/k/ - Weapons

just check murdercube.com and maybe even pssurvival.com they have literally everything your little heart could desire

>>575353

>capacity matters

>so buy a pump action 12 gauge

imagine being this much of a brainlet

>>575353

I've always thought this guide was pretty terrible.

>Rifle section may as well be titled "AR-15s Are Da Best!"

>Shotgun section may as well be titled "Just get a Mossberg."

>Concealed Carry section may as well be titled "Buy a brand-new single-stack pistol today, and go cheap!"

despite also saying that when you're in public all you'll have is a pistol. At least explore larger concealable pistols with a more reasonable capacity (Ruger SR series) or something like a used Glock 26.

>Home & Personal Defense On a Budget

>On a Budget

>Hoppe's

>doesn't even touch on knives, pepper spray, home security systems, etc.

>wastes a good chunk of page real-estate explaining calibers despite having no recommended guns in those calibers

>recommends building an AR-15 to people who also need the basic gun safety rules listed on the page

Man, fuck that infographic.

>>575271

what a lovely thread

Any infographs on knive carry or just good knives in general? Especially one that has somewhat legal options for yuropoors too.

>>576029

>wut?

It's an infographic on home and personal defense. Non-lethal weapons and security systems are relevant, particularly in areas where people can't own decent guns, or in crowded apartment buildings, or homes with many children, or in the case of a person being VERY poor, where the most practical means of defense may NOT be a firearm.

I'll concede the point on .22 and .380, but it could have saved space and simply said "a .22 is better than nothing, but .380 is the minimum caliber you'd want for self-defense."

The handgun section should be expanded too. If you're poor and can only scrape together $300-600 for ONE gun plus ammo, it should be a handgun… because it can defend you at your home AND out in public where you're probably more likely to be attacked.

Rifle section should include pistol caliber carbines. A budget-minded family could be well-defended at home and in public with a pair of Hi-Point pistols and a carbine in a matching caliber and magazine. Also, antique rifles or non-assault-style rifles (Mini-14, etc.) that may be easier to procure.

>>576029

To be fair, line-spacing has been around forever.

Source:Look at any 4chan archive site.

>>576610

They're great if it's something you would use. I carry my girlfriend's wave with me on my belt everywhere. I'd say it's worth the money.

>>576610

Buy nice or buy twice

>>576807

>fourth image

>ricocheting bullets off of hoods

This is some LARPing-tier shit.

>>576812

pretty sure its a joke infopic. Seen much better on /pol/, much less /k/.

>>576812

It can happen but personally I'd still duck

>>576842

I guess that makes sense to a certain degree, although the rest of the "tactical" advice is at least partially sound and not joke-tier. Still, they acknowledge in the first blurb about cars that doors and windshields aren't cover, but then in the very next one it's spouting shit about bouncing bullets on the asphalt to shoot niggers in the legs. What the fuck?

>>576850

The ricochet thing works. There is an old police training video on youtube where they demonstrate it.

>>576850

>What the fuck?

You are thinking in absolutes. The car body may or may not be good cover. If it proves to be good cover for an adversary then shoot under it. Regardless, it will be decent concealment and you might be better served by tagging the piece of meat that you can see under the car versus that which you cannot see. All of this is dependent on caliber distance and other factors. Stop thinking in absolutes.

>>579272

The wax is to gel the fuel and get it to stick to what it splashes on. There are hundreds of different recipes but the goal is something similar to napalm.

>>579214

Cars are shit cover, but can provide life-saving concealment. The engine compartment is best, and will stop a lot, but it depends on where hit.

>>579323

Oh, and nobody mentions DEFLECTION - it's a third aspect, after concealment and cover. If you are far enough away from the car and some other types of concealment, you may benefit from deflection.

>>579302

KB6NU's guide suck ASS. Just get the arrl license book for your appropriate license and you'll actually understand wtf the test is about rather than cramming answers and charging for it. Although to be fair, I got my license 2 years ago and haven't been on air once.

>>579302

Thanks!

>>579272

I was always told that the oil was put in molotovs so that they would stick to what they hit, so I just assumed that the wax is a way to get a similar sticking effect if you don't have oil

>>580704

Each individual pellet would be equivalent to a .22 long rifle.

Soft lead, no jacketing aiding in penetration. No hollowpoint or expansion dumping more energy.

The speed is abysmal, subsonic, roughly equivalent to the above mentioned caliber out of a 3'' barrel.

Accuracy depends on grouping, but is generally very low compared to even pistols with 3'' barrels.

Also… just because there's a lot of pellets, doesn't mean we can shoot for a long period of time, keeping home invaders at bay while police gets there…

Given all of this how can you say a massive unweildy gun is somehow superior to a palm sized pistol that has the same effect?

>>580922

>imblyign buckshot has less energy than .22 LR

>imblyign a .30 or .33 wound channel isn't bigger than .22

>imblyign buckshot can't penetrate flesh

>imblyign 81 holes in a guy is not significant damage

>>>/4chan/

>>>/reddit/

>>>/die/

>>580922

>each individual pellet would be equivalent to a .22 long rifle.

No, no it wouldn't

>soft lead, no jacketing aiding in penetration.

>no hollowpoint or expansion dumping more energy

Right, so it would have too much expansion and no expansion simultaneously? How can you argue that it's shit because "rooooo, it's soft lead, so it will expand too much and won't penetrate" and then follow it up with "it won't expand"? Those two statements are literally completely opposite to each other.

>accuracy depends on grouping, but is generally very low compared to even pistols with 3'' barrels

>muh accuracy

>at 10 yards

>implying you can shoot a .22LR pocket pistol more accurately than a full length shotgun with a stock and a much higher sight radius.

>also… just because there's a lot of pellets, doesn't mean we can shoot for a long period of time, keeping home invaders at bay while police gets there…

>keeping them at bay

Most home invaders run as soon as they think that there's any slight form of resistance present, and If they don't run immediately upon getting shot at, then the police turning up will most probably not dissuade them either.

>given all of this how can you say a massive unweildy gun is somehow superior to a palm sized pistol that has the same effect?

Because pocket pistols don't have the same effect and are much harder to shoot accurately, also most pistols overpenetrate through hard barriers. And a shotgun isn't exactly unwieldy especially here, where the minumum barrel length is only 12", not 18", you're not going to be doing super dynamic motion like jumping out of helicopters or armoured vehicles inside your own house, crouching behind a sofa or peeking around a door frame at most.

hammock camping is a meme

>it's difficult to get in and out

>you have to maintain level

>you sag down anyway and need some type of ground pad anyway

>shiity protection from insects unless you buy some premium snowflake hammock

>>580984

>>580986

Judging by his statement of 81 pellets, he's talking about 00 buck.

Each individual pellet of 00 buck has a similar mass to .22lr, and a MUCH lower speed (about 800fps lower), and the pellet also has a lower sectional density. The 00 buck pellet is really similar only to the SIMPLEST .22lr bullet, pic related, fired out of a very short barrel pistol that sacrifices about 45% of its speed. If it has a hollow point it would expand beyond the diameter of a 00 buck pellet.

Some .22lr are plated with brass, which makes the bullet tougher and more capable of penetration. Only a steel 00 pellet would have similar penetration, but much lower mass because they're made of steel. No one I ever heard of plates lead shot.

>Right, so it would have too much expansion and no expansion simultaneously?

Do you know the difference between a pure lead bullet, a jacketed bullet, a pure lead hollowpoint, and a jacketed hollowpoint (JHP)?

A pure lead bullet doesn't "expand" in flesh, that's retarded.

>implying you can shoot a .22LR pocket pistol more accurately than a full length shotgun with a stock and a much higher sight radius.

I don't know if you can since I don't know you, but I certainly can. I can actually shoot a .22lr pistol with a tighter group at 25 yards without using the sights at all, just lining up the pistol with my forearm.

But then again my shotgun doesn't have a choke, I think I mentioned grouping differences in the original post.

>Most home invad

So just buy a plastic gun and wave it around, I'm sure it will scare most home invaders. Most people never experience a violent crime so I guess you don't even need a weapon for protection by THAT retarded logic. People who buy guns don't worry about "most" likely situations, we worry about the worst 5-10% of situations happening to us or our families.

>overpenetrate

That's just rubbish, there is no .22lr pistol that's going to go through even an apartment wall and snipe a baby in the eye. You'd have to go to maybe 5.7mm for that level of penetration.

>minumum barrel length

I'm sorry but I give not a single fuck about your laws. We're discussing what is a better weapon for home defense period, not what is a better weapon for home defense in UK, or France, or Jamaica. I don't have enough time in my fucking life to become a lawyer in a hundred different countries just to have a discussion with you. That's asinine.

Apartment or home doors, hallways, furniture, none of it is made to hold or maneuver a 20-30 inch gun in.

>>581010

>800fps

Fuck off retard.

>>587562

nice oc, saved

>>581010

>22lr similar mass to 00 buck

22lr standard mass is 40gr.

00 buck 53.8gr

Hmm sounds like a 34.5% difference.

Would you say a 200gr and 269gr bullet have a similar mass?

Velocity

12ga 00 buck 1-1/8oz, ~1200fps

22lr 40gr, ~1200fps for standard loads from RIFLES, from a pistol your looking at 800-1000fps depending on barrel length.

Single 00 pellet, 172ft-lbs of energy, pretty much a 380 acp bullet for energy and diameter

22lr from a rifle, 128ft-lbs

22lr from pistol, 89ft-lbs

>pure lead doesn't expand

.t never hunted

Shotgun pellet are soft and expand pretty rapidly.

>never heard of plated buckshot

That's because your retarded. Just because your clueless doesn't mean things don't exist.

>22lr pistol easier to shoot more accurate

This is bullshit. Shotguns can group like a rifle if you want them to, even buckshot.

Home invasion section,

I agree I'm not the guy your responding to.

Penetration,

Also agree, shotguns will pen much further than 223 rifles and 22lr anything.

But 5.7 will penetrate very little aswell because it'll dump energy extremely fast.

22lr is objectively worse than a defensive shotgun, simply because 22lr is a rimfire.

If we are talking best home defense weapon, SBR ar15.

00 buckshot not only has more energy then 22lr, it also has greater diameter. 00 buckshot does more damage than any 22lr, the closest thing you can get to 22lr in buckshot pellets is #4 buckshot in terms of size, which may lack energy but still punches similar/bigger holes. #1 buckshot is the same weight at 40 grains, and is the base minimum recommended shot size for defense. I can also pack 54 pellets of #4 into a 10 bore shell and 24 pellets of #1 in a heavy 10 bore load.

Soft lead pellets not only deform in animal and human tissues, they deform in air. Plated buckshot not only has superior lubricity than lead shot, it helps to keep the lead from deforming so it will pattern better. My gel tests I've found copper plated BB that were nowhere near a nice neat circle.

You are wrong on 223 penetrating less than buckshot. CERTAIN high velocity bullets MIGHT fragment in hard barriers and prevent collateral damage, but if the bullet is built well enough and the velocity low enough, it will punch through more hard barriers than 22lr or any buckshot. Someone with an SBR and green tips is in perfect shape to have bullets that miss fly long and through a lot of things and create a worse scenario. Even with bullets that are more apt to fragmenting, the lower the velocity the less likely they are to fragment. If the bullet goes slow enough it will stay together and keep punching through things, becoming a big 22 that is even more dangerous to others. One argument to use a full size barrel in 5.56mm is that it helps ensure bullets will hit hard enough to break apart, a 10.5 inch barrel is more likely to have shoot throughs than a 20 inch.

Use a 5.7mm with the wrong ammunition its the same. It was built with certain rounds in mind to pierce soft armor and will punch through hard objects to some extent. Remember, the rounds you put through a person are less dangerous than the ones that miss. Bullets lose a lot of force after hitting someone, its not the over penetration through a man that's the biggest threat, but the ones that miss the target entirely.

A shotgun can still be seen as a highly valuable self defense gun because it is consistent, unlike .223 performance. Buckshot always does the same thing, and even if it can pierce through some hard barriers, its a very poor performer in this regard. Buckshot will always fail after so much barrier, .223 can either fragment or punch a long, dangerous path. Buckshot is shot for shot better for stopping and attack. Shotguns are also easier to operate by non serious shooters who don't clean their guns and learn to use them very well. For some people, the shotgun is the ideal choice. Also most people in home defense aren't running around cutting pies and hunting the bad guys, they are staying put defending themselves, family, ect. A longer gun can work in home defense.

Also yeah 22lr is a shitty choice and should never be defended. Its a poor performer for stopping attacks, rimfire with poor reliability, and people who are more physically incapable and what a firearm for self defense would be better served with a pistol caliber carbine that is very low recoil and easy to shoot as well as 20 gauge shotgun.

>>575353

Wasn't there a newer version of this guide with more guns?

>>593709

>leave your phone at home

Great so all NSA has to do is find every phone in a residential area and correlate with those phones that did not move a single inch during the entire riot.

You can't escape metadata that easily.

>>593721

1. That's circumstantial evidence at best

2. Most people avoid riots and demonstrations, so the 'his/her phone didn't move all day' argument becomes a moot point.

3. Without additional evidence all they can prove is that you left your phone at home. No judge or jury would convict anyone for that in and of itself.

4. Even if they know you committed a crime, they have to prove it in court. A fuck load of criminals get away with everything up to and including murder because the police can't find enough evidence for a prosecutor to secure a conviction.

5. What's the alternative? To take your phone (and more importantly its inbuilt GPS) with you?

>>593721

Lots of people have been convicted with their phone being used as evidence.

I seriously doubt anybody has been convicted because their phone *couldn't* be used as evidence.

>>593764

>Lots of people have been convicted with their phone being used as evidence.

Including that blond brat from the Harry Potter movies when he decided it would be fun to take part in the London riots a few years ago.