/k/ - Weapons

>>527457

Chairforce pilots already do that.

>>527460

Wow my office paper pushing job must be so stressful

>>527457

>war ends

>troops come home

>no more meth because "lol the wars over u dont need it"

>withdrawal sets in

Congratulations.

>>527464

And you better hope your supply chain doesn't get cut in the field.

>>527464

No meth in oz, kek

>>527457

Not only was amphetamine use ubiquitous during the Vietnam War, but the US military knowingly pushed opioids on soldiers. Troops infiltrating Laos for a four-day mission each received a “medical kit” containing 12 tablets of Darvon (an opiate), 24 tablets of codeine (an opiate) and six tablets of dextroamphetamine. Furthermore, members of the special forces were administered regular steroid injections prior to long and demanding expeditions.

Research shows that while 3.2 percent of soldiers arriving in Vietnam categorized themselves as heavy amphetamine users, after one year of deployment the rate increased 62.5% — although the researchers expect that the real figure was much higher since the methodology required self-reporting by troops, the Atlantic reported.

https://sputniknews.com/us/201604091037731785-pentagon-vietnam-amphetamines-drugs-homelessness/

the American military readily supplied its troops in Vietnam with speed. “Pep pills” were usually distributed to men leaving for long-range reconnaissance missions and ambushes. The standard army instruction (20 milligrams of dextroamphetamine for 48 hours of combat readiness) was rarely followed; doses of amphetamine were issued, as one veteran put it, “like candies,” with no attention given to recommended dose or frequency of administration. In 1971, a report by the House Select Committee on Crime revealed that from 1966 to 1969, the armed forces had used 225 million tablets of stimulants, mostly Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine), an amphetamine derivative that is nearly twice as strong as the Benzedrine used in the Second World War. The annual consumption of Dexedrine per person was 21.1 pills in the navy, 17.5 in the air force, and 13.8 in the army.

“We had the best amphetamines available and they were supplied by the U.S. government,” said Elton Manzione, a member of a long-range reconnaissance platoon (or Lurp).

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/04/the-drugs-that-built-a-super-soldier/477183/

Well, it worked so well in Vietnam, I can't imagine you want to stop now.

>>527464

>>527467

You realize ritalin, which is prescribed to over 100 million people, is meth?

>>527468

The fact that meth is everywhere is part of the problem. Turning the armed forces into a bunch of tweakers is going to mean a huge increase in organised crime.

>>527485

I'm not saying that the go-pills will suddenly stop existing once the fighting is over; I'm saying that once those soldiers get discharged, the government is going to stop giving them meth. Then you have a whole bunch of people who are desperate for their next fix, and they are not going to be able to reintegrate into society very well.

The issue could be somewhat manageable if the military showed some restraint with dosages, and if returning servicemen were offered rehab, or even something as simple as writing prescriptions for these drugs so that veterans can keep feeding their habit, but we all know that none of it's never going to happen.

>>527485

>giving meth to schoolkids

Murrica

>>527485

Also, ritalin is methylphenidate, not methamphetamine.

>>527483

>Well, it worked so well in Vietnam, I can't imagine you want to stop now.

Same reason we don't use dumb cluster munitions, Napalm, Flame throwers, agent orange or any other fun stuff anymore:

Bad PR.

>>527494

>and they are not going to be able to reintegrate into society very well.

Who gives a fuck? The soldiers would be happy they survived the war at all, and didn't die because they couldn't keep fighting after a week without sleep.

> somewhat manageable if the military showed some restraint with dosages

Not gonna happen. Not because it would be a bad idea, but because it would be too hard to keep track of. Lining up your soldiers in the morning and watching each and every one of them swallow a pill is impossible if they are spread out 300 meters over a couple of foxholes and bunkers, and under sniper/artillery fire, as often happened in WWII. Handing them a bunch of pills more than they will need means that you don't have to worry about resupplying them with meds once the mission inevitably drags on longer than it should have. And if it miraculously doesn't, then the soldiers will probably not need the meds at all and just keep them for later use. It's not like using the pills in emergency situations will instantly turn you into an addict.

>and if returning servicemen were offered rehab

This already happens over here. If you have been on deployment you have the right to a month off and psychological care if you so require I believe you are also questioned about psychological you may have brought home. Addng a single day of observation to check if they inhabit any sort of withdrawl symptoms wouldn't be a problem.

>>527498

And iPhone 10 is different from iPhone 8.

>>527457

I can see amphetamines being useful in the short term but after day 2 of being thwacked-out you'll be more useless than someone who was just normal tired and sleep deprived.

>>527485

>>527550

Fucking leafs. It's literally not the same drug at all. That's like saying caffeine and cocaine are the same drug.

>>527550

Different chemicals are different.

The problem is that certain chemicals have had billions upon billions of dollars and decades of propaganda thrown into demonizing or scapegoating them. Using proper names doesn't evoke the same irrational emotions

>>527592

>Methylphenidate is structually similar to methamphetamine.

No shit, chinknigger, they're both amphetamine class stimulants. The real difference between the two is that ritalin is an atypical dopamine reuptake inhibitor (it blocks the dopamine transporter) and that methamphetamine is a moderately neurotoxic dopamine release agent.

>>527592

those two structures are pretty different from a chemistry standpoint. While his statement was exaggerated i'm assuming the hyperbole was intended to point out the flaw with the leaf's argument that meth and ritallin are the same thing by pointing out that caffeine and cocaine are both stimulants also.

>>527592

They aren't even functional analogues. Amphetamines are dopamine releasing agents while -phenidates are dopamine reuptake inhibitors.

>>527594

Also, just the fact that anyone who has done both meth and ritalin (me) will tell you that the subjective effects aren't anywhere even close to each other. That's why I made I made the cocaine/caffeine comparison.

>>527607

Because there hasn't been a proper (miliraty manyfactured) MRE made in years its all off the shelf stuff.

Why have human troops at all when you could mass-produce robot soldiers?

>>527631

Because you can't yet

>>527544

Did you even read what >>527483 posted, or did you just skip to the bottom, see "Vietnam", think "fucking peaceniks don't know jack shit", and disregard it all? Handing out stimulants like candy is exactly how you end up with heavy amphetamine use going from 3% to 60% in just one year.

>Who gives a fuck? The soldiers would be happy they survived the war at all

wew lad, don't cut yourself on that edge.

>It's not like using the pills in emergency situations will instantly turn you into an addict.

Used sparingly and sensibly, no, it won't. That said, do you really think that no-one's going to dig into their little bag of treats on their down-time? Stimulants generally cause increased activity of dopamine, serotonin, or noradrenaline (norepinephrine) - all of which are "feel-good" neurotransmitters, related to things like alertness, reward saliency, happiness, motivation, etc. If your soldiers are stressed and tired, they'll want more "feel-good". If your soldiers are bored shitless, they'll want more "feel-good". If a little bit of "feel-good" feels good, then more will feel really good.

>If you have been on deployment you have the right to a month off and psychological care

Stimulant abuse can fuck up your brain for life, the point where you are unable to feel pleasure or satisfaction at all, except by taking more stimulants (and even that may not feel good any more, and may just be the least-worst feeling option). A month likely won't be enough for soldiers who've been chowing down on pervitin like it was skittles. When you say psychological care, do you mean actual psychological care, or the kind of "psychological care" where they chuck you into a group therapy session until you kill yourself? Governments have never cared about wounded and disabled servicemen after the war ends. They haven't for centuries; their attitude has always been "why didn't you have the decency to die over there, and stop costing me money?". I don't see that changing any time soon.

>>527631

Because if the robot soldiers are operated by humans, on a 1:1 ratio, then all you've done is make the standard soldier more expensive. If the robot soldiers are given orders by a small group of humans, then they'll just be a tool for the (((elite))) to better secure their control over the common man. If the robot soldiers are autonomous, then the power over life and death has permanently left human hands, and you've signed our species' death warrant. Maybe it'll take a few months, maybe it'll take centuries, or even millennia, but humanity will no longer rule itself.

gg no re

>>527646

Death by Skynet sounds better than our slow rot status quo.

>>527647

Yeah, true, but that's probably only because our slow rot status quo is just the early stages of

>If the robot soldiers are given orders by a small group of humans, then they'll just be a tool for the (((elite))) to better secure their control over the common man.

Humanity could be so much better than this if we were let off the leash, but the fuckers at the top of the heap just want to control everything.

>>527483

Don't a lot of SF dudes use tren today?

>>527631

>400Lb NEET hacks your terminators and makes them go on killing sprees. Several maternity wards are raided by flame thrower robots.

no wonder we beat them, they were all strung out and withdrawing.

anyone who has quit smoking knows what kind of hell that is.

>>527693

Tren is not an effective stimulant. It might burn fat but it does not provide useful energy or mental focus. It just makes you nauseous and shaky and eventually it burns some fat calories.

>give soldiers drugs

>increase the opioid epidemic

Sure is echoey in here.

>>527646

>Did you even read what >>527483 posted […]?

Yes, did.

>do you really think that no-one's going to dig into their little bag of treats on their down-time

This is why you only issue those drugs before operations that you consider to require them, not to every grunt out there. Sure: military personnel will often have to perform those missions, and eventually everyone will have taken them once or twice after some months of war. But there is a reason why you didn't see people going apeshit in WWII once their meds ran out: Discipline. And I don't mean discipline on the soldier's end, but on the side of the superiors.

Give your troops the amount of drugs they require and a little extra, but not more than that. Don't give em drugs while on guard duty, or rear echelon shit. Don't give em drugs when you are sure they won't need them. Going out for an attack: Hand them the amount necessary and a little extra, no more, no less. Got intelligence that the enemy is approaching and you are digging in in a city: give them a week or two of meds and stockpile more in side of the city.

Sending troops on a long range patrol: Give them the meds in an emergency pack that must be ripped open, and have them justify their action once they return in time and nothing has gone wrong (Punishing them isn't even necessary. Questioning about it will will provide enough psychological pressure to use the drugs sparingly.) Give them free time after they have been involved in large battles (if the survival of your nation doesn't depend on their continued involvement in the war.) They could even teach recruits fresh outta boots after coming back from a long battle for a month or two. This way the experiences will be spread and you would get a direct advantage even out of a lost battle.

This way, soldiers will have some time after a mission, or when outside of combat, to come down to a normal level of psychoactive matter in their bloodstream.

>wew lad, don't cut yourself on that edge.

Would you rather: Survive and be a little fucked up in the head, or die in a hellhole like Memel, Danzig, Berlin, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kiev, Krakow, Verdun, or any other battle that dragged on or was absolutely inhuman?

If your answer is death, then just don't take the meds you are supplied. I would rather take some meds and fight for my life for as long as I can, even if I am a quivering mess of a human being afterwards. At least I survived. This is more of an ethical question though: how far would you dehumanize yourself and face the bloodshed to survive?

Considering that cannibalism was widespread during the siege of Leningrad, and during the Chinese famines, and the Wehrmacht acquired many tons of Pervitin during even the first months of the war, you are probably in the minority.

> psychological care

Actual fucking care with proper doctors, psychologists and validations. As a solider during peacetime you have the right to free (mental) healthcare over here. You also have the obligation to keep yourself (mentally)healthy. Your supperiors also have the duty to not expose you to unnecessary (mental)health risks.

You are literally obliged to go to the doc for proper care if you even suspect that something is wrong with you. They can't even boot you for it, since you are doing everything correct. If you comrades notice anything wrong about you, they are obliged to tell their supperiors, who then would take the risk of taking the blame if you do something fucky.

ITT: Pharmaceuti/k/als

>>527494

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine

>Dextroamphetamine = Methamphetamine

Not even close baby.

>>527952

When did I say that the two are the same? Pervitin is literally methamphetamine. Yes, dexamphetamine is what modern-day militaries use (because it's not neurotoxic, unlike meth), but in the context of addiction, withdrawal, overdose, etc., amphetamines are amphetamines are amphetamines.

Anyone have that green text of a finn who got high on med and terrorized the russians?

>>527936

It's not hard, but man is it time consuming and obvious to anyone remotely near you.

>>527988

What I'm getting from this is that Finland's ultimate weapon won't be in the form of nukes, but them taking a platoon of Finngolians, pointing them in the direction of the enemy lines, and then cramming an entire ziplock bag's worth of meth down each of their throats.

Drink robotussin and you won't feel pain

>it the "natzees were all methed out" meme again

Yes, but with heavy restrictions:

- The drug is to be used only when it is absolutely necessary in order to ensure the safety of yourself or others - be prepared to justify its use every time you take it.

- Transferring your issued dose to someone else is a crime.

- Exceeding your issued dosage in quantity or frequency is a crime.

- Your use of the drug will be monitored, and at any time we may cease to issue it to you.

- If you notice any side-effects of the drug, including tolerance or dependence on it, you must report it; failure to do so is a crime.

- If your dose is lost, stolen, or destroyed, it must be reported immediately; failure to do so is a crime.

>>528116

>rulefag

Let the boys do what they have to do

>>527988

thx mate

>>528128

This is what a saboteur looks like

>>527993

no but gun shoulders and gun helmets do

Adderall is the main choice for many SOFs and mercs. I myself want to try it, but it is near impossible to buy it in the US if you dont have a dealer or prescription. Can't ask family member to go look for a dealer lol.

>>528240

Buccal fent should take effect almost as quickly as intramuscular morphine, and there isn't the infection risk that comes with an injection. My concern would be how intensely sedating fent is. It doesn't take a lot to nod out. That shouldn't be a huge concern though.

>>529566

Coca plant is schedule II in the US and similarly prohibited in much of the West. It isn't hard to bring a few "teabags" back though.

>>529610

>self-chewing gum

Merika u r of greatest ally

>>529567

TSA is bad at their only job. This weekend I went down to my brothers for a wedding over the weekend, bringing only my backpack.

Anectdote time:

I had forgotten I had a bag of peppers in my bag, and apparently it's against the rules to bring food in your bag, they say you have to remove it and place it in a tray first.

Those bag x-rays can only detect liquids or metal, as long as it aint metal or liquid they won't catch it.

>>529664

Oh damn, I repeated myself quite a bit. Forgive me, the alcohol, phenibut, and caffeine are getting to me.

>>529664

>>529665

Funny part about airport security is they don't give a shit if you get things which you might be able to bludgeon someone with such as two big old fifths of rum as long as you got it in the airport.

t. still had a nice flight

>>527607

>Why do they put shitty instant coffee, which needs water to prepare (and is even worse without hot water), in rations instead of Scho-Ka-Kola

They actualy did that in germany durin WW2.

https://youtu.be/hmdLnPGZ0Rc

>>529664

Mate are you dumb? Literally everything impedes X-rays to some degree, if it ain't thin air it's gonna show up on the scan.

>>529723

What are you getting this from? It makes enough sense in any case. My concern would be situations that force discontinuation of the c-pam and escitalopram in situations where it is unexpected. If something goes wrong and someone is cut off without a supply, he will be crippled by combined benzo and SSRI withdrawal.

>>529723

Provigil makes way more sense than Adderall, why so many american operators take the later ? Cheaper/easier to buy ? Thanks for the info mate.

>>529677

That's the point. Why do modern soldiers get shitty instant coffee instead?

>>527936

God you're fucking dumb. You realize we borrow a ton of tactical advice from WW2 Germany? Blitzkrieg? Machine gun units? Air superiority?

>>527494

>Then you have a whole bunch of people who are desperate for their next fix, and they are not going to be able to reintegrate into society very well.

no

they just stop using it

youre an idiot

all these concerns were broached when the Vietnam war was ending

and all the experts reached conclusions about things

read a fucking book instead of talking out of your ass

>>529723

wait a minute, that was my cocktail in the military but found out that tramadol has a minor stimulating effect and you don't need to eat. But the problem is, when it becomes hot and you need to take some sips of water. That get thrown up easily.

Also only was on tramadol for 5 weeks or so, because I broke 3 bones in the foot, which kinda made it hard to walk for some magical reason.

>>532317

Does that happen every time?

>>529566

That bee needs to go to rehab

Nice dubs

>>532317

That did happen a bit, should I only chew half a piece?

>>532533

>>532351

The problem is that no one stops at one piece. Chew one gum, it gets stale, spit it out, pop another in, all fucking day.

Coffee is different, it's hard to make so you drink it rarely. Gum is easy.

>>532540

Gotcha. I noticed that it takes fifteen minutes or so to chew the full dose. Keeping it in my lip didn't seem to do much, so it takes some effort.

>>527464

>hospital stay ends

>go home

>no more opioids because "lol ur fine u dont need it"

>withdrawal sets in

Oh wait it doesn't, and neither did it with all the Vietnam troops doing shitloads of drugs when they went home

>>537033

Not even the troops escape from being fucked up, these days. It's all drowned sorrows and drugged pep, rather than firmly calculated anger.

>>527575

It's pretty much the same. A hardcore stimulant prescribed to kids because they weren't behaving like good little girls in public school.