/islam/ - 8ch Masjid

These attacks are done by people who think they are Muslim, and they do these attacks because they don't have an Islamic understanding of takfir. This terrorist ideology of takfiri extremism is exported by Salafi governments. As I have said before. The problem with Salafis and Wahhabis is the ideology itself. They don't understand takfir. Not the founder of Wahhabism, Al Wahhab (1700), but also his greatest influence, ibn Taymiyyah (1300). It was Taymiyyah who said that it's okay for muslims to kill other muslims. That is retarded. Wahhabism and Salafism allows the individual point the finger and accuse a Muslim of being an apostate and then killing them. All the terrorists have the same ideology but still kill each other because of this. Takfir cannot be done by an individual, there must be a court system to allow this, and all other schools of thought agree, including the Sunnis. Not to mention, Taymiyyah was literally made enemy of the state and died in prison. No one (important) respected anything he said for 500 years.

>>20997

The mongols called themselves muslim as they continued to slaughter. The people were encouraged to fight back despite this as is their right by Allah and you should check out the size and scope of Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah's janazah before you claim he died as a marginal figure. It'd be cool if you brought forth some specifics ie primary sources ie quotes from the works of the shuyukh you slander rather than tossing around floating signifiers like "wahabbi" and "salafi." Until you bring these proofs from the abundant and easily accesible books of those two men a meaningful discussion is impossible. Btw Sh. Yusuf Estes has given copies of Kitab at Tawheed to people that backbite Sh. Abdul Wahab - with the cover removed and asked them what they think. What do you think they say?

>>20998

>What you say about western imperialism is not wrong though. Oh wait WTF

>The more retarded support for Assad

>Assad has literally done nothing wrong.

The Alawi domination of Syria, indeed even the existence of Syria is a western imperialist contrivance. You lot talk about a plan to "break up Syria so there is no large state to counter Israel." That is exactly what Syria already is. Assad's secretive parasitic sect was instrumental in breaking up the United Arab Republic - ie when Egypt and Syria were a giant anti-zionist super state.

>Don't buy into the media brainwashing. Israel is occupying Syria at Golan Heights, and a stable Syria means a Syria that will try to take it's land back.

Do you know what the Golan is? The world's biggest gayest most bureaucratic apple farm co-administered by Assad and Israel, vid related. Assad is more interested in fighting his own people than Israel just like his father. Assad could have been the most popular islamic leader by opening a volunteer front for muslims to fight Israel but he always refused to do so due to backroom deals with Isn'treal. And even if Assad wanted to, as a Russian client state he isn't allowed to harm the one million precious Russian kikes in Israel that Putin is always praising.

Assad’s Baath party is a militarized US Democratic party based on minority grievance coalition, the idea of “progress”, and free stuff. The Sunni rebels are what Obama would call “bitter clingers.” Obama, as revealed in his farewell Atlantic interview, sees Sunnis as Arab Republicans – which is not entirely incorrect. Syrian Sunnis that are pro-regime such as syriagirl are value signalling that they are complex, successful, sophisticated cosmopolitans. A syria without Sunnis would be like the USA with no whites. The Democratic party needs white people even though they rather not, same with syrian Baath party. The Baath sunnis are sociopathic cuckservatives. They feel the same disdain for barrel-bombed sunni towns that Kevin Williamson feels for abandoned white mining towns with high suicide rates.

Sunnis are capable of ruling in a way that represents the majority and is magnanimous towards minorities. You can’t give perpetually aggrieved minority groups access to the levers of power without mass violence ensuing. When sunnis are a majority or even a large minority, they simply must rule for the good of all. The fact the most well known supporter of Assad (syriagirl) is a sunni just proves my point that sunnis engage in the realm of ideas as individuals unlike a god damned fearful herd led by obscurantists.

>Destabilization in the middle east is in Israel interests.

Only in regards to petty ethnic states like the commie kurds. Destabilization of tinpot regimes in favor of a pan-sunni political order, UAR on steroids is not. Destabilizing the British empire was in German interests but the state that gave birth to now occupies Germany.

We had a /pol/ post praising Assad itt and alhamdulillah one of the mods removed it. My reply is still up. /pol/ has also been promoting a fake shia imam named Tawhidi that is backed by Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Richard Spencer. Tawhidi demands deportation of muslims, shutting down all islamic schools, and has said "Palestine is jewish land."

We will not let this filth be spread here.

I don't agree with Hamza Yusuf on many things but he is a sheikh and has knowledge. This is his view on breathlessly blaming "Wahabbis."

And his views on Ibn Taymiyyah (rh)

>>20997

I for one think that these terrorists are nothing more than madmen, hiding behind religion as an excuse to justify them killing folks…and of course, every Muslim will be blamed for the actions of a few madmen. And then some young Muslim folks who were scorned by their peers then lash out at them and the cycle just continues. Like abused children who have grown big enough to do the same thing to someone else as if it would somehow balance the scales..it won't.

>>21008

I agree with you on that. These are psychotic people who would cause terror and kill innocents even if Islam never existed.

>>21008

>>21009

Muslims that bomb kids are madmen, k. What about christians that bomb kids and get parades and medals?

or politicians that kill 500,000 iraqi kids with starvation sanctions and live out the rest of their days in luxury and leisure?

>>21003

What's the background of that Tawhidi guy? What are the odds that he's some kind of "operative"? Or are these kinds of fakers just really common?

>>21013

He's been thoroughly exposed in the Australian islamic community and even the mainstream press. Someone is definitely paying him though.

Tawhidi said:

>If Jesus a.s created a bird, then Imagine what Imam Ali (a.s) could create?

>Imam Ali (a.s) could have created me the exact same way Allah Almighty did.

>If Imam Ali (a.s) wanted to make a grain of sand rise to the sky and do a better job than Allah Almighty's sun, he could.

>If my Marja was to tell me to not curse Umar, i would curse him and Umar together.

I think these type of terrorists are primarily looking for a justifiable way to commit suicide. Their lives are meaningless, they are driven by frustration and extremist interpretations allow them an escape, they roll the dice and hope to make it to paradise. But most certainly they will go somewhere else…

And their actions serve no useful function in terms of changing the West's economic or military policies, in fact their actions embolden the West and taint the image of Islam worldwide. What a waste.

>>20995

>yes while painful for actual muslims and triggering to shitlord basement dwellers this is all part of God's decree which has no flaws.

God decreed the West to blow up muslims? What are you trying to say…

>>21020

>God decreed the West to blow up muslims?

Of course. There are no flaws in the divine decree and God is not unjust.

Human beings ipso facto deserve absolutely nothing from God, not even a moment of sunlight or a halfbreath of clean air. Nevertheless God gives in abundant excess from sheer mercy and grace to mankind and the very second God takes anything away most people go nuts.

The wicked of Syria earned being "blown up" as a punishment and the righteous earned it as a trial and martyrdom. Death overtakes all whether from barrel bomb or AIDS. Whether from drone or drunk driver. Whether from landmine or drug overdose. Whether from sniper or emo suicide. Whether from starvation or big mac heart attack.

>>21021

>There are no flaws in the divine decree and God is not unjust.

Be that as it may it doesn't mean God decreed evil actions and immorality to take place; God is Good.

>Human beings ipso facto deserve absolutely nothing from God

If that were true they would not exist in the first place and giving them mercy would be unjust.

>>21022

>(3:140) If ye have received a blow, the (disbelieving) people have received a blow the like thereof.

Last year more than 30,000 Americans perished in opioid overdoses alone. There is no need for terror attacks because Allah balances the scales.

>Be that as it may it doesn't mean God decreed evil actions and immorality to take place;

>(4:79) Whatever of good befalleth thee (O man) it is from Allah, and whatever of ill befalleth thee it is from thyself. We have sent thee (Muhammad) as a messenger unto mankind and Allah is sufficient as Witness.

>God is good

This is what the christians say. No, exalted is He. God is not merely good, God is great. ALLAHU AKBAR.

>If that were true they would not exist in the first place and giving them mercy would be unjust.

No. You don't understand what mercy means, it means giving someone better than they deserve. Allah owes mankind nothing yet gives us everything, we owe Allah love, worship & obedience.

And giving mercy is never unjust, giving mercy is the highest form of justice that Allah, The Most Merciful is pleased with. This principle carries over to sharia too, examples from financial and criminal sector:

>(2:280) And if the debtor is in straitened circumstances, then let there be postponement to the time of ease; and that ye remit the debt as almsgiving would be better for you if ye did but know.

>(5:45) And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso relinquish this right it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.

>>21023

>Last year more than 30,000 Americans perished in opioid overdoses alone. There is no need for terror attacks because Allah balances the scales

Opiate abuse also kills thousands of muslims and their children. "The number of Afghans addicted to opium and other drugs has soared 60% since 2009 to as many as 1.6 million, or 5% of the population …" https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/02/08/afghanistan-opium-addiction-us-withdrawal/22851573/

Are you saying God compels some people to abuse drugs in order to balance some earthly kill ratio? I don't get it.

>There is no need for terror attacks because Allah balances the scales

There's no need for terror attacks because they are immoral and wicked, and God will judge everyone according to their deeds anyway in the afterlife.

>>God is good

>>This is what the christians say. No, exalted is He.

Christians are correct in saying that. Who can deny it? Also I used capital 'G' Good, because he is Good unlike anything else.

:^)

>>21024

>And giving mercy is never unjust, giving mercy is the highest form of justice that Allah,

justice says a man deserves what the Law prescribes, no more, no less.

mercy says a man deserves more than what the Law prescribes.

>>21002

>you should … Btw …

None of this matters if you ignore the topic of takfir. Since you ignored it entirely you probably don't know what it means so I'll tell you again clearly. It's when you declare a Muslim, for whatever reason, to not be a Muslim, ie to be an apostate. And as you know killing an apostate is allowed in Islam (in a way). All Islamic schools of thought say that you at least need a court to declare takfir, except wahhabism and usually salafis (and terrorists). They instead believe that anyone can do takfir, ie that the individual can point the finger and accuse a Muslim of being an apostate and then killing them. All the terrorists have this same ideology but still kill each other because of this being able to accuse others of apostasy. Takfir cannot be done by an individual, there must be a court system to allow this, and all other schools of thought agree, including the original 4 Sunni schools of thought, but not Al Wahhab or Ibn Taymiyya or Wahhabis.

HOWEVER

I understand that some people like to differentiate between terms such as salafis and wahhabis, and it seems many like to call themselves salafis. Meaning that no one likes to be called a wahhabi. Fortunately, Salafism is supposed to be about ijtihad so all they have to do is read the very simple common sense verse 4:93 (normally you would read with context, reading surrounding verses and reading properly, ijtihad). They and then can think about how we are 'allowed' to kill apostates. These two things must be reconciled so that one realizes that if you declare someone to be an apostate and are wrong (in killing them) then you will go to hell, and since killing apostates is suppose to be a last resort kind of thing, maybe you need an ulema or a caliphate and it's court… But for god's sake don't be a terrorist and think anyone can say any Muslim is an apostate and then kill them.

So if the Salafi governments of the Arab states explicitly say that takfir can't be done by an individual, that'd be great. Literally all that's needed as far as 'reform' goes

>>21026

>Opiate abuse also kills thousands of muslims and their children. "The number of Afghans addicted to opium and other drugs has soared 60% since 2009 to as many as 1.6 million, or 5% of the population …"

Druggies and drinkers are disobeying Allah and have the curse of the Prophet on their heads to boot. A "muslim" dying from a drug/alcohol overdose is like a "muslim" dying from choking on a ham sandwich.

>Are you saying God compels…. some earthly kill ratio? I don't get it.

God says that, not me. You don't have to get it, in fact, don't even worry about it.

>justice says a man deserves what the Law prescribes, no more, no less.

mercy says a man deserves more than what the Law prescribes.

Yes this is true, that doesn't mean mercy can ever be "unjust" as you said since unjust suggests a deficiency (of justice) rather than overabundance. Now this is unique to the Islamic context because in Islam the victim's family decides the punishment (within guidelines.) If a judge or jury decided to show a criminal mercy then that could be unjust to the victim's family. But if the family decide to show mercy then that is not unjust.

>>21027

Cool. You didn't comment on the balanced views of Sh. Hamza Yusuf, you ignore Sh. Yusuf Estes (who you copypaste whenever he agrees with you), and you were unable to come up with actual extracts from the shuyukh that you find reprehensible. Maybe if you spent less time praising the trinity on /christian/ you would have a kernal of knowledge. How many more times do you plan on embarrassing yourself before you admit you have no idea what you're talking about?

>>21019

>>21019

Kaffirs like Tawhidi are why Allah azza wa jal gave us takfir.

OP states these are revenge attacks. However the Islamic State would do these things regardless as they want a global caliphate. This whole revenge narrative is false and apologist.

>>21039

But there are written and vocal statements saying that they would stop if the airstrikes stopped ?

Frankly the knee jerk reaction people are starting to have concerning the bad Western FP in the Middle-East is just out of insecurity and not wanting blame at all.

Anyone with an ounce of integrity wouldn't call it false but partially true at the very least.

>>21039

They're not attacking switzerland, taiwan, dominican republic, and papua new guinea you little mendacious islamophobe. Also, when some kid calls himself isis, well i can call myself batman - it don't mean too much. Then the attack is capitalized on by them. Dylan Roof had south african and confederate flags, that doesnt mean he was a confederate afrikaner.

I even remember when isis said years ago they represent a fresh start and have no problem outside the regional enemies, then the bombings began again, then they upped their rhetoric. I guarantee you the people in ISIS would rather introduce their gold currency, sell oil, and live as muslims. Yes they would keep up brushfire conflicts with the shia militias — but the global rhetoric is because they're being bombed by global powers.

We do believe the planet will be muslim but this is going to take thousands of years, barring miracles.

There is a tendency to categorize ISIS as either the grand summation of Islam or mere role players. ISIS are sunnis fighting a war that started with starvation sanctions, then moved on to a bombing campaign that continues to this day then a brutal occupation followed by a puppet government backed by mercenary militias. They are not "better muslims" than any of the other millions of sunnis throughout history that practiced their religion, oftentimes giving their lives in the process. Neither are they deficient because Islam is applicable to peace and war. The evil things isis does are also done to them and we must criticize both.

Were the Carlists, Rexists, Ustasa, and IRA the purest forms of catholicism? Though those were certainly catholic movements I don't believe they necessarily were. Nor were they just roleplaying. The same with isis.

This board does not tolerate reductio ad ISIS, nor do we tolerate discussion of terra outside of highly regulated threads such as these. Some of you may be unaware but the jew Joshua Goldberg pretended to be an isis member here and is now in a criminal insane asylum because he was deemed unfit to stand trial. This board will not tolerate people that lionize or demonize isis - only levelheaded analysis. And as a mod i reserve the right to delete ANY post on this subject since I dont want the fbi subpoenaing ip#'s from brennan again.

CORBYN LINKS BRITISH WAR ON TERROR NEOIMPERIALISM TO TERRORISM

THEN SURGES IN POLLS

>>21036

What does any of that have to do with anything I said. Regarding the topic of takfir, do you agree with me or not?

Those other things I will respond to with time. I happen to have a life. Also I keep getting banned lol. The things you say here are 100% ad hominid personal attacks. It is not logical to accuse and insult with no basis, let alone islamic.

>>21039

>>21040

>>21041

Who fucking even cares about Europe. ISIS is killing innocent people for no reason and they need to be stopped. People need to learn more about Islam so they need to stop betting brainwashed into joining ISIS. Many are already sympathetic to their causes

>>21045

No one is banning you, liar. And we all have lives. You're the one who makes 50 posts at /christian/ all day praising the trinity and trashing islam as something you were just born into. You don't understand tawheed yet you want to pontificate about takfirtakfirtakfir ad nauseum. And if you were the slightest bit self-aware you would be too ashamed to give dawah, God knows if that was even your goal over there. I didn't have suhoor today and maghrib is still 3 hours away so you need to settle down or your lies about being banned will become self-fulfilling prophecy.

>>21046

This conversation has nothing to do with tawheed. Why do you think I have different ID every time? Of course I've been banned unless the banned was removed, nope, apparently the first post here was me thread sliding rofl >>20997

Why do you just like to argue for no reason? I've literally never brought up these other topics but you just seem to be itching to find anything you can about me to argue.

Why do you continue to avoid the issue of takfir? It is central to the issue of terrorism as I have explained many times already. If you like I can explain it again.

>>21047

Are you against Algeria the same way you are against the Isis? The FLN did the same tactics as ISIS, the only difference is they didn't film them. You are an apologist for Nation of Islam, Christian imperialism, the trinity, and what else? You're a deeply confused individual. FLN bombed french civilians too, FLN tortured french military too. Were FLN the bad guys?

The french killed a million of us, I guess we shoulda let them kill 2 million??? Go to hell please.

>>21050

Don't bother. The person you are replying to is a Catholic and here to stir up trouble.