5663ce No.538135
Why did cops use revolvers until the early 90s/late 80s? Pistols are objectively superior
>hold more ammo
>reload faster and with less effort
>autoloading mechanism absorbs felt recoil
>simpler design
the military obviously knew this as they switched to the 1911 and everyone else was adopting pistols over revolvers besides the bongs.
e3c7e1 No.538136
Revolvers are cheaper, simpler to use and maintain, and they're fucking cops not soldiers.
afe8a0 No.538137
>>538135
>Why did cops use revolvers until the early 90s/late 80s? Pistols are objectively superior
Isnt a revolver a type of pistol?
Im a britfag. Ive only ever shot a small bore shotgun. So I will admit im no expert on firearms.
7008a3 No.538138
>>538137
There aren't any hard and fast rules, but pistols and revolvers are both subsets of handguns. Wikipedia says pistols are identifiable by having the chamber being integrated with the barrel.
d33b4c No.538139
While they may accept surplus, the police aren't in an arms race with the military. All they need to do is be on equivalent footing with your average criminal. Since it chews through the budget to replace equipment, you don't really want to invest in a more expensive, delicate and complex firearm unless it's absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, police departments only tend to realize it's necessary after their officers get massacred by criminals who are better shots (not a difficult feat) and have superior equipment. Since revolvers were quite a bit more common among civilians than semi-automatics in the early-to-mid 20th C., there was no pressing need to upgrade.
5663ce No.538142
>>538137
pistol is a short way of saying semi-automatic pistol
afe8a0 No.538143
>>538138
>>538142
I see.
So when i use the word pistol I really mean to say handgun.
d85f1e No.538146
1: The advantage of autoloader was not too great till the wonder nines. A 1911 is 7+1 with period magazines. 8 instead of 6 isn't worth a switch. Only a Browning Hi-Power offers a substantial advantage till then.
2: Related to 1, good 9mm wasn't common in the US, so it was 45 ACP (back to 1)
3: Cops didn't need to shoot much between the two prohibitions
5663ce No.538148
>>538143
idk
i just say pistol/handgun interchangeably
one has a revolver action
the other a semi-automatic action
5663ce No.538149
>>538146
>Cops didn't need to shoot much between the two prohibitions
the funny thing is crime was the worst it ever was between the arly 60s and late 80s the time when cops were using revolvers.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv11.pdf
5d3e14 No.538156
>>538139
a sidearm for a cop is 300-400 bux, 1/3rd of the cost of a taser.
88c89f No.538178
Because the cops weren't wannabe operators until Clinton
9b6fb9 No.538191
>not arming police with the authority to hug
Criminals just need love besides the niggers and spics who need gas
def588 No.538195
>>538135
Before the 90's a six shooter on the hip and a shotgun/bolt action rifle in the cruiser was more than enough firepower for the vast majority of what police in this country faced, outside of shitholes like NYC, Chicago, and LA. It still is in a lot of the country, but with massively increased budgets meaning even a town with a literal 3-man police department can get funding for a SWAT team wonder who will get that reference? everyone has to run and gun like they're billy badass, doesn't matter if that means the department has to match funds and oops there's no longer a training budget, here have a glawk .40 and an AR.
>>538137
The majority of amurricans are too braindead to understand that the term pistol predates revolving cylinder and semi-automatic handguns significantly. This is even codified into US law, with the instructions for the dealer part of the 4473 form listing 'revolvers' and 'pistols' as separate types of handguns.
6c625b No.538233
>>538143
There may or may not be a technical difference, but most people are going to call a revolver a pistol because it's shorter, so I wouldn't apply too much specific meaning to the word.
132971 No.538236
73bf91 No.538251
>>538233
>most people are going to call a revolver a pistol because it's shorter
But this revolver is longer - does that mean it's not a pistol? :^)
4dc3ea No.538259
>>538135
Revolvers are 100% reliable, they cannot malfunction unlike semi-automatic pistols.
>>538136
>they're fucking cops not soldiers
This about sums it up. Stopping power and reliability are more important when you're defending yourself at a moment's notice from a single unarmored threat. High capacity and quick, convenient reloads are more important in a sustained combat situation with multiple armored threats.
112a1f No.538265
>>538259
>Revolvers are 100% reliable, they cannot malfunction unlike semi-automatic pistols.
Nice fudd-lore, buddy. They are machines and like all other machines are perfectly capable of failure.
0f4000 No.538269
>>538265
the thingy spins and the hammer strikes the thingy and it goes bang, sure it's technically possible for it to fail, but it's less likely than a magazine having to feed where the bullet can just get stuck if it doesn't get the angle right
def588 No.538270
>>538269
And so begins the shitflinging between people who aren't retards and those who have never shot enough to deal with parts wear on any gun but can read on the internet about 'muh reliability'.
8700ab No.538277
I'd like to say propaganda and the fact that good guys tended to use revolvers in movies. The reality is that police departments aren't the brightest bulbs, and the college requirements have only dumbed them down because everyone has book/ corruption smarts instead of street smarts now.
The short and sweet "official" answer I can find is that letting women and niggers onto the police force read to a severe drop in.shooting standards. Pretty much most policemen didn't have to fire a single round their entire career unless they were SWAT and if they did, it was typically one criminal in their entire career. Revolvers tended to be more powerful and more reliable long-term without major maintenance, and policemen used to be white males who shot shit on the weekends for fun so they knew how to handle firearms/the difference between a 6 shot revolver and 8/9shot semi auto was negligible. With the introduction of women/niggers into the police force, they found that they couldn't properly handle a revolver's kick and weren't training in off-hours, so they needed a lighter ammunition with larger magazines, hence the swap to semi autos.
02936b No.538281
>>538149
>the funny thing is crime was the worst it ever was between the arly 60s and late 80s the time when cops were using revolvers.
That's why they all have fucking AR-15s in their trunks now. It takes time to rearm the police not to mention the time it took to secure funding to rearm them.
02936b No.538282
>>538251
>But this revolver is longer - does that mean it's not a pistol? :^)
only if you are the ATF.
0514ae No.538289
>>538281
It would be easier if they remotely bothered to be economically intellectual. Get the officers hipoints for handguns. Cheap, reliable, and effective. <$150 in most places, far better than fuckign $500+ glocks.
9dd4f9 No.538294
>>538270
or just people who have shot enough to know that with nonjunk pistols, a mediocre revolver rounds to 100% reliability, and a mediocre semi-auto didn't come remotely close until you could get better magazines 15-20 years ago
40726f No.538298
Hard to add anything to the age old argument. You can get as snobbish as you want with firearms, but simplicity always rules.
A revolver will fire without complaint, doesn’t need cocking, and will usually drop an assailant. For most people it’s enough.
9b6fb9 No.538301
>>538298
Also, the revolver does not need ammunition to fire, and beyond that, the force of the hammer dropping into an empty chamber is enough to kill from a distance. The spinning chamber can be used to shred an enemy's face
e564ac No.538305
>>538281
>It takes time to rearm the police not to mention the time it took to secure funding to rearm them.
You mean
>big daddy guv please give us new guns and more milsurp humvees please
>kicking in doors with no knock warrants is so scary its worse than when I was in iraq
>one time a suspect took an extra half second to comply after I shot his dog, cat and rabbit and I almost magdumped on him, fucking civillians am I right
19164c No.538306
>>538305
>making fun of the fact that police are less willing to die than the military
I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here, other than whining about cops like everyone else does.
def588 No.538314
>>538294
If you had shot as much as you're implying you'd realize that parts wear and that revolvers aren't a magical totem immune from the forces of time and physics. For the majority of people who don't really shoot, a revolver won't wear out in their lifetime, but on that same token neither will a glock or a 1911.
>>538298
>but simplicity always rules
Semi-auto's can be mechanically simpler than a revolver design so I don't see your argument.
>doesn’t need cocking
You do realize not all revolvers are DA or DAO?
>and will usually drop an assailant
I'm starting to think you believe every revolver on the planet is a 4" model 19. Not that it would be a bad CCW for 80% of the country mind you.
ae3e8d No.538321
>why revolvers?
drop safe, safe to carry, double action, more powerful ammo options (before hollowpoints).
wonder 9s had teething problems as carry pieces for a long time, revolvers were legitimately better. a police carry piece has different concerns than a war pistol.
ba8f87 No.538324
ae3e8d No.538327
>>538324
>>538277
can you idiots go look up when DAO double stacks became viable
de14bc No.538328
>>538294
It's more to do with Revolvers are sort of the "handgun shotgun" when it comes to ammunition rather than just being "more reliable." That is, they're built with low tolerances to allow for a lot more varied loudout/crud in their ammunition as compared to traditional semi auto. The whole point as I stated with >>538277 a bit is that pre-equality shit, cops prided themselves on shooting standards and were on a tight budget. Revolver ammunition could be handloaded by the police force dirt cheap on-base with relatively cheap equipment because of these lower tolerances with revolvers. They were using shoddy ammunition for training, but they were training with 500-1,000 rounds per cop per year to get gud with their revolvers in most cities. If they had to buy the ammunition instead of making it themselves, it would have been ridiculously expensive. Combined with the fact that revolver maintenance IS easier than semi auto maintenance revolvers are more complex, but the parts exposed to the elements of firearms training are far less/they can take far more of a beating in between maintenance sessions, it becomes clear why a budget-tight police force would use a weapon with fewer shots since it was assumed each cop was well trained to handle their firearm and might only need to use it on average once in their whole career if they didn't live in niggersville and didn't work with SWAT, doubly so before the "war on drugs." When they let in women and minorities who could shoot a revolver 6 times and miss 6 times, and they had to meet minority quotas that said women/minorities couldn't meet (women because they're generally a crap shot unless they train/it was "unladylike" outside of rural areas, minorities because ammo is expensive and most of them were poor or rising middle class before equality shut them down), it became clear they needed to lax up the shooting requirements to get into the police force, which made revolvers a shitty handgun since they were gonna just miss since they weren't gonna train to use it in their off time. To solve this problem, and given they were getting larger budgets anyways, the switch to semi auto was a given. Even fuccbois can use a 9mm with an extra magazine so they can miss half their shots and still drop the target. Since they no longer required officers to shoot more than 50-100 rounds of ammunition per year, it became clear that they didn't need low tolerances and cheap equipment to produce shit tons of ammunition, hence semi autos became affordable.
ba8f87 No.538333
>>538327
Either you are a cop yourself or never met old cops. Old cops are beyond retarded
9dd4f9 No.538339
>>538314
> parts wear and that revolvers aren't a magical totem immune from the forces of time and physics.
oh shit nigger you're right, I meant rounds to zero not 100, fuck me, semiautos are exempt of physics and your statement doesn't apply to them despite more parts and points of failure because
2be9ce No.538344
Some of you guys might want to read about the Newhall shooting in the 70's which was before FBI Miami. Mas Ayoob wrote a bit about it. Jeff Cooper might have been one of the early advocates of the semi-auto but I thiiiink he didn't start teaching at Gunsite until also the 70's.
My best guess out of my ass when it comes to law enforcement sticking to revolvers for so long is partially due to departmental culture when it came to emphasis on marksmanship i.e. PPC-type matches and guys like Jack Weaver and Bill Jordan. Also fussing over revolver calibers i.e. Elmer Keith and the .38 +P FBI load.
2be9ce No.538345
>>538344
also, fun fact: David Spade donated $100,000 to Phoenix PD to buy rifles.
70a745 No.538348
9dd4f9 No.538352
>>538344
cops stuck with revolvers because they are npcs going with whatever fashion. there is money and gov maymays behind armor and glawks and tacticool shit, so every small town needs an MRAP now
cops used to have revolvers because they didn't get funbux, they never cleaned them and never shot them. they would sell or give away their alloted box of ammo, or whatever the standards were then. Not much has changed now. I used to work in a place that was related to law enforcement. We had pallets of targets, and maybe 5% of them ever took/requested any, and one guy in the entire state took more than the rest combined.
2be9ce No.538353
>>538348
It was back in 2008 when they were soliciting donations. The patrol rifle program was implemented in 1999. I would guess all but the poorest or progressive departments phased out patrol shotguns at the height of DHS grants sometime after 2010.
If you're more interested in the topic there's a thread on PF's LEO section.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?26642-Phasing-out-shotguns
The most recent example of field use off the top of my head is the footage taken during the bus shootout in Dundalk, Maryland.
I had an M4 in the trunk when I was an MP but based on my experiences I'd rather have had a shotgun if we were allowed a choice (and I actually had qualified on it).
Similar to the topic of semi-autos and revolvers, shotguns definitely require more officer training than an AR.
9dd4f9 No.538354
>>538353
>shotguns definitely require more officer training than an AR.
sad
2be9ce No.538362
>>538354
I agree. It seems departments can always spend money on more equipment but god forbid they spend a fraction of that on instruction or qualifying more often.
def588 No.538374
>>538339
>more parts
You know how I know you have never even seen a revolver detail stripped, let alone taken one down yourself?
9dd4f9 No.538376
>>538374
start counting any time
5663ce No.538688
>>538374
>more parts
>besides frame and cylinder, the only moving parts are hammer, sear, trigger, ratchet and cylinder stop. it's not complicated.
f79914 No.538689
>>538324
Underrated post. Especially true of Britbong cops back when Britain was a country and not an Islamic Caliphate.
9573b3 No.538691
A) Price. Early automatics were ridiculously expensive compared to revolvers.
B) For cops it's important to know, and be able to easily visually check, that when they pull the trigger the gun will 100% fire. That's easier to do on a revolver.
C) A revolver requires less training in its use, and is even easier to shoot accurately.
D) There were a wider variety of cartridges for revolvers than for automatics back then.
5f27e5 No.538692
>>538259
>Revolvers are 100% reliable, they cannot malfunction unlike semi-automatic pistols.
I would like to introduce you to a friend of mine.
9573b3 No.538693
>>538692
It has a rifled barrel, that makes it a rifle not a revolver you idiot.
5f27e5 No.538694
>>538693
So you are an idiot. Got it. Here if your (you)
d5eb03 No.538747
>>538692
>posts a special snowflake revolver with an absurdly autistic and complex trigger system
I mean, he's wrong, but you could not be a fucking retard when pointing it out. 5 seconds on jewtube, and look - I found a video of a revolver jamming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqnde572AoI
9573b3 No.538755
>>538694
>>538747
I was joking. It was blindingly obvious sarcasm.
d929d1 No.539692
>This thread
Comical. What has /k/ come to.
THE MIAMI DADE SHOOTING
Search it up. Police used revolvers because there was no public-supported need for anything more potent until Miami Dade.
d929d1 No.539696
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>539692
Good video on it here
d929d1 No.539779
>>539698
That CIA nigger isn't glowing the dark. Am I being rused?
9dd4f9 No.539818
>>539779
ATFniggers are so black they're purple. He lit up soon afterwards
5663ce No.540006
>>539692
what has /k/ come to indeed.
that had more to do with preparation and tactics not just muh revolvers. the cops had shotguns and semi autos just as much as revolvers but they were pinned down by a mini-14 rifle
e33dfe No.540052
>>539692
The one where the FBI agents couldn't hit the broad side of a very large barn but blamed the lack of killy-killy on the oh-so-weak revolver ammo they were using?
d929d1 No.540131
>>540006
> the cops had shotguns and semi autos just as much as revolvers
6 revolvers. 2 9mm, one of which had his gun shot & drew his revolver- then was killed early in the fight. 1 shotgun.
>>540052
> couldn't hit the broad side of a very large barn
150 shots were exchanged in total, a good portion of which came from the mini-14 guy. The suspects, not including the final 3 shots, were hit a total of 15 times. Less than 100 shots came from the officers; that's 15% accuracy, slightly above or about the same as the military's projections for accuracy under fire.
> blamed the lack of killy-killy on the oh-so-weak revolver ammo
The largest take-away was that revolvers had too low of a capacity, but yeah. Which sparked the development of 10mm FBI & subsequently the .40 S&W.
The fact that either of you think you know enough to argue this period proves just how retarded you are. It takes less than five seconds of googling to confirm everything I have said and that Miami Dade was what caused the change. Common knowledge shit. Go back to cuckchan.
ae3e8d No.540133
>>540131
and even further back, none of these faggots know the historical significance of cops moving to 357s from 38s. like the 38 super automatic round, 357 is a good car-stopper. it penetrates windshields and doors well, making it preferable for police work. in a time when a single-stack pistol is just +1 round advantage, having assblasting power is significant, and this is coming back around again for civilians in faggot high-cap ban states.
AND cops were actually very quick to jump over to wonder9s, when they actually existed, in the late 80s. so this shit is nigignorant all around.
5663ce No.540205
>>540131
>looking for known dangerous bank robbers
>cruising around looking for them with no armor, no weapons besides your issued handguns or car shotty
>surprised when a guy with a .223 mini 14 is wasting cops who "were shocked" to find they entered a gunfight
>no guys revolvers were to blame. if they went to glock 20s in 10mm Little Boy they would have won
this is you. see how retarded you sound?
d929d1 No.540213
>>540205
Guess the random retard typing in all lower-case knows more about FBI doctrinal procedures than the FBI bureau. There's a neat thing called "Google" where you can disprove your own """"'points""""" with, once again, five seconds and a wikipedia skim.
5663ce No.540245
>>540213
cool argument from authority. i'll take that as you have no argument now.
d929d1 No.540252
>>540245
>Joke's on them I was only pretending to be retarded
528a19 No.540261
>>538289
>far better than a $500 glock
Nigga that's probably the most retarded statement I've seen in here.
528a19 No.540263
>>538691
>C) uses less training
That's absolute bullshit. Semiautos are far easier to use and have much better triggers
80a15a No.541308
>>538328
>That is, they're built with low tolerances
Lmao shut the fuck up
7e1629 No.541314
>>540263
>glock 500lb quad locking safety trigger
>better than a revolvers
But thats wrong, retard. Because of limitations of cartridge stacking, autos force the grip into an unnatural shape for handling, and odd angle compared to bore axis which forces user to take an unnatural stance. Autos also have sharper and more unnatural recoil due to slide and light construction, and are a lot garder to handle because their various parts (hammer, trigger etc) are neither ergonomic nor sensitive. Also compared to revolvers, autos are harder to manufacture, learn to maintain, clean, reload and so on.
539726 No.541359
>>538149
It's almost as if unbridled sexual deviancy, hard drugs, and leftist ideals tend to degrade societies….