/k/ - Weapons

Logistically speaking they're great. One platform, many uses.

>>572134

Sosna aren't dual purpose. It's the replacement of the SA-13 Gopher.

>>572134

ADATS was handicapped by its limited usability in bad weather, amazing platform otherwise.

>>572372

This, laser guidance (at least with 80s laser tech that's able to be placed on a small platform like the ADATS) is great until it rains.

>design lots of specialized systems

>find parts similar enough to be shared across systems

>decide whether compromise in performance is justified by the logistics and manufacturing benefit

Eh?

>>572904

>You can't design an sub machine gun that also works for long range engagements, because both require completely opposite designs.

Is this a challenge?

>>572914

In regards to the URZ and Stoner 63, don't you think it's a bit silly to try and do so much around a single receiver?

I know this autistic shit appeals to you, but why would you want a subgun that converts to an LMG when you are 90% of the way to having two separate systems? Why not just buy a second receiver?

How are you going with your gun smithing course?

Here is a forum you might like: http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/

It's run by that autist Nathaniel Fitch, but is actually pretty good.

>>572914

>Is this a challenge?

What have you got?

>>572914

Do you really want to frankenstein a gun like that?

You could go with a carbine that has a quick change barrel similar to what the HK433 may become, we will see but instead of just installing barrels with different lengths you could also change the thickness of the barrel to make the LMG version more resistant to overheating, and the carbine more even more lightweight.

But a long range "sniper" rifle can not be an sub machine gun at the same time, no. Never. You go ahead and try, but you can't make a submachine gun also function as a sniper rifle or vice versa.

>>572917

>>572916

>>572914

>>572904

It's called the assault rifle retards

>>572918

>he thinks assault rifles are long range weapons

>he thinks assault rifles are used the same as sub machine guns

Go play some more CoD with the other children.

I'm a big fan of the concept just based on logistics and cost, have one chassis for APC / IFV and one for MBT / Recovery. Sure none are going to be the absolute best they could be but you are reducing costs so much you can have more of them.

After all quantity has a quality of its own.

>>572919

>he thinks assault rifles are long range weapons

They usually have longer effective ranges than you can see with iron sights

>he thinks assault rifles are used the same as sub machine guns

They literally replaced sub machine guns you utter retard.

>>572923

Considering the whole concept about extending the range of the subgun to replace the turn-bolt, you're not wrong.

>>572928

>doesn't mean they are "long" range

We're talking about SMGs here, lad, 500-600m is long range.

>Sure, you can hit a target that is 1000 meters away with a G36, I did so myself, but it won't really have a good effect, because it's fucking 5.56 at 1000 meters. Assault rifles are not designed for long range engagements.

5.56 being shit at long range has nothing to do with it being intermediate, it's because it uses velocity dependent fragmentation-based terminal ballistics rather than tumbling. 5.45x39 or .280 British are better examples, both of which are effective at what is considered long range for an SMG.

>but they didn't.

But they did.

>the MP5 is still the most popular weapon in police service

Yeah, huh, almost as if police have completely different requirements to military and almost all of their engagements are in houses or other populated urban areas where the issue of over-penetration is massive and they never need to shoot outside of 50 yards, hence why they used to almost exclusively use handguns and shotguns.

It's also as if they all carry 9mm handguns too and it's beneficial to them to use weapons of the same calibre, huh, really makes me think.

And SMGs/PCCs are getting replaced with 5.56 rifles in police service anyway.

>muh MP7

Mostly limited roles, such as special operations who have similar requirements to cops or vehicle and artillery crews, who would've previously been issued with a handgun anyway. But the Bundeswehr is kind of the exception though, you guys still haven't fully embraced the assault riflepill, despite inventing it.

>just because the French used their FAMAS assault rifle/carbine to replace all submachine guns (and have not dropped the FAMAS) doesn't mean that all sub machine guns have been replaced by bullpup assault rifles.

Not just the French, but the British, US and Russian militaries have all completely replaced their SMGs in standard service with assault rifles in the same manner as the French. Sterlings, M3s and PPS-43s are no longer issued any more.

>>572904

It's secondary function is anti ship, SEAD is tertiary.

>>572923

>4-7MOA

>long range

Please kill yourself. And it's in no way a submachine gun.

Only a fucking roach would take a statement like "two roles must be similar enough to not completely clash with each other" and take an issue with it. You people have never been satisfied with truth or reality, always got to twist it.

>>572941

M4 mil spec is 4 MOA, AK pattern minimum allowable is 6 MOA but it depends on country, most go as low as 4 MOA (they use a non-MOA measurement, ergo its an estimate). There is no assault rifle with sub-MOA accuracy, which is the necessary accuracy to reach the effective range that defines long range engagements. Firearms are judged by their effective range, not the maximum range a bullet travels. Otherwise a shitty 9mm pistol would have a range of 2km because if its fired at a 45 degree angle thats how far the bullet would travel.

You are wrong, and there is a reason everyone in this thread is telling you that.

>>572948

>>572941

Oh and not to mention, assault rifles aren't submachine guns. The entire premise suggesting assault rifles are "long range" submachine guns is incorrect at its root. Assault rifles are a whole new class of rifle.

>>572923

Did you forget what happened to British forces in Afghanistan? The L85 didn't have the range to engage the local Hadjis, and after the complaints got far enough up the chain they were issued 7.62mm DMRs. Besides, what sort of faggot doesn't want to talk about the prospect of a weapon that's as effective at 1500m as it is at 1500mm?

>>572967

I have seem it so many times I don't even look twice these days, people are retarded.

>>572943

>nice shifting of goalposts, mate.

>implying 600m is not "long range" for combat engagements

>inb4 "hurr durr, I was talking about muh esoteric context of shooting at 1000m that I never mentioned"

>but about "long range" in respect to firearms in general.

>in general

In general in regards what? Every gun ever produced? Common civilian guns? Military guns?

>yeah, right? All of those 9mm service pistols the Military uses can share the same ammo with normal sub machine guns.

>military grunts

>getting issued pistols

>ever

Nice me.me

>no. They are not being replaced by 5.56 rifles. They are being replaced by 5.56 carbines

>carbine doesn't fit my esoteric definition of what I personally consider a rifle

It's still a rifle. The M4 doesn't suddenly stop becoming a rifle because it has a short barrel. "Carbine" is a massive meme term that can mean pretty much anything too, it shouldn't be considered as an actual designation.

And still, SMGs are being replaced.

>there is a massive difference between a carbine and a rifle

No there isn't

>a carbine solves the issue of over-penetration

A barrel that is shorter by a couple inches doesn't reduce the muzzle velocity to the point where there is a significant effect on penetration.

>the French dropped the FAMAS and are now switching over to HK assault rifles and MPs.

>MPs

Care to provide a source?

>the US special forces use sub guns to this day

>m-muh SOCOM still uses them

And? Like I said earlier, they have specific mission requirements. The M16/M4 completely replaced the M3 in every other role.

>the Russians got their AKUs

An assault rifle or "carbine" if you want to argue semantics, not an SMG

>and the pistol caliber derivates thereof

Only used by the MVD, not issued to any members of the actual Russian military

>the only reason the Brits won't stop pretending like their SA80 is a piece of shit they should replace is because they don't want to be dependent on German imports if SHTF

That doesn't make sense, if SHTF was to occur, we would still be dependent on German imports for new SA80s, the factory that produced them here shut down.

>>572948

>these two specific guns made by spics and drunken slavs aren't super accurate

Huh, who would've guessed

>there is no assault rifle with sub-MOA accuracy

>get sub-MOA AR

>slap a full auto lower on it

Or, alternatively, just look at the LMTCQB16 the Kiwis are adopting with 77 grain ammo. Civvie shooters report between 0.75 and 1.5 MOA using 77 grain ammo in LMTCQB16s.

>which is the necessary accuracy to reach the effective range that defines long range engagements

For an individual shooter maybe, but the MOA of individual rifles doesn't really matter at long range with sectional engagements, but the whole argument of "does 4 MOA matter?" is a moot point anyway, because outside of 3rd world shitter rifles, most rifles have decent accuracy.

>you are wrong, and there is a reason everyone in this thread is telling you that.

Because they're leafs and krauts. And argumentum ad populum doesn't exactly work when you consider two people to be "everyone".

>>572956

>5.56

Read my post above. 5.56 and .poopoopee becoming .22 at anything past 100 yards has nothing to do with assault rifles, it's the cartridge. It wasn't that 5.56 was too inaccurate or just dropped out of the sky, it just had no effective terminal ballistics.

We needed a DMR anyway, the whole Russian doctrine of the SVD is kino, and the LSW just wasn't cutting it

>>572967

>>572970

To be fair that thing is in 9mm and its probably got some Valmet magic going on.

>>572939

>su-25

>anti-ship

lol, no.

If you want to do anti-ship you need very, very fast and fairly smart missiles that can be launched well outside SAM range. It helps if your launch platform can carry a ton of them or go really fast.