/k/ - Weapons

>>571979

Isn't the Pirate Cave gonna have you killed by drowning if it starts raining?

>>571982

If you covered the entrance you have a lower chance, but yes.

>>571982

>Killed by drowning because rain

do you expect it to rain 30 cm in on night?

>>571995

Yes

>>572004

The biggest enemy will be lingering damp, and finding ways to direct moisture around areas which could rot or corrode. Im surprised, being estonian, that you aren't familiar with the heat insulating benefits of submerged or partially submerged housing. Underground houses tend to be both warmer in the cold and cool in the heat, they retain internal climate very well and without heating/cooling reset to a cool but livable ambient temperature equal to that of the ground unless acted on by outside forces. let's go into the earth, viet /k/ong 2020.

>>572010

>50$ for a connectable tent.

It's an okay investment if a militia is gonna travel a lot, but I'm not sure about it.

>>572020

Off the shelf tents are expensive as shit, Anon.

>>572021

Are the sturdy at least?

It's common knowledge that if an army uses it it's built to the lowest bidder.

>>572024

Well how tough are they?

>>572026 deleted previous comment to post updated one

They're army tough which is as tough as it possibly can for the price. It's made of water resistant duck cotton that can be used near campfires without having to worry about sparks melting it, unlike modern lightweight sissy grade tent. It can be stitched easily so it's ideal for long term prepping. It can also be used as a bed

>>572010

I've heard that the Polish ones are better, is that true?

>>572006

No, I know that soil insulates well, it's that I wasn't too sure about how well would retain those properties as Estonia is very humid as well.

A dugout might be a good halfway point since the materials needed for it compared to real houses aren't as high, and it might not be as time consuming as fully underground houses. There's definitely a lot of unused potential in underground housing that isn't really been utilized.

>>572004

Mike Oehler built his underground house in Idaho. The earthship guys live in Taos, NM which can get cold, but their design takes advantage of all the sunlight the southwest gets. They fare well against the elements as long as you take the time to ensure that rainwater isn't running straight into your house.

>>572036

>Mike Oehler

Wow, this is neat. Looks like a really cozy place.

>>572021

>I can buy this dumb german tarp for 40 bucks plus 10 bucks shipping from yurop.

>If I actually want a 2 person tent, I have to buy two of them.

>or I could just buy a regular 2 person tent that costs 35 bucks, doesn't require me to buy 2 of them, and packs out lighter and more compact.

>https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-2000027924-Parent-Sundome-Person-Tent/dp/B01D9EPOG8

/k/'s become more about buying dumbass products that fit the "military merchandise" market than it is about actually knowing shit about how to go outside.

>>572049

You get both bags for less than $50

Yeah you can save $15 for cheap shit that'll turn into swiss cheese when put near a campfire or you can get camouflaged mil-spec, heavy duty German made tent that can serve as poncho, elevated bed or improvised stretcher. Fuck outta here

>>572049

>polyester sun dome

OP wants a camping tent not a backyard spooky stories tent, you faggot.

And fix your spacing if you want to be here, you should know by the lack of voting system that this isn't reddit.

>>572058

That also takes up more space in your pack, weighs more which means you can carry less food, ammo, or other equi, and many people on this board live in climates that aren't in danger of freezing or torrential rains for most of the year and as a result don't need to build a campfire right next to their tents. Just because a piece of equipment was issued by a certain military does not make it a universal or even the best solution to a problem, and plenty of experienced hikers, backpackers, and wilderness campers have no problem using ultralights, and even prefer them for long trips through wild terrain over heavier, more durable ones. Pull the stick out of your ass.

>>572069

There's a difference between hiking and military gear. Hikers go out for a pre-determined amount of time and if their gear breaks then they can always duct tape it together to last until they're done. OP is asking for shtf items for militia. How can you know when it's going to end if ever? For this you need a heavy duty piece of kit that should have multiple uses and shelter should be one of the top priorities and if that means spending a bit more money and having to carry a bit more weight then so be it. I don't know where you live but here we have rain from time to time and all the lightweight sissy hiking gear will not hold up to abuses that will happen to it when used by militia. You end up with torn up tent that will soak you and cause hypothermia. You try to light a fire but it only fuck up the tent even more. There are no shops where you can buy replacement because of rebellion and if there are they're way overpriced. You end up dying from hypothermia because you wanted to save $15 and some weight.

>>571975

Subverting your enemies can be done for free.

>>572074

If you want to establish a semi-permanent base camp to operate a militia out of, there's already plenty of natural resources you can build simple leantos or small cabins from that would offer better protection from the elements than those tents unless you're setting up in the middle of the desert. And meanwhile, if you want to stay mobile and on the move, conserving as much weight and pack space as possible takes precedence, and layering boughs or leaves sourced from around your campsite over an ultralight can provide more insulation if you really need it. I don't know what kind of shitty chinese tarps you've come across, but I have had no problem with setting up campfires near my ultralight as long as I follow the basic rule of having a cleared distance of 3 times the diameter of the firepit in between the fire and the tent, which you would do anyways with a milsurp tent because it's basic camping safety procedures. And instead of having to shove my pack full of two bulky, heavy half-shelters made from dense materials, or having to wear one of the halves as a poncho regardless of weather to save space, I can fit extra medicine, a more insulated but still lighter sleeping bag, food, bullets, cleaning equipment, morale supplements like books or a small instrument (if you're talking about a long term militia, you sure as fuck need some way to keep morale up besides just sitting around a fire talking about how much you hate the guys you're fighting). The reason why the military issued those tents to their soldiers is the same as why the US army decided to issue M14s to troops in Vietnam: cost effectiveness, actual performance be damned. The half-shelters are okay if you only expect to hike for maybe one day carrying them, but past that and they'll be a pain in your ass and you'll be wishing for something lighter. It ends up the exact opposite of your theory crafting once you actually have to deal with humping gear and packs up mountain trails or through thick forests.

>>572119

> there's already plenty of natural resources you can build simple leantos or small cabins

Try building one and you'll hope that you brought one of those tents. It takes a ton of time, calories, makes too much noise and doesn't take a 1337 tracker to know that you camped there after you leave. Once again, shelter should be one of the very top priorities far more important than morale books or "small instruments". You should be able to trust it with your life and hiking tent you're talking about will shit the bed after a slight abuse while my German tent won't even notice it.

Oh, btw my tent weights 4,250 kg while >>572049 4 kg. But since it can be divided in half each person carries 2,125 kg so it's lighter and takes less space than this sissy backyard tent.

Who keeps making these stupid fucking threads? We have the SHTF sperg make a thread specifically to keep this shit in one place. Fucking kill yourself.

>>572151

Go sperg somewhere else. This is interesting thread

>>572158

Judaism is the most cost effective strategy

>>572151

Get the fuck out of here nigger.

>>572039

That Meadow chick is fine

>>572058

>mil-spec

Just means standardized and lowest bidder, and really the latter more than the former.

>>572185

It's not pretty but it's durable.

>>571975

>Making DXM

What's the point, cheap pain relief? Or are you just telling us how to get high?

>>572369

Would probably make for a good trade currency. I immagine trading drugs for bullets and food would be a big thing in SHTF.

>>572369

>Taking 1g of DXM Polistirex, what is the point?

Turning off all the lights, putting on some music, and surfing the universe for the next 30 hours from your bed

>>571975

If you want to become the ultimate asshole force get into mortars.

Nothing screams harassment than lobbing a few mortar shells at someone a day then fucking off in a pickup before they can figure out where you were.

>>572456

Wew nice, might get one then, there are British army ones but they seem to be similar to the German one and everyone I know always says that the Polish shelter half/cape is the best you can get.

>>572461

Homemade MLRS like the Quassam series of rockets also does this. Arty will be a militia's best friend and worst enemy.

>>572061

>le

>Reddit

>spacing

>meme

>>572842

>using le unironically in the CY+3

>>572851

>unironically

Are… are you OK? I'm worried about you.

Where the hell do you get the Stalhelm and frag vest? All the ones I find are overpricedas fuck.

>>573173

It's an outdated infograph, you could probably scoop that helmet for 30-40 on ebay though.

>>572180

Is she /ourgal/?

>>573206

Thanks samefag here. I'll make a new one if you're willing to update me with the info

>>572871

He's spanish, it's not his fault.

>>573287

>flak jacket

Bit shit tbh, you can get good civvie IIIA body armour for cheap, or even stuff like a full set of surplus MkIII or MkIV osprey armour for cheap.

>>573308

I figured that a single flakjacket for 99 dollars is probably cheaper than a carrier with two plates in it, but you are probably right.

>>573287

If we can add a couple to the weapons list that'd be great. See below for blurbs.

M1 Garand

Buy via CMP program, ~600 to 750 dollars for a fine condition one. Sniper variant exists with picanny rail but expensive (950+). Field and service grade are still available. Comparable to cheap AR build but not able to look like muh scary babby killing ASSAULT RIFLE WITH CHAINSAW BAYONET.

DO NOT BUY THE DRILL RIFLE AS THEY CANNOT BE FIRED

M1 Caribine

CMP program. Auction only. 30rd mags are hard to find. If you wanna try your luck they go <600 sometimes (Avg 1k).

>NOTE: Carbines will not be sold or shipped with magazines, slings or oilers.

M1917 Enfield

CMP program. Don't buy. Most quality is worse than the shittiest Nagant for some reason.

>>573429

>M1917

Four things:

One: The CMP hasn't sold M1917s in any significant quantity for a long time.

Two: The CMP ever only had one problem with 1917s, which was specific to Eddystone receivers. During arsenal refurbish prior to surplus, of the rifles that needed rebarreled, the armorers torqued on the replacements too tight, and the receivers tended to develop hairline cracks as a result. Winchester and Remington receivers do not display this problem. That, and the integral ejector springs tend to break easily, which is the rifle's one real flaw.

Three: They're starting to get up there in price. If you're looking for a budget bolt gun, you'd go out and get a $300 Savage, not a $700+, 100 year old collectable.

Four:

ARE YOU TALKING SHIT ABOUT MY RAIFU?

COCKSUCKER I WILL FIGHT YOU

>>573451

Hey man, that's just the impression I got from shooting my friends M1917. You can criticize if you want and add the info to the infograph.

>It's still better than a fucking Tavor

I can't speak for savage cause I never shot one

>>573287

some suggestions, if you're going for full /k/ommando unit equipping.

-your goal is to standardize within reason. consider that you will (hopefully) run into other /k/ommandos. consider that your newbie /k/ommandos will probably die and drop their shit at some point. If your militiamen bring their own shit, you're probably stuck with their stupid. I have had to cringe as my 'squadmates' brought suboptimal gear, no matter how much I tried to show them how much better they could do (at the same cost), and ultimately failed to be reliable. No dude, you brought an 8 round jam o matic, again, I'm not trusting you with wiping your own ass. He wasn't even useful as a corpse since his ammo didn't go with my weapon and his weapon was ass.

-In my warsim experience, when you recruit newfags they bring AIDS to the battlefield and sometimes the best thing you can do is find the one or two that are trainable, and use the rest as cannon fodder. When SHTF there are people supposedly on your side that will happily drop their trousers over the spinning blade and that shit will cover you and yours. Let idiots die if you have to. You can't be captain america, and you can't be captain save-a-ho.

The latter relates to the former, in that you will be scavenging shit off of your own dead, and its way easier if you're all using the same shit.

This means we can move on to removing suboptimal choices.

-Only use budget ARs as primary rifleman gear. You can make a passable AR under 500, and maybe even that with a shit optic.

Slavshit is secondarily useful if you run into slavaboos. The most common rifle in America eats 5.56mm. No reason to confuse things. Don't use a poverty pony lower, you can go cheap on a lot of other shit, especially if you're building your own. PSAs on Aeros wouldn't be the worst thing. Davidson Defense would be. I'm not saying that you would, but no 14.5" barrels with the pin-weld shit, that just fucks up how much utility you can get out of shit ammo (that you are likely to buy/have/find). Go 16" with whatever twist rate makes sense locally based on the predicted properties of your foes' ammo, or go straight on down to using 10.5/11.5 "pistols" to avoid Mr. tax stamp if you want CQB utility in exchange for shaving off 1/3 of your effective range (sensible in urban environments). PMAGs are cheap, but S. Korean surplus mags are basically Gen 2s, and are cheaper. Steel cased ammo isn't a big deal, but you'll definitely want 16" if you're going to use it. Vegetable oil is lube, Motor oil, whatever. ARs can run dirty as fuck as long as you keep them wet.

>no slavshit, especially with import restrictions in effect at the moment

-Fuck pump action shotguns, but really, fuck shotguns. They aren't worth it unless you happen to find one in the field. Low capacity, ammo is heavy, and with pumps, the manual of arms isn't going to get mastered quickly. Non-hardened kiddos are gonna short-stroke the fuck out of that bitch and jam it. Volume of fire is extremely important. Will a shotgun kill someone? Fuck yeah, but make sure it's the other guy. To do that, we have to say "fuck shotguns." They're specialist weapons, and what they are specialized for (I imagine you're using shot here, but slugs wouldn't be a whole lot better) is short range. I think the psychological effect of handing a newfag a shotgun will get him killed, whereas if you spent half the money and got him a Hi Point, he would at least fire twice before jamming, and would recognize that he shouldn't poke his head out to play with enemy riflemen.

>shotguns are better than nothing, but pumps are worse than nothing in the hands of the many retards out there who are gonna fuck up under the pressure.

-Hunting rifles. Hard to go wrong there. Even in an urban clusterfuck, your DM can cover windows, provide overwatch. There is no functional difference between Bubba's Remington 700 and SWATs Remington 700. I don't know enough about common calibers to make a recommendation other than the obvious "Try to match NATO or match LEOs". I know the Savage Axis can MSRP for sub 400.

>Mosins are shit and also slavshit. Hard no unless there is literally no other way to put lead downrange.

>>585025 (cont.)

Armor considerations

-This is gonna sound retarded, and I could very well be wrong, but I think money spent on helmets would be much better spent on budget IFAKs. Rifle rounds fuck you in the head anyway, and the head is a less likely target than your torso and all four limbs.

CAT 6 tourniquets are on sale now that CAT 7s are out (not that 7s are all that expensive). Israeli bandages aren't expensive either. Clotting gauze is a little pricey, as are chest seals, but, with a range of 40 - 80 USD, we could prevent some likely bleedout deaths. Good soldiers are very expensive to lose. Stopping a brachial bleed in time means you might still have a guy who can use his other hand, or at least walk with you to cover. Fish antibiotics, to prevent sepsis in the event you can't get to proper treatment in a timely fashion, are also worth it. you'll also really want to have some immodium handy. trust me. you do not want diarrhea in the field.

->>573308 This Strelok is right about there being good options for armor these days. Flaks are good at staying sub-100, and the IIA protection + pockets/attachments are efficient and economical for that range. Especially if you get one that is also stab-resistant.

That said, if you opted to reduce the helmet/IFAK budget, you could definitely put some of that into a modern plate carrier and some level IV plates, which would also greatly increase survivability.

-Random shit

Probably need binoculars (unless optics cover it), a compass, a bic lighter (if they don't smoke they might not think to have one), vinyl tape (you really never know) and a flashlight, in addition. If paracord is cheap and can fit in the budget, do it.

Regarding the knife; a tactical tomahawk might also be a worthy substitute for said knife in overall utility, while staying in the 20 - 30 USD price range. Same with a cheap multitool.

Those German milsurp poncho-tents an anon mentioned in another thread seemed like a really good idea for innawoods. Wool seems potentially relevant.

You have to make sure that you are defending yourself against the elements as well as humans, because nature never stops shooting at you. She don't give a fuck. Germs, rain, cold, animals, whatever.

>>585025

Helmets have been useful for stopping shrapnel and other head injuries that might not be lethal but will affect you. If things are low intensity you can probably make do without but once explosives are being thrown about you probably want one.

Calibers other than NATO for hunting rifles depends on where you are. Things are regional. As long as the local hunters use it, it should be available enough if you aren't using it for volume.

Hunting optics are generally left alone once you zero them. This is because they don't have perfectly reliable tracking.

>>585031 (cont.)

So let's do a mockup of my soldier. I'm rounding up in some places because I'm lazy/don't want to do the work:

>Weapon: 745 [595*]

Budget AR: <450 *

Budget Optic: <150 [Bushnell, Holosun, etc.]

Korea mags (5): <35*

Sling: <10*

Wolf Ammo (500rds): <100*

>Armor: <250 [100*]

Budget Flak Vest: <100* [Polish, British, modern NATO; we can leave PASGT behind]

-IIA soft armor

-multiple pouches and attachments integrated

Above Budget+ <250

-IIIA milsurp plate carrier

-a few pouches for it

>Max Utility: 99 [50*]

Budget Radios: <20* [I'll borrow your figure]

Budget IFAK: <79

-Pouch <11*

-CAT 6 <20*

-Israeli bandage 6" (3) <19*

-Immodium pills (3days/bulk/unit) <3

-Mixed antibiotics (3days/bulk/unit) <20

-erythromicin

-amoxicillin

-ciprofloxacin

>Utility: 95 [30*]

-Tomahawk/Multitool/Knife <20*

-Lighter <2*

-Vinyl Tape <2

-Compass <8*

-Water resistant LED Flashlight <9*

-Casio watch <11

-Paracord (50ft) <4

-German milsurp poncho tent <40

Biggest Total: <1239 / unit

Smallest Total*: <775 / unit

Target was <800 max, based on your post, yeah?

>>585044

Scavenging comment was mostly cynicism regarding the ineffectiveness of whatever fuckheads I might happen to have in my immediate vicinity rather than hooking up with other Streloks. I assume once we found each other finally we'd be operating somewhat operationally. Lots of dead normalfag friendlies between me and ya'll, most likely. Scavenging off the general dead is a perk, not a strat. Agreement.

Reading up on the M92 and nature of 7.62x39 out of short barrels, I'm impressed. Wasn't familiar. Perhaps slavshit is the/a way to go. I wasn't planning on getting one of those Kel-tec SU-16Cs; it'd solve the portability problem but remove all the modularity benefits of the platform. I also wasn't accounting for having an LMG with us, if so, RPK > M249.

I thought I'd be grey manning just fine with a pistol, but in a combat zone, I see why that's retarded.

I'll definitely look into DIY mortars. Sounds awesome. I'd much rather stay out of the line of fire, and you could obviously build teams around them.

I'm still not a fan of combat shotguns but I recognize they are flexible for special purposes, breaching, as you described. called a "master key" for a reason.

>>585045

I hear that doorkickers fucking hated the PASGT and it didn't have much 'head-knock' protection, so that's why we got the ACH MICH, yeah? I should see about getting one of those.

What do you mean about optics not having perfectly reliable tracking? I admit I know about dick when it comes to shooting with glass.

>>585054

The clicks when you're adjusting your scope don't move the same amount of angle every time. There's error in the amount of angle adjusted and on most lower budget optics when you go over the same adjustment a second time (going back to zero when you doped for range) it will move a different amount.

So you dial in a 10 moa adjustment and the crosshair only moves 9.5 moa. Then you dial back to zero and the crosshair moves 9.8 moa and you are 1/4 moa off zero. This makes most hunting and budget optics a set and forget thing with you holding off if you need to adjust for range or wind.

Red dots do this but you don't touch them after zeroing.

With higher end optics there's what's called a box test where you specifically look for it.

>>585053

Weapon selection depends on your environment. 7.62 AKs and their derivatives are better for innawoods/innacity fighting than an AR with standard M855/M193 ammo due to penetration on brush and walls. However, if there is a lot of open space, 5.56 does much better. PTR/FAL is good for either at the expense of weight and ammo capacity. If you need something compact, you either go with a folder/krink AK or SU-16C. Problem is of course ballistics with the 5.56 in a short barrel. The M92 is just incredibly hard to beat thanks to its size and ballistics. With a brace, it works well as a 0-200yd gun with it being a very good choice for B&E/CQB due to its small size. Down side is the muzzle flash and concussion. Shit is loud as fuck indoors and you'll go deaf if you aren't wearing earpro.

LMGs/GPMGs are nice but honestly its a luxury at the squad level. You don't need to have it to fight but you'll be glad you have it when you need it. There are belt-fed 5.56 guns that aren't as expensive as a M249, but they are unreliable and require belts or unreliable, bulky drum mags. The 75rnd RPK drum is possibly one of the best drums made of its kind. It still jams but its miles better than a beta-C.

>I thought I'd be grey manning just fine with a pistol, but in a combat zone, I see why that's retarded.

Its not if you don't get noticed. If you want a good in between, check out those new micro CZ scorpions. A great PDW for grey man usage. Very lightweight and very small (regular scorpion is the same size as a M92).

>>585086

Sleeper holds, my friend.

>>585086

A bat/club?

>>585086

rubber hammer to right temple, if not down do it again untill success

>>585089

or rubber club

>>585025

What would you, or anyone else, recommend as far as building the cheapest ar that you would trust in the field? I don't want to blow my hand off, but also not looking to pour a couple grand into a rifle that may be stolen, destroyed, or with money that could have been better spent on gear that would have kept me alive longer.