/strek/ - Star Trek ★

>>12510

>martok becoming chancellor still makes no sense to me

Worf was of Martok’s house and Martok was its head, so my assumption is that he was allowed to fight to make the head of his household the Chancellor. It seems very Klingon-y to respect the judgement of a warrior.

>>12510

fucken Nog

Holy fucking shit P.O. that episode pissed me off.

All they HAD to do was lock that cunt in the box and beam her 200 miles away give the settlers a compass bearing of a few degrees and fly the fuck out. The true believers would die on their futile quest to save her and the ones that remained could be picked up in a month when they've given up on their shitty system.

The fact that miles didn't insta phasor her in the tits on maximum stun for 45 seconds really ticked me off as well. It was pretty hardcore when sisko climbed back into the box though. I think that the whole episode was an excuse for that scene to develop The Sisko's character

off a few degrees damnit

>>12510

Rom was made Nagus not Nog, and Zek had neutered the position before picking Rom anyway by introducing a congress that the Nagus had to go through in order to get laws passed.

In STO Nog gets to borrow his father's Nagus staff and bully other Ferengi with it if they refuse to cooperate.

>>12521

I think that whole episode was an excuse to rag on religion.

>>12524

Hardly; the writer said the episode was inspired by the Khmer Rouge.

And Behr and director both meant for the bitch to be portrayed more positively than she ended up, and said that "her motives were right-thinking".

>>12530

>Behr supports Khmer Rouge

>Behr wears glasses

>Khmer Rouge killed people wearing glasses

Cucks are funny

>>12550

MOOOOOOOOOOOGY!

>>12509 (OP)

Even if I was completely happy in the little idyllic homesteading community, I'd still throw that bitch in the hotbox until she died. She lied to everyone, caused suffering and misery, and forced her idiotic ideals on everyone around her because she was a nutcase with no one who would follow her anyways. Worse still, she forced herself into the leadership position where she actively sabotaged and harmed people within her community for the sake of maintaining power and authority over them. She doesn't deserve to lead and she doesn't deserve to live.

>>12558

According to memory alpha, she was arrested and taken to stand trial for what she did.

>>12530

>>12533

Every thing I hear about that man makes me hate him a little more.

>>12560

Search for a picture of him and you’ll max out.

>>12509 (OP)

Even if we accept that all of them felt that their lives had been changed for the better in her little luddite community, you'd have thought some of them would have objected to her forcing them into her utopia. About having to starve and die from simple infections and insect bites because "antibiotics are the devils work" or because they had families before they crashed there.

You'd have thought some of them might have wanted a source of food that doesn't leave them starving regularly, access to some of the decadent luxuries that evil technology allows for, like soap, a washing machine that means it doesn't take half a day's worth of hard physical labour to do the laundry, decent dental healthcare considering all the fruits they eat, most of which are likely acidic and full of sugar, they are going to need that, 10 years just isn't long enough for this to have become a huge problem, but I bet a dentist would have his work cut out for him if he gave them all checkups or even get a legal code that doesn't involve "2 days in the sweatbox for taking a candle" I'm surprised he didn't object to getting the sweatbox, most likely several times, because having functioning source of electric lights was "inconvenient" for her social utopia

But most of all, what surprises me, is that none of the survivors from the original crash apparently tried her little cult when she began trying to brainwash everyone. Noone thought of trying to bring a transmitter from the ship to somewhere away from those rocks in the river they thought was fucking with the tech. Hell, their engineers didn't even try to set up kiln to make iron or salvage metal from the ship to build a steam engine to make life easier in the colony.

>>12560

Mind you, he's also a big part of why DS9 was so good.

The entirety of Muh Sphess Jebus. All of it.

The only redeeming factor was Gul Dukat as a Cult Leader on an abandoned station. That part was glorious and predictable.

>>12510

>nog has absolutely no reason to be grand nagus.

The whole thing not ending in a mass lynching with the Nagus left to hang in a public square and most involved brutally murdered was dumb.

That culture had managed to survive and thrive for 10,000 years nearly uninterrupted and into the stars. It was working fine.

>>12560

>>12579

Just to clear up an apparent misunderstanding:

According to memory alpha it was Jim Trombetta, one of the 2 writers of the episode who did the "khmer rouge philosophy of antitechnology" thing.

Behr was just the producer.

>>12582

Behr got assmad about Dukat being three dimensional though. He also wiped the Maquis out because he got sick of them.

>>12584

We're not saying he didn't have foibles. Just that he deserves credit for the good stuff.

>Maquis

Honestly, you could have seen their destruction-by-Cardassia a light-year away.

>>12584

>>12586

They got sick of the Maquis immediately after introducing them which is sad, cause they could have been a truly interesting arc.

>>12590

How would you have extended that arc?

>>12621

The arc with them is conflict with the Federation and its ideals vs reality on a frontier.

Section 31 was introduced into the story to do what the Maquis were doing - the ‘harsh’ side of the Federation that bends rules to win. It’s far less jarring to the lore to have Maquis-sympathizing scientists develop shit like the Founder genophage then claim there was a secret intelligence agency all along that never showed up for shit like V’ger or the Borg.

>>12553

>The niggerbox

wew

>>12509 (OP)

It was a Season 2 Episode. I think enough said?

>>12524

I hadn't thought of that it seemed more like some kindof failed political statement but i could see how that witch could have been ttyl g to set herself up to develop into some kind of religious icon if the colony miraculously survived a few hundred or thousand years.

Either way fuck that cunt hope she dies in prison.

>>12625

>It’s far less jarring to the lore to have Maquis-sympathizing scientists develop shit like the Founder genophage then claim there was a secret intelligence agency all along that never showed up for shit like V’ger or the Borg

This is very applicable. Where the hell did this Section 31 come from all of a sudden when by the mid-DS9 era (and post-ENT) you've had nearly a dozen direct threats to the core worlds of the Federation? And they only just show up during the Dominion War? What the hell?

Meanwhile you have an outfit of obstinately deniable assets who are already using NBC weapons and black ops on the spoonheads. With the Obsidian Order gone as well, they have free reign to do whatever they want in Cardie territory. You could have had Sisko coming to bat for them more and more after the initial first bout or two with Eddy. Bashir getting progressively pissed at Sisko for abandoning the ideals of the Federation by enlisting partisans during the middle of a war. You could have had a variation of the Quark gun running story where Sisko uses the situation to get arms to the Maquis. You could have had an O'Brien-Maquis small unit combat story. The possibilities are endless.

>>12554

i'd like to know just how o'brien knocked that guy out instantly and painlessly with a light blow

>>14010

Something you will never understand. Precision.

>>12580

As fun as it was, it also kind of ruined Dukat as a character. He had some actual depth to him before, that arc turned him into a Saturday-morning-cartoon villain that tried to summon demons in his quest for ULTIMATE POWAH

>>14051

I don't know where the reddit spacing came from. Wasn't like that when I typed it. Something screwy must've happened in the copy+paste.

>>14052

Yeah. Copying and pasting automatically reddit spaces newlines.

Just watched this episode, and came here irritated, then relieved to see someone else hated it. Wanted to see that new age hippy cunt dictator dead.

>>14057

I'm pretty sure everyone here on /strek/ hates it. They cut those socialist anarcho-primitivists way too much slack.

>>14058

It wouldn't have been nearly as bad if everyone hadn't decided the cunt dindu nuffin and decided to stay in their shitty utopia where people die of regular diseases.

>Hey Quark, turns out you were right about your mother being a dangerous radical who took advantage of a lonely, senile old man to enact the deliberate and intentional destruction of Ferengi civilization before passing the reins of power to her henpecked fop of a son

>You paranoid bigot ;^)

>>14092

When I watched this arc when I grew older it angered me so much. Quark did nothing wrong.

>>14152

>to a "minimum security penal colony in New Zealand" for two years

>Sent to New Zealand

The death sentence would have been more humane.

>>14152

You would think a DOCTOR of all people would realize that just because someone fucked with his genes it didn't change "who he is" as a person, because a person is not 100% as result of their genetics.

I really wish this had been explored in more detail, though. The reason it's illegal is said to be because they don't want to create another Khan. But the reason Khan was dangerous was because he gathered followers and started wars to genocide people; as Hitler and others have proven, one doesn't need to be a genetically-engineered badass to do such a thing. Really, Khan wasn't all that superhuman to begin with. Genetic engineering doesn't make GODS; it makes geniuses at around the highest level of human capabilities, but that don't exceed them. Really, the thing with Khan was more of a "racial bias" parable using a sci-fi premise of "genetic engineering" aka "superior genetics" making him believe he was hot shit because of the way he was born, when in reality he was kind of a dumbass who mistook raw intelligence for capability, in lieu of experience and lateral-thinking. In the end, he wasn't that superior at all.

The proof in this is that nobody ever so much as suspected Bashir was superhuman, just talented. Aside from being a bit of a young prodigy and that bullshit perfect-at-throwing-darts thing, he was no better than anyone else.

No, I'm convinced that the real reason the Federation made it illegal is because the Federation is founded upon equality of all. You can't have a real Democracy if some people are demonstratively better than average, even if it's only a little. It threatens their entire way of being. Now, they could have made this a big deal. They could have done it like how they went back to Data's status as a sentient being again and again in TNG, revealing the higher-ups want to go full Harrison Bergeron on the Federation and ensure everyone is equal whether they are or not. But they didn't. They just quietly shelved the entire concept and never revisited it or mentioned it. That's the "odd ending" part.

>>14158

>The proof in this is that nobody ever so much as suspected Bashir was superhuman, just talented. Aside from being a bit of a young prodigy and that bullshit perfect-at-throwing-darts

Iirc, didn't he hold back quite a bit in displaying his "full power level", as well didn't the story imply that Julian was below average before the alteration. Flowers for Algernon level of below average?

>>14164

Before he was altered, Julian was dumb, ugly, and weak. Just a real useless piece of shit.

>>14158

An intellectually honest critique of Federation morality is getting too close to bad goy territory for even DS9.

>>14158

> They could have done it like how they went back to Data's status as a sentient being again and again in TNG, revealing the higher-ups want to go full Harrison Bergeron on the Federation and ensure everyone is equal whether they are or not. But they didn't. They just quietly shelved the entire concept and never revisited it or mentioned it.

They did revisit it once; I just finished watching that episode with all the genemodded autists who predicted the Feds would lose to the Dominion.

The reasoning in that episode was even more retarded. The claim then was that genemodded people shouldn't be allowed in certain jobs because unmodified people couldn't compete - definitely hints of Harrison Bergeron, as you point out - but the specific problem they said is that it would make parents feel pressured to have their own children improved. Think about that for a minute.

>Federation economics means "too poor to afford gene modding" is barely a concern

>the fuckups were said to only be fuckups because their parents went to shitty doctors, not because the procedure is inherently dangerous

>people only go to shitty doctors for it because it's black market and unregulated

>if it were legal anyone and everyone who wanted to would be able to get the improvements safely, with no side effects

>there is literally no reason not to get the improvements except personal philosophical objections

>the Feddies ban an objectively beneficial, and potentially lifesaving procedure, because it would be unfair to those who CHOOSE not to undergo it.

>>14181

>They did revisit it once; I just finished watching that episode with all the genemodded autists who predicted the Feds would lose to the Dominion.

Weren't they also wrong in their prediction, even with their superautism they could not predict every single factor. At least that's how the episode portrayed it and you just watched it more recently than I did.

>>14181

If the Federation really wanted to make everyone equal, it would subject everyone to gene therapy so everyone is a super genius who can play darts really well.

>>14182

Basically, yes. Their methods were statistical, so they couldn't account for individual actions. They tried to betray the Federation and give crucial intelligence to the Dominion, which they predicted would dramatically alter the outcome of the war. Yet they failed to notice that if they could change the result so much, then surely other individuals could.

>>14184

>everyone is a super genius who can play darts really well.

The Borg don't stand a chance.

Now I'm picturing Borg drones getting mowed down by perfectly-aimed volleys of pub darts every time they beam into a Federation installation, as autistic security officers all stand awkwardly hunched over, avoiding eye contact and staring off into the distance, compulsively fiddling with their personal miniature dart replicators.

>>14164

They said he was slow for a kindergarten-age kid. He said stuff like he recalled just not understanding some shit that other kids did. Maybe he was IQ 80 or something, but certainly not retard-level. Maybe would have ended up an engineer instead of a doctor.

>>14194

The darts are thrown with such power and precision that they pass through the Borg shields by being vibrating at the exact frequency to match their modulation. It only takes one dart because they can pinpoint the drone's central processor. They stay behind cover and bounce the darts off of the walls and ceiling, or throw one dart and then use another to deflect it in a different direction. After killing the target, the drone falls over in a prescribed manner, and the dart is knocked loose by the impact, flying and hitting the bullseye of a nearby dartboard.

Then one guy figured out how to extend the dart's range through constructive interference by harmonizing its vibration with an exterior force, making it fly through the air and zip around as desired. The best way to accomplish this exterior vibration is through whistling at it…

>>14181

>>there is literally no reason not to get the improvements except personal philosophical objections

"becuz we culd git anudda Khan!11!!1!!!"

Even though that was because of the defect that made them highly aggressive and ambitious, not of any normal gene-resequencing effect. Just fix that and subject all babbies to it once born, and boom, Humanity 2.0

Also, is it just me, or is Bashir "normal" compared to the other genius augments? Is it because he kept holding himself back his entire life and he doesn't know how to access his full capability?

>>14214

It's because he had a good doctor that didn't scramble his brain. The other augments were fucked up by sub par gene therapy, hence their autism and strange demeanors. I'm not sure what was actually wrong with the horny chick. Was she just too horny to function in normal society? I have a hard time believing that.

Let's look at them. We have aforementioned horny girl, we have cute quiet girl, we have fat old rain man, and we have psychopathic cinema snob. These people are institutionalized because they can't function in normal society. Though I don't see why quiet girl and fat old rain man can't stay at home if their families are willing to take care of them. Maybe their families are still in jail or something. The only one that seems to actually belong there is psycho cinema snob.

>>14235

>cute quiet girl

Wasn't there a episode where they gave her the Flowers for Algernon treatment?

> Though I don't see why quiet girl and fat old rain man can't stay at home if their families

Locked-in girl should probably have professional care and would you want to be the one stuck taking care of uncle manbaby?

>>14237

Yes I like capeshit

No bully plz

>>14235

No, no I get that, I mean intelligence wise.

While Bashir shows his moments of superintelligence (especially after it's revealed and they start taking advantage of it), it really seems like he's not as genius as the other 4 who just go "Right, so I just looked at these figures and these are my projections based on everything ever for the next million years, also I just learned every language in the Alpha Quadrant while I was blinking" while Bashir actually struggles with things and seems much more mundane.

>>14264

It was never explicit in the show, but I always assumed the two factors were linked; you can only increase intelligence so far before social skills atrophy into hyperautism. Especially earlier in the show, you saw this a bit in Bashir, too, as he acted like a bit of a smug cunt.

>>14274

Being smug because you're a super genius is not atrophied social skills.

>>14264

I'm pretty sure it was mostly just down to the fact Bashir had always hidden his skills, so it took him a while to really let loose. He seemed reasonably able to keep up, the way he talked about things like the verbal shorthands they had all started using to speed up communication and so on.

>>14281

>He's really been holding back this entire time

is just nonsense crappy writing and a version of a retcon. There are plenty of times when the shit hit the fan and he should have tapped into that boundless intellect to solve whatever catastrophe was at hand, but didn't. This would be like saying Goku was able to turn Super Saiyan all the way back when he fought Piccolo, but just hid his true power the whole time.

If they hadn't intended to make Bashir a "super genius" from the very beginning, they SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT! There's a huge difference between character development and just bullshitting new abilities to a character from nowhere. The "darts" thing illustrates it perfectly. In reality, no amount of intelligence or mathematical talent is going to make someone automatically fucking good at darts. There are real people who know so much advanced math that they can define nearly the entire universe and every function within it, but if you hand them a dart for the first time they won't even be able to hit the fucking board. Oh sure, they can tell you in detail every physical effect acting upon that dart, from wind resistance to spin to the gravitational pull of goddamn Jupiter, but they won't be able to hit the board. Conversely, if you find yourself an honest-to-goodness retard and have him practice darts for ten years, he'll be a champion.

>>14307

A lot of writing in DS9 was making shit up as they went along. It actually surprisingly worked out a lot but they had very little idea of what they wanted to do for the first 4 or so Seasons.

>>14430

Flailing around madly in all directions and seeing what sticks for the first few seasons is pretty much standard for a Trek series. Hence things like early-TNG Data being "smart at facts but in practice retarded", like being able to define everything yet unable to get out of a Chinese Finger-trap.

>>14485

Felt like they were flailing around till the end of Season 5 where they settled on the Dominion being the "baddies"

>>14307

Rewatching DS9, and just started S6. First episode, and literally every five minutes Bashir is quoting the answer to some mathematical calculation like he's motherfucking C-3PO. Garak even calls him out for "thinking the same as a computer", and manages to lean on the fourth wall while doing so. What the fuck were the writers thinking doing this??

>>14181

Because the Vulcans don't want the humans to be able to compete with the other species on an even footing, and they don't want the blatant obvious upgrades and enhancements they did to themselves revelaed.

Vulcans are Augments, Romulans are the base Species.

>>14307

I get what you mean, but I disagree on one point: They still should've done it but made it less "he was actually superhuman the whole the time!!1!!111! whatatweeest!" and more "he used to be a dumb child and they made him more athletic and intelligent".

As in a subtle upgrade: they simply re-sequenced his genes and DNA for improved mental and physical abilities and not a fucking supercomputer who does 9001 calculations at the same time - all the time.

>solitary confinement is still a thing in Starfleet

Does that strike anybody else as really odd? Or is it just a Janeway thing?

>just started season 7 of DS9

>fucking everything with Ezri Dax

They shoved a brain parasite inside her against her wishes, obliterated her personality and her very identity, and condemned her to be used as a slug's flesh vehicle for the rest of her life. Her friends and family don't even recognize her anymore. And then everyone has the gall to tell her she should be grateful? That being taken over by a Goa'uld is "a great gift"?

The Trill symbiotes are a disease. Diseases must be cured.

The worst part is that she would have been really cute as just Ezri Tigan, but I find Dax repulsive on several levels.

>>14594

It was established that the Dax symbionent is a pedophile using it's hosts as fleshly condoms.

>>14560

A lot of things seems odd in Voyager. Chakotay and 7 romance at the end to me at least seems to came out of nowhere. Holodeck Davinci and "Katarina" episodes seems a tired rehash of TNG elements. Neelix. Looking back I think the highlights of the series for me was Parris and Belana but even that seemed rushed at times. The admitedly fun Captain Proton episode, and the one where that EMH doc experienced that family sim episode.

>>14600

It's weird to me how Julian's family was freaking out because his dad was being sentenced to 2 years in what's basically Swedish prison, but nobody bats an eye at solitary confinement? That's one of the worst things you can do to a person.

>>14636

>>14560

If going by general trek setting that the Feds are modelled after a "we're not military tho guise honest" military naval system. Them having the brig and solitary confinement as an option is believable enough.

That said, in Janeway's case you can make an argument that it might be weird or inconsistent if the ship needs all the functional crew it can use. But I haven't re-watched VOY in a long while so if you have examples where using solitary as a punishment is a glaring example that does not make story sense, go for it.

>>14644

Well, like Paris said in the episode, it's not a good idea to lock up your best pilot while you're being shot at.

Sisko's confinement was cooler anyway tbh

>>12625

>>14002

If you dumb fucks pay attention, Section 31 is literally just a written section in the Federation conistution that says "Do what must be done".

That's it. That's all there is. Sloan *IS* Star Fleet Intelligence. Section 31 isn't an organization, its just a catch all justification for ass covering when or if someone gets caught doing underhanded shit.

>>14688

Sloan was/is SFI, but he is also a part of S31. It is a separate entity divorced from the rest of Starfleet and the Federation that none-the-less supports it behind the scenes, that borrows it's name from that section of the Starfleet Charter you are referencing. Sloan explicitly states that S31 does not answer to these other arms of the Fed bureaucracy. Actually, so does Reed in Enterprise, if I remember correctly as well. So I think your perception of the situation might not be entirely accurate anon.

Wonder what the Space CIA of Star Trek is?

>>14711

Retarded, disloyal, willing to take out their own boss if they really shitter shatter them? Starfleet Intelligence, for sure.

>>14711

Is there a Central Intergalactic Agency though?

>>14714

>>14712

Was going to say Starfleet Intelligence has no Intelligence but neither does the CIA so a perfect fit.

>aliens mind-control a random woman into getting married to and impregnated by someone she doesn't love

>once the kid is born they fuck off and leave her to deal with the realization of what she's been forced to do, and that her entire life was nothing more than a pawn of alien brainwashing

>it's okay because the wrinklenoses pray to them lmao

>>12581

just look at our culture though

feminism and unions are perfect vessels for the space jews to exploit profit from each other

>>14688

Even if what you were saying is true (it isn’t). It doesn’t fucking matter because the concept was created because the Maquis were eliminated and they needed a harsh realism-minded offshoot, which is the role the Maquis played.

>>14688

Cool your 'tism. What these anons are saying is that the Maquis would have been a much more organic way of introducing the black ops stuff that S31 was doing (like poisoning the Founders) than S31.

>>15011

Which episode was this?

>>15028

The opening few episodes of DS9 season 7.

Sisko's real mother was "possessed" by a Prophet who made her marry Sisko's dad to ensure than Benjamin would be born. Any love she had felt for Joseph Sisko was entirely the aliens' influence. Once they stopped controlling her it all evaporated, and she left him to make the life she wanted rather than the one they forced her into. I'm most of the way through the season and Sisko has yet to even question the morality of what the wormhole aliens did; so far the most introspective I've seen him get about it was basically to say that he thought it was pretty neat that the events of the series were all his "destiny".

The Nth Degree, TNG, when Barclay hooks himself up to the ship computer and becomes almost fucking omniscient, it occurs to no one to capitalise on this and maybe ask him some fucking questions about how they could improve their technology, or about literally goddamn anything. They just take turns visiting him in the holodeck and saying 'stop it' and 'we miss the autistic dude we pay attention to sometimes' - they could have learned so fucking much that otherwise would've taken lifetimes to figure out. I mean yeah it's concerning when a crew member becomes possessed and takes over the entire ship, but it was obvious from the get-go that he never meant any harm.

>>14010

O'brien is a fucking war hero man, if he wasn't rusty then Garak would have died when he was driven mad

>>14714

ramming speed

>>15038

>>15030

>DS9 S7

Had never watched Deep Space 9 (never aired here), so when I decided to rewatch all ST shows obviously I was anxiously waiting for DS9. Was very excited, and it paid off. But man, season 7 was bullshit.

>muh pah-wraiths (did they _ever_ give a semi-technosciencebabbly explanation why they were there in the first place? how they had their powers)

>muh prophets laz0r battle (the fuck was up with that?)

and worst of all

>that finale

Ho-ree-shit those last few minutes. Overall it was pretty damn good, but Sisko is a faggot.

>Goes to DS9 and hopes to spend more time connecting with his son there in the pilot

<Finale: doesn't even say goodbye to his son when he joins the Wormhole aliens, just goes "baibai" to his wife

>Early seasons: Don't want no thang with dees Wormhole Alium prophet shit

<Finale: Da profets gimme dem visions bruh, dey wise yo, see ya cuz i gon join dem

Hell, I still can't get over the fact he didn't even say "See you" to his son. Say what you want but that kid can act and was an actual teen (well, "teen", his dialogue wasn't always believable, not hormonal enough for someone his age).

Doesn't help that Avery IRL is a wacko too, have you ever seen his interviews or his parts in "The Captains". Jesus.

Dukat did nothing wrong.

>>15085

>Dukat did nothing wrong.

He was too fond of Bajoran women, especially since he had a wife and children at home on Cardassia. The infidelity was bad enough, but the most wrong thing he did was to abandon and shame them in favor of the half-breed. His loyalty to her would have been commendable on its own, but not at the cost of betraying his real family.

>>15114

Star Trek really did shun a lot of halfbreeds. Only halfbreed that accomplished anything of note was Spock.

>>15114

7th season is not and never will be canon

>>15196

>Star Trek really did shun a lot of halfbreeds

Trek does have a lot of implicit ethnic nationalism. It's certainly not conscious, given the people who wrote it, but it's undeniably there. Every major power (except the Federation) is defined by species. It's assumed, and never even really questioned, that Cardassia is for Cardassians, Vulcan for the Vulcans, and, except for political and Starfleet centres, Earth for the humans. You see a person of a given species and it is almost always safe to assume they bear allegiance to that species.

And those with interspecies ancestry, like Ziyal, Spock, and Torres, are usually torn between their parentage, with a constant assumption of loyalty to one's people.

>>15197

That wasn't the seventh season. Ziyal died early season 6.

>>15197

I just saw the season six finale and am not liking where this show is headed.

>>15236

Worf as always was right. Seriously 99.9% of all situations of the Enterprise getting into shit was because nobody listened to Worf. No wonder he was happy on DS9.

>>14092

>that entire comment chain

Jesus fuck why are libs so 2 dimensional when they advocate the destruction of a culture?

I just watched this steaming winder, and I feel the need to rant.

This episode is terribly written; it's incoherent and the dream depictions of every character range from merely one-dimensional to one-dimensional and insulting (toward the character that had up to that point been established). Nog's just a newspaper guy. Worf's a womanizing jock who obsesses over the one woman who couldn't care less about him. The senior staff is broadly supportive of Ben and mildly adversarial toward each other. Odo is nothing but a mouthpiece for his boss. Jadzia is some vapid secretary who just happens to like sci-fi stories. O'Brien's a stuttering sperg who likes robots. Jake's an outright criminal. And Ben's a dreamer who not only fails to achieve what he's inspired to do, but his character arc ends with him simply throwing a bitch fit about it to the point where he gets hauled away in an ambulance.

The story starts with real Ben getting depressed about the Dominion War not going so great, and with no inciting event, he just starts slipping back and forth between reality and the dreamiverse of mid-20th century Earth where he's a writer, trying to get his sci-fi stories published but having trouble on account of being a black guy. The whole thing goes through some arc where the Prophets outright tell him to write these stories, and the general idea is that they're going to inspire humanity to a greater post-racism future among the stars and yadda yadda, but the guy he works for won't publish his stories with a black protagonist. He makes some changes to try and get it published anyway (even though it makes no sense in the context of the episode why those changes would make the story any more publishable), and his publisher pulps the issue instead of going to print. Then Ben cries, collapses, and gets carted off. Somewhere in there is a B-plot about Cassidy buying a restaurant and Jake getting shot by Garak and Weyoun while stealing a car, but it really doesn't contribute anything to the main story. Anyway, after the amberlamps, Ben just wakes up back in reality, the visions are just gone and he's fine now, and suddenly he feels better about continuing to fight the Dominion War for some reason. Nevermind that the dream story didn't parallel anything in the real world, nevermind the fact that NONE of the characters in the dreamiverse had ANY agency whatsoever, nevermind that dream Ben straight-up refused to publish the story himself despite that solution being explicitly mentioned.

Ben's sad about a war, suddenly has a dream granted by the Prophets about something completely unrelated, where he envisions everyone in his life as useless cardboard cutouts completely unrelated to their usual selves, and he fails to achieve anything, or even use the options available to him in an effective manner, and cries himself into a hospital, then he wakes up without explanation and feels better about fighting the war, and has some speech about "What if… y'know, like… THIS is the dream… and THAT was real? Woah!"

It's utter garbled, incoherent, insulting nonsense, and it undermines the fact that Captain Benjamin Sisko's race isn't a big deal, which was always a strong point for his character and the series. The fact that he was awesome because he was competent, commanding, and formidable, and that the Federation was such an awesome place because it made literally no difference that he was black. It injects a racial narrative into what is supposed to be a post-racist world.

The whole thing just infuriates me. I know it's Avery Brooks' favorite episode, but it's a goddamn dumpster fire.

>>15259

>It injects a racial narrative into what is supposed to be a post-racist world.

That happens a couple times. That episode is the most egregious, but in one of the Vic Fontaine episodes he gives a whole speech about how much he hates historical-setting holosuite programs where he doesn't constantly get called a nigger.

To me that sort of thing represents not just an undermining of the world Star Trek builds, but of its use of the science fiction genre as a whole. You've got half a galaxy to work with, countless worlds and species, so why are you sticking to the same old things that always get done in any genre? Why aren't you doing things you can only do with sci-fi? Use a pair of alien species with a possibly-justified status gap. Question the status of androids or holograms. Do it abstractly. If you're just going to set it in the 1950's, and not use any time travel, future tech, or anything that makes sci-fi sci-fi, then why are you doing it in a sci-fi series at all?

Take the episode with Jadzia's wife from a previous host. That is a conflict you simply cannot have without sci-fi, despite it being used as a metaphor for the real-world question of sexual orientation. That is a good use of the science fiction setting. That's not to say the episode itself wasn't rubbish; I thought everyone acted like a complete idiot and that's coming from someone who isn't heterosexual in the first place, so for me to not be taking their side shows how much the writers fucked up, and by making them both female it defeated the point of using a metaphor in the first place, leaving the episode way too blunt and on-the-nose. But the point is that the plot was one you could only have with sci-fi.

It should allow you to examine an issue without actually raising that issue, and avoid to an extent the preconceptions people on either side might have about it. It should even sometimes be possible for a viewer or reader to take one side of a conflict, and only realize afterwards that it parallels a real issue that they usually take the other side of. That's the kind of situation that makes you think about the issue, and it's a kind of story science fiction is uniquely well-equipped to tell.

Would Starship Troopers be considered anything close to a genre-defining classic if it hadn't been science fiction? No, it would be widely ignored and dismissed as fascist wanking. Not a single high school anywhere would stock it in their library. The fact that it is sci-fi - not that it is framed by sci-fi, but that it is sci-fi - is what allows it to work. Even if you disagree with it, it is still a worthwhile read because of that. "Far Beyond the Stars" discards its sci-fi frame. Its sole premise is to shout in your face "Hey, remember when everyone hated niggers?" It has value only to those who want to jerk off to agreeing with it. That it couldn't even bother to stay tonally consistent with depiction of human races in the rest of Trek is just the next layer on the shit cake.

>>15292

Here's your friendly reminder that Frakes wanted the person from that single-sex-race who fell in love with Riker to be portrayed by a male actor, but the execs vetoed it. Despite pretending to be progressive, Trek never allowed itself to touch real homosexuality with a ten-foot-pole. One lesbian kiss mean do a damn thing because literally nobody is homophobic against lesbians; they just think it's HOT.

>>15259

Alot of season five and six episodes had abrupt endings like that. They do nothing to tie up loose ends or even hint at answers to obvious questions. They do it clunkily too. It was ok when Hitchcock did it in The Birds because it's a self contained story, and much of the suspense lies in the mystery of why the birds are even attacking in the first place. This is a shit thing to do in a show that is supposed to have continuity. DS9 is episodic, unlike many of today's shows with the main plot arc being series long, which makes it even more important to resolve everything at the end of the episode.

I already bitched about it in another thread, but in S6E22 "Valiant" they pull this unresolved bullshit. Nog and Jake get saved by a ship piloted only by red squad. The federation has the ship MIA, but really red squad's actual captain died, and they decide to keep playing spesships in secret. Eventually everybody gets killed except Jake, Nog, and one other red squad chick. Then with about two minutes left, they get saved, and have a short conversation that goes something like this, "Oh noes. Everybody dieded, but the captain's drug addicted peepee was the yummiest peepee in Starfleet. Please write about his delicious cummies in your story, Jek."

Where are the court martials? Nog was acting captain when the valiant went down. That's an automatic court martial for him. This shit should shake Starfleet to its core. When their captain died, a bunch of cadets on a glorified field trip effectively hijacked the newest most advanced ship in Starfleet and played soldier in secret for EIGHT MONTHS, eventually killing all but three people, one of which had just joined them, and one of which was a journalist they kept in the brig. The fact the feared Jake so much and locked him up shows that they knew what they were doing was wrong.

This shit is clown shoes.

>>15401

>Despite pretending to be progressive, Trek never allowed itself to touch real homosexuality with a ten-foot-pole

This is true; obviously it was pretty right out in the 60s. In the late 80s when Gene was at the helm of TNG, he'd usually say something and then do something else. In another thread here awhile back an anon posted some shit about how his lawyer basically hated gays and he tended to not really push back on anything he did…and maybe he didn't ultimately give a shit about prioritizing male on male despite whatever the hell he said on the road because there wasn't tits and a pussy involved. And later on some turbofag writer on the show said Berman was/is "homophobic" but then I think with was in reaction to a story regarding a bunch of intergalactic bugchasers pozzing each other not getting greenlit for a 7PM weekend show for some reason, so take that with a grain of salt.

As far as the TNG actors go most of them are colossal faggots IRL; Wil is just the worst of the bunch, so this Frakes vs Berman situation here is not a huge surprise.

>>15423

>As far as the TNG actors go most of them are colossal faggots IRL

Do elaborate?

Obviously Wheaton needs no explanation, and Stewart isn't that much better, but I don't know about the rest IRL (outside of Avery Brooks being a loony).

>>15424

Troi is a massive cunt, McFadden is as well. Levar Burton is an angry black, Spiner is a libtard, Frakes is okay, and Dorn is very private.

>>15423

>Berman was/is "homophobic"

They wanted Garak to try to fuck Bashir, and Berman said, “no.”

>>15420

Does this not bother anyone else? Just me?

>>15401

I don't know, I kind of want all of the dykes to die tbh fam.

>>15448

I see what you mean, but I'm already in a state of perma-trigger over Season 7 as it is, rushed endings are just diarrhea icing on an already shitty cake.

>>15459

I've just barely started season 7 and I hate it already.

>>15431

IIRC, it was actually Robinson (Garak) who decided against that, deliberately keeping his attraction to Bashir ambiguous (if spreading subtext so thick you could cut it with a knife). Something about it not being in his character to allow himself to get close to someone like that. Which is perfectly justified. I'll take a complex, repressed-gay character over an unrealistic flaming faggot any day.

>>14748

Lol. Heisenberg baffled them with bullshit. While it's all technically correct (well more like 95% correct), none of that shit really matters if you know the steps to the synth. That's all inherently taken care of in the synth. That spic could have totally done his "cook" just fine. Get any college lab manual and do a lab or two. You don't have to actually understand how dienes work to perform the Diels-Alder reaction. Just like if you know the steps to separate the enantiomers from a racemic mixture, you don't even kneed to know what an enantiomer or racemization is.

t. chemist

Polite sage for off topic

>>15423

>As far as the TNG actors go most of them are colossal faggots IRL

Data whines a bunch on twitter about Gun Control last I checked.

>>15482

If you watch for anything watch for Garrek and Quark. Quark acting especially in late Dogs of War might be one of his best moments in the show.

>>15424

Well, Wil is useless as pretty much everyone here is aware. Pat used to appear to be alright but seems to have become horrifically asshurt over recent political events. Marina is a bit of a bitch and is a bit of a low-watt bulb, McFadden as well (maybe more bitch and less low-watt though with her). Levar's a normie liberal whinger, which isn't surprising since he did a PBS series and probably has a fucking tote bag somewhere. Spiner doesn't like guns, although he mainly just shitposts online. Dorn seemed rational as a real pussy pounder who flew military jets for fun about 10-20 years ago but has developed into a bit of a "surface-level interest" cuck in recent years, the last time I saw him he was telling people not to "bully the Literally Whos because gamergurls" or whatever bullshit and had no interest in digging deeper. Frakes bounces around between being competent about on the clock stuff, and getting wound up on IRL shit. I don't know anything about Denise, but Bing Crosby was a pretty strictly trad guy IIRC with a high belief and utilization in corporal punishment and some of his relatives trashed him after he kicked the bucket over that, if you want to gauge her then see if she's said anything about that.

As far as non-TNG (shorter list here since I can't list every fucking person), Shatner is fucking unique and in a category all to himself. Nimoy seemed to be a bit of a mixed bag, pretty granola guy but also got royally pissed at Gene for a lot of the shadier shit he pulled, mixed bag him. Takei has strong unwarranted self-importance, maybe a rapist. Avery as you said is nuts, seems to think he's a one man Black Panther. Kate is slightly more self aware than her Janeway but is a bit of a bitch IRL as well. Jeff Combs is a slimy fuck IRL, wasn't reaching hard with Weyoun. Dwight Schultz (Brocolli) seems alright, gives me a bit of a IRL Niles Crane that isn't nuts and is fairly practical.

Won't even go into the showrunners, they are pretty much are all assholes and/or hacks, some more than others though.

>>15525

>Garrek

What did he mean by this?

>>15533

>Dorn seemed rational as a real pussy pounder who flew military jets for fun about 10-20 years ago but has developed into a bit of a "surface-level interest" cuck in recent years, the last time I saw him he was telling people not to "bully the Literally Whos because gamergurls" or whatever bullshit and had no interest in digging deeper.

Fucking hell, he did a good job too voicing Marcus the Mutant in FO2.

>Jeff Combs is a slimy fuck IRL, wasn't reaching hard with Weyoun.

He did great voice work for Justice League Animated Series, if what you say is true it's as shitty as finding out Kevin Conroy is "With Her".

>Won't even go into the showrunners, they are pretty much are all assholes and/or hacks, some more than others though.

That's not a big surprise, Ron D Moore might be the exception though not sure about nowadays, but he came from the fandom rank not the outright hollywood camp. At least back then.

>>15430

>Troi is a massive cunt

>Levar Burton is an angry black

Really, I thought they were pretty chill irl?

Troi has that British slag thing going on too.

>>15533

>Jeff Combs is a slimy fuck IRL, wasn't reaching hard with Weyoun

What'd he do?

>Takei has strong unwarranted self-importance, maybe a rapist

>maybe

Considering he's blaming a Russian smear campaign I'm quite sure he is.

>Kate is slightly more self aware than her Janeway but is a bit of a bitch IRL as well

Keep in mind she absolutely loathes her time on ST because of the effect it had on her family life. She seems to be a nice but strict motherly type.

Having met Marina IRL, her "personality" might seem bitchy to Americans but in reality she has more of a constant banter-thing going on.

It's a British slag thing, she isn't a bitch, just the slutty type, and you have to know how to handle them.

>>15592

>He did great voice work for Justice League Animated Series, if what you say is true it's as shitty as finding out Kevin Conroy is "With Her".

I made a thread about it a while ago, but can confirm he's a major cuck IRL. I usually try to avoid celebrity twitters since they're nearly all braindead there, but I went to his after watching "From Beyond" so I was in a good mood. It was your typical Hollyjew libtard bullshit

>muh drumpf

>muh drumpf junior (he really hates Don jr)

>muh gun violence

>muh republicans

>muh bootlickers

>muh Russia

and so on. I'm looking through it now, and he's been shilling for the FBI for some reason (I guess Trump trashed them recently).

>>15598

I think Burton being an "angry black" is inaccurate. When I think "angry black man" I think Avery. Levar just whines about shit from his cuckshed if someone remembers he was on TV once a long time ago.

Lemme put it this way. As I said, he was a PBS guy, did Reading Rainbow in fact. Having met those kinds of people very frequently in the past, the vast majority of them are supremely dumb basic bitch motherfuckers. Very superficial. So if you would go and just shoot the shit with Levar about sports and other normie entertainment at a bar, he's your fucking wingman for the night if you keep it at that level. If you try to gauge him on anything serious at all, if PBS was a good fit for him as it seems it was then the charm would likely go off the rails into the kind of guy who would rant about the local unions not focusing on hiring minorities and donating to specific political campaigns rather than protecting wages for blue collar workers.

Levar isn't a very complicated person. In reality he's probably one of the easier people to deal with since, if you extricated him from a soapbox into a normal social situation, he'd act like anybody else you'd meet around a water cooler except for the fact he can play pretend a bit better than the people at an office building.

>>15599

>Considering he's blaming a Russian smear campaign I'm quite sure he is.

I'd bet he did as well in all honesty but he's not in jail yet…though it probably won't get to that point.

>Keep in mind she absolutely loathes her time on ST because of the effect it had on her family life

That's not a one-person club, hell you have Beltran in there as well right next to her.

>>15599

>Keep in mind she absolutely loathes her time on ST because of the effect it had on her family life. She seems to be a nice but strict motherly type.

No, she was upset because they brought in an actress with a firmer ass when the novelty of ‘female captain’ wore off.

>>15545

I mean that I'm bad with names and occasionally misspell them.

>DS9 S6:E6 - Sacrifice of Angels

>Dramatic down-to-the-wire no-holds-barred battle for control of Deep Space Nine

>Everyone's struggles to keep the minefield active over the course of several episodes comes to a head

>They fail and the minefield is down; Dominion reinforcements are on the way through the wormhole!

>Sisko and co. prepare for a dramatic Charge of The Light Brigade

>Suddenly deus ex machina wormhole aliens poof several-thousand Dominion ships out of existence and save the day because Muh Emissary Sikso

What the fuck? Literally WHAT THE FUCK?! SERIOUSLY WHY IN THE NAME OF COCKSUCKING CHRIST WOULD THEY DO THAT?!?!

It's not like it was an impossible problem that required an impossible solution; they wrote themselves into that problem by having Rom fail to get the station's weapons down in time. Even if they wanted to include the minefield going down for more dramatic tension, they could have done any number of things to solve that without using those literal time-gods. For fuck's sake, I came up with a better idea five minutes after the end of the episode, and I'm not even paid to come up with this shit!

I'm so fucking salty about this. Motherfuckers! I almost want to drop the series right now.

>>15889

Agree in full anon. The only very, very, minor consolation is that having those ships come back in STO for a level was surprisingly decent writing for an MMO dev team.

>>15889

>Suddenly deus ex machina wormhole aliens poof several-thousand Dominion ships out of existence and save the day because Muh Emissary Sikso

You're not alone on this. The only reason the Alpha quadrant isn't in complete dominion control is because of a fucking last second religious shoehorn aspect. DS9 was essentially over by this point and everything else was just shit with a few highlights here and there to keep me watching. most of those highlights had to do with the new Dax and every time I got to see her ass

>>15889

Yeah. Keep this in mind when Feddies trump out how awesome the Federation is.

The Dominion was beating the shit out of the Federation, Klingons and Romulans with one minor power, one broken power that they had to rebuild,, and a sliced off hand. And in the final act, they were concerned that if they took the armistice agreement, Dominion industrial might would mean that in a few years, they would overwhelm all three Alpha Quadrant powers combined.

After that wormhole sealed, and stayed sealed, the Dominion had such severe logistical shortfalls that there were plans in place to massacre the JemHadar lest they run amok, and most of the industry they brought over was being used to repair and rebuild Cardassia, and thus they only had the reinforcements brought over through the wormhole. Granted, these reinforcements were so large and frequent that the Federation shit themselves and immediately started the war.

A year later, they were mass producing newbatches of Jemhadar with zero concern for logistical shortfalls, and were building fleets at a fast enough pace to match three established Great Powers on their hometurf, and were starting to overtake them.

With scraps. With the Dominion equivalent of UNICEF and forces deployed to Somalia, and whatever they managed to cobble together on site. The full force of the Dominion would have crushed the Alpha Quadrant.

And also keep this in mind whenever someones starts jacking it to the Sisko about how badass he is. It takes several instances of semi-literal Deus Ex Machina for Sisko to succeed.

>>15619

No, it was because of how poorly her character was handled by a fellow woman no less.

>>14644

Voyager's solitary confinement is barely worth the name.

Even Suder got some company every now and then.

>>15012

Our culture hasn't remained anywhere near as consistent and maintained as the Ferengi though. The closest we have come are the Confucian ideals. The Ferenghi Rules of Acquisition have been in force long enough to affect the evolution of the species itself. Granted, that might be why the eventually built up a large enough female populace that was capable of Ferenghi trading, carry over genes, and thus had demonstrable proof of women having some capability.

>>15197

Oh fuck off. Like, I can get some of this, for example, Disney Wars or SupCom 2, but this is just butthurt.

>>15420

>Nog was acting captain when the valiant went down. That's an automatic court martial for him.

He was a hostage, it was wartime, they covered it up, kept it secret, and by the time they think it should be examined, its just trivia.

>>16150

I think we just wanted to see Nog die.

>>16082

Given the number of plots in Trek that have been started by unexplained space phenomena, an otherwise capable and logical person heading toward something that isn't there is hardly surprising.

>>16144

The Dominion is deliberately made OP, though. This is a classic narrative device, with the antagonist being larger and more powerful, forcing the heroes to be smarter and more savvy (and sometimes just more "good") to even be able to defeat them. In-universe, if the Dominion basically owns the entire fucking Gamma Quadrant, of course they would be able to move large amounts of military muscle compared to the Federation which is, maybe, a quarter of the Alpha Quadrant.

What never made sense to me was how the Dominion managed to conquer a damn thing. Yeah, the Jem-Hadar are extremely powerful soldiers, but they're also stupid. The Vorta (if Weyoun is anything to go off of) are also pretty damn stupid, at least compared to Dukat and of course Sisko. So was the entire Gamma Quadrant composed of a bunch of idiot pushovers?

>>16169

>What never made sense to me was how the Dominion managed to conquer a damn thing. Yeah, the Jem-Hadar are extremely powerful soldiers, but they're also stupid. The Vorta (if Weyoun is anything to go off of) are also pretty damn stupid, at least compared to Dukat and of course Sisko. So was the entire Gamma Quadrant composed of a bunch of idiot pushovers?

Trek is full of this kind of thing, anon. Remember when a couple Ferengi managed to take over the Enterprise with a couple surplus BoPs? Or when the Duras sisters destroyed the Enterprise with a tactical GoPro?

>>16169

>What never made sense to me was how the Dominion managed to conquer a damn thing. Yeah, the Jem-Hadar are extremely powerful soldiers, but they're also stupid. The Vorta (if Weyoun is anything to go off of) are also pretty damn stupid, at least compared to Dukat and of course Sisko. So was the entire Gamma Quadrant composed of a bunch of idiot pushovers?

They aren't really stupid, not much in the way that matters against non-plot armored peeps. And as far as fleet operations and strategic disposition, they were quite competent. Please remember, there is more to any competition than one guy being stupid and the other a super genius. The Napoleonic Wars had a few notable dunces, but it also had French and Russian generals of unparalleled brilliance. But all the glory goes to the British. Why? Because they won the war. The Duke wasn't supremely talented, he was good, but not of Bonaparte's caliber. That British Admiral? Wasn't good at all. He was trash.

But overall, the British won that war.

Combine that with Changeling inflitration, and a focus on logistics and obedience, and the individual merely needs to be competent., never genius. For all that we saw small sections of Dominion forces be outwitted here and there, or lose battles, on the whole the organization never lost cohesion or the ability to act on a grand scale.

You can win plenty of battles, big and small, against the Dominion. That doesn't mean you win the war. Even Chuck points out "flaws" which aren't dire, the Changling woman's habit of only using a hammer, but these "flaws" barely matter, because the organization built up around her, the Dominion, would have and could have carried on without them.

And the Founders know they are long lived, and they have been at this game for centuries and millenia. They had plenty of time to hide, and then infiltrate and gently guide solid societies to a desired goal, the spd of the journey being nearly irrelevant. Only the destination.

Look at irl Jews and the Rothschilds. Set back after set back in the 1800s, but all they had to do was not lose until there most dangerous adversaries slipped and then capitalize on it. The lax attitudes, laziness and greed of Americans post-Civil War, the incompetence of Nicholas the 2nd, both led to the opposing nascent superpowers to fall to their influence and become nonhostile. All the Rothschild's had to do was wait and conserve their power while events played out…and ensure another like those two couldn't arise, which is why the Boers were crushed with absolute ruthlessness the 2nd time around, and why the Germans were harangued over killing some niggers.

And now, the Jews don't need to be good. There is a great imagepost that would sum it up.

The Founders however, need to be good, but they don't need to be brilliant. So what they likely did, was bide their time, play up alliances, make a fucking science of infiltration, and for a time, they were dangerous, with a razor sharp lethal edge. Then, after accumulating more and more power, and acquiring the pieces and the knowledge, they swallowed up everyone they could everywhere they could reach and never left a wartime economy until there various foes were vanquished or had surrendered and had their fleets and men used up to the point of exhaustion and were then ignored save for fueling the war effort.

>>16150

I was referring to the Ferengi character named Nog, not the nog character named Jake Sisko. Jake was a hostage. Nog was happy to be a member of the crew. We also know that Jake wrote all about the event and made it public. Losing a ship is an automatic court martial no matter the circumstances. Nog should have been court martialed.

>>16183

Nothing would have happened to Nog and you know it. The ship was probably assumed destroyed months ago anyway. Nog would have simply provided closure.

>>16184

>Nothing would have happened to Nog and you know it.

Yes, he would have most likely been found not guilty and sent back to DS9. In the real US Navy, losing a ship is an automatic court martial no matter what. Whether tea captain will be found guilty of any wrongdoing will be determined. Court martial != instantly guilty.

>The ship was probably assumed destroyed months ago anyway.

Sisko said the ship had been missing for eight months. Red squad decided to maintain silence and play soldier. They should have turned around and headed back to startfleet academy right away.

>Nog would have simply provided closure.

Nog was an important witness to the destruction of the Valiant. Starfleet lost a valuable top of the line ship to the hands of inexperienced cadets. That's not something they would just shrug off.

>>16192

>That's not something they would just shrug off.

What else can be done but to shrug it off? You can't court martial your way to bringing the ship back. Also, it is basically impossible to prevent what Red Squad did too. Your whole argument is silly too because Starfleet is a not a traditional military.

>>16169

>Given the number of plots in Trek that have been started by unexplained space phenomena, an otherwise capable and logical person heading toward something that isn't there is hardly surprising.

I dunno. It's one thing where you have some invisible quantum string, it's another to confuse a star for a fucking galaxy. Also, there's the question why there's suspended animation if you are in a post Warp 5 era.

>inb4 ENT was sloppily slapped together five years later

>>16226

>What else can be done but to shrug it off? You can't court martial your way to bringing the ship back. Also, it is basically impossible to prevent what Red Squad did too. Your whole argument is silly too because Starfleet is a not a traditional military.

Absolute horse shit. The court martial is a formal way of determining the truth is what happened, something starfleet cares about very much. even in 'non-traditional' starfleet, there would be a huge investigation. If they decided to even try an exercise like that again with cadets, they should make sure they know that if something happens to all the actual crew, they are to contact starfleet and immediately return to the academy. At the very least they should contact starfleet. They might even go so far as to disband red squad, and only allow cadets to observe on such a mission. Do you really think the US Naavy would shrug it off if a bunch of midshipmen from Annapolis took command of a ship and decided to just go around doing their own thing? They'd get thrown in Leavenworth!

>>16269

But Red Squad died so any talk of prison sentences do not make sense. Your whole 'tism spasm does not make any sense because every died and the ship was lost. Nog can't be held responsible for something he did not do.

>>16271

I think other anon is just doubling down really hard on USN's standard procedure when a ship goes down, which is court-martialing (which is an investigation and not a sentence). Because Nog was technically in command when it went down, he'd be the one to investigate. There's no direct reason to believe that Starfleet has the exact same procedure that the USN does, but it's not that crazy an assumption to make; the main reason there are no TNG-era commodores despite so many of them popping up on TOS is that by the time TNG aired Commodore was no longer a rank in the Navy.

>>16272

I know what he was saying but I do not like the fact that he doubled down. Starfleet is not a military organization even though it resembles the USN.

>>16271

>>16272

>>16273

Fine. Forget the fucking court martial. There would still be an investigation of some kind. What they did was mutiny. Nog would be interrogated/debriefed for quite awhile, and while arguably not directly responsible, as he came in later, still participated. Chubette should end up in a federation penal colony. There would be significant reform of the regulations related to what cadets can and can't do.

Do you really think The commandant of starfleet academy just bumped into an admiral in the hall one day and the admiral was like, "Oh, by the way commandant. It turns out that red squad had been only semi-competently commanding the Valiant on their own for the past eight months. They just died trying to attack a massive Jem'hadar battleship few days ago. Oh well. So are you and Margaret still coming by for tea this evening?"

>>16273

>Starfleet is not a military organization even though it resembles the USN.

Hmm, I find that doubtful. When push comes to shove it's been shown in the Trek universe the Feds do in fact have and flex their military capabilities. I didn't see Starfleet defer to any other Earth based organizations when it came to force on force situations.

>>16177

>when the Duras sisters destroyed the Enterprise with a tactical GoPro?

I am forever and anon going to refer to Geordi as a "tactical Go-Pro" now.

>>16265

The timeline and progression of technology was completely fucked over by Enterprise. They never should have attempted to make that series canon.

>>15420

>>15420

>>15420

Redsquadredsquadredsquad

Redsquadredsquadredsquad

Redsquadredsquadredsquad

Redsquadredsquadredsquad

Redsquadredsquadredsquad

RedsquadredsquadredsquadRedsquadredsquadredsquadRedsquadredsquadredsquadRedsquadrRedsquadredsquadredsquad

Redsquadredsquadredsquad

RedsquadredsquadredsquadRedsquadredsquadredsquadRedsquadredsquadredsquad

>>15420

>Where are the court martials? Nog was acting captain when the valiant went down. That's an automatic court martial for him. This shit should shake Starfleet to its core. When their captain died, a bunch of cadets on a glorified field trip effectively hijacked the newest most advanced ship in Starfleet and played soldier in secret for EIGHT MONTHS, eventually killing all but three people, one of which had just joined them, and one of which was a journalist they kept in the brig. The fact the feared Jake so much and locked him up shows that they knew what they were doing was wrong.

Nigger do you honestly think that ANY military - much less the ever-so-proud Starfleet - would ever air their dirty laundry like that (even internally) in the middle of a war? Use your head; anyone who knew about this shitshow just wanted it over with and with the Valiant destroyed and only one member of the original "crew" left they probably just debriefed Nog and whatsername, threw the latter in prison or somewhere similarly out of the way and told Nog that if he ever brings this up again his career is ogre.

>>15420

I'd actually forgot about that one so I looked it up on MA. Came across this:

>In modern naval protocol, Nog, a commissioned officer, would have immediately outranked the entire crew of the Valiant, all of whom were cadets. However, writer Ronald D. Moore has stated that he based the premise on an 18th and 19th century naval tradition that an acting captain can only be removed from command by a flag officer.

The whole situation would have played out differently if they didn't follow shit that was outdated ages ago.

>>16360

Meh, you migh be right. They did that sometimes in WWII. "Wow you really fucked up. Here's a medal. If you try something like that again, OSS will disappear you. Now let's never speak of this again."

>>16363

That's actually not that retarded. Nog may be higher in the chain of command but in terms of line of command he could be very bottom on the totem pole. Anyone got the Line of Command post saved?

I'm mad about the ending for Dear Doctor

>>15027

No, its fucking stupid, why would the Maquis be doing that stuff for the Federation's benefit? Which is literally what Section 31 does.

>>15085

>>muh pah-wraiths (did they _ever_ give a semi-technosciencebabbly explanation why they were there in the first place? how they had their powers)

They mean bad Prophets. The devil, that if they escape, destroy the whole galaxy because hurr durr retard alert.

>>16272

>Because Nog was technically in command when it went down, he'd be the one to investigate.

He was a hostage.

>>16285

>Nog would be interrogated/debriefed for quite awhile, and while arguably not directly responsible, as he came in later, still participated.

What part of "Hostage" do you not understand?

>>16285

>Do you really think The commandant of starfleet academy just bumped into an admiral in the hall one day and the admiral was like, "Oh, by the way commandant. It turns out that red squad had been only semi-competently commanding the Valiant on their own for the past eight months. They just died trying to attack a massive Jem'hadar battleship few days ago. Oh well. So are you and Margaret still coming by for tea this evening?"

True, there should have been a massive investigation launched immediately, but hey, they wanted to do a teens on drugs are bad episode.

Also, Red Squad had been assigned to make a round trip across the Federation, literally assigned decades of busy work to dispose of them.

>>17512

That episode just made me scratch my head. It seemed entirely bent on making Sisko understand that Dukat wasn't such a clear-cut evil, and making Dukat understand that his hatred for Bajorans was irrational. It was a HUGE opportunity for character development for them both. Instead, for literally no reason at all, at the very end Sisko suddenly decided Dukat was literal Satan, and Dukat suddenly decided he WANTED to be literal Satan.

I want to find whoever was on the writing team pushing that Prophets bullshit to the forefront, and beat them to death. It's pure Christcuckery.

>>17303

Nog was in no way a hostage. He was a very eager participant. He was living the dream as part of red squad. He would have slurped the junky cock if he had the chance.

>>17600

>thinking they'd let a Christian have a major writing role

Also, no, it's pure "Ira Steven Behr is asshurt that Niners love Dukat."

>>17600

Yeah, honestly this is like the 2nd worst ending I've ever seen. I even put it ahead of VOY, because DS9 was good up till this point, so that makes this shit ending sting all the more.

>>17609

>>17600

Ira Steven Behr literally wrote a Starfleet Captain taking advantage of a man at the bottom end of a severe mental breakdown brought on by immense psychological trauma. Think about that for a second. Sisko had an opportunity to help and repair Dukat, and offer a path for redemption for any crimes he did commit, and heal a broken man.

He throws it away for a pissing match. But its okay, because hes the grandson of divinity.

DS9 and TNG both have that problem, that flaws and all, they are in the right because a divine god like being comes down from Heaven and declares it so.

>>17645

>Sisko had an opportunity to help and repair Dukat, and offer a path for redemption for any crimes he did commit, and heal a broken man. He throws it away for a pissing match.

There's another possible lesson in there about two sides in a war being less black-and-white, and more black-and-black, but I know goddamn well already that they squandered it. There's little I hate more than evil deeds being in-universe excused completely just because they're committed by a protagonist.

Did Kira EVER face any real consequences for all her years being a literal terrorist murderer? So many times I wished I could smack that smug look off her bitch face whenever she pulls that simultaneous moral elitism and victim crap. Odo was merely complicit in evil acts (committing nearly none himself) but he suffered mightily for it. Couldn't they have done the same with her?

>>17679

>committing nearly none himself

Only the one, but it was quite a doozy.

>>17679

>Did Kira EVER face any real consequences for all her years being a literal terrorist murderer? So many times I wished I could smack that smug look off her bitch face whenever she pulls that simultaneous moral elitism and victim crap.

She didn't. Honestly, Winn was the only one to ever tell her what a cunt she was for constantly shilling MUH RESISTANCE and thinking they're the only reason the Cardies eventually fucked off. Winn spent some 5 years in a prison camp for trying to teach religion in a peaceful way, but this was the only time she ever brought this fact up.

Winn did nothing wrong, is what I'm saying

>>17684

Reminder that the Cardassians only annexed Bajor because the Federation annexed resource rich worlds they didn't need on the Cardassian border which in turn spurred Cardassians to declare war on the Federation due to starvation.

>>17851

Yeah, the Federation had a habit of letting there settlers grab any planet they pleased and then showing up with Starfleet when any locals got pissy. It had some similarities to British Colonial settlers but with key differences, main one being the settlers were fighting off the natives just fine, and British intervention was almost entirely to stop the settlers, and the British military position was not nearly so bad as the Federation one, and the British weren't pretending to be goody toshoes aout it. And it was starting to make them look bad.

I mean really, the Maquis semed like a community of 100,000 at most, why the fuck did they need several entire planets? Couldn't they just petition for a country sized chunk of land on an inhabited world?

>>17851

>>17684

And Cardassia wasn't even that bad to Bajorans, going by the number dead over the years passed.

>>17679

>Did Kira EVER face any real consequences for all her years being a literal terrorist murderer?

Why would she? Her side won, or at least got what they wanted. Nobody on Bajor is going to convict Kira of anything, and they're not technically part of the Federation, so they can't arrest her either. The only people who would want to do anything about it and could are the Cardassians, who clearly felt it was better to put her in a spoonhead suit and mindfuck her.

>>16360

>>16412

I get this, but there should at least be a line of dialogue about it, especially since one of the people involved is a journalist.

>>17679

>Did Kira EVER face any real consequences for all her years being a literal terrorist murderer?

Almost, but no. There was the one time all her terrorist friends got killed by one of the civilians who was left horrifically disfigured by one of her attacks. But she proudly declared that she had been in the right because ALL Cardassians deserved to die, and that he was an evil murderer because he only assassinated the people who wronged him instead of wantonly bombing laundromats. Then she shot him.

>>17881

Sounds like typical wrinkle-nose logic

>>17684

Kai Winn? more like Kai #Winning if you ask me

>>17881

Kira really should have been a Cardassian.