/islam/ - 8ch Masjid

No linking to hadith-rejector websites.

>>>/modernislam/

http://www.minhaj.org/english/tid/638/Believers-are-told-in-the-Quran-to-obey-the-Sunnah-of-the-Prophet-saas.html

Nice article on why we don't separate Qur'an and the Sunnah.

So called "quranists" aren't upon anything.

you guys are really missing the entire point of my post.

>>23838

No, we know the point. You want to discuss abrogation. What's to discuss? You can't just put up a blanket "How do you feel about X?" and expect any sort of serious answer.

If you have a specific question, then ask; though you might want to check the QTDDTOT thread first. Abrogation has been discussed on this board at length. It's a fascinating topic. Though I will admit that it's most often brought up by either Quranists or Christians trying to debunk Islam. Not accusing you of that, just sayin'.

>>23839

>abrogation

>christians

I always get a kick out of that because there is abrogation in the Jewish Bible, the Christian Bible abrogates virtually all of the Jewish Bible, the gospels abrogate eachother, then Paul (may Allah cast him into a deep fire, ameen) comes along and abrogates Jesus pbuh himself.

When a judeochristian, especially one of the trini variety, tries to use abrogation against Islam they're merely spitting in the wind.

>>23840

Peter also abrogates Jesus too.

The abrogation in Quran is God abrogating His own statements/commands in a progressive fashion. Some of the Jewish Bible is perhaps this, but we know much of the judeochristian scripture is man abrogating God or a follower abrogating a prophet.

My dear brother it seems this thread has been derailed. I will attempt to answer your question inshaAllah

I don't believe in abrogation, it just depends how you see it, there is no contradictions in the quran so all of it is applicable all the time.

The word used in 2:106 is naskh which can also mean write. This verse applies to the earlier scriptures like the torah or gospel since they were forgotten with time that is why it says:

"We do not write down a verse or make it forgotten except We replace with a better or a similar one. Do you not know that God is over all things competent? " 2:106

proof naskh means write and not abrogate:

7:154

45:29

>>23844

But "We replace with a better or a similar one" is a reply to both "naskh" and "make it forgotten", so you're saying the meaning becomes "We do not write down a verse … except We replace with a better or similar one" which doesn't seem to fit.

>proof naskh means write and not abrogate:

No one's saying it can not mean write ever. The examples you provided do not prove it means write in that verse specifically.

>>23844

>I don't believe in abrogation, it just depends how you see it, there is no contradictions in the quran

Abrogation does not mean contradiction if it's carried out by the original party. Abrogation then means repeal and supersede. Islam was revealed gradually and verses about not coming to prayer drunk for instance are abrogated by verses that prohibit alcohol always. It's not a contradiction since now we still can't come to prayers drunk, it's a cohesive development.

If you say "Oh I don't follow abrogation" you're basically saying you take the Quran out of its historical context - ENTIRELY - and you treat it like a Ouija board. So if you reject abrogation then what is stopping you from drinking alcohol except when there is prayer time? The reason is you already follow abrogation you just don't know it.

>>23841

Actually, Peter was on to Paul's shenanigans. And a lot of Peter's writings were faked by students of Paul.

>>23846

>we still can't come to prayers drunk

the verse would still apply to alcoholic muslims

>>23854

>alcoholic muslim

When a muslim drinks alcohol he is a fasiq, also he is not muslim in that moment. And his prayers are not accepted for forty days.

There are no "gay muslims" no "alcoholic muslims" no "bacon addicted muslims."

There are weak-willed major and repetitive sinners amongst us that have no self-control - their sins don't become an identity. We give them prayers and naseeha, not some feelgood psuedoclinical diagnosis. We can also read Quran on them or help them if they need to escape a bad living situation pushing them to sin from desperation perhaps. But we don't create a "disease" that excuses them or in some way downplays their agency.

>>23855

I'm pretty sure addictions are real though.

>>23857

The cause of being addicted to a sin is a conscious choice to start the sin before being addicted to it. So the basis for a muslim to have an "addiction" is willfull disobedience of Allah - conscious sin.

>>23858

First of all the addiction could've been from before he/she was even muslim. So the original sin of drinking is erased but the person's addiction is still there. Secondly, it being a sin doesn't detract from it being an addiction anyway.

>>23859

>First of all the addiction could've been from before he/she was even muslim.

I thought I could have a reasonable conversation here with a somewhat understood premise. In other words a straightforward discussion without listing every potential hypothetical outlier under the sun. Trust me, I'm more than capable of covering every theoretical potentiality in a back-and-forth. I don't want to, this is my chillspace. And someone that goes there is likely a disrupter. If you're here to disrupt and score points then just let me know, we can take this to the trini thread and I can crush your arguments. If not, then we can both just chill.

>So the original sin of drinking is erased but the person's addiction is still there.

I don't think drinking and drugs is a sin for non-muslims to begin with. And an addiction is a repetition of sin and a general proclivity towards a certain sin - it can't be divorced from sin.

>Secondly, it being a sin doesn't detract from it being an addiction anyway.

First principles. Something being an addiction doesn't detract from it being a sin. And don't tell me "God hates the sin but loves the sinner" - God throws sinners into hell, not sins.

Have a nice day.

>>23860

A muslim can be an alcoholic and admitting this does not mean anyone's saying alcohol is halal. Addictions are real and not a "creation" to justify sin.

There was nothing wrong with that poster writing "alcoholic muslim", he wasn't trying to create a new identity, he was describing a muslim who drinks, and hence, he's saying the verse would still apply to him, namely, that the person should not approach prayer when he's intoxicated. Your reply did not address his point which was about the topic of abrogation rather you went on a tangent about identity issues and addictions not existing.

Thanks for the replies guys, but the main point, i believe, on why I made this thread is because there are people that say "violent verses take over the peaceful verses. there fore all peaceful verses like no compulsion in religion and the "for you be your religion and for me be mine" is abrogated by other verses. namely, meccan and median verses"

>>23855

sinning does not make one a kaffir this is khawarij mentality

>>23863

>A muslim can be an alcoholic and admitting this does not mean anyone's saying alcohol is halal.

Except

1) we have a clear hadith that when a muslim drinks he is temporarily outside Islam so at best someone can be a sometimes muslim/sometimes alcoholic but never a muslim alcoholic since it's impossible contemporaneously.

2) this is a failure to realize that at some point sheer absurdity and new identities will emerge regardless of the intent - it's the natural byproduct of entertaining such silly ideas.

Why not Adult-Baby Muslims, you know grown muslims that just happen to be addicted to wearing diapers? Or cross dressing muslims, muslims addicted to dressing like the opposite gender? Gay muslims? Muslims that just so happen to be struggling with sodomy addiction. Where do we draw the line?

Muslims must refuse to give in to these manmade syndromes and their inescapable identities. Identifying eachother based on sins is totally foreign to Islam, it is the new tribalism of the "west". And inshaAllah we can outlast this diseased society and contribute to its renaissance rather than allow ourselves to become infected.

I'd like to see evidence that I'm discussing this with brothers that are posting in good faith and not weasel trolls perpetuating DSM-5 bollocks that downplays sin in order to drag us down to the level of others.

Our religion deals with matters first as sins and good deeds not the "isms" of irreligious societies.

>>23863

Exactly this, the muslim who drinks is a grave sinner but if he is trying to cure himself then these verses are applied until he is fully sober again. Its a step by step process nobody can quit addictions cold turkey or they just fall back in and with depression.

>>23865

This is only salafi aqeeda not all sunnah

>>23866

Sahih hadith show drinking alcohol and refusing to pray salah temporarily remove someone from Islam. You're basically calling Rasoolullah pbuh a kharijite - fear Allah.

>>23867

I dont want to turn this into an identity thread but being gay and muslim is not an oxymoron as long as he does not commit sodomy its not a sin.

>>23871

If you call yourself "gay" you've already given an inch to shaytan. If shaytan whispers about something the last thing you do is start identifying yourself by the whispers. Come on guys.

>>23872

Homosexuality is the sexual attraction to men right? If a man who happens to be muslim and a homosexual but resists his urges there is no haram in this.

>>23871

A lot of Muslims, particularly in the West (I'm sad to say) who were raised in a Christian environment, tend to believe in the idea of "thought crime". Christians believe that even thinking about something constitutes sin and it's difficult for them to understand the difference between being homosexual and performing homosexual acts.

It's why many protestants especially believe that homosexuals cannot possibly be "saved". Though it does make me glad I'm in the United States, where religion is protected. We all sometimes have dirty or criminal thoughts. If thought is a crime, then we are all destined for the gallows.

It is necessary, of course, to recognize within ourselves the pull toward temptation and to avoid it; but if our thoughts go astray, we refocus through Qur'an and the teachings of the Prophet(pbuh) to steer back toward the right path.

>>23872

Heterosexual sex outside of marriage is haram. So, does the heterosexual who sees a beautiful woman and silently has lust, but then casts down his eyes and abstains from acting on his urges, then is he too bound for the fire?

>>23869

Mekiyya - most applicable when Muslims in non-Muslim state

Madiniyyah - most applicable when Muslims in Muslim state

That's universally understood, implicitly or not, by muslims.

>>23876

No, because according to sahih hadith having a sinful thought but refusing to act on it counts as a good deed.

>>23867

>1) we have a clear hadith that when a muslim drinks he is temporarily outside Islam

Your own personal hadith methodology has come to a different conclusion of that hadith than that of scholars. No one takes it to mean that committing a sin means you're a "temporary" kafir literally. The position of ahlussunnah is that major sins does not take you out of Islam.

>identities etc etc

This wasn't the topic. I agree that one should not identify themselves as being a drinker of alcohol, but that was never what anyone did here. Alcoholic muslim meant a muslim that is alcoholic. You're making a problem where there isn't one.

>>23870

This post makes me think you're a troll.

>>23873

>homosexual

Dude, just say a muslim with "homo whispers". Would it kill you to separate the muslim from his burdensome whispers?

>>23878

>having a sinful thought but refusing to act on it counts as a good deed

Bingo!

>>23879

>>23879

>no one

No one except Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Sheikh Muhammad ibn Uthaymeen and thousands of Ulema between them…

>>23885

>Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Sheikh Muhammad ibn Uthaymeen

t.salafi

>>23886

>t. pretends to be gung-ho supporter of all four madahab, Mr. Mainstream, has Imam Ahmad thrown in his face, spills spaghetti.

I love when that happens.

>>23888

supporting =/= agreeing

>>23886

Wait, what's wrong with being Salafi?

>>23890

>because we're all sunni

Not all of us. But we all have Qu'ran and the Sunnah. 👆

>>23891

They tend to be extremely narrow minded. The idea is that you follow the Islam as understood by the salaf. Sounds good, but in practice they mean making absolute taqlid of four contemporary scholars in Saudi Arabia who have monopoly on Islam. And since most of their English speaking laymen don't understand Arabic anyway, salafism becomes following one person translating the stuff from four persons.

>>23893

Spare the glib stereotypes and sweeping generalizations about millions of other muslims, especially le ebic salabi boogeymen. This isn't reddit. Future posts that deride salafis or other sunnis are going to be met with temporary bans.

And yes, retreating to character assassination means you lost the discussion. You said no scholars held x opinion and the other brother showed that ONE ENTIRE MADHAB HOLDS THAT OPINION. You are either ignorant of the Hanbali school or you don't even know the difference between ijma and ikhtilaf.

Not impressed.

-vol.

>>23894

>the other brother showed that ONE ENTIRE MADHAB HOLDS THAT OPINION.

No he didn't. He claimed that but showed no proof. Perhaps you're sitting on the proof that the Hanbali madhhab considers the person making a major sin to be a murtad? Go ahead and share please.

>don't make sweeping generalizations about people this isn't reddit

Yeah because that never takes place on 4 or 8chan.

>millions of other muslims

I'm talking about the salafiyya movement. I didn't realize this wasn't allowed.

In fact it's the poster claiming that salat is kufr that is missing the facts entirely. First of all he is confusing two hadiths, namely the one about the person who drink alcohol's prayer not being accepted for forty days, and the one about a muslim not being a believer during zina.

So he claims that he's kafir because his prayer is not accepted. But wait a sec:

>The fact that his prayers are not accepted does not mean that they are not valid, or that he should give up praying, rather it means that he will not be rewarded for them.

https://islamqa.info/en/27143

So he's not getting anything right. This is on top of showing his ignorance of sunnism.

>sinning does not make one a kaffir this is khawarij mentality

This is the sunni position that everyone knows.

>>23870

>You're basically calling Rasoolullah pbuh a kharijite - fear Allah.

This is the reply of someone very ignorant.

As for hanbalis considering zina to be apostasy due to the above referred to hadith then of course that's not true either.

Here's ibn Taymiyya saying that such a view is that of the khawarij which is what >>23866 said that >>23870 rejected

>الناس في الفاسق من أهل الملة مثل الزاني والسارق والشارب ونحوهم " ثلاثة أقسام " : طرفين ووسط . ( أحد الطرفين : أنه ليس بمؤمن بوجه من الوجوه ولا يدخل في عموم الأحكام المتعلقة باسم الإيمان ثم من هؤلاء من يقول : هو كافر : كاليهودي والنصراني . وهو قول الخوارج

http://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?idfrom=786&idto=787&bk_no=22&ID=472

>>23896

And he goes on regarding the ahlussunah view

>وعند هذا فالقول الوسط الذي هو قول أهل السنة والجماعة أنهم لا يسلبون الاسم على الإطلاق ولا يعطونه على الإطلاق . فنقول : هو مؤمن ناقص الإيمان أو مؤمن عاص أو مؤمن بإيمانه فاسق بكبيرته ويقال : ليس بمؤمن حقا أو ليس بصادق الإيمان . وكل كلام أطلق في الكتاب والسنة فلا بد أن يقترن به ما يبين المراد منه . والأحكام منها ما يترتب على أصل الإيمان فقط ; كجواز العتق في الكفارة وكالموالاة والموارثة ونحو ذلك ومنها ما يترتب على أصله وفرعه : كاستحقاق الحمد والثواب وغفران السيئات ونحو ذلك

So clearly, >>23870 has no idea what he's talking about, has no idea what sunnism holds for position, and has no idea what hanbalis say.

>>23895

>>23895

Wow. Uthaymin is specifically known for articulating that position and so is Imam Hanbal. You're like the opposite of a seeker of knowledge, you literally are demanding to be spoonfed each and every tidbit. Or what? You'll gladly deny truth because someone didn't feed you a google link? We are talking about deen, be serious. Look it up yourself, for your own benefit.

>Yeah because that never takes place on 4 or 8chan.

You can make all the sweeping generalizations you want about non-muslims here. The muslims honor is sacred here on /islam/ this is a mosque.

>I'm talking about the salafiyya movement. I didn't realize this wasn't allowed.

You were disparaging the movement. ASWJ in general has been influenced by Salafi manhaj to such an extent that they have benefited from the movement greatly even if they see themselves as distinct from it - or even oppose it. The level of bidah in this ummah when the salafi and deobandi dawah began centuries ago is almost unfathomable now. Too many muslims take the status quo for granted when the struggle against the bidah was hardfought and yes, still must continue in some areas. But it was much worse in the past.

>>23896

>First of all he is confusing two hadiths, namely the one about the person who drink alcohol's prayer not being accepted for forty days, and the one about a muslim not being a believer during zina.

No, you're just a jahil.

From Sahihayn

>“No one who commits zina is a believer at the moment when he is committing zina, and no one who drinks wine is a believer at the moment when he is drinking it, and no thief is a believer at the moment when he is stealing, and no robber is a believer at the moment when he is robbing and the people are looking on.”

>As for hanbalis considering zina to be apostasy …

Strawman. Hanbalis consider leaving the salah apostasy. Are you done yet?

>Uthaymin is specifically known for articulating that position

Oh that's funny because here's his fatwa

> وإما أن يكون المراد نفي كمال الإيمان في تلك اللحظة لكنه يكون ناقصاً نقصاً بيناً استحق به أن يوصف بالنفي. وهذا الأخير عندي أقرب وهو الذي عليه أهل السنة والجماعة

So either you're lying or you're saying Ibn Uthaymeen has made contradicting fatawa.

http://binothaimeen.net/content/11756

>You're like the opposite of a seeker of knowledge,

I'm the only one providing sources so far but okay.

>The muslims honor is sacred here on /islam/ this is a mosque.

Well clearly not that sacred since you make takfir of major sins.

>From Sahihayn

Read Ibn Tamiyyas commentary I linked to above. Your interpretation is that of the khawarij according to him.

>Strawman.

Haha strawman it was literally your claim. So asking for proof is a strawman now.

Original claim

>Sahih hadith show drinking alcohol and refusing to pray salah temporarily remove someone from Islam

hadith

>no one who drinks wine is a believer at the moment when he is drinking it

So as we can see, not even the THAHIR agrees with the original claim, let alone your unqualified interpretation of the hadith.

>>23870

>refusing to pray salah temporarily remove someone from Islam

But here I thought the hanbali view was that it was kufr and not temporary? Seems like I found another error in your claim. It feels like every time I re-read your post some new error comes up that I have to point out.

>>23900

Stop talking about zina taking someone outside islam, no one claimed that. Read Uthaymin's fatwa about someone who refuses to pray. That's it.

>>23901

I'll fix that for you, boy.

Original claim: someone can be an "alcoholic muslim"

Counter claim: actually no because when a muslim drinks theyre outside islam in that moment. Literally a sahih hadith in bukhari and muslim.

>>23903

Here is his fatwa

>لذلك يجب اعتماد القول بأن المراد بذلك انتفاء كمال الإيمان، فمعنى لا يزني الزاني حين يزني وهو مؤمن، أي لا يزني الزاني حين يزني وهو مؤمن كامل الإيمان، بل لابد أن يكون إيمانه ناقصاً بهذا الزنى، وكذلك يقال في السارق.

So in conclusion, what Ibn Uthaymeen says that we have to understand the hadith as meaning that the zani, during his zina,(same for the drinker etc) does not have a COMPLETE Imaan. His Imaan is deficient(due to the major sin). He does not say that he's a kafir, or a murtadd, or a mushrik, as claims.

And what is clear to me is that you HAVE no sources. You did not address any of my points because you could not. You do not know what the position of sunnis or hanbalis are. I posted the proof that you ignored. You have posted absolutely nothing from any sunni authority. All you can muster up is post a hadith and then provide your DIY interpretation.

I am not impressed.

>>23902

Temporary kufr until the salah is re-established and one repents. And the fatwas are not "contradictory" since they have different evidences. And I never even said I subscribe to this view, I'm just representing a sunni view and now you're saying "you make takfir on khabair blah blah." Just stop it.

>>23898

>the struggle against the bidah

You are inventing new interpretations of hadiths that you can not provide source for from sunni authoritites. You are committing bidah here do doubt.

>I'm just representing a sunni view

Except Ibn Taymiyya says your view is that of the khawarij as I've laid out in >>23896

So there are two possibilites:

1. You're not representing the view of sunnis

2. You are excluding Ibn Taymiyya from sunnis

>>23903

>refuses to pray

Not the topic, we've talking about alcohol from the start.

>>23905

STOP TALKING ABOUT ZINA

THE CLAIM WAS UTHAYMIN SAID ABANDONING SALAH TAKES SOMEONE OUTSIDE ISLAM

HERE IS THE FATWA YOU JAHIL

English

>“According to the majority opinion, whoever leaves off a single (obligatory) prayer then he does not become a kaafir unless he abandoned it completely” [Shaykh Ibn 'Uthaymeen Fatawaa Manaar al-Islam - Volume 1, Page 131, Question No.99]

>Shaykh ‘Uthaymeen says that a person who abandons Salaah altogether is a kaafir, and not one who prays a couple of prayers a day, because the Prophet said, “Between a person and al-kufr and shirk is his leaving the Salaah” and not “leaving a Salaah.” (Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen Ash-Sharh al-Mumti p. 26)

>Among the evidence to be found in the Qur’an is: The ayah (interpretation of the meaning): “But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism], perform As-Salaat and give Zakaat, then they are your brethren in religion.”[9:11]

http://ahlultaqwa.com/media/ebooks/english/fiqh/AbandoningSalat.pdf

Arabic:

https://ar.islamway.net/fatwa/16522/رسالة-في-حكم-تارك-الصلاة

>>23910

>THE CLAIM WAS UTHAYMIN SAID ABANDONING SALAH TAKES SOMEONE OUTSIDE ISLAM

No it wasn't, stop lying.

>>23855

>When a muslim drinks alcohol he is a fasiq, also he is not muslim in that moment

>HERE IS THE FATWA YOU JAHIL

It's not "the" fatwa talked. And I see we've started insulting each other now how nice.

Okay so it only took you 30 ish posts to post proof. Of course it was proof of a totally different thing that had nothing to do with the subject.

Next time I'll know not to expect anything more.

>claim: you're not a muslim when drinking alcohol

>proof: fatwa by Ibn Uthaymeen about leaving the salat

Allah ul-musta'an

>>23913

Let's see

>>23879

>No one takes it to mean that committing a sin means you're a "temporary" kafir literally. The position of ahlussunnah is that major sins does not take you out of Islam.

Guess what, abandoning salah is a major sin that indicates KUFR AKBAR so is refusing to pay zakat. As per the ayat:

If they …perform As-Salaat and give Zakaat, then they are your brethren in religion.

And the hadith

the Prophet said, “Between a person and al-kufr and shirk is his leaving the Salaah”

We have always known that some major sins nullify Islam. Refusing to pay zakat is a major sin AND ALSO Riddah - or do you disagree with Abu Bakr ra?

>>23914

>still going on about prayer

Can't you read? It's like I'm arguing with a wall here. It was not the topic.

>Refusing to pay zakat is a major sin AND ALSO Riddah - or do you disagree with Abu Bakr ra?

And again your ignorance shows.

>If he does not believe that it is obligatory, then he is a kaafir according to the consensus of the Muslims, because he is denying something that no Muslim has any excuse for not knowing. If he believes that it is obligatory but he does not pay it because he is stingy, then he is not a kaafir according to the majority of scholars, but some of the scholars are of the view that he is a kaafir.

https://islamqa.info/en/93701

I won't be responding to your nonsense anymore because you've ignored everyone one of my posts. You live in your own world.

>>23915

Calls me ignorant, quotes islamqa that supports me.

Don't you redditors use that penguin meme for that kinda stuff?

>>23917

He absolutely refuted your claim that drinking makes you a murtad. It does not because

The position of ahlussunnah is that major sins does not take you out of Islam.

The argument started about muslim alcoholics. Stay on topic or admit defeat

>>23919

>He absolutely refuted your claim that drinking makes you a murtad.

No one claimed that. What we have is a clear hadith that the believer is not a believer while engaged in drinking. The person has so little iman at that moment that the prophet pbuh is too shy to even refer to them as muslims - AT THAT MOMENT. But they still have legal rights as muslims and are punished for their crimes - not apostasy.

That hadith shows a linguistic point, not a legal point.

>The position of ahlussunnah is that major sins does not take you out of Islam.

Not according to the opinion I follow. Refusing to pray and refusing to give zakah takes you outside of Islam. That is an accepted opinion within Sunni Islam that I hold to and you can't disparage someone when there is scholarly ikhtilaf. Perhaps you are thinking about the way we describe khawarij and contrast them to ourselves - the difference is they make takfir on sinful muslims that still maintain the five pillars. If a muslim rejects one of the pillars that is a monumental sin that takes him out of Islam. That's the reality, maybe your favorite celebrity da'ee glossed over that.

>The argument started about muslim alcoholics. Stay on topic or admit defeat

A sahih hadith from both imam bukhari and imam muslim that shows the view of Muhammad pbuh on how asinine the term "muslim alcoholic" is definitely of interest. Instead we get a lot of emotions and fatwa shopping tangents to dodge my clear objection to the victimhood terminology.

Someone even admitted that the term "muslim alcoholic" was objectionable but be kept copy-pasting off-topic fatwas about zina.

End of story; my views are a respected position within Islam and you need to stop making fitna by attacking my views as outside ASWJ.

And if you like fatwa shopping so much then ask a scholar if we can use the term "muslim alcoholic." More than a few will agree with me that it's like saying "muslim pig eater." It's absurd.

>>23920

Just throwing this out there …

An alcoholic is still an alcoholic even if he never drinks. Addiction is something that clings to you for life and is something you constantly struggle with every day. Over time this struggle becomes easier, but it's always there, lurking behind you, waiting to grab hold of you.

In that sense it is possible for there to be a Muslim alcoholic.

>>23921

Dude, that's from AA teaching. AA is a christian movement. They were forced to create a special group of christianity against alcohol because their religion is both incomplete and has ritual use of intoxicants.

>>23922

Not exactly from AA, though AA did incorporate the idea of it. Addiction to anything is a terrible way to live and it truly is something one struggles with their entire lives. It is a fairly common inner-Jihad. Whether it's alcohol, drugs, video games, masturbation, or any form that addiction can take; it's not something one can simply "get rid of". If you could "just stop", then it wouldn't be addiction.

A habit can be changed with a little effort. Addiction is with you for life.

>>23923

>>23923

I'm convinced that now we're just disagreeing about terminology due to a lack of establishing terms. I dislike any variant of the word addiction since it is often used as an absolvement by people for destructive behavior. If we can agree that having an addiction is a fierce satanic predilection towards a certain sin and it does not absolve the person of sinning in the sight of Allah then I have no problem with the term.

And let us remember:

No addictive behavior is too ingrained for Allah swt to remove. And perhaps we don't chastise ourselves as onanists or drunkards "in recovery" if the sin is behind us by Allah's grace and our hard struggle.

>>23924

Well, yeah, a lot of it does come down to terminology. It is the curse of languages. And, yes, I do agree that being addicted to something does not absolve the sin of falling into the temptation. A man can be an alcoholic, but must struggle to avoid alcohol. Being an addict does not absolve him of drinking alcohol. On that we are in 100% agreement.

But, it's also important to remember that all of us struggle with something and we should not look down on our brother's struggle when we have our own demons whispering to us.

>>23925

Im in 100% agreement with this post.

>>23924

Do you also dislike the term "withdrawal symptoms"?

>>23927

No but I dislike trolls. Now cool it.

O ye who believe! Intoxicants and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed.

Everything about khamr, even the withdrawal sickness is traced back to shayateen.

And there is blessing in all sickness so surely more in one that would occur from a noble intention to reform oneself.

Umm Al-Alā reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, visited me when I was sick, and he said, “Be cheerful, O mother of Al-Alā, for when a Muslim becomes sick, Allah takes away his sins just as fire takes away impurities in gold and silver.”

Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 3092

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani