely holographic prison. Make things like food and air holographic. Eventually the inmate's atoms would be replaced by holographic ones until they became nothing more than holograms themselves.

Spoopy

>>17680

Trek is full of 'wait (tech X) can do (Y), so why do they never do that?'. As you've said the moment one ships shields fail the enemy can just transport everyone off and into hard-vac, taking the emptied enemy ship as a prize and boasting pathetically in the bar back at base. The type 2 hand phaser can, at maximum output, shoot out a beam with about as much energy as a small nuclear bomb - but for some reason firefights with federation personnel take more than long enough for one SF officer to point a phaser and hit the trigger. According to STD there's a way to instantly transport any ship to any point in the universe cheaply and efficiently - but for some reason this isn't a universal drive system by the time TNG comes around (do you think Janeway might have been interested in that tech?). For some reason ships would rather fly around shooting phasers, disruptors, and photons at each other rather than sending in an endless series of replicated drones from the other side of the nearest sun. Nog creates a perfect space mine, but nobody considers giving him a very comfortable posting in Star Fleet R&D. It's almost like the majority of the shows writing staff are complete hacks who just want to check off as many of the 'sci fi cliches' as possible.

>>17681

The prison is endless - as in procedurally generated and infinite. Whenever a prisoner dies they're reconstituted from the original transporter data so that they reenter the prison as they were the day they arrived with no memory of their previous incarnations. Over the years the official population has reached 3 million total but as the prison is co-ed (because it's the federation, of course it is) it is believed that prisoner births have boosted that figure to at least 7 million. Surveillance footage from the prison is shown in Federation schools as a prevention method, the SF officers assigned to that task take bets on how long it will take the first kid to puke - and whether it will be in the 'Gorn torture hole' or the 'Antican forced breeding pit/meat production facility'.

>>17681

One of The Orville's smartest decisions was to eliminate transporters. Honestly, that was the single biggest indicator that the writers sat down and thought about shit instead of making a nostalgia-bait reboot.

>>17707

>One of The Orville's smartest decisions was to eliminate transporters

Agreed, but one of The Orville's worst decisions was making the shuttlecraft a giant silver sneaker with DXRacer chairs.

>>17680

>They basically handed the protagonists a Godmode cheat by default, and so had to temporarily disable it all the damn time.

One of the things early SG1 got right was keeping its transporter-lite system highly limited. They also got it wrong too when they just gave humanity a dickload of freebies.

>>17696

>with no memory of their previous incarnations

Then its pointless, isn't it.

>>17723

I was just thinking about handwringing federation politicians trying to justify the actions to themselves and their constituents. If nothing else do you imagine that prisoners would not find out what happened fairly swiftly after each incarnation? That ups the mindfuck factor, you wake up, having no idea what you did in your last cycle, no idea how many times you've been through this, and no idea who your friends or enemies are, and no idea how much of what people are telling you is true.

>>17708

I thought they looked more like sperm.

What's the bet we are all living on a holodeck right now?

Somebody please explain to me how Picard mowed down those Borg in First Contact.

So, Borg have energy shields, right? And holograms are nothing but photons, right? So, how do they actually become metal projectiles? "Deactivating the security protocol"? I call bullshit on that. If they really wanted to have that scene, they could have Picard finding an old gun in the quarters of somebody who's interested in military history or something.

>>19629

>What's the bet we are all living on a holodeck right now?

<Be me

<Shout out 'Arch'

No effect.

<Shout out 'Computer, end program'

No effect.

Holy shit. If we're in the Holodeck then we're the holograms.

WE'RE THE GODDAMN HOLOGRAMS!!!

>>19661

I assume it's the interaction of the forcefields that causes the damage since that's what turns the hologram into a tangible object.

I think we've seen Borg contained by forcefields, by that token a forcefield being projected at a high velocity should be enough to beat a personal plot-shield.

>>19669

Or the computer's gone insane, our memories have been wiped, and the safeties have been disabled. Again.

>>17722

True. The asgard energy beam in season 10 really fucked up the balance of power and any chance of suspense in SG-1 and Atlantis. I'm glad they didn't use it on SGU (I think there was a line about how the construction of the Hammond wasn't finished yet by the time they were stationed on Icarus).

>>17708

>DXRacer chairs.

I hope they change some design elements on the set between each season. The tables on the mess looked really cheap.

>>19674

OK, which one of you boring fuckers chose this shitty program over Vulcan Love Slave III: Ponn Farther?

Because the federation has no creativity. Why do you think all the holodeck programs are shitty 20th century story knock offs. Why dont we hear about great modern human writers and artists besides Jake. The Federation had no creativity to test the full capabilities of anything they invented. Replicators made stuff, but no one thought to do what the cardassians did and make the replicators make defense auto turrets when ships get taken over? Think about it, first time klingons board, every starfleet room with a replicator, every replimat, instantly becomes a killzone. It takes Nog to think up self replicating mines, and hes a doofus. Hell they never even thought the computer could create sentient self aware programs from a simple command until the moriarty incident.

I mean, look how long it took for an EMH to be made. An unkillable doctor on demand wasnt their first thought for holo emitters, but instead the made elaborate fantasies based off old media should tell the level of unoriginality starfleet shows.

I remember a Voyager episode were everyone was playing a holo simulation of the marquee taking over the ship and raving about how detailed and well thought out the program was, making it funner to play. The twist was Tuvok made it as a training simulation without the intention of it being fun. But that it takes a logical detail minded Vulcan to make an actual good holo program versus the supposed masters of feelings and outside the box thinking humans.

Hell the Next Gen crew was nearly taken over because of how obsessed they were over a virtual boy ball in cup in cup game. I bet if you brought them monopoly you could take over the whole Federation as they all fight amongst themselves.

>>19703

>Why dont we hear about great modern human writers and artists besides Jake

To be fair, culturally speaking, basically every media created in the world since about 1950 has been complete garbage or so highly derivative that it's one shade above exact. Give a listen to some of Holst's work, and then tell me again that John Williams is a genius composer, instead of just a copycat.

Reminds me what the Doctor wrote a "holonovel" that was a parody of real life on Voyager, and it was lauded as some amazing creative work. Who else do they have writing the fucking holonovels that such base retardation is considered good? Of course, looking at the shit Neelix and Naomi wander through, I guess there's the answer.

>>19703

Don't forget the tng episode where something as no brainer as putting a replicator on a remote drone so it could generate what ever tool it needed was seen as a brilliant invention.

>>19703

>Hell the Next Gen crew was nearly taken over because of how obsessed they were over a virtual boy ball in cup in cup game

In their defense they weren't obsessed with it, it hijacked their fucking minds. The ball in a cup part was just a pretense for them to put it on.

>>19727

Honestly, the the crew probably could have resisted the effects easily enough under normal circumstances. The return of Wesley Crusher to the ship just made everyone on board so goddamn depressed that they were willing to accept anything, no matter how mind-numbing, that was an alternative to dealing with that little shit. This also why Wesley wasn't affected by the mind-virus the way the rest of the crew was.

>>19708

>everything since 1950 has been…derivative

Google Christopher Tin.

Also tbf, Bashir does say how for the last 200 years (so since the 2200s) that Earth theatre has been shit and mostly adapting alien works.

>>19703

>Because the federation has no creativity. Why do you think all the holodeck programs are shitty 20th century story knock offs.

This post perfectly encapsulates another thread I considered making.. 400 years in the future and the only things people care about are Shakespeare, classical music, and public domain literature.. I understand why it has to be that way for the sake of the show, and also to give the characters a sense of intellect and cultured enlightenment, but it's still so incredibly boring.

I suppose one could argue that because the Federation already lives a life of adventure, exploration, daring spaceship battles, exotic green women, and so on, that no one would bother using the holodeck for something exciting like present-day video games… but that still doesn't account for why they seem to act like they don't understand the tech they built or the potential they created.

>>19742

>>19811

When you have everything you ever need the culture becomes stagnant and decadent. It's why the only cultures that are seen to produce great works anymore are akin to Klingons and Cardassians; with Klingons producing great musical works and monuments and Cardassians producing great works of art and literature.

>>19684

At least the diaperfags didn't get to choose The Soiled Adventures of Ezri.

>>19946

If we're on the holodeck then every anon could have his very own collection of Ezris to look after and enjoy as he wished. But one of you boring fuckers decided to run "Earth 21st century: RL - un-enhanced edition".

>>19953

No we are running the "What if the Eugenics War didn't Make Earth Great Again Edition"

This shit is worse than real life. What fucking sadist wrote this program?

>>20066

>"What if the Eugenics War didn't Make Earth Great Again Edition"

Technically we have no proof that the Eugenics War has been cancelled, it might simply have been delayed. While that does make the current year rather boring it does have the advantage of delaying our contact with the Vulcans for a while.

>>20143

Nu Eugenics War will probably involve a more old-fashioned method of eugenics.

>>12607

Was that a joke?

>>20171

No that was STD

>>20143

Well, Eugenics Wars or not, we're still on track for a first warp test flight by 2063. I'm waiting for when Elon Musk legally changes his name to Zefram Cochrane, then the pieces will begin to fall into place.

>>20248

The elite told us in First Contact what will happen. Us plebs will get nuked in WWIII while they go underground. They send one of their boys up to the surface to build the warp drive that was invented decades ago and like magic, a new era in humanity is achieved and the globalist masonic government is born.

>>20248

>Elon "I am totally smart guize by taking credit for others work" Musk inventing anything

>>20251

>>20291

>>20294

All we have from old Zef is his word that he invented the fucking, thing, you know. Did you really believe that some old fart that's drunk off his ass half the time and is afraid of airplanes actually invented something? He probably found a crashed ship out in the woods while pissing on a tree in the depths of another hangover, and just copied it.

>>12600 (OP)

The most valuable part of the holodeck isnt the holograms, its the interpretive processing power and how intuitive designing and constructing scenarios are. Imagine just speaking Nd hand molding your ideas into a video game. Infinite variety.

Game devs and pubs just die.

>>20331

>It was Garak who went back in time to uplift humanity, so he'd get to maybe romance a cute human guy in his lifetime

>>20447

this

>>20450

We know from Enterprise that the Vulcans have had a presence on Earth since the 1950's. They gave us fucking Velcro for crying out loud.

>>20321

There’s holonovel writers. Crafting an immersive 3d world is probably somewhat difficult. Consider that anybody can have access to paint brushes and a canvas but not everybody can produce art someone else would buy. Then again the Federation has no money so who the fuck knows.

>>20457

The Federation is run like Reddit, upboats and likes. That is your currency.

>>20456

>The Vulcans thought they had found their handy fighting dog.

>They carefully controlled our technology, holding us back *just enough* to make sure we would never threaten them.

>They threw us at the Klingons.

>The Klingons never knew what hit them.

>There was just one thing that the Vulcans didn't, indeed couldn't, account for.

>There was no way that they could ever have anticipated the cultural, political, military, and sociological impact of their discovery …

>Big

>Human

>Cock

>>20459

you stole that from an orville episode.

>>20478

I know we'll never see it (censorship laws would block it even if the studios weren't hyper-cucks) but the idea of a Star Trek focused around humanity unleashing a wave of /d/egeneracy upon the Alpha Quadrant is beautiful.

>>20481

There is actually funny enough some writefaggotry about that. I think it's in the lewd trek fiction thread.

>>20459

Federation is not like Reddit - You don't get to decide on anything.

>>20522

except follow the greater good which I guess means you are on to something fucking clicked new reply too early like a retarded newfag

>>20481

Really, humanity is the simplest species in the universe. Their entire thought process, motivations, and civilization can be whittled down to three questions they ask upon encountering something new:

1) Can I fuck it? If yes, do so. If no:

2) Can I eat it? If yes, do so. If no:

3) Can I kill/destroy it? If yes, do so. If no, do it anyway.

>>12604

Yup, mobile emitters were invented by reverse engineering mobile emitters. I know where I came from, but what about all you zombies?

>>12604

It's a stable time loop, similar to how time-travel worked in Time's Arrow. Also known as the "static timeline" model, which is objectively the best kind of time-travel in sci fi because its protected against paradox bullshit, and is theoretically possible under the assumptions of formal logic. It's also possible under our understanding of dimensional physics (assuming you found a way to get around relativity keeping time travel from happening), because any particle that undergoes a stable time loop is following a Feynman path that you can trace without breaking.

>>20447

>Every piece of integral tech on Feddy ships was "invented" by way of time paradox fuckery

This would seem to explain why Starfleet can stock their ships with standard issue holodecks, replicators, transports, and warp drive engines, but seemingly can't train or write a manual for the damned things to stop them from doing awful things to the crew who don't entirely understand how to use them.

>Here's an engine that can make you go really really fast!…

>and if you're not careful and calibrate it long, it will make you go so fucking fast, you'll either travel through time, erase yourselves from history, or travel to the other end of the universe to a realm of pure imagination.

>now go fly around in space for a few years and tell us what happens!

>>20615

My favorite still has to be fucking Moriarty. As good as that episode is the premise is ridiculous.

>Hey, has anyone ever told the computer to make an intelligent, self-aware being?

>You know, I don't think they have. Let's try it and see what happens.

This is probably the origin story of the EMH as well. They either mindraped Moriarty while the Enterprise was docked for maintenance or they just did the same exact thing:

>Computer, construct a doctor capable of abstract thought and programmed with all of the medical knowledge available in the Starfleet databanks.

>>20553

Oh you're right. In a universe with millions of intelligent species one or two tried something and it failed so the rest of us better not try the same ever.

>>20618

Somewhere out there is a Star Fleet research ship, crewed by a single 23rd century NEET, and a crew of hundreds of self aware, adorable, holographic anime girls who have all been programmed to be beautifully shy but madly in love with Capt. 'notice me' Senpai.

>>20620

As history proves just wait till something goes horribly wrong and all the holographic anime girls turn into Yanderes who attempt to slaughter each other and anyone who comes near the ship while taking turns pegging the Captain.

>>20622

We have the episode, now we just need a series.

>>20622

>Not coding them to be exclusively cute and adorable

>Not setting the Yandere probability variable in their code to '0'.

You're the same engineer who built every computer console in Star Fleet with a kilo of C4 in it, aren't you.

>>20633

>Not setting the Yandere probability variable in their code to '0'.

<Having a Yandere probability variable at all.

>>20640

It's Star-Trek, the computers can't be trusted if left unattended. As such setting the variable to 0 is the safest course as it makes sure that the computer won't add it at a higher value for any reason.

>>20639

Reminder that the Hawkman is dead now.

>>20644

>for certain things give me old fashioned physical buttons and switches

I've been playing flight simulators for decades. First time I ever saw a simulated plane with a "glass cockpit" I noped the fuck right out of there. They replaced the airspeed and altimeter gauges with scrolling ribbons. You can't even tell what the fuck is going on; it's like trying to use a digital watch that only displays the hour and minute to time a race to the second.

Good thing the fucking planes fly themselves, because the "modern" instruments are useless to a human pilot.

>>20740

>First time I ever saw a simulated plane with a "glass cockpit" I noped the fuck right out of there. They replaced the airspeed and altimeter gauges with scrolling ribbons. You can't even tell what the fuck is going on; it's like trying to use a digital watch that only displays the hour and minute to time a race to the second.

>Good thing the fucking planes fly themselves, because the "modern" instruments are useless to a human pilot.

I'm only going by my very limited experience here, the advantage of a glass cockpit that I heard is in theory it can be configured and tailored more easily vs physical gauges and displays. Another is how sleek and supposedly easier to read it is, that part as you mention seems to be debatable.

For the most part though I see the "see how sleek this fucking thing looks, you can get bitches extra wet when you show them not only your plane but how Iphone looking your cockpit display is, if you knowhat-I'msayinudgenudgewinkwink" part being pitched.

>>20792

>He's only watched TNG

Wow, what a gay.

>>20792

Watch TOS then kill yourself. I recommend a KSG to the forehead. It's super effective.

>>20767

>it can be configured and tailored more easily vs physical gauges and displays

That's exactly what it is. It's a cost-saving's measure. So Boeing or Airbus or whoever only needs to buy a single display model, and then just program it depending which airplane they put it into. They don't give a fuck whether it is worse at quickly and instinctively providing information to the pilot.

>>12600 (OP)

deck

Why do you have to get a real costume to wear into the holodeck? Why can't you have a holographic outfit? Seems like it would save a lot of time and hassle- or is this just makework for the ships tailor?

>>21347

It might be makework for the tailor, or it might just be because TNG wasn't ready to have the cast walk into the holodeck naked before the clothing appeared on them

>>21347

Real question is if you get changed on the holodeck and then leave do you get to keep your clothes or do you leave naked? What happens to the clothes you leave behind?

What about holographic food and drink (and chems)

If you go to vics and chug a bunch of drinks will you get buzzed? If so is it because the program provides actual beverages in a Holographic glass

Or is it holobooze? If the latter what happens when you leave the suite? Buzz disappears? What about the holographic stuff in your belly/blood… are there physiological effects from having the forcefield release those photons in your various bodily systems?

>>21347

Voyager had some episode where Seven was using the deck to practice romance and she was having outfits holographically projected. My guess is that they couldn't come up with a reliable way in the TNG era to make that video editing effect transition nicely, so they just had their actors wear their costumes before the entered the holodeck to work around that. Also, it gave them the opportunity to occasionally have the crew walking the halls of the Enterprise in period costumes, which is an amusing juxtaposition.

Also from Voyager, the EMH created a rig that projected the mind of a person into a fully holographic entity. Seems like a really easy way to circumvent the dangers of being grievously hurt by the holodeck's absurd safety protocols that short circuit at the drop of a hat. Would also allow holographic outfits and allow people to assume holographic identities to better suit the roles they were playing… But they just kind of tossed that idea aside after the episode ended.

>>21433

>the EMH created a rig that projected the mind of a person into a fully holographic entity

>Perfect holographic telepresence

Just equip them with the EMHs Mobile Emitters and you no longer need to worry about losing redshirts (or anyone more important) on away missions, or reactor containment failures, or boarding actions, or anything except the complete destruction of the secure capsules at the heart of the ship where the holoprojected crewmen are keeping their meat bodies.

>>21430

If I remember correctly Vic mentioned in an episode that its synthehol. Also in one episode of ds9 Sisko was taking Keira(?), to a baseball game as a way to bond and told her to get the hot dogs from quark beforehand. So presumbly any food/drinks are normally replicated beforehand and brought into the holodeck. I would presume the difference bettween a hologram and replicated food is that the food has more solid materials making it, protein molecules and such that have been arranged into a specific pattern. While most holograms are a form of hard light projections, so its like eating light if you eat or drink a hologram. Thats why synthehol might work as a holographic drink, since its really supposed to just be something you sip, not get you buzzed or drunk, not even taste probably. What is an interesting question, is how does our bodies react to ingestion of light/energy, or does the holo emitters just stops projecting the light after it enters the body.

>>21470

Well if it IS synthehol that would mean it is real matter. They serve that shit in 10fwd no holo emitters there- but it is easily replicated. Perhaps there is a diplomat tie in some where that allows for beverages and food to be served.

If that's the case maybe quark served real Franks not replicated and Ben preferred the taste of a genuine Hebrew national.

Now I can't remember the dialogue but the dinner Odo arranged in vic' s for holo Keira <that's was actually real Keira via a scheme by vic> I want to say was confirmed to be unreal food- now he doesn't eat and there wouldn't be a reason to prep real food for a hologirl so maybe this was by design to keep quark out of the loop… no real confirmation so far one way or the other I guess-

But I would say the synthehol comment would suggest replicated food stuffs being available on demand on the holodeck. Probably a setting I a .conf file

REPLO= TRUE

Or someshit. I bet broccoli knows.

>>21476

I always assumed that the holodecks had mini-replicators built into their system for food and the like. It also explains why in Season 1 of TNG, Wesley came out of the holodeck wet after falling into that pond, and why a holo-snowball flying out of the holodeck door hit Picard and didn't vanish as soon as it left the room.

>>21478

Ah yes. That makes sense. Even if it IS only water it would make sense to stay hydrated while doing worf's excersise programs…

Not to mention special applications like secretly relocating villagers without their knowledge…

Let's not forget that while the holodeck is "just light and forcefields," those lights and forcefields extend all the way to the atomic, if not subatomic level.in their detail. In Voyager, the doctor makes a pair of fully functioning holographic lungs for neelix. In the TNG rashomon episode where riker is accused of murder, data recreates the laboratory on the holodeck, and the experimental apparatus that does the weird exotic energy bullshit works just the same as the real one, proving rikers innocence. The holodeck may be light and forcefields, but they are intricate and detailed enough to function the same as reality on the deepest levels.

>>21478

Season 1 TNG also off-handedly mentions that the Holodecks use patterns from the transporter to recreate real matter. I think later, they use a similar line saying they can use a stored pattern to create a tree to blow up in front of the Crystal Entity in the first Lore episode.

It's one of those weird details that they just fudged out entirely later on, once the writers had a slightly better grasp of how theoretical technology like that should work.

>>21470

As an aside, "holographic bullets" shouldn't be able to kill because as soon as they pierce the skin, the flesh would block line-of-sight of the holoprojectors and the bullets would cease to exist. You'd end up with really bad welts, but no penetration more than a couple millimeters.

>>21493

When they lose coherency after passing out of LOS from the projector that energy has to go somewhere, not just the light but the forcefields they use to simulate solid matter. That would result in an explosion happening either just under, or in the middle of your skin. Granted it's not a huge forcefield but the explosion doesn't need to be that big to kill a humanoid. I can't find a hard and fast Megajoule rating Federation shielding, but going by the best estimates I could find from the TNG era a forcefield the size of a bullet would hold an equivalent of at least a few grams of TNT, if not more.

>>21478

To be fair they have never been consistent with how holokeks work.

>>21507

That would produce patterns inconsistent with bullet wounds, though. Also, if holographic bullets pack the punch of a small explosive, it raises (once again) the question of why the fuck they never used holographic weapons against the Borg (or, really, at all). You don't need anything fancy like the Doctor's mobile emitter; you just need to install holoprojectors in places OTHER than the holodeck.

>>21645

True. As has been pointed out in this (and other) threads Star Trek struggles to keep consistency and continuity with its tech even in the same series. To be entirely fair to the writers though, no matter how autistic they are they don't have as long as we do to look through the episode and ask why things happen the way they do rather than the way that makes sense.

>>21691

Which all boils down to the age old question of "If you shit in the holodeck, where does it go?"

>>21691

Had they kept things consistent or developed things based off creations made as plotpoints in previous episodes, things would break less, the characters would have more options to get out of trouble, and the tension would be far lower. Ultimately, many things that happen in every series happen the way they do because if they didn't, there would be no plot. It's why Troi was conveniently absent during the few episodes that would have been resolved immediately if the empath was around to say, "this man is full of shit, Captain."

>>21753

Well, I think you simply just don't shit in the holodeck to avoid that problem, but it's nothing the transporter and replicator system couldn't take care of.

>>21753

>"Nog! Clean up in Holosuite 2!"

>>21764

True, the writers have to actually make plots out of this stuff, and you can only pull the "A [fractal technobabble] energy field has put the [plot resolving tech] on the blink, again, Captain" move before it gets stale.

>>21753

I'm sure it's just broken down into energy and "recycled" as waste food is in replicators. In fact, this does sorta solve the problem of where the fuck the energy to power replicators comes from (because you'd need hydrogen-bomb levels of energy to produce even a tiny cup of coffee from thin air); they just recycle everyone's shit.

>>12600 (OP)

>but why is holographic technology not rightfully regarded as perhaps the most important, revolutionary advancement of the 24th century?

The impression I get from the show is that the people using this tech didn't quite realize what it's capabilities and potential were initially…which is absurd. but hey TV.

>>21829

>the people using this tech didn't quite realize what it's capabilities and potential were

Doesn't that describe pretty much 90% of the shit in star trek?

>>21870

>Doesn't that describe pretty much 90% of the shit in star trek?

Yeah maybe.

I thought about this today when I rewatched that TNG ep in which the Ferengi return the Stargazer..

How is it that an organization with a fleet of FTL starships that often uses them in battle has never conceived of the "Picard Maneuver" until 300 years after already having warp drive?

>>21829

It could be seen as less absurd if you see the Federation as decadent harlots, that learn very little on their own and rely on the computers to do everything for them. Hell, even in Kirk's era, when they found Charlie X, they weren't too skeptical of the notion that his crashed ship's computer raised him, fed him, and clothed him. Sure, it ended up being false in the end but until that was revealed everyone thought it was a plausible explanation.

>>21884

The Picard Maneuver only works if the other guy doesn't have faster-than-light sensors. Which everyone usually does.

>>21884

>Picard manoeuvre not being something you learn in 2nd year at the Academy

>Miniaturised replicators not used for rations on away missions - as much as Chief fucking loves his emergency rations this never made sense to me

>I suppose that I can understand why there were no drones used on the shows, considering their age, but it's not like that tech came out of nowhere

>Firefights take longer than switching to the max setting on your phaser and burning everything in front of you

>The computer does everything, except a lot of the things that it would excel at - like ship command, or automated mining, or electronic warfare

>Why wasn't voyager mass replicating the mobile emitter and starting to add holographic crewmen? You'd think that in their situation every casualty becomes an irreplaceable loss, and having crewmen who don't need supplies, or sleep, or oxygen would be a colossal advantage for them.

I think it was probably just writers who didn't have the time (or autism) to look through it in as much detail as we can here, after a few years to watch and rewatch the episodes. Solving problems would also remove a lot of the tension from the stories.

>>21890

Or are retarded.

>>21892

>I think it was probably just writers who didn't have the time (or autism) to look through it in as much detail as we can here

The other thing to consider is just how unique Star Trek was. TOS is pretty clunky in a lot of ways, but it was the first time a show like that had ever been made on that scale. TNG, VOY, and DS9 took those ideas further into new territory. They were pioneering a style of fiction and writing that they had very little material to pull from, more or less.

At this point, pointing out these inconsistencies isn't so much about poking holes in the writing. It's about asking what could have been or what Star Trek might look like if all these technologies and ideas were explored and developed to their logical conclusions. Could you have fully holographic crews? Could they make ships with holographic weaponry? Could they make holographic organs and then slap a mobile emitter on someone, making them a human/photonic hybrid? It's curiosity that drives us to nitpick.

>>21828

>smug shit eating liberals in space

>>21892

They once tried to create a new Doctor, and even just replicating his doctoring abilities proved beyond them. I'd imagine making a holographic person who isn't just a boring character in an Irish fantasy town and is actually functional and practical is very fucking hard.

Also, Rom's self-replicating mines were about half a millimeter from invoking von Neumann probes, which would have made THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE irrelevant.

>>22054

Except there was never any mention of them replicating beyond their original parameters. They appear to have been (very well) programmed to keep to one position and a defined number of units. Or is this just 'MUH GRAY GOO!!!' meme being pushed on anything self-replicating?

>>22022

Underrated post.

>>22054

Harry and Tom couldn't program a replacement for the EMH for comedic reasons, but later the EMH himself makes a hologram Xenobiologist with a few computer commands as usual. If left running like the EMH, I'm sure he'd develop a personality and more human-like tendencies, just as the EMH did, but they shut him down for the crimes of the person he was modeled after. Likewise, Tom creates an entire village of holo-characters who end up being quasi-self-aware, with one even being capable of perceiving things outside the holodeck, even though that shouldn't have been possible. Plus there's that whole issue with Moriarty on the Enterprise which happened with a single command.

Point is, it's established to be far easier to make the holodeck self-aware and super intelligent, but yet again, they can't write an engaging script if everything is resolved with "Let's go to the holodeck!"

>>22066

It does beg the question of why the Doctor couldn't just take whatever knowledge said exobiologist had and implant it into his own memories, like was done with all the other thousands of other doctors or whatever, rather than make a new hologram.

>>22066

>>22070

They should not have let the ship's computer make a sentinent hologram, that was such a stupid decision. "Computer. please create a technological singularity and become self-aware" - we are supposed a basic bitch computer which doesn't seem that much different in principle from our current computers can do this and there has been no incidents whatsoever?

>>22094

are we supposed to believe*

>>22022

I just wanted to come in and say good post.

>>22094

I felt like the computer should have started calling the whole crew out for being retarded cunts at times.

>>12600 (OP)

>one poorly worded computer command is all it takes to give a holographic character self-awareness and genius-level intellect

That's because it's linked to the ships computer, which is a semi-sentient library of all human knowledge.

>starfleet wikipedia article on an individual,

That contains medical data, every report they wrote, and every report anyone wrote about them.

There's no doubt that STD would be immensly better if it focused on "photonics" as a plot point, instead of fungus based space travel.

>>12619

The idea is that you don't need a robot, if you have a force field emitter everything can be done by the computer using force fields to manipulate the physical. This would be pretty fucking useful since they could literally build millions of ships without any effort.

>>24200

>There's no doubt that STD would be immensly better if it focused on "photonics" as a plot point, instead of fungus based space travel.

On that topic, imagine how fun a movie would be about a ship made completely out of holograms.

I mean everything but the warp core, impulse engines, computer, and holoemitters would be made of forcefields.

There have already been a few hologram based ships in the series, but all of those have been controlled by one massive hologram generator. Imagine a photonic ship which has the doctors miniaturized emitter on every single bulkhead, so even if one loses power it won't cause significant decompression.

Such a ship would be much lighter and more agile, and would also be able to survive hostile environments like nebula without hull damage - because the hull is photonic.

Pretty fucking cool no?

STD is such a piece of shit.

>>17639

>If you got wet on the holodeck the water stayed on you even outside the holodeck, and Moriarty's drawing never dissipated in "Elementary, My Dear Data."

That's called "writers fucked up and forgot".

Your second example, the entire episode, and it's sequel is about wanting to be real yet it being impossible to make holo-matter real.

>>17696

>According to STD there's a way to instantly transport any ship to any point in the universe cheaply and efficiently

wat

>>24210

Oh, but it gets better. The fuckyouiwannateleport-drive is powered by magic mushrooms, and the navigator is a mutant water bear that's grown to monstrous proportions. Oh yeah, and the whole ship turns into a fidget spinner whenever it's time to teleport.

>>24211

That was the episode I quit watching on. I think the writers were given a copy of the script for the Warp 10 fuckery in Threshold, and told "make it like this, but not as bad", but the person who wrote the note had bad penmanship so they interpreted it as "…but even more bad", because that's precisely what the fuck they did. It was fucking painful to watch.

>>24210

Mhm. Then for some reason they included a giant space tardigrade that can somehow transport itself to anywhere from anywhere instantly because 'muh mycelial network brah'. To navigate this beyond-ultra-drive you need to plug a big angry, six legged, gribbly into the ships computer (in a cell filled with low end particle effects). They actually made RL tardigrades noticeably less awesome by association, which is hard fucking work.

>>24244

It's a modern science show, that only references science instead of being science. Just like Big Bang Theory. They insert these little tidbits in there for no other reason than so the mildly-above-average-intelligence target audience thinks they must be really smart. They think, "Oh, tardigrades; I've heard of those! Oh yes, a network of mycelium; I've heard of that!" It's nothing more than mentally masturbating the viewer who is just smart enough to know what they're talking about, but not smart enough to know that it's complete nonsense. You could call it Nu Treknobabble, where the purpose isn't worldbuilding, but psychological manipulation.

>>24235

>pilot goes really really fast

>the pilot "evolves" into a horny amphibian

>kidnaps and rapes the captain

>impregnated, the captain shits some eggs in a puddle

>they leave

>no one picks up the eggs from the puddle, which are their fucking children

>the pilot and captain leave their children in the delta quadrant

>somehow confabulon radiation brings them back

>no one ever speaks of the fact that the pilot and captain fucked each other again

It's like an episode of ricky and morty.

That episode was so fucking retarded it made me quit watching star trek for five years. All star trek, even ds9 seemed to be garbage just from that one voyager episode.

>>24306

>Well … surely at least some of them started out as chicks, right?

And at some point in the past even the worst thot was an innocent virgin. Doesn't change what they are now.

>>24307

I wasn't planning on settling down with a slaaneshi whore, I don't need pure and virtuous from them considering the low average lifespan of new cultists.

>>24304

>>24298

Meh I've worked with worse, does that slaneesh slut at least have a feminine benis? :^)

>>24310

Knowing Slaanesh it's probably about 5 feet long, prehensile, and barbed; it might occasionally ejaculate hallucinogens as well.

>>12600 (OP)

>Tell me, is there a canon excuse why this technology wasn't implemented everywhere?

should i list every episode that the holodeck almost got the ship and/or station destroyed?

>>24322

Would that list include all the incidents where the holodeck threatened the life/lives of the crew using them rather than also threatening the ship?

>>24322

That begs the question of why these things end up inside "military" vessels though. Imagine if every major vessel in the USN had a button on it which gave you a minor orgasm every time you pressed it but had a .001% chance of setting off a fusion bomb.Sure it's rare, but people are going to press the orgasm button so often it's bound to happen eventually.

>>24298

Where does she hide her penis?

>>24343

inside you