/qresearch/ - Q Research Board★

https:// qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/

https:// news.bitcoin.com/japans-dmm-launches-large-scale-domestic-cryptocurrency-mining-farm-and-showroom/

https:// cryptocoin.news/news/russia-announces-massive-crypto-mining-farm-plans-4590/

https:// www.investopedia.com/news/montana-will-build-251-million-cryptocurrency-mining-system/

It's happening everywhere.

Did I mention one single bitcoin "transaction" costs hundreds of thousands of times more energy than the processing of a credit card transaction (5), the holy plastic rectangle of the international central banking system? Would so many billionaire investors, and billionaire regional governments invest in something such an incredulous inefficiency in energy use?

Do you really think that all that is being done in bitcoin mining is authenticating transactions? That much electricity on a global scale is simply being used to maintain the blockchain? If that is the case, and not something far more nefarious (remember, all crypto mining is just that, encrypted; you have no idea what information you process when you "mine") could it not still be, like FB, a weaponized tool engineered from the start to disassociate people, decrease trust, decrease empathy, etc? Beyond sustaining (amazingly inefficiently) a decentralized monetary system, What use is mining crypto currencies at all except for raising the demand and price of electricity, raising the demand and price of computing hardware, increasing wealth inequality?

I guess it comes down to one simple question.

A.

Do you think that the smartest computer engineers in the world simply can't come up with an even slightly energy competitive decentralized currency, and that investors would pump so much money into a system which uses their collected energy, in the form of money, so unbelievably inefficiently?

or

B.

The entire industry of crypto currencies is not what it seems, their publicly stated goal are vastly different from their actual hidden intentions.

(1) https:// digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

(2) https:// coinmarketcap.com/

(3) https:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption

(4) https:// www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/susb/tables/2015/us_state_totals_2015.xlsx

(5) https:// www.businessenergy.com/electricity/

>>851935

You're making my point for me. You say, "hey, it is great for us!"

Could just as easily be a statement froman Englishman in the 18th century talking about colonialism.

The point is, is crypto good for a better and freer humanity?

Coinfag here. You bring good points up, but per my understanding, bigger block sizes (i.e. More transactions per block) will allow for much more transactions per per power used. Ie crypto can scale to mass use without using the same increase by proportion in power. Bitcoin has been taken over by deep state bad actors, but other like bitcoin cash will fill the void and make it work. (I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not, as it could actually end the fed, etc.)

>>852205

An unmanipulated and efficient decentralized medium of exchange is a great thing to be sure, but do we currently have that?

>>852306

Not with bitcoin. With some others they do have it. Bitcoin cash, Dash, probably a few others.

>>851999

Trips.

I'd go back to PMs myself, I'm just agreeing. Like electric cars being "good for the environment" and other nonsense.

processing keeps getting cheaper.

blockchain, of which the coins are but use cases, is the whole point.

it is the very tongue of Leviathan.

I realized I assumed just for simplicity that a household would be one person. but it isn't. It varies widely, but it's 2 on average. Therefore, the electricity used to mine the top five cryptos could power not only EVERY residence on the face of the Earth, but also EVERY small and medium business on the face of the Earth, and all with FIRST WORLD ENERGY CONSUMPTION RATES

Those energy estimates are way out of whack.

To understand why, you have to understand what it means to execute computer code. There are many different ways to process a mathematical problem using electronics. Different coins have been developed to use different mathematical problems to use for their systems. This means that the code executes differently on different architectures… Or doesn't execute at all.

Bitcoin uses SHA256 as its core hash algorithm. This is a very simple math problem that was classically performed on x86 processors that are designed to solve much more complicated and varied math problems. Thus, they are very inefficient at executing code.

A graphics card can run hundreds or thousands of similar instructions concurrently, and sees nearly a 1000 fold improvement over CPU code… For similar power consumption.

But this can be refined even further. Specific integrated circuits can be set up to perform SHA256 at the speed of voltage propagation. These ASICs can see a thousand fold increase over graphics cards for the same volume of space and power consumption.

If using the current hash rate of the network and assuming this is being done on x86 CPUs, then your numbers can be skewed by a factor of over one million.

Most of these platforms are open source. You can very easily open up the code that is running on your computer and look at what it is doing. The only one that really tries to create a computing network is Etherium… And its performance is incredibly limited.

>>853284

The energy estimates for bitcoin alone are all directly from the source, a large website which deals in bitcoin news and tracking. Actually read the article.

(repost) https:// digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

FFS.

>>853340

I will trust physics before the claims of any website. That said, even using their numbers, the math of the OP is wrong.

A kilowatt hour is one kilowatt consumed for one hour. It is a unit of energy. A house uses far more than 12 kilowatt-hours in a year, which is the unit of time provided by the website for the Bitcoin network. To put this into perspective, the way the OP frames the math would have the average house drawing no more than 35 watt-hours per day… Or a little more than one watt on the average.

Seeing as this is less than the average cellphone, these days….

So, we have to start there. The average DAILY draw of a western residence is

12kilowatt hours, corresponding to an average draw of 500 watts continuous.

To translate into the original math problem, this means 4,380 kilowatt hours is more typical of a western home for yearly draw… Or 4.38 megawatt-hours.

The problem is also that they are trying to translate market capitalization to energy consumption… Which is outright absurd.

We need to be clear on what metric we are using. Terawatt-hours do not mean that someone is using terawats of installed capacity. Units of power are different from units of energy. Going from what the OP is suggesting leads us to the idea that Bitcoin networks are sucking up terawatts of generating capacity… Which is just not possible given the requirement to build power plants.

>>853769

>>853769

>>853769

Yes also, due to small block size, I would assume that BTC uses much more power/marketcap than any other major coin with reasonable sized blocks. (In the long run anyway)

Sheeeit, I missed the per year. Fuck me

>>853860

Possibly, but I see absolutely no reason to attempt to relate market capitalization to energy use. A lot of miners use hardware schedulers that calibrate to the hardware's hash rate for a given currency and optimize for the greatest price/performance… And many have compounded that with power consumption monitoring to automatically kill mining on certain hardware when the ratio becomes unprofitable.

One could argue that this gives some correlation between market cap and power useage… But market cap will fluctuate wildly in prospective markets while network hash remains relatively unchanged. Mining doesn't occur on a per-tramsaction basis in Bitcoin. Whether the currency is being traded, or not, the network must continue creating blocks.

While there is no question that crypto currency operations are consuming power at an industrial scale, I take issue with the way the source article attempts to estimate power consumption and also with the way the OP attempted to translate this estimate into an example.

Global electrical capacity is around 5.2 terawatts… Or over 45 petawatt-hours of energy production worldwide per year, and climbing.

Bitcoin mining at the estimate provided constitutes around .1% of the world's power production. Massive for any single task, but still very small compared to, say, steel/iron mining.

>>854089

It happens, Anon. And it is not always clear what units of power are able to be directly translated.

Solar power systems can be a math nightmare because of this. Average versus peak… Peak draw times versus time of year versus installed storage…. You're not cooking dinner and cleaning up after work when it's high noon.

No sympathy at ALL.

Just don't do it (as Nancy R. said almost 40 years ago).

Buyer Beward

Particl.io

https:// particl.io

The guys begin it? Anons from 8ch (some of the most amazing programmers I've ever seen)

Their goal? Destroy big tech.

100% fully decentralized privacy tokens

Even offering a Marketplace to compete with Amazon (Video Related)

https:// thegoldwater.com/news/20954-The-Internet-Bill-of-Rights-Petitioning-the-White-House

Article Related

I'm an anon who knows quite a bit about cryptocurrencies, having invested a lot of time in those.

First of all, I'll try to recompute the results of yours. I heard once in the media, that the entire Bitcoin network uses as much energy as a small European country-state (I don't remember which one).

Let's only compute Bitcoin for now, for the sake of an experiment. The current Bitcoin hash rate is: 24,785,843,885 GH/s[1]. That's quite a lot.

Let's (falsely) assume that everyone uses the most efficient miner available[2][3]. The miner uses 1480W generating 16TH/s. This would mean that the entire network consumes 2.1 GW. Now, multiplying that by 24h, we get 52 GWh. A year we get 18980 GWh. That would make it 1/1000 of world consumption and places Bitcoin electric consumption between Nigeria and DR Congo[4]. That itself is a lot and speaks volumes.

Surely, my computation describes only Bitcoin and in the most optimistic fashion. Let's assume an actual number is about twice as big, so now we get between Bangladesh and Philippines.

[1] https:// bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

[2] https:// www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/hardware/

[3] https:// www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/hardware/dragonmint-16t/

[4] https:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_energy_consumption

The second currency is Ethereum, which is mostly mined on GPU for now (AFAIK), but Ethereum is about to migrate to a green "Proof-of-bet" scheme, akin to "Proof-of-stake", where you don't waste your CPU/GPU/ASIC cycles to calculate meaningless SHA2 hashes (like Bitcoin does in its "Proof-of-work"). Will that improve the situation?

In my opinion, not really, as the cryptocurrencies are actually a greed-based economy. In addition, Bitcoin was devised a long time ago and all recent tries to upgrade Bitcoin resulted in forks and disagreements in addition to boycotts by the mining industry (which itself has grown really big). If Ethereum happens to migrate (without a miner boycott) it may cause a flood of cheap GPUs… to be reused in other mining… or AI endeavours. But it's just Ethereum.

I used to be interested in cryptocurrencies at large, seeing as they are a) easy to use, b) free people from a need to use banks. Now I see it's not much better, it's yet another banking scheme, but a much less regulated and a lot less greener. What is more, I'm quite afraid, it will be used by the General AI. Right now I see that the only way to fix economy is to get rid of a so-called parasitic element, but at that point of time we won't actually need money at all. How can we do that? Maybe by creating small societies that are possible to be guarded against the enslavers. I'm a big fan of unregulated money schemes, because I'm a freedom fighter, but they won't work while we have at least one parasite (and by parasite I mean an unethical member or otherwise a criminal - well, they are allowed to use the banking system as well, but in the second one they may be regulated).

Did crypto actually bring some kind of freedom? Yes, of course. It also created fresh billionaires, who aren't related to the cabal. It also created a lot of people who lost everything (look at all those failed ICOs). It also allowed a lot of new high-tech crime possibilities (see eg. ransomware). I'm sure one day cryptocurrency technology will make country states much less needed, itself freeing people a lot. But, as of currently, it won't free us from the banker supremacy, it will just create new bankers - independent ones, but they are still likely to form a new cabal. In my humble opinion, people need to look at money in a different way, mostly as a mechanism of value transfer, not a hoarding scheme and that loan resets should be a tradition, possibly with a way to issue your own bonds and a locality preference. I don't see how that can be possible with Bitcoin. But well, I'm a dreamer… or rather I'm fed up with banging the wall with my head trying to stop and reverse the current trends of ultimate centralisation of everything.

Let me help you all

points of note:

1. Is Bitcoin Public or private?

2. Can you launder bitcoin when everyone can see the blockchain and everything is recorded?

3. Who controls what happens to bitcoin?

4. Do you know who they are?

5. Does anyone?

6. IS Bitcoin efficient?

7.Could it have EVER replaced any payment system? Would anyone have thought it could?

8. If the blockchain is SUPPOSEDLY made up of people guessing the next part of an algorithm, the answers being confirmed by the largest producers, and the chains are of a fixed length, why are people wasting processing power guessing strings when they could just generate all of them into a file and constantly guess which one it is from a predetermined finite set? wouldn't the real bottleneck be bandwidth?

9. Does it seem to you as if someone is using the processing power to do something else?

10. Who would know?

So What do you think is happening with bitcoin then, considering all of these things?

Disclosures first: I still mine cryptocurrencies and i have participated in the economy.

So, to me, the idea behind money was a trick to convince us our time was not the valuable thing and is something to be traded. The first flaw in bitcoin I see is that we are taking the human work out of the economic cycle, so anybody who assumes a fiduciary responsibility for the system will be motivated to act in favor of whats best for machines instead of humans, as the machines will be the ones running the economy.

We know the economic recessions have been planned and we know that there is another one planned that may or may not come to fruition. The timing of bitcoin is pretty spot on for this and the propaganda put out along with it really have set it up to be the popular "choice" when the time comes to crash the current system. I tend to believe everything is an act or a show now so to me the part of the script where it says "enter bitcoin" seems a little too perfect, i mean, "oh my god, somebody who loves the internet like i do and hates banks like i do made a currency that I control, how perfect! right?!?! But that's conjecture.

We also know about the backdoors to intel products, amd products, I haven't heard if it gets to Nvidia but im gonna take the safe bet and say they are balls deep in it too. That means its not private, its not secure, and the computers that we thought are ours aren't. I've also heard it applies to ARM processors so right there you have all of bitmain, which is basically all of bitcoin, bitcoin cash, litecoin and some smaller alts that can all have their mining hardware forcefully patched. I also read a report about how there are some 3000 different mining locations out there who haven't even switched their bitmain products from the default root/root user/pass.

As for the power consumption part I think that fits in perfectly. Energy has always been a leverage point for the elite and in my opinion JP Morgan really set the tone when he told Tesla that he wasn't interested in free wireless power because he couldn't put a meter on it. What's it matter if we can print our money if we have to buy the raw materials from the same fuckers as before? We aren't changing masters, they are just allowing us to think we are. Solar technologies will continue to stagnate, Illinois attempted to tax residents for generating wind power and I don't know if it passed but I would expect more of the same. They will ease their grip on one side of the equation, but choke the other side.

I can also see a progression toward people wanting to implement blockchain for governement and then wouldn't that just be the best? we wouldn't be able to vote without paying the power companies. Can't wait. Fuck me. I should stop mining.

>>860391

>I should stop mining

Yes you should start staking Particl.io

Paranoia is always 99% misdirected. These boards provide ample evidence of that. Finding the 1% that happens upon a useful idea is the trick.

To wit: whatever bitcoin is, it is NOT the creation of some clever japanese kid working in his mom's basement. It's a sophisticated engineering solution that is likely the product of a top research lab. Who's capable of that?

It's most nefarious aspect is NOT, I assure, how much fucking power it takes to run all the mining boxes.