/k/ - Weapons

They're both excellent quality handguns. Personally I prefer the CZ strongly over the Sig because the lower bore axis makes it a much smoother shooter to me, but you can't go wrong with either.

However:

>Handgun for HD

..why?

>>526975

>Handgun for HD

>..why?

Because I keep a handgun safe next to my bed in case I need to fight my way to my AR15.

>>526978

One more day to thank God I'm not a leaf.

>>526975

Thanks for the input. That's the direction I'm leaning as well. The CZ clone I fired was in 10mm and even that felt perfectly controllable. I know the Sig night sights are fantastic from my P238 but I'm sure the CZs are good as well.

I think I might have to fondle the two of them this weekend and see which one feels better.

>>526977

No, seriously. Are there children involved or something? Why not keep the AR at hand?

>>526981

Everything stays in a safe when I don't have it out. Partially because friends bring their kids over, partially because I'm in a suburb of Chicago and dindus sometimes come out to check up on homes while people are working. I can reach over to my dresser and open my push button handgun safe in 2 seconds, getting my rifle safe open takes a bit longer.

>>526969

Which ever you can hold comfortably and operate under stress with.

>>526980

One thing you'll figure out once you get your hands on one, the CZ is an overbuilt beast. It's pretty heavy for a service size 9mm, and takes some getting used to but that does contribute to it being a damn nice shooter. On the plus side it's a hell of a bludgeoning tool after you're out of reloads. If you do end up deciding on it I'd recommend replacing the factory spring and guide rod straight away with a steel guide rod.

>>526982

That sucks, but you've got to deal with the circumstances you're in.

>>526969

Handguns aren't for home defense, they're for a sidearm or concealed carry. 6/7 people that get shot with handguns survive, and most of those that die die slowly from bleeding. A handgun is not a reliable method for bringing an attacker down, although it's much better than nothing.

Shotguns are ideal for home defense- they are economical, it's easy to find solid home defense ammunition that won't over-penetrate and kill your neighbor, one good blast of buckshot is all you're gonna need to bring the fucker down, and he's not getting up.

Rifles are useful as well, due to their range and lethality, especially if you have a fair amount of land. They're not as good as shotguns for defending yourself within the walls of your home though, and over-penetration is a serious concern.

>>526986

Thanks, that's probably what I'm going to end up doing. Do you recommend a particular guide rod replacement? Is the standard one polymer or just hallow? Captive I hope.

>>527017

Not a captive design unfortunately, but it is full length so you don't have to deal with ridiculous amounts of compression to get it in and out.

I use the stainless steel guide rod and flat wire coil spring combo from CZ Custom, seems to work quite well. The factory polymer guide rod never gave me problems, but after a summer in the Alabama heat and a bit of range time I noticed it warping, not something I like to see.

>>527001

>They're not as good as shotguns for defending yourself within the walls of your home though, and over-penetration is a serious concern.

ANYTHING that will reliably stop a human target will penetrate the walls of your standard american home/apartment.

>>527032

>ANYTHING that will reliably stop a human target will penetrate the walls of your standard american home/apartment.

This is not true at all, and for this reason a handgun is, in a way, perfect for home defense. I hate to recommend 45 auto or 40 s&w for any reason, but there are plenty of loads in these calibers that will expand to double their size, blow a big old hole in a person, but just barely meet the 12" FBI penetration standards. Something like this is the gold standard for anti-personnel purposes where overpenetration is NOT an option.

Look at the classic 110 gr. semi-jacketed hollowpoint in .357 magnum. Piss poor penetration, but wide, reliable expansion (for the time.) This load was specifically developed for the Secret Service, who figured the most likely defensive scenario would be shooting an unarmored guy in a crowd.

I guess what I'm saying is that the 12-18" penetration standard for the FBI was created with barrier penetration in the field in mind, but in reality you need a lot less than that for a typical home defense situation. It's really all about the expansion for man-stopping.

Check out

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

The most amazing thing on that page is the 230 gr. Winchester Ranger T in 45 auto. 1.00" expansion, with 4/5 test rounds being on the low side of the 12-18" standard through thick clothing. This would be a nearly IDEAL round for home defense, as you can be pretty damn sure that all that energy would be dumped into the target.

>>527073

Another thing to remember is that in almost every case in a home invasion, the target will be stopped psychologically. This is why the lowly .22 has such a high rate of stopping people - the .22 is easy to shoot people with, and people who get shot by anything tend to give up.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

If you take something away from my rambling, it should be this: most people who get shot will stop, so if overpenetration is an issue for you then minimizing it should be the #1 priority, even if it leads to using a less-effective weapon. There are, however, weapons systems and cartridges that can deliver great terminal ballistics without overpenetrating.

Thanks guys, ended up buying a CZ75 SP-01 Tactical for $672.69 out the door.

>>527078

>most people who get shot will stop

[citation woefully needed]

>>527078

I know when my family is in danger I want to trust their lives to 'statistically most people are stopped psychologically'. That's why you keep an unloaded shotgun around so you can rack the slide and scare the intruders off.

The rest of your drivel isn't even worth commenting on, you're just wrong.

>>527392

That's not terrible at all. Remember the golden rule, Mecgars just as good as factory mags and cheaper. Midway runs specials on the 19+1 Mecgar mags with some regularity, so you're paying $25 a mag as opposed to $60.

>>527537

Wish I had seen this a few minutes ago, just bought a 19 and 26 round mag from CZ. Oh well, with the 2 18s it comes with I should be set.

Now to see if I can justify the $1250 on a Benelli M2…

>>527549

>Now to see if I can justify the $1250 on a Benelli M2

Why not a VEPR while they're still available? Or a Mossberg JMPro and a shitload of ammo?

>>527469

Anon most criminals won't even think of breaking into a house with a dog and you think they are gonna keep going on with their home invasion after they have been shot?

>>527604

Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.

>>527716

Adrenaline is part of the fight or flight response, and after you have already been shot once and you have no gun of your own you start to flight rather than fight.

PCP on the other hand you might want a few 30 round mags of whatever you are using

I'm trying to pick my first firearm. I want it to be a full size semi auto handgun. The options are overwhelming. I'm leaning towards getting an M&P9 or G17. The problem is that I don't want to fork over 500 plus for a hobby that I'm just getting into when I'll be going to the range a few times per year tops. I'm thinking about getting something cheaper like a SD9VE or Creed. I've been leaning towards 9mm but I think I might get a 22LR like a Victory or P22 because it's for range practice. It's a quandary.

>>527742

>The problem is that I don't want to fork over 500 plus for a hobby that I'm just getting into

Just buy a .22 then until you get your mindset right.

>>527549

My father has an M2 and it's a great piece of equipment, can't help you with the price though

>>527742

If you want a 9mm get a 92FS in stainless, it's pretty to look at if you get bored of shooting it

>>527742

>>527850

This

Just buy a good 22 like a ruger or walther to plink 500 rounds for about 40 dollars. If you want defense too buy a ~$300 22lr pistol then buy a >$200 chinese shotgun like a savage stevens or a $200 mossberg maverick. That is the ultimate poor fag combo to last you one week till you start wanting a real gun that shoots something other than shot.

tl;dr

shotguns

/thread

>>527850

>>527865

Is a .22 really that boring? In terms of pistol cartridges, I've only shot a 9mm so far. I'll rent a .22 the next time I'm at the range. If I like it, I'll buy it.

>>527914

Ruger 22lr pistols are stupid accurate, the one downside is they're a complete cunt to take down. Also they've got the ergonomics of a Nambu.

>>527931

The difficult takedown was fixed in the Mark 4. I'll check it out if the shop has it.

>>527931

Takedown was never really a problem. Putting it back together was a bitch unless you followed the proper steps. Used to have plenty of Mark 2/3's brought into the shop in a box because the owners couldn't get them back together.

>>527001

If you shoot a home invader with a handgun most are not going to continue running off with your TV, or continue attacking you once shot.

>6/7 survive

Good. Why would you want the unnecessary trouble that comes with trying to prove you killed someone in self defense and had no other option. Some places have stricter laws than others and those of us in those places just want to stop the invader, we don't have anything to prove by blowing the guy's head off quicker than a guy with a different gun.

>>527604

Dogs make a lot of noise. They can easily be killed, but if everyone knows you're breaking into a house it makes it a lot more difficult to steal stuff.

Anon's comments are just weird. Unless you're a former spy or criminal trying to protect yourself from a bitter, vengeful ex-college you screwed over in a past life, why do you need a one shot kill?

>>527537

>'statistically most people are stopped psychologically'

To be fair, 'psychological incapacitation' typically means

>Oh shit, I've been shot. I'm suddenly much less interested in continuing my assault and much more interested in stopping my precious life fluid from leaking out.

As opposed to 'physical incapacitation', which is for the mythical 300 pound gorilla on PCP.

>>527392

Congrats, I'm very happy with my SP01 Shadow.

>>527537

>Mecgars just as good as factory mags and cheaper.

Agreed. I have several and they function with no issue.

My home defense is a S&W Model 19. I have no qualms with picking up a pistol nicknamed the Combat Magnum.

There's no such thing as a home-defense hand gun unless you're a woman. There's only rifles if you don't mind holes in the wall, and shotguns with a mix of first shot bird shot, rest of it buckshot or slugs.

Handguns are for outdoor defense/when you need to quickly reach for a gun. They aren't meant for when you have several seconds to reach down, grab your rifle/shotgun, and locate the trespassers.

>>527960

If he leaves your property injured, the lawsuits are gonna fuck you over a lot more than making up a one-sided story about how he attacked you to a judge who's probably not going to give a shit, anon.

>>537432

>get culturally enriched by living defendant and witness

NO SURVIVORS

ruger gp100 with 158 gr .357 JHP

if I need more than that I'm grabbing my AR.