/k/ - Weapons

>>568513

Because they are lying.

Because they are lying and also because being able to put %50 of your defense budget into maintaining 5/6ish 5th gen meme fighters when your enemies have thousands of 4/3rd gen fighters is a stupid defense policy that even the Iranians are too stupid to adapt.

The whole "5th gen" is a forced meme by BEA systems to justify their treasonous waste of military resources.

The jump from biplanes to monoplanes is a true evolutionary advancement in aviation, a slight variation on modern jet design is not a whole new "generation" it's a marketing gimmick.

This is exactly the fucking reason why governments shouldn't rely on private corporations for armament production/research unless it's absolutely necessary.

Sure government arsenals can waste money on ideas and concepts that don't lead to anything, but there hasn't been a single privately owned armament production company that hasn't had to rely on government subsidies to survive in peacetime, so if they're basically funded by the government, why not just eliminate the shareholder aspect and just take control of your own fucking arms production?

That doesn't even mean you need to have state owned production, history has shown that with the right management, a "private" company that has complete accountability to the government (and thus, by extension, the tax payer) is far more effective at producing/researching arms than any fully shareholded private company is capable of.

When you fuck up a project for a privately owned arms corporation, the worst that can happen is a bad investor report and you get fired only to be hired by a different armament corporation.

When someone fucks up a project in a state funded armament corporation, they get accused of treason and investigated to the fullest extent that it can be done.

Which one of these methods do you think is best for ensuring proper and useful/cost effective research into arms?

HINT it's not the one that has kikes involved with it

>>568525

< stupid defense policy that even the Iranians are too stupid to adapt.

> stupid defense policy that even the Iranians aren't too stupid to adapt.

I should stop drunkposting, and i'm dangerously close to reddit spacing.

>>568513

>Since Iran claims that they have the capacity to make a 5th gen fighter on their own

This is like Best Korea saying that "because we can build a single nuke, we can build enough to destroy all of America"

Just because you can build a single fighter with meme aspects, doesn't mean you can build enough to be useful on a military scale.

the funny thing about the G-11 is that, despite it's heating problems, it actually worked.

The reason why the G-11 was dropped is because on a mass scale, used by hundreds of thousands of barely trained recruits, it just wouldn't pan out in a positive way.

It's hard enough to train fighter pilots, imagine having to re-train your entire fighter pilot reserve on how to fly seat-of-your-pants reverse engineered basically prototype aircraft.

There were semi automatic gas operated firearms in the late 1800s, but they were expensive, too hard to train people to use, and almost impossible to produce on a military scale. This is basically completely analogues to this situation (except that semi autos are a valuable improvement where as 5th gen is a waste of money)

Economy of scale is mostly what i'm talking about.

>>568513

They're lying, and as >>568525 said, even if they did have the capacity, modern air forces simply aren't cost-efficient. Third world nations will always be overwhelmed by the USA, or even the less notable NATO members in the air, so what's the point of wasting all that money? It would be like the UK building an aircraft carrier in a pathetic attempt to remain relevant in global affairs.

Long live the Houthi Rebellion. Long Live Hezbollah. Down with the House of Saud and Zionist rats.

>>568565

Acthully generations refers to jet-powered aircraft only.

Gen1 was WW2 era and early Korean War era fighters, from Me 262 to F-86 and MiG-17

Gen2 were MiG-21, Mirage III, F-5A, F-104, and were equipped with a radar and/or AA missiles

Gen3 was essentially gen2.5, with no radical breakthroughs in technology or air-combat dogma, examples are the F-4, the MiG-23, later variants of MiG-21, Mirage F1, Kfir, Sea Harrier etc…

>>jets with fly-by-wire/computers and effective tracking missiles are gen4

Essentially yes, but FBW was not obligatory, MiG-29A/C and F-14 were pure 4th gen designs without a FBW and the Tornado ADV and MiG-31 classify as such due to technological level without having relaxed stability or impressive maneuverability.

>>568525

>enemies have thousands

Using modernized 2nd Gen fighters we could easily have hundreds of thousands of planes for the cost of a hundred or so 5th Gen.

>>568660

For the price of one F-35, you could buy sixty F-5E.

And I bet a team of eight F-5E working together could fuck over an F-35 easily.

>>568692

Well the Burgers want to have at least 1000 F-35's to replace their old airfleet. Just imagine what 60,000 F-5's could do?

>>568513

>Since Iran claims that they have the capacity to make a 5th gen fighter on their own

They really don't, they make parts for their fleet of older planes.

>Why can't they simply reverse engineer the F-14 to manufacture parts for their aging fleet and maybe develop the ASF-14

They could maybe make an upgrade package for the F-14 with an overhauled hull like they do their F-5 to prolonged them.

An Iranian super tomcat might be possible.

>>568702

There was rumor about a decade ago that Russia would provide AL 31F engines for Iranian Tomcats, apparently it did not happen but it would be cool.

>>568694

Didn’t the avionics turn out to be cessna teir.

>>568712

There are lots of rumor about Russia giving stuff to Iran, most of them are 100% BS.

Most of Iranian gear is domestic, Chinese or Norks in origin, they have very few Russian stuff (despite being reported as such it's typically either Iranian copies of Chinese copies of Russian stuff or east European stuff).

It's an internal politics issue, Iranian leaders cannot be seen as too close from Russia or Russia "giving" them stuff because it would be a sign of weakness and a form of vassalism to a western power which the worst thing that can happen to a country or so the religious leadership have been selling to the people for so long.

Iran sell oil/gas to China/NK, they give them tech, it's seen as a fair deal with a foreign power, Iran cannot reasonably sell oil/gas to Russia, meaning there is a political back deal going on for Russia to be nice to them, so people would be angry at the leadership.

Just Russia using an Iranian airbase to bomb targets in Syria, despite an obvious alliance widely reported on by the Iranian press, caused troubles and was seen as an attack on Iranian sovereignty.

>>568513

>heug canards

>meme inlets

>inverted winglets

I didn't think Iran would be the one to make Ace Combat real, but here we are.

COFFIN when?

Is that even feasible?

>>568525

Why does Savage produce better guns than Remington?

Won't the f35 and the SLS rockets be obsolete by the time they produce them?

Why didn't we just build the sea raptor and the fb-22,along with the f22?

>>568701

That's like non-Nuclear WW-III tier right there

>>568692

>>568660

Cost of maintenance > Purchase cost

>>570153

>Is that even feasible?

Why shouldn't it?

>>570170

Because Savage Arms isn't owned by a holding company that tells them to cut corners and do no QC what do ever.

>>568513

Am I the only one who likes how it looks?

Judging from how thick the wings are this thing can only fly subsonic, which is good because judging from how the canards aren't fully mobile it's not supermaneuverable either. God it doesn't even have a HUD. It would be a miracle if it could carry 4… no… 2 A-A missiles in the belly. And look at the cockpit glass distorting the scenery… wow. And the little upside-down R2D2 below the nose… lol can you spell "subsonic"?

I'd be pretty disappointed if the truth is this thing cannot fly at all, but I expect this at this point. Too bad because with the crooked wings and canards it looks pretty kickass.

>>568525

Wait. In that case wouldn't it be better to just refit the planes with better missles and radar/IR systems?? There's literally no point in new features like supercruise/stealth because of the sheer numbers advantange.

Happy late RAF centenary britbong

I saw somewhere that Iran plans on buying 500 MiG- 35 and MiG- 31.

If this is true, clearly the F-14 has only a few years left in service.

>>571500

>F-14 has only a few years left in service.

Don't break my heart just like that, Strelok.

>>571502

We can't lie to ourselves like this.

It's not what the F- 14 would want from us.

>>571503

For the last half hour since I read your other post I've been telling myself

>they won't do that

>they can't do that

>t-they can't afford to by 500 migs

>even if they do, they still keep the f-14's, right

>at least in reserve roles

>or keep using them along with migs

>you can't just kill her

I'M LITERALLY GOING THROUGH THE DENIAL STAGE OF GRIEF RIGHT NOW

It doesn't matter if you can afford to buy a plane what matters more is how eco friendly they are. You can buy the best plane in the world but if you can't pay for those emissions the tax man is going to tally your banana out of a plane.

>>571508

>>571565

Streloks, I'm telling you, she'll be retired soon. Never to fly again.

If Wikipedia numbers mean anything, her fleet in Iran is down by 75% already.

She's dying already.

>>568513

Iran might be able to design, build, and field something reasonably close to a 5th gen airframe but their ability to produce anything close to resembling even a 4th gen powerplant is beyond their reach.

The most advanced components of any military combat jet are the radar and engines. The airframe and materials found in a 5th generation fighter aren't terribly hard to produce. Sure, the coatings and composites used on something like the F-22 or F-35 are too advanced for Iran to produce but alternatives that are reasonably close in performance are well within their grasp. If Iran claims they're able to build a 5th gen fighter, it has to be assumed that comes with the caveat "using Russian sourced powerplants and mostly Russian sourced radar/electronics".

The F110 engine found in the Tomcat might be old but it's still so advanced that it is still being used in new fightera today. Only the abaolute newest designs (P&W F119 and derivatives) objectively surpass it in all around performance. The sheer amount of technology needed to produce components for that engine is practically impossible to acquire for a nation without more than 50 years of jet engine R&D to back it and it's frankly impossible to justify investing in gaining that production capacity when it would only be useful in supporting a literal handful of aircraft.

>>571600

>The F110 engine found in the Tomcat might be old but it's still so advanced that it is still being used in new fightera today. Only the abaolute newest designs (P&W F119 and derivatives) objectively surpass it in all around performance. The sheer amount of technology needed to produce components for that engine is practically impossible to acquire for a nation without more than 50 years of jet engine R&D to back it and it's frankly impossible to justify investing in gaining that production capacity when it would only be useful in supporting a literal handful of aircraft.

Roaches are already mass producing the F110-GE-129? How fucking hard can it be for genetically indistinguishable people, that are technically Aryan instead of raping pillaging and sunni mongolboos, to do the same?