/k/ - Weapons

>>600165

What do you mean we?

germany?

The javelin missile seems like just a video game missile but I've seen it in action and it is the real deal.

I think the question is

"Why do countries use outdated weaponry"

Money.

If you watch the movie Lord of War, you will see how it is possible to still make lots of money even on ak-47s, but you don't seem to be making an argument against that?

So what is it about MILAN that you hate so much?

>>600167

Estonia, India, Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain and Turkey use it.

Germany and France are officially only starting to adopt replacements in small numbers.

Not counting all the third world nations that use them simply because the big players are trying to get rid of their old stock.

I don't hate it, I am just curious what aspects about the Milan made it last so long. Weapon systems that last this long are quite rare, and there has to be something about it that makes is still "acceptable" by modern standards besides the price.

>>600169

Are you sure that you're not upset that you're, slowly, adopting the (((EuroSpike)))?

>>600170

Not really. I haven'd had a chance to use it, so I can't comment on it's capabilities. It does appear to be a version of the Spike though, which is still 20 something years old.

Did AT missiles just hit a peak and can't be improved further without increasing price to "$$prohibitive$$"?

>>600165

Germany kept pushing for MILAN 3 to be solely manufacture in Germany despite the entirety of German ground missile tech came from tech transfer from France (and the rest from the US… in b4 WEHRBOO STRONNNKKK), which delayed shit for about 20 years for HOT/MILAN 2 successors.

France finally said fuck it, split MDBA Germany from main MDBA, developed the MMP that are being adopted and are hands down the best ATGM in existence and will likely be bought by everyone using Milans.

The range and power of Russian ATGMs with the multi mode and guidance types (and more) of US/Israelis.

Meanwhile Germongrels will probably adopt Spikes or whatever the US replace Javelins (or just nothing, it's germany…) with while taunting their uber-prototypes that-don't-really-work-and-nobody-buys-but-look-great-on-a-prospectus…

>>600176

sound legit and totally not like idiotic-nationalistic bullshit

>>600179

Because you lacks examples of "let's not buy french tech we can make it way better but in fact we can't"?

Tiger Mauser autoguns?

Infantry heavy ATGM (Eryx class)?

Eurofighter?

>>600181

will you come up with any arguments one day?

>>600192

Out of interest, what do you think nations should have been using rather than the Milan?

>>600165

>Why don't we see some new missile systems developed to counter eastern armour and active protection systems?

>Hey goy, why don't we see some new missile systems from our crumbling brown shit holes to murder White people minding their own business?

>>600169

>Weapon systems that last this long are quite rare

I hope you are not seriously suggesting this. The fucking M2 HMG has been in service since the 1920's at least, possibly earlier. B-52 (even if they are modernized) are still flying 50+ years later. AK are still fundamentally the same gun they were in 1947, again with modernization upgrades, as are the AR-15/M16/M4 and AR-18 derivatives, which have been in service for 50+ years.

As for why they aren't replaced? Any potential adversaries are not fielding equipment that would warrant a newer ATGM.

>>600165

>save the home made stuff for later

No

So anons, I've been thinking of making an RPG-2 for keks. Seems much simpler to make than an RPG-7, comparing both ammo and launcher. How easy would it be to fabricate a tube and use a preexisting demilled RPG-2 as a guide and parts donor? Seriously considering getting a NFA trust and form 1 sent out if this turns out to be a nonshit idea.

>>600233

>So anons, I've been thinking of making an RPG-2 for keks

So, literally just a Panzerfaust 150 with a pistol grip and improved sights? Cool. Post photos.

>>600240

>post photos

Will be about a year before its approved, but I'm glad to know its not a totally retarded idea.

>>600165

The same reason why TOW and Konkurs are still in widespread use: the military has a very limited procurement budget, and our current wire-guided ATGMs are still effective enough that we can't justify the huge cost of replacing them.

>>600181

The fuck are you even talking about, Eurofighter/Rafale was 100% France's doing (they did the exact thing you accuse Germany of doing, throwing an autistic shitfit because the committee wouldn't let France basically hijack the program) and I have no idea where you were even going with that ERYX comment.

>>600336

>Go to commiefornia

>Scrape pozloads off gay bar floors

>Load them in

>Enjoy new chemical weapon

>>600345

Fuck, meant biological weapon. Although knowing commiefornia, it'll probably be chemical too. Who knows how many drugs are in those loads?

>>600165

Fun fact Russia stopped using MILAN warhead simulants as weapon to test armor in the late 90s (1996?) and switched to a RPG on a tripod.

https://analtoday.com/mila-milan-double-penetration/

Not sure if that was because the warhead simulant was too expensive and an RPG was cheaper, or because they think the MILAN is too weak.

Overall MILAN is a solid missile design, there's nothing wrong with it per se. It simply doesn't take advantage of new technologies and techniques to reduce weight, cost etc.

TOW has the same problem, it's fat like a motherfucker, I would rather lug six kornets up a mountain than one TOW.

>>600333 (trips checked)

How about instead of using sheet metal for the warhead, polymer is used instead? TM-62P case was made almost entirely out of polymer and it was a huge weight saving compared to older TM-62 with its metal case. Since I'm stuck using only a certain amount of propellant to remain legal, decreasing the weight of the warhead's shell will allow for a higher payload. Come to think of it, why not use modern polymer for most of the shit like sights, heat shields and trigger housing? They aren't going to be under any stress and can be created in a 3D printer. Should cut down on weight and production cost. This shit deserves a thread on its own. I'll start one when I finally get a sample and tax stamp.

>>600333

>using Amatol

>not RDX

The real challenge though would be the fuze.

>>600336

A mix of acetylene and oxygen. I like my knock off bumblebees, or just go with the standard smokeless with ball bearings in it.

>>600420

>not RDX

For HEAT purpose, the difference is minimal.

Amatol is 7367 m/s, RDX is 8750 m/s, Misznay effect starts at 1500m/s.

Plate material and shape is more important.

>>600183

Careful, Hanz, don't want to get arrested for loving your nation now do you?

>>600176

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_Moyenne_Port%C3%A9e

>5km range

>weights only 15kg with tripod

>can penetrate 1000+mm ERA

>all those other things

The only way this would be even better if instead of tungsten it was a combined HEAT-thermobaric missiles. Would that be possible? I guess in a tandem HEAT warhead the first charge could disperse the fuel, then the second one ignite it.