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/islam/ - 8ch Masjid

Certainly the promise of Allah is true. Let not then this present life deceive you.
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"Allah is but one God. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs." [4:171]

File: 35ce8172ebdb5c9⋯.jpeg (378.47 KB, 1523x1004, 1523:1004, image.jpeg)

bd12d1  No.22127

What is the Islamic point of view on morality? The way it seems to me is that "morality", in the philosophical sense, is an entirely subjective notion with origins in Europe, maybe going back as far as the Greeks. If you look at the way the Hebrew OT, for example, uses the words "tov" and "ra", it arguably never (debatable point, which is why I made this thread) carries a "moral" meaning in the modern sense. So when Eve sees the fruit of the tree she was forbidden to eat from it says that it appeared to her as being "tov" (i.e. good) for eating. This is obviously not a moral statement. Generally "tov" seems to carry connotations of pleasant, wholesome, advantageous, comforting, and so on, while "ra" carries connotations of dangerous, diseased, disadvantageous, harmful, unpleasant etc. What about the Quran then? Well I'm not a native Arabic speaker, and this idea just occured to me a few minutes ago as I was reading surat as-Sajdah, so I haven't had time to look into it deeply. I noticed the following verse (7) as I was reading: "Who made all things good which He created…". The word there, I believe is "ahsan" which from what I can gather means perfect, excellent, and beautiful. This is no different than if a carpenter made a table and one called it perfect. It wouldn't mean that it was a very moral table, which would be absurd, but rather that it was very well proportioned, beautiful, containing no dents or scratches, etc.

If the moral point of view turns out to have no sanction in the Quran that would have tremendous consequences. It would mean that we have been influenced by a modern concept which we have been retroactively reading into a text in which it is not even present in the first place, thus subtly distorting our view of that text. How many other such concepts have been intoduced into our thinking?

As for defining what the "moral point of view" even is, that is admittedly difficult. It's a notoriously vague concept with a lot of sentimental overtones. There's a reason European philosophy has struggled with those notions for so long, never really managing to propose a coherent justification for it. As far back as Plato's Euthyphro you find paradoxes such as the "Is something good because God commands it or does God command it because it is good?". The real problem with that paradox is how ill-defined and imprecisely the term "good" is being used (which is basicaly the point of the dialogue, i.e. Socrates is trying to show Euthyphro he has imprecise and poorly defined notions). The lack of any serious foundation for "morality" is probably the main reason for the crisis of nihilism Europe is undergoing.

So what are the different terms in the Quran conventionally translated as "good", and what meaning do they actually carry? Does the Quran actually sanction a "moral point of view"? I won't deny my bias from the outset. I really hope it doesn't sanction such a view since I simply can't take "morality" in the conventional sense seriously. In any case, I hope to benefit the knowledge and assistance of fellow board members on this dilemma, insha'Allah.

7e86a0  No.22129

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Well, Abdullah ibn Masood (r) said that what the muslims (meaning his contemporaries) consider as good, so does Allah (swt). That is often mistakenly considered a hadith, but it is not. And there's a basic principle in the Sharia that unless something would contravene or lead to what Allah and His Rasool (saw) have forbidden then it is accepted as "good."

>So what are the different terms in the Quran conventionally translated as "good", and what meaning do they actually carry?

What comes to mind for me is khayr and maroof. Maroof is derived from Urf and khayr is synonymous with wealth.

>I really hope it doesn't sanction such a view since I simply can't take "morality" in the conventional sense seriously.

Me either and my understanding is we take our worldview aka "morality" from the Quran and Sunnah, we don't try to fit Islam into our manmade morality.




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