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/k/ - Weapons

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There's no discharge in the war!

File: 191c581c9b81961⋯.jpg (141.81 KB, 960x720, 4:3, jo8jbkavszqlund8l5wj.jpg)

File: c8cb6f0a944804d⋯.jpg (124.36 KB, 960x540, 16:9, gqiyfrahy4g19ux9d5th.jpg)

b0f28a No.574394

What do you think of using rocket systems to replace sniper rifles?

af0884 No.574416

File: 4746aca28c21a72⋯.png (82.23 KB, 842x792, 421:396, 1513004524001.png)


41ab89 No.574418

File: a7dc78a936077a6⋯.jpg (67.24 KB, 517x650, 517:650, 1486263803563.jpg)


c9a367 No.574425

File: 3565400a15af1a5⋯.gif (271.03 KB, 400x320, 5:4, explosion intensifies.gif)

Is that a grad shell launched from a fucking ladder?


005b3b No.574430

I mean if you don't care about things like "collateral damage" or "civilian causalties" then yeah, using rocket artillery would be great for "sniping"


41ab89 No.574431

File: 6ae9ebdc1a11d53⋯.jpg (206.6 KB, 1920x1044, 160:87, 3c3518e812861605b5fabc9495….jpg)


f5fbb7 No.574437

File: c6e477651c04535⋯.mp4 (5.05 MB, 640x360, 16:9, slav sniping technique.mp4)

>>574394

Now you're thinking with CYKA BLYAT!


b0f28a No.574438

File: 8fd25b0cde822ad⋯.jpg (272.76 KB, 960x540, 16:9, c8cb6f0a944804d9bca6c2ebf5….jpg)

>>574425

Yeeeessss! Isn't it glorious?!

>>574430

Don't forget your own safety, you can see the scorch marks where they launched it from the window previously.


802cbc No.574443

>>574394

the israeli matador that integrates a laser rangefinder for higher hit probability, which could be useful in the role.


7d5274 No.574518

>>574394

Did they at least get out of the apartment before lighting that thing off?

Also if we're going as far as replacing marksmen with rocket artillery then why not use laser guided mortar shells instead?


eedde4 No.574535

>>574518

>not kinetic bombardment


e7f00c No.574544

>>574535

Why not poo?


b0f28a No.574547

>>574518

because someone has to be close enough to target to point the laser.


7d5274 No.574566

>>574547

>What is a drone?

>t. leafcuck


ff8557 No.574591

>>574394

I think that if level IV armor continues to get cheaper and lighter we will eventually need a new projectile to defeat armor. At first armor penetrating bullets will be used, but I think the future will be in creating bolter shells. Let me elaborate on why:

When defeating tank armor, militaries originally used velocity dependent rifles to defeat armor. As the armor improved, the rifles needed to become bigger, and required recoil reducing measures to be able to be wielded. Armor on tanks continued to improve until no armor piercing rifle could defeat them. This is when RPGs, LAWs and other rocket weapons replaced them. Instead of using a velocity dependent system, we used a velocity independent explosive.

The current solution to defeating body armor is a velocity dependent anti-armor bullet. This means range is limited and as the armor gets stronger, special materials will be required, such as tungsten. Requiring special materials for common items like bullets is a problem, because special materials are not only expensive, but in short supply.

When weapons such as medium machine guns are no longer effective, or require special material bullets, militaries will be searching for a cheaper solution. Such a solution will be use of an explosive, given that explosives are much easier to make. However, delivering an explosive to a target with a conventional bullet is difficult. Propelling the explosive up to the velocity required to cover distance means heavy recoil on the shooter.

The solution to this problem is to use a gyrojet. The original gyrojet system was not intended to be an explosive payload delivery system, but rather to be an alternative to lessen the need for quality barrels. It never caught on because of two problems: 1. gyrojets needed time to reach a high enough velocity to be deadly. 2. gyrojet cartridges were expensive to produce due to complexity.

To address problem 1 in this situation, by utilizing an explosive in the tip of the cartridge, the gyrojet is effective at any range or velocity. Furthermore the system can be hybridized, utilizing a short period where the bolter is fired from a cartridge through a small closed barrel, giving it an initial velocity before it begins to travel on its own rocket engine.

To address problem 2, with the availability of automation and CNC manufacturing, manufacturing anything complex becomes inexpensive once the startup costs have been handled. Bolter shells will not require any rare or expensive materials, their cost is entirely based on the manufacturing work required to make them precise. While getting an assembly process in place to make them consistently will take time and likely millions of dollars, once the process is complete the unit cost will continually drop until it is barely over the cost of materials. Given that a military has need for a large volume up front, this means an immediate drop in the per unit cost opposed to if the system were offered to the public first.

Furthermore there will be secondary benefits to this system: Not being velocity dependent means that combining infantry and LMG cartridges into one will be more feasible without the cartridge debate. The weapons themselves will be able to be simplified to blowback, as most of the velocity is developed outside the barrel, improving reliability and dropping weapon cost. Weapon noise will drop, allowing for better unit communication.


7d5274 No.574600

>>574591

Your argument makes sense, but such a radical change in weapons and ammo would only be possible with extreme political will, and a functional procurement system …


ff8557 No.574605

>>574600

I considered that myself, I suspect that the US/NATO will not be willing to change over to a new weapon system. Perhaps Russia will. Honestly I think that the state of small scale home CNC will advance enough that in about 10 years it will be possible for the individual to make such a weapon if they wanted.


0c75cc No.574606

>>574591

>>574600

The cheaper solution will probably be giving every soldier a grenade launcher or something like that. I like bolters like the guy next to me, but as Brit above be said, that won't happen. Besides, most combat nowadays happen is either as symmetrical or goat fuckers without armor shooting at other goat fuckers without armor.


ff8557 No.574607

>>574606

>giving every soldier a grenade launcher

The issue with that is the size and weight of each grenade. It would likely be a stopgap measure, but the issues of weight, limited range and limited ammo would propel more interest in an alternative.

>Besides, most combat nowadays happen is either as symmetrical

I don't expect the change to bolters to happen very soon. It will likely take several decades for the price/weight of armor to drop to the point of being feasible for fielding on a lot of soldiers. This would be followed by the US/Russia giving it to one of their proxies when the other is getting involved in a foreign conflict. The aftermath would then involve discussion about the ineffectiveness of current anti-armor solutions, which would then generate stopgap measures, which would then create the political pressure to consider a new system, which would then lead to development. Overall we're talking about 30-100 years before it happens.


7d5274 No.574609

>>574605

At this point I think there are only two ways this (or any change this big) could happen

>1) During a large, ww3 tier, war one side adopts armour thick enough to shrug off kinetic projectiles; and (after only a few thousand deaths) the weapons are developed and issued (because the relevant politicians put the arms companies balls in a vice, possibly literally).

>2) An arms company somehow finds a way to make more money selling these cheaper weapons than they can make selling existing gear (which was sold at the largest mark up they could pitch with a straight face).

>>574606

That would fit nicely with the early anti-tank paradigm this is likely to follow. Expanded use of grenade launchers and AGLs would be like WW1 armies engaging tanks with general purpose field guns until the first AT rifles were developed and issued. But as >>574607 said this would be a stop gap measure.


6c56f7 No.574620

>>574591

>Bolters becoming real

Aw yisss. It probably won't happen anytime soon but I want this to be real.

>>574605

>Perhaps Russia will.

I think this is the more likely scenario, because crazy shit like this is exactly the kind of stuff us Russians get a kick out of. It would still take some time to develop though, but goddamn it will be worth the wait.


b0f28a No.574629

>>574620

They already sort of made a bolter with the Balkan grenade launcher, it just doesn't have a sustainer.


ff8557 No.574633

>>574609

>At this point I think there are only two ways this (or any change this big) could happen

>large, ww3 tier, war

I don't think so. Countries do not usually change standard infantry weapons in the middle of a war. I do agree some incident has to happen to show the ineffectiveness of current systems, but I suspect it will be something smaller scale. I would imagine in 20 years if the current situation between US/Israel and Russia/Syria were going on the incident to consider change would look like:

<Israel arms their ISIS proxy fighters with light weight American level IV armor

>Syria responds to the attack with AK variants loaded with armor piercing ammo

<Raid is successful, and Russia goes to the drawing board to see how to combat this threat

Furthermore I should mention that you are assuming the sluggishness to adopt new weapon systems is universal. From what I am aware of Russia's policy has been to either match or counteract American/NATO tech whenever possible. While the US won't field another rifle than the AR until strongly humiliated, that does not mean others will.

When I say others, I believe that the individual will be able to make these shells soon. I'm going to be working on making an EDM sinker combined with a 3d printer soon to make an EDM 3 axis mill. This would allow for CNC cutting metal for <$1000. It may also lead to other tech such as using EDM as a gun drill for barrels at home. While the process of making bolter rounds would be slow and need experimentation, the technology may be around long before any military considers picking it up.

If the NFA didn't exist the US would already have plenty of future weapon systems being developed and improved upon in the private sector, as any tinkerer could get to work with testing advanced small arms systems.


6c56f7 No.574635

>>574633

> Countries do not usually change standard infantry weapons in the middle of a war

It is possible if the change is radical enough. The StG-44 was adopted during wartime. And because precision rifles for snipers are low-volume specialty equipment, rather than standard-issue service rifles, it would also be less of a logistics burden to make the switch.


7d5274 No.574640

>>574633

>Countries do not usually change standard infantry weapons in the middle of a war

I'd argue that when you get to the point that standard infantry gear is about as effective as pissing on the enemy that would change.

>When I say others, I believe that the individual will be able to make these shells soon.

Presumably an autistic enough engineer/gunsmith (with a lot of cash) could build something like this in his garage today if he felt like it (and had a way to keep the partyvan at bay), there's a decent chance that he posts here so if we're lucky he'd keep us up to date with the project. However even with the likely improvements and price drops over the next few years there will still be very few governments that are just going to sit back and watch people build these things - America has one of the most pro-gun governments on the planet at the moment, and how would they react if you started producing pipe bombs and HEAT rounds at your home?


ff8557 No.574644

>>574640

>- America has one of the most pro-gun governments on the planet at the moment, and how would they react if you started producing pipe bombs and HEAT rounds at your home?

I didn't mean legally, or talking about it openly. That is why I said the last statement about the NFA. If it didn't exist the US would be able to keep on top of small arms development by allowing the private sector to weed out designs. We've seen anons post designs for improvised guns before, I wouldn't be surprised that if a working bolter shell comes into existence it will be shared, albeit we probably won't be able to see video of it being fired to verify it.


6c56f7 No.574648

>>574644 (czeched)

>I wouldn't be surprised that if a working bolter shell comes into existence it will be shared, albeit we probably won't be able to see video of it being fired to verify it.

A couple years ago some anon posted rudimentary blueprints and CAD drawings for making a bolter shell that could be fired out of 12 gauge actions. Unfortunately I don't have the pics due to an HDD crash.


e9af91 No.574669

>50.000$ Rocket vs. 5$ Round


b5a607 No.574686

>>574669

We're getting gundams one way or another.


7a49ec No.574843

>>574394 (OP)

Russians are working on that. Project looks very like Starstreak with one dart. System has auto-tracking and range of 10 km. Because of auto-tracking it has pinpoint accuracy offhand and doesn't rely on operator's skill. Dart has enough power to punch through modern IFV armor, say hi to your rifle plates.

West fiddling with dumb sniper rifles is soooooooooooooooooo behind e-tech curve of 21th century.


685be2 No.574845

And then you guys complain that we are the ones shitting up the board.


7bc6c1 No.574855

File: bcec58f177193a5⋯.jpg (246.63 KB, 1791x1527, 597:509, Grad-P-batey-haosef-1.jpg)

File: eb2e2ca6c6896e2⋯.jpg (107.7 KB, 740x367, 740:367, CRV7-PG.jpg)

File: e60adc79930cda2⋯.jpg (73.43 KB, 741x369, 247:123, CRV7_1.jpg)

>>574394

>grad rocket

>off a ladder

Grad P does that better.

Also if you want something more "sniper" like, Canada actually fields a rocket system based on CRV-7 aerial rockets, which can be fired off an electric offroad vehicle. See electric means no noise, so this vehicle can sneak up anywhere and just take potshots at enemy, taking out trucks, bunkers, buildings, radar systems, groups of people. We are designing the LMM to do something similar.


a880f3 No.574956

>>574855

>>574855

>we

>mystery flag

are you the deepstate?


7d5274 No.574968

>>574855

>electric means no noise

Until it fires off the fuckhueg rocket artillery, that might draw some attention.


7bc6c1 No.574985

>>574968

Yeah but by the point anyone notices it should already be driving away…

>>574956

I am the deep state.


d36bc6 No.575196

>>574566

>What is a knife?

>t. Britcuck


6f28f2 No.575207

>>575196

>what is a white person?

>t. syrupnigger


7bc6c1 No.575219

>>575196

>>575207

>what is freedom

>t. loyal subjects of the queen


79d07b No.575226

>>575219

>what is humanity

>t. jew


7bc6c1 No.575231

>>575226

>why do i hate myself that i use my own identity as an insult

>t. kike


7d5274 No.575247

File: 517e75a9a37ff71⋯.png (261.42 KB, 500x333, 500:333, Bayonet, in your face..png)

>>575196

A knife? Isn't that sorta like the thing you put on the end of the rifle to make it MOAR CHOPPY!?


6c56f7 No.575251

File: a413fe3591faad6⋯.webm (2.46 MB, 480x360, 4:3, bin_that_knife.webm)

>>575247

If you're going to make that kind of post at least put some effort into it.


7d5274 No.575252

>>575251

Tried to attach that webm, but for some reason the post stuck at 55%, 4 times. Which lead to me picking a smaller file.


6f28f2 No.575255

>>575219

>what is earth's co-ordinates

t. martian


e7eb41 No.575256

>>574669 is 100% right, the costs of using a rocket launcher don't outweigh the benefits, especially with arms companies charging insanely high prices per rocket.


79d07b No.575320

>>575231

>only jews hate jews

>t. jew


99cd69 No.575324

>>575251

feels like a monty python sketch.


c8ca19 No.575350

>>575256

That's because most of those seem to be hand built. If you have a factory that produces them at a rate similar to the rate of wet farts a lactose intolerant person produces after 3 pints of milk, price could go down. Mil Contracts work in stupid ways. Most manufacturers keep the price per unit up from the first batch they sold. Meaning that the rocket in question doesn't cost less if you order more and if the first order was miniscule, you're paying out the ass because of same PPU for the second, larger one.

This is what happened to the B2 and it also explains the prices HK demanded for XM25 and XM25 ammo.

However, if you make it clear that you will be ordering lots and lots of the munition in question from the beginning, price suddenly drops significantly and you can now expect a reasonable price for your ultra long range high value target elimination system, i.e. single missile with either kinetic penetrator or very small explosive charge. Think 40mm halved.


7bc6c1 No.575406

>>575320

I was insulting you, moron, not making a statement. You are officially too dumb to make fun of.




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