/k/ - Weapons

>>562972

Whatever you're willing to shoot and practice with on a weekly basis.

If you can only afford .22LR out of an Iver Johnson revolver, then it's suitable as a defensive handgun caliber.

If you're not broke AF and can afford anything not a 22lr-

>9x19mm

>.357 magnum

>10mm auto properly loaded

Everything else is either gay as fuck or should be used on bears.

>>562972

Why are you asking? China isn't going to let you own any will you guys declare independence please?.

anything on that list is fine but i'd want a semi-auto over a revolver.

>>562980

Pretty much this. .380 is ok for a pocket pistol if you're recoil sensitive

.327 magnum is also showing promise if you want a wheel gun with more capacity than .357

I have a Makarov and a Tokarev. I originally bought the Mak as a carry pistol and the Tok as a range toy, but I'm finding that the Tok feels much better as a gun to me. Is 7.62x25 bad enough to justify not carrying the Tokarev?

>>562972

What everyone said. You want to stop your target fast, no commonly available pistol round is good at that reliably, so be very conscious of your skills at recoil management and how proficient you're with follow up shots with whatever round you pick.

>>562993

7.62x25 is great, criminally neglected by history and the civilian firearm market.

>>562991

>380 is ok for a pocket pistol if you still need to grow some balls

FTFY

.380 is the smallest caliber I'd choose.

What does /k/ think about .40 SW? I'm buying my first fun and feel like that would be a good caliber to CCW, since it's harder hitting than a 9mm (for what it's worth, considering it's still a peestol), but has a larger capacity and lighter recoil than an equivalently sized .45.

>>563029

>>>/leftypol/

>>562972

>What calibers are defensive handgun calibers?

Despite what HundK will tell you, all of them. It is more of a question of what school of thought you proscribe to: capacity or bullet weight. The 9X19 round is kind of a compromise round already but, with modern projos it is more than adequate. The true fast and light round is the Tokarev, following in the footsteps of the nagant; modern takes have been designed around SMG length barrels. BRNO reigniting the idea with 7.5 FK is interesting. 9mm will continue to be the standard because, it is just good enough and that's all a sidearm needs to be. The best defensive pistol is the same as the best offensive pistol, a machine pistol/SMG.

>>563032

>meant handguns with the Mk23 reference.

>>563022

.40 is "fine". I shoot .40 in 165 and 180 gr. I also shoot 9mm in 115 gr. I prefer the 9mm.

>>563037

Why do you prefer 9mm? Would you recommend it over .40?

>>563038

Easier to mag dump accurately. I can put 8 rounds of 9mm in a target much faster in a tighter grouper then I can with .40.

>>563040

>grouper

*grouping

I think my drinking from Saint Patty's day is still in effect

10mm

10mm

10mm

380 only with an excellent hollowpoint or the fluted high velocity ammo is the bare minimum, nothing less ever. 9mm with a good hollowpoint. anything bigger is better.

>>562993

>I have a Makarov and a Tokarev

>7.62 tok is bad so i'm going to carry 9x18

you are mentally retarded.

>>563023

If srs, the amount of people who went to jail for carrying a 10mm can be counted on a bad carpenter's hand.

>>563031

>implying

>>563022

Why would you pick .40 over 10mm?

Given that all other aspects stay equal: On hot -high speed- loads, the shorter case will need a slower burning powder to reduce the pressure spike. Having a shorter case also limits your max performance with high end heavy rounds (Buffalo bore-like). If you want to mimic .40 power with a 10mm the kick will be less snappy.

Other than cost (around 3-4 cents more per round), there is no practical reason to go with .40 over 10mm.

>>563023

While you're at it, tell us about how great of a feature grip safety is.

>>563058

>While you're at it, tell us about how great of a feature grip safety is.

Why do I need to tell you something everybody already knows?

>>563047

>If srs, the amount of people who went to jail for carrying a 10mm can be counted on a bad carpenter's hand.

Just once is more than enough for me, a responsible law abiding gun owner.

>>563022

40 is still fine, you can get cheap police turn ins in it all over the place. Its recently fallen out of favor, so everyone is trying to shed their stock. If the ballistics really bother you with 40, you're typically just a barrel swap away from 357 sig.

>>562984

> will you guys declare independence please

Words don't mean much without power to back them.

For example Independence Day in Poland is allowed without (((international community))) declaring us North Korea 2.0 just kvetching about 60000 nazis in the Capital city, but there's no way we could remove Stasi BND or CIAniggers from courts or the army.

And even thinking about starting a nuclear program so that both Russia and USA have to rethink their strategy of nuking entirety of Poland as area denial tactic for the other side, would end with a swift liberation

>>562996

t. butthurt kraut about his overengineered gun losing both wars (^:

>needing safety that prevents your gun from functioning when you're in a situation that requires your gun to work

>can be cocked with 1 hand and any surface with an edge

>>563023

> only an idiot looking to go to jail would as ten milimeter

How does caliber choice make you go to jail, ( in a non cucked country that is)

>>564445

It's fuddlore, hence why it's in a Strayan baitpost fellating the 1911. One guy in AZ got briefly convicted after using a 10mm in self-defense, because the prosecution tried to argue he was using a "bullet more powerful than what DA POLICE had." It's the only real case of anything like this happening, and it was overturned not long afterwards.

30-30 is the best ammunition for home defense and small game.

>>563032

Wouldn't using that make the ATF shoot your dog?

>>562972

9mm or above

>>562974

.22lr is NOT suitable as a defensive caliber.

People who say this say "oh, when the attacker gets shot, they'll run away because they were SHOT dude, that's scary!"

If someone is far gone enough to fuck your shit up, they're going to keep coming. And unless you shoot them dead center in the heart or the brain, a .22lr is worthless. You need something that punches.

9mm punches okay. I would say 9mm is *just* good enough.

>>562995

>"hurr durr all guns are weak hurr durr look at me mindlessly regurgitate this truism"

that's because you and everyone who says that never shot anything with a gun

You want to shoot either .40sw, .45acp, .357 Sig, or 10mm. Anyone of those rounds, and you're good to go. 9mm just has too many failures, and .40sw has too good of a reputation in law enforcement, so why even bother with 9mm? Just go for the stronger round out the gate.

>>563022

.40sw is a great choice

1) clearly a stronger round than the 9mm

2) yes, it has more recoil

3) meaningless difference in capacity

4) almost the same exact size grip

5) costs about 3-4 cents more per round, not much at all.

Definitely choose .40sw of 9mm. 9mm has a mixed track record, .40sw has a massively successful record in law enforcement, so much that police everywhere are scoffing at the Current Year FBI's choice to pussify itself.

I like .45 and used to shoot it before .40. What convinced me was the .40's better penetration. Where I shot pigs with the .45 stopped, the .40 went through the animal and did as much damage to the flesh, both using HST, the .45 was even +p.

If I could choose any round, it would be a .357 Sig, but it's so expensive and .40 is itself very good.

>>562980

>.357 magnum

revolvers are straight up obsolete, for obvious reasons. Sorry, bro.

>10mm

love the round, but good luck conceal carrying it. That super light Glock 29, with that 2-finger grip recoils like hell. Very hard gun to shoot, and you better reload because no one properly loads 10mm

>9mm

An obsolete round. We're not in the 1900's when malnourished 100 lb midgits scurried around in trenches. We live in a perpetual warzone of niggers and over-fed knuckledragging imbeciles rampaging everywhere. The only way 9mm could remain effective was if the +p+ pressure became the standard load, but if that were to happen, why not just go .357 Sig? You'd be 75% on the way to .357 Sig.

>>564500

>9mm

>poor service history

>served both world wars and continues to be used worldwide today

>unironically shilling for a piss-water 10mm

>huurr who cares if you lose half your capacity, .40 is better because it's bigger!!!

Have you ever fired a fucking gun, Strelok?

>>562991

>>563011

The rampant .380 hate is something I've never understood. It's a cartridge widely used by military and police in full sized pistols for almost 100 years for a reason: it's completely adequate for close range defensive work especially with modern ammo. As others have pointed out, a "manstopping" pistol cartridge is a myth short of like a .44 magnum out of a 4+ inch barrel, so the idea 9mm or .38 Special are badass killers and .380 is a useless pop-gun is absurd.

It's only in the last few years that 9mm and up has been widely available in a wide variety of small pistols and even now its much more comfortable to shoot out of a light pistol than 9mm. On a range this isn't a huge deal, but shooting in a real defensive situation (say off-hand with an imperfect grip quickly) it may well be an option. Plus its ability to work well in blowback design opens up some more cheap options.

Obviously, if you have a 9 and up and practice with it, great, but "lol .380" is every bit as retarded as "lol only 9mm."

t. I carry .380 and I definitely shoot better with than I do with heavier cartridges.

>>563075

>ou're typically just a barrel swap away from 357 sig.

How often is this true? Can I rebarrel a .40 S&W CZ-75 to take .357 SIG?

>>564445

Paul goes over it in this video, I think. If it's not this one, it's in another video having to do with 10mm.

>>564502

>why not go .357 sig

With jews, you lose. What more is there to understand?

>>564515

Yeah .357sig's parent case is 10mm.

>>564502

>Can't conceal a fs glock or ria

Not everyone wears soyboy skinny jeans bro

>>564502

Also

>Revolver

>Obsolete

It's the only type of frame at the moment that can handle big game killing rounds with the exclusion of 10mm. If all you have is a .357 mag with hot 170gr swcs, you are still well armed.

.50 Action Express from my Deagle brand Deagle Desert Eagle.

>>564445

>>564522

Related talk starting at ~6min.

>>562972

If you expect to be attacked in a crowded area, I believe hollow-points are optimal as they won't go through your target to hurt an innocent.

10mm loaded to maximum case pressure, like the .40 faggots do.

>>564445

>How does caliber choice make you go to jail, ( in a non cucked country that is)

Mixing ammo.

Since criminals don't actually buy ammo and guns in a shop (something we all know but lefties don't) they often have whatever they could find leading to "candy stripes" type loading be it for handguns or shotguns.

So yeah when some faggot tells you you should mix ammo (to avoid a bad batch) for self defense or on a shotgun it's someone that want to see your ass in jail.

Because for law enforcement that shit is criminal intent, because they really have criminal doing that and worse because niggers are retarded a lot of them also do it in hope to confuse ballistic analysis…

On a shotgun it's even worse. You know non-lethal, bird-shot, 00/slug?

That literally mean you planed to kill people, and that past the first shells you weren't defending yourself, you were trying to kill.

Of course it's insane and some sort of extreme twisting logic that only a jew can think of but that's what Law is.

It is not the friend of the responsible regular white guy.

Max loads (17+1) of a good (expensive) ammo and meanest boar slugs in shotguns and then you pump the whole mag in the guy.

You panicked emptied the whole mag of your regular handgun/hunting gun you use for sports and hunting. That's what you need to plan for because it makes it law airtight

>>565069

Is that how France works? Because I've never heard of that in the USA, like, ever. I'm reasonably certain that doesn't apply here.

Birdshot is retarded to shoot someone with for a multitude of reasons but way I've always heard it you want to be "trying to kill" if you defend yourself, shooting to wound/maim is what'll get you in trouble, not shooting to kill.

Seriously I wasn't even aware you cuckolded faggots were able to own a 10mm, you ever even used one?

>>562972

Just drill shooting center mass then head shot.

Draw and shoot drills. Start slow and close. Work on your sight alignment. After you've done enough to make you want to quit shooting forever, start working on speed.

Once you have the muscle memory you should be good to go.

Best all around handgun caliber for defense is 45-70. Your not going to have any concerns about them ever getting up again.

>>565071

The attitude towards mixing ammo is the same for cops in the US

>>565071

I actually went to law school and trust me the same "insane logic", called juridic principles, applies on both side of the sea.

If you are in control of your actions (as demonstrated by your advanced planning) and you kill someone (even if he's the one attacking you) it will be argued that you CHOSE to kill him.

Why didn't you shoot that poor ethnically diverse youth in the leg anon? Because you're a racist POS that has actively planned for murdering people and was delivered the perfect opportunity to get away with it.

That's why in unjewed states you have "castle doctrine" (we used to have something like that against "breaking and entering" at night) and similar protections that REVERSE proof of guilt in the sense that in some situations, like cops, the assumption is that the DEFENDANT (you), is presumed (literally. "it has to be the position of the judge at the start of the trial") to have acted in self-defense making it the job of the prosecution to prove, not that you killed someone (because you did, there is ample proof of that) but that you didn't defended yourself in a manner which ended costing the attacker it's life, but instead that you planned and fought with the intent of taking a life from the get go (which is considerably harder to prove… unless you do the job for the prosecution and drone on how it was your dream to kill niggers, you frequently posted on a racist message board and you had bizarre loads, etc…).

You have no idea how bad things truly are, if you think common sense applies in a court of law, you're in for a really nasty surprise.

And your system is actually worse than ours with the elected prosecutors and judges that don't actually give a fuck about the cases and essentially only care about how the cases look outside the courtroom and how they will profit from it.

The only thing that gives the US legal system some modicum of justice is the fact that you have jurors for everything that keeps the insanity at bay (we used to have that too… don't expect it to last).

So yeah if you planned for non-lethal then use of lethal force, it's a conscious choice not fit of a self-defence situation (where by definition you're only reacting on a barely conscious level) demonstrating a will to do lethal arm. You could have loaded all your rounds as non-lethal, you chose not to.

100% big nasty boar slugs. No loophole.

Able to own isn't a problem, it's able to find one that is.

I guess you can probably order one and they would import it (with a x2 pricetag or more) but it's extremely rare.

I've shot one (an early Colt Delta Match no less) that a mate of mine has, but in Switzerland.

>>565052

If you're actively expecting to be attacked, you should take steps to avoid being fucking attacked instead of changing what ammunition you carry.

>>565109

>>565142

Damn. Even in Texas we have these assholes who want to deal away with our castle doctrine…

We could just kill em all but those are most of our city dwellers too. Someone needs to imitate Austin 2.0

>Elected judges dgaf

>Non elected judges are pozzed POS

I guess we have to go to fully juries for everyone now?

But then the surface and deep state wouldn't function

>>562972

The short answer is all of them because gun will always be better than no gun regardless of ammunition.

I personally would not go smaller than .32 auto though

>>565142

I meant "where you expect a possible confrontation to happen".

>>563045

>>563029

>>562995

Apologizes, I meant to post "bad as a SD round", although I never looked to far into that, since I originally didn't have any intention of using as such. I'm assuming that over-penetration like >>562996 brought up is just a meme?

Whichever one you're accurate with.

Trying to specify a single best caliber for personal carry is retarded. Generally, what you should do is pick a handgun chambered for the biggest, most destructive round that such that:

>you can comfortably wear the gun all day

>you can easily conceal the gun without printing

>you can quickly draw and shoot the thing without limp-wristing

>you can deal with the muzzle flip well enough to quickly and accurately make follow-up shots

>you can do all this with a decent (optimally 15 rounds or more) mag capacity

The last two especially are important. Stoppan powah matters somewhat, as more energy to target roughly translates to target getting killed dead faster. But it doesn't matter as much as putting your bullet holes through vital areas. I can't find that paramedic report where the guy says that all gunshot wounds look pretty much the same to them, regardless of caliber, if someone has it I'd appreciate it being posted. And the factors that lend themselves the best to putting shots into vital areas are high mag capacity and small recoil impulse, i.e. smaller calibers. If you're a big enough guy to shoot 10mm easily without worrying to much about the muzzle flip, and you're wearing heavy enough clothing that you can conceal a full-frame without worry, then do that. If you're manlet don't pretend you're something you're not and carry around some bigass handcannon that you can barely control. For 90% of people this will probably end up being a choice between carrying a steel-framed, double stack 9mm, or a steel-framed, double stack 10mm.

Something that's affordable to shoot until your trigger finger falls off, high magazine cap,able to purchase good hollow points such as Winchester Ranger SXT .

>>562972

9mm ballistic tip hollow-points are good

>>562972

everyone think small conceal and even fbi leo afraid of smallest recoil…..at some point it makes more sense for use sharpened screwdriver for penetration is about same size as .380 u want a big hole or a small hole u want penetration through ribs or stuck in one?

>>564514

oh u can kill with .380 but how long do you have…guy locally, i hears, shot multiple rounds center mass close range with .380….he died (after bleeding for 30 min)

>>565185

>I guess we have to go to fully juries for everyone now?

Well yeah.

Non-elected well trained professional corp tasked with inquisition (litt. seeking the truth and not a conviction), justice professionals divided in three branches, investigation (to which law enforcement is subordinated), prosecution (to which investigation go once they determined what they found is relevant of prosecution) and judging (which is largely hermetic from the two others) tasked with leading the audiences, all with little to gain but professional pride in a job well done.

To that you add a jury of peers deciding whether or not if a person is guilty (but the sentencing is left to the judge who, as a professional knows much better the array of sentences and measures typically taken, to which the jury could subsequently disagree with if they strongly feel someone should do jail time or not by simply expressing if it's too lenient or too harsh, which would be rare but does happen. Sometime a jury give non-guilty sentences when they deem that the person is guilty but doesn't deserve that many years of jail that go with it and vice-versa) is probably the most foolproof system against unjust condemnations.

>That would deep state wouldn't function

That right there is pretty much the textbook Napoleonic penal system (except the disagreeing jury with the judges).

It wouldn't prevent anything politic wise because it's not it's job, it would just make it harder to have politically motivated trials since investigation/prosecution/sentencing are separated and have less to gain (they would still have some, career advancement, networking, nepotism. Just not your actual mean of income and future as a national political figure…).

To counter that you need strong ideology and strong virtues which is also easier to put in a professional corps which has a special school to go with it and you can make a code of conduct with very hard professional rules that will immediately result in termination to stave off the worse of it.

>>565536

>jury of peers

Is that really a good idea? I mean, the only place I can see it working flawlessly is in small communities with strong morals, and those could already police themselves anyway.

> the jury could subsequently disagree with if they strongly feel someone should do jail time or not by simply expressing if it's too lenient or too harsh

I think a possible solution is to give a relatively wide array of possible sentences, and let the people of a smaller area decide if a crime should be dealt more or less harsly, but not on an individual scale. E.g. a criminal could be sentenced from 5 to 25 years if prison, but somewhere people would find 5 years to little, and vote to bring up the minimum to 15 years. It wouldn't really impact how the system works, but the population would still feel satisfied with their ability to influence how much punishment is meted out.

>>565536

>all with little to gain but professional pride in a job well done

So you're expecting a bunch of people to work their asses off, behave virtuously in the best interests of the individual and society, all for no social distinction and little economic gain, and then you expect these positions not to be flooded with psychopaths that will leverage their position to advance their own aims.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

1. Lowest calibers you can count on; great for tiny guns for deep concealment; FMJ may perform better than premium "defense" ammo or JHPs:

.380 auto

.38 spl

and lighter loadings of 9mm

2. Mid-range; have seen extensive police use; firearms are suitable for concealed carry; lots of good, reliable defensive JHP loads available in this range due to years of development; reliable HP expansion, "good enough" penetration; moderate recoil:

.38 spl +P

9mm, 9mm +P

.40 S&W

low-to-mid-power .45 auto loads

fast, lightweight .357 magnum loads

3. When you REALLY need someone dead; better for more experienced shooters due to increased recoil; great penetration and reliable expansion from many defensive loads:

.357 SIG

higher-end .45 auto, including +P

.45 Colt

lighter 10mm loads

mid-weight, fast .357 magnum loads

4. At the upper end, you have more military/hunting-suitable calibers; you won't see many loads labeled for "defense" in this category; extreme penetration, even with lead projectiles, soft points or jacketed hollowpoints:

full-power, heavy .357 magnum

10mm (excluding intentionally light loads)

most big bore revolver calibers (.41 mag, .44 mag, .45 Colt "+P" modern loads, etc.)

>>565582

Generally agree with your tiers, but with a few caveats:

FMJ only for smaller calibers such as .32acp, light .380 and perhaps 9x18mm. Defensive loads in those calibers tend to be very shallow penetrators in ballistics gel tests.

In .38 special and 9x19mm +P ammo isn't generally required. Provided it meets the minimum 12" penetration in ballistics gel it's decent ammo regardless of pressure rating. Additionally, lower ( read: non +P ) pressure ammo has generally less recoil than higher pressure ammo leading to faster follow up shots.

Whichever caliber a handgun is in a greater factor is reliability; a .500 vunderpoodleshutzer with spoldeytip ammo isn't the best choice if the hipoink brand glawk it's shooting from has more jam than smuckers.

>>565835

The tiers aren't perfect; I tried to consider all factors and present them as if I were talking to a layman - Tier 1, for example, counts on the caliber being carried in a subcompact/pocket gun, so recoil and ballistics are considered with that in mind.

The problem with .38 special is that it's hard to find a load with "good enough" penetration AND decent expansion; you usually have either one or the other. I realize this is a generalization, but to be safe I wouldn't put standard-pressure .38 spl in the same category as standard-pressure 9mm, particularly considering the type of firearms (concealable, short barrel) in that category.

This is my gospel:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/#38spl

As far as the 9mm +P not being necessary, I would tend to agree with you, but I wouldn't put 9mm +P in the next-higher category either. There are some standard-pressure loads that perform better than +P loads, some +P loads that have less recoil than standard-pressure, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Carbine#Handguns_2

What would happen if you took a straight-walled steel case with the lenght of .30 carbine and the circumference of 9mm Parabellum, and stuffed it full of pistol powder? As for the calibre, I vote for 6.5meme.

>>565582

>lighter 10mm loads

Normal 10mm is 40sw

overall I don't like your ranking and will restate what I said before

You should be carrying either a .40sw, .45, .357 SIG, or 10mm (real 10mm). If you need one, just go with the .357 Sig. If you have absolutely nothing else, and can't shoot guns well, and are poor, then you can carry 9mm. Don't say I didn't warn you.

>.45

>>565229

you shouldn't go smaller than 9mm, and even 9mm is pushing it.

.32 acp and .380 are not only endangering your ilfe, they're endanering everyone else because the round is so fucking weak that you'll have to pray and spray just to hurt someone. Do not fucking use these shitty rounds.

9mm ARX or a frangible.

The ARX only dumps its energy in liquid bodies, using the Venturi effect. It has the necessary penetration to get through the dry wall in your house and touch the bad guy on the other side who thought concealment was cover.

>>564504

>hurr durr everyone uses it so it must be great the same military that I shit on for doing the f35 uses it so it must be great

>lose half your capacity with the .40

you lose one fucking round with the .40, you stupid mother fucking idiot.

the 9mm is obsolete. It was designed for a time when the average man was malnourished as shit and weighed about 100 pounds, now we are in a world of rampaging 200 pound niggers and hamcunts.

You want an updated 9mm? Go .357 Sig, and put that little piece of shit you're holding in your hand in the garbage can.

>>568349

>sig

Sorry, man. I don't buy IMI.

>>568349

>the 9mm is obsolete. It was designed for a time when the average man was malnourished as shit and weighed about 100 pounds, now we are in a world of rampaging 200 pound niggers and hamcunts.

The issue isn't the size of the round, since they each carry enough energy to stop a man. The issue is the energy being transferred into the target on impact.

The ARX round now it sounds like I'm marketing for them, but whatever uses the properties of a liquid in the, mostly water, human body to transfer the bullet energy into the target.

>>568367

>They act like propellers in fluid, transferring their energy through rotation?

Yes. They are one time loading, so only a disadvantage if you like to pick up and reload your brass.

>The end result of the company’s R&D is the ARX bullet, a patent-pending design that takes full advantage of the flexibility provided by injection molding. PolyCase ballistics engineers—along with third-party aerospace and fluid engineers—spent months experimenting with aero and fluid dynamics using Finite Element Modeling (FEM), which led to the design of uniquely shaped flutes, or channels, the company calls Power Blades. The flutes act to displace the target material using the bullet’s forward and rotational momentum, or “lateral force dispersion.”

>Imagine an outboard boat motor running at full speed with the propeller blade suspended in the air above the surface of a lake. The blade’s fast rotation might generate a bit of a breeze but not much else will happen. Now imagine plunging that spinning blade into the lake. It would cause quite a splash as the kinetic energy is dispersed into the water, a much denser medium than air.

>The ARX bullet functions in a similar fashion. As the bullet spins through the atmosphere, the flutes do little to disrupt the air it passes through. But as the bullet comes into contact with a fluid medium, such as 10 percent ballistic gelatin, the fluid within the target is suddenly and forcefully churned by its flutes. The fluids are thrust out and away from the bullet at velocities that are anywhere from one-and-a-half to two times faster than the velocity the bullet is traveling.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/10/23/tested-the-polycase-arx-bullet/

>>568367

* _some_ versions have one time loading cases.

>>568375

>>568378

Eh, videos show it performs pretty much on par with existing defense ammo. The lowered recoil is interesting though.

>>568338

that's pretty close to the 357, isn't it? There's a "wildcat" that's basically 357 rimless, for autoloaders. Uses 556 brass IIRC.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/223-Un-Tapered-W-O-Caliber-Designation/

There's your starting point for loading. Harbor Freight has a 2" chop-saw good for shortening the brass to needed lengths.

>>568468

That does sound like the same thing, the main problem is that I can't find the length of that cartridge. Of course, being a wildcat there might not even be a standard lengths.

>>568468

.30 carbine has a much longer case than any straight walled .357 cartridge (including wildcats) I've ever seen.

Something else that crossed my mind: 5.56 NATO is so close to Borchardt-derivatives in size that in the Middle East they manufacture 7.62 Tokarev from the cases. Now, could a STANAG magazine feed that or 9mm Parabellum without any modifications?

Besides Glawks and Sig Sauers' own offerings, any good non-custom pistols chambered in .357 SIG?

>>568753

old-school XD's

besides that, none, unfortunately. It is objectively the best handgun round.

>>568767

Ah well. I don't personally like Glocks (they're not bad guns, just look fugly and can't stand the grip), and Sigs seem to have a pretty high bore-axis, which is going to cause issues with a high recoil round. Maybe I'll just save up and have CZ Custom put together my ultimate memegun for me.

The two main things that matter with handgun calibers are shot placement and penetration. There's no reliable way to quickly take down a threat with a handgun. You either have to hit them in the central nervous system or make them bleed out. The first is hard to pull off and the second takes time. You can try aiming for the head/spine or the pelvis to immobilize them but you should be aiming in the center of mass because pulling off trick shots and shooting to wound will make you look reckless in court. If you have the time to carefully aim, it's hard to argue that your life is in danger and you can't retreat. There's also the threat of shooting innocent bystanders. Don't shoot to kill or wound, shoot to stop the threat. A long gun may be capable of reliably stopping a threat but you probably won't have that with you outside of the home. If you're interested in home defense rather than carrying, get a long gun.

My preferred caliber is the 9mm. It has a manageable recoil(shot placement) and is powerful enough to reach the vital parts of the body(penetration). Testing has been done with the 9mm and it has been shown that it can reach vital organs even in hard scenarios. I'd recommend looking up ballistics tests to see for yourself. Handgun calibers have come a long way and all of the handgun calibers are better than what they used to be. Make sure to have a hollow point bullet. It's more likely to hit something important, helps to prevent overpenetration, and makes it obvious the direction where the bullet came from. 9mm fits the niche of being strong enough to have sufficient penetration but without compromising shot placement and capacity.

As for the other calibers such as the 357 SIG, 40 SW, and 45 ACP, they each have problems. For starters, they are all more expensive than the 9mm. You need to be proficient in your gun and that means going to the range regularly to train. The price of the caliber affects how much you can train. Another problem is availability. 9mm is the most common round. It's the most likely to be stocked. It's going to be a common round in a disaster scenario. Another problem is recoil. It's harder to make follow up shots with these calibers. More pressure in the chamber can adversely affect the longevity of the gun. There's also more noise and a bigger muzzle flash in shorter barreled guns. Guns with bigger calibers often have to be wider which affects concealability. It's uncommon to see extra pressured ammo outside of 9mm or 38 Special.

I may consider a 380 ACP if I decide to go with a smaller gun. I wouldn't go lower than that. If you have either a 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 380 ACP, 9mm, 357 SIG, 40 SW, or a 45 ACP, there's no pressing reason to switch to another caliber. None of these calibers make you poorly armed. Smaller ones may penetrate insufficiently and bigger ones may be impractical to carry but all of the rounds mentioned are usable. Defensive training is far more important.

>>568770

Sig bore axis is high, but once you start shooting, you don't notice it. I own a g17, a p229 and p320.

Best gun for the .357 Sig is the p229.

>>568792

You aren't the least bit curious how an SP-01 in .357 SIG would shoot?

>>568788

>can't drop anyone with a handgun

.40 has a wide reputation in law enforcement for one shot stops. 9mm is the problem. .357 Sig, .40, and 10mm all have one hit stopping power.

All bc 9mm shills couldn't admit that their round was simply too weak.

>>568794

What if you are using 9mm p+ Loads?

>>568770

I own a Sig. The high bore axis isn't that bad. When I first saw it in pictures, I thought it was weird, but didn't notice it when I held and fired it. The question is whether you like the short but heavy trigger pull.

>>568794

Put in some more effort. I get that handgun caliber discussions are a troll's paradise but that's some extremely low effort bait.

I'd say whatever caliber is available in the moment.

(1st rule of gun fighting: Have a gun.)

And

(A 22lr is better than nothing at all)

On the other hand if you have the ability to choose what caliber, I'd go with something 9mm or bigger.

Assuming of course that it's not so ridiculous powerful that you can't hit targets easily.

(A hit with a 22r, is better than a miss with a 44Mag)

>>568753

steyr's m-series had a .357 sig option for a while, they might have discontinued it though. I still see it on a bunch of retailer sites. Steyr M357 or L357 for reference.

10mm is best mm

calibre wars are pretty stupid. 95% of self defence situations 9mm is prefectly addequate, and it's the best for most people since it's cheap, available and easy to shoot.

If you've got some expierience with guns and plenty of cash, that's when you can branch out to .357, .40 and .45, 5.7x28, 10mm et cetera

My choice would 5.7x28 since its armour priercing capabilities, low weight and high capacity make it the best for a SHTF scenario. As long as you've stocked up the ammo before hand the ammo is light-weight and small so you can carry a heap of it just in a backpack.

>>565367

What's the height and weight cutoff for a hand cannon?

>t. 5'11, 175

>>569964

I'd like to point out that in fallout-3, the hunting rifle, one of the best early to early-mid game ranged weapons, was a plumbing pipe and some duct tape, using a rubber-banded gate latch to effect a bolt-action,

and it was chambered in .32ACP

>>569742

And of imperial units? 50AE for ccw, anyone?

>>564497

.22lr works better than fists. Even if it doesn't stop him you still have a piece of metal you can use to bash in his skull instead of your bare hands.

Ideally you would use a 9mm or a .45 or a 10mm but if Joey Crackhead is bearing down on you with the intent of proactive panhandling, he's not going to stop if you politely ask to take a rain check until you've saved up enough to trade in your .22 revolver for a 9mm Bodyguard.

>>570373

It's definitely a cool gun. Like you said it's accurate and has high capacity, and the way the magazine loads like an AR is pretty cool too. Necked-down case also means better reliability and practically no feed-related failures.

Problem is, it's expensive as all hell, 5.7x28 has only so-so performance without the AP rounds that civilians can't get, and even then it's not much use for defense, because the average feral nog isn't wearing body armor. The gun has its niche it's one 99% of consumers don't fit into.

>>570373

I'm sure there's other double stack .22 pistols available for less than half of what one of those goes for

>>570373

the gun is really fun to shoot but honestly 5.7 is just a lame round when it comes to stopping power. and you NEED stopping power.

>poorfag

>other circumstances that limit what firearms I can buy/own NYS saying I involuntarily sought mental health treatment 3 years ago

>looking at antique firearms bc they're the only thing I can own

>end up getting an old top break 32sw revolver

>cost ~200 dollars

>tfw not sure if it's adequate for defense

>tfw it shoots well but probably has no power behind it

a-at least it's better than nothing, right?

>>570580

it beats a rock. I suggest not living in New York though (from a fellow NYfag)

>>570583

yeah I moved a couple years ago, the NICS failure is federal level tho