/islam/ - 8ch Masjid

>>19795

>she

hahaha

no

>>19795

lol your thread got shoaed

I've met a Muslim crossdresser before, but that's just because he likes women's fashion. He has a wife and kids, and is otherwise pretty normal.

Outside of that I can't really say.

Salam aleykum wa rahmatullahou wa barakatou bro.

If you know anyone which is a tranny tell him to stop and repent, it is not accepted in Islam.

It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed men who imitate women and women who imitate men, and he said: “Throw them out of your houses.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (5885).

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the man who wears women’s clothing and the woman who wears men’s clothing. Narrated by Abu Dawood (4098) and classed as saheeh by al-Nawawi in al-Majmoo’ (4/469) and by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed masculinized women. Narrated by Abu Dawood (4099); classed as hasan by al-Nawawi in al-Majmoo’ (4/469) and as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

And about surgeries to change sex, Satan is quoted in the Qur'an saying:

'"[…]I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss."

[4:119]

>>19790

It depends on who you ask. We're not a hivemind collective.

>>19810

A transgender person is not a man who imitates a woman, nor a woman who imitates a man. Transgender is not mere cross dressing. It is a medical condition and no more requires our acceptance than any other. Influenza is not mentioned in Qur'an, but we're pretty much fine with treating it.

>>19814

God makes the choice of which body you're born with. As I quoted in the Qur'an, changing what Allah gave you is haram. A man cutting his penis and drilling a hole between his legs and dressing as a woman IS imitating a woman, and the prophet ordered to throw them out.

I'm sure you don't seriously believe that a transgender person is not a man who imitates a woman. I'm sure you perfectly know that what transgenders are doing is haram, you just don't want to accept it. Whatever.

>>19818

>God makes the choice of which body you're born with.

Yes, and sometimes Allah chooses to put you in the wrong body in order to test you and others around you. Who are you to question Allah's will?

>>19818

You'll also note that eunuchs, both natural and chosen, are perfectly acceptable in Islam. A transgender person can easily be considered a natural eunuch, unwilling or incapable of reproduction.

Bukhari, Authentic Traditions, Book LXII (Marriage), Chapter 2:

The Statement of the Prophet, peace be upon him: "Whoever is able to perform coitus should get married, for it helps him lower his gaze and use his private parts in the best way." And should he get married who does not have a desire for conjugal intercourse?

(3) Narrated 'Alqama: […] I heard [Abdullah] saying [to Uthman]: […] The Prophet, peace be upon him, once said to us: "O young men! Whoever among you is able to perform coitus, he should get married, and whoever is not able, should abstain, because it will unnerve him."

The Arabic of the last sentence is: يا مَعْشَرَ الشَّبابِ مَن اسْتَطاعَ مِنْكُم الباءَةَ فَلْيَتَزَوَّجْ، وَمَنْ لَمْ يَستَطِيع فَعَلَيْهِ بالصَّوْم، فإنَّهُ لَهُ وِجاءٌ

Bukhari, Authentic Traditions, Book LXII (Marriage), Chapter 3:

Whoever is not able to perform coitus should abstain.

(4) Narrated Abdullah: We were with the Prophet, peace be upon him, as young men and we did not feel any passion. And the Messenger of God, peace be upon him, said to us: "O young men! Whoever among you is able to perform coitus, he should get married, and whoever is not able, should abstain, because it will unnerve him."

Mental illness is a sensitive subject

>>19795

>she

did you just assume his gender?

It should also be noted that we have had this discussion many times and the result is always the same:

1] Insults get thrown around.

2] Nobody changes their mind.

3] The thread gets locked.

There will never be resolution to this issue on this tiny little board of 20 people. So I will answer from my own experience and my own opinion.

Do I accept transgender as a treatable illness?

Yes I do. It is treated with hormone therapy and possible surgery.

Is transgenderism haram?

I do not know. I see it as an illness and, as such, it probably isn't haram. Illnesses are not sins, but how we treat people with illnesses can be sinful. If it is a mental illness, then we are to be compassionate, not scornful.

What about homosexuality?

Transgender people are not automatically homosexual, so it has nothing to do with the question at hand.

I do not pretend to understand it and I do not presume to understand what they are going through. I prefer to err on the side of compassion.

>>19828

Back in the Prophet's day, they didn't have a word for "natural eunuchs", but did recognize that there were people who had a natural aversion to their own sex. It's something that has been recorded since the days of ancient Greece and early Arabs had that same knowledge. The point of the hadith I mentioned we to show that Muhammad(pbuh) himself chose compassion over derision.

>They should be treated with medical help

On that, we agree. I'm not seeing anyone encouraging anyone to mutilate themselves. I no more encourage that then I encourage tattoos or ear piercing.

>>19819

You can not be born in the wrong body. It is god who gives you your body, you can't throw it away and say "You gave me the wrong body! I'll use science to change it". God gave you transsexual problems in your mind and THIS is tribulation, he wants to test whether you will be a tranny or not. And being a tranny is haram. It's like homosexuals. Did they choose to be homosexuals ? No. But god made them homosexuals to test them if they will act homosexuals or not, and homosexual sex is punished by death sentence in Islam. That's the same thing for trannies. God gives them tranny envies. Will they act ? If they don't, they passed the tribulation. If they act trannies, they do haram. That's it, don't make more complicated than that. Allah's will is that you're born male, you can't change it to become female because god chose for you to be male. Who are you to question Allah's will, to defy him using surgeries and science to later become an abomination ? Who are you to defigure his creation ?

>>19821

An eunuch is not a female. It is just a castrated male. Eunuch is simply not transgender. And the two hadith which you cited do not contradict what I said.

Also, you said "You'll also note that eunuchs, both natural and chosen, are perfectly acceptable in Islam."

No, they aren't. Voluntarily castrating yourself is prohibited in Islam.

‘Abdullah ibn Mas‘ood said: We were on a campaign with the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and we had no women with us. We said: Why don’t we get ourselves castrated? But he forbade us to do that.

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (4787) and Muslim (1404).

According to the hadeeth of Sa‘d ibn Abi Waqqaas: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) forbade ‘Uthmaan ibn Maz’oon to be celibate. If he had given him permission, we would have gotten ourselves castrated.

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (4786) and Muslim (1402).

And to prove to you that eunuchs aren't transgenders:

Ibn al-‘Arabi al-Maaliki (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

Ashhab said: Maalik was asked: Can a woman take off her head cover in front of a eunuch? Is he one of those who “lack vigour”? He said: Yes, if he is her slave or the slave of someone else. But in the case of one who is free, then no.

When asked if a female can show her adornments in front of an Eunuch, he said "Yes" because they are refered in the Qur'an as "old MALE servants who lack vigor"

"And tell the believing women […] to not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, […] or those MALE attendants having no physical desire" 24:31

>>19830

I'm not insulting you or mocking you or anything. I'm just trying to get you to the straight path and I'm trying to explain you that this is bad.

>>19841

>You can not be born in the wrong body.

So you say.

>An eunuch is not a female. It is just a castrated male.

According to hadith, there are two distinct kinds of "eunuch" - natural and unnatural. A castrated male is an unnatural eunuch.

>>19842

That's kind of you, but I'm securely on the straight path. Just because I show no derision for others does not mean I'm on the wrong path. Allah's mercy and compassion far outweighs His wrath. Thus, I choose compassion over derision.

>>19845

"According to hadith, there are two distinct kinds of "eunuch" - natural and unnatural. A castrated male is an unnatural eunuch."

Hell no. The hadith did not say anything about "natural or unnatural". Any form of castration is prohibited. You invented it. There's nothing written in the hadith about "natural" or "unnatural" eunuchs, it's just in your head.

>>19870

Actually, I posted it up here in this thread. I didn't invent it. You might want to pay more attention.

>>19873

You're talking about

"

Bukhari, Authentic Traditions, Book LXII (Marriage), Chapter 2:

The Statement of the Prophet, peace be upon him: "Whoever is able to perform coitus should get married, for it helps him lower his gaze and use his private parts in the best way." "

This hadith simply says that those who have the ability to get married should get married. It says nothing about transsexuals. Another exemple in another hadith:

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O young men, whoever among you can afford it, let him get married, for it helps him to lower his gaze and protect his chastity. And whoever cannot do that, let him fast, for it will be a protection for him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 9/92; Muslim, 1400).

You simply misunderstood it.

And in the other hadith you cited:

"Bukhari, Authentic Traditions, Book LXII (Marriage), Chapter 3:

Whoever is not able to perform coitus should abstain.

(4) Narrated Abdullah: We were with the Prophet, peace be upon him, as young men and we did not feel any passion. And the Messenger of God, peace be upon him, said to us: "O young men! Whoever among you is able to perform coitus, he should get married, and whoever is not able, should abstain, because it will unnerve him.""

Again, same thing, you misunderstood, you used mental gymnastics to try to bring transsexualism in Islam. There is nothing about what you call "natural" eunuch and the hadith you gave me and the misunderstanding you had with it can be cleared with this verse of the Qur'an:

"And those who cannot marry should practice restrain (or abstinence) till Allah enriches them out of His bounty." (24:33)

When the prophet (pbuh) says "Whoever is not able to perform coitus" he doesn't mean "natural eunuch" from where the hell did you get that ? He just means those who can't marry, those who are in the impossibility because of not having enough money or any other reason.

Now, my final response to you, to try to tell you the LAST time that transsexualism is haram:

https://islamqa.info/en/138451

https://islamqa.info/en/34553

"the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade hermaphrodites to enter upon women, if they pay attention to women and their charms, and he ordered that they be banned from living among people so as to guard against their evil.

Imam al-Bukhaari included this hadeeth in two chapters: (1) under the heading: “It is forbidden for men who resemble women to enter upon women” and (2) under the heading: “Expelling men who resemble women from people’s houses.”

Ibn Hajar said: What we learn from this is that women should observe hijab before those hermaphrodites who pay attention to women's charms, and that they should be banned from living among people, as a means to deter them. And it seems that doing this is obligatory.

Fourthly: According to specialist doctors, this kind of operation is not indicated by any kind of sound medical evidence, and it is no more than the matter of personal whims and desires.

And there is other evidence which indicates that it is haraam. For more information, please see the book Ahkaam al-Jaraahah al-Tibbiyyah, p. 199 "

Now stop. I will stop answering because I know you know it's haram and you don't want to accept it.

>>19883

>When the prophet (pbuh) says "Whoever is not able to perform coitus"

>He just means those who can't marry

co·i·tus : sexual intercourse

A wall of text doesn't make you right.

>>19819

The answer to God's test isn't to wear a disguise and become the gender you 'desire' to be, the answer is to become the gender your body is born as.

Becoming female is to give in to a delusion/illusion and live incorrectly. Like a 2 foot midget pretending to be 6feet tall by wearing giant stilts all the time….that's not reality or truth.

A MtF who properly passes the test would transmission "back" to male. The alternative is impossible, the male body can't become female by wearing a disguise or self-mutilation. You see?

But the mind can learn to adapt to objectivity , or strive to.

Gender disorder and homosexuality are merely thought. 'Transitioning' or committing sodomy is haram, they are actions.

>>19884

You are ignoring the hadith I gave you and the verse of the Qur'an I gave you. Coitus is synonym of marriage. marriage = ability to perform coitus.

"And those who cannot marry should practice restrain (or abstinence) till Allah enriches them out of His bounty." (24:33)

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O young men, whoever among you can afford it, let him get married, for it helps him to lower his gaze and protect his chastity. And whoever cannot do that, let him fast, for it will be a protection for him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 9/92; Muslim, 1400).

>>19888

Exactly.

>>19889

I brought my proof. You brought yours.

You will never change my mind.

I will never change your mind.

Just like I said in : >>19830

There is no point to this discussion and I will not continue it.

>>19890

“(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination”[al-Nisa’ 4:59]

“So ask the people of the Reminder if you do not know”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:43]

I gave you clear hadiths and I gave you answers of Islamic experts, all confirmed that trannyism is haram.. You gave me mental gymnastics and distorded reasoning. I will not change my mind, yes, but I know God is on my side and I know you perfectly know this is haram. I warned you. Think deeply about it. Maybe one day you will change.

>>19892

>I know God is on my side

Funny … so do I.

>>19893

That's what YOU say, not the hadiths and verses I gave you.

I'll fuck a goat so I don't see how fucking a tranny is any worse.

>>19915

Strange … I was just thinking the same about you.

>>19916

Gross.

>>19790

trannyism is not allowed

LGBT eternally BTFO

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/number-50-fall-2016

I just saw a video a few days ago, a muslim girl in england was reading a hadith.

The hadith said that men should not dress as women, and that women should not dress as men, and it repeated this idea a few times in different ways.

I guess this would make trannyism very hard, right?

I don't believe cross dressing is permitted in Islam.

Personally, I don't really understand trannyism and find it kinda creepy.

Though I don't believe in people being harrassed for what they are, and their burdens being exacerbated by others.

>>20084

This is true. Cross dressing is not permitted. But there is a difference between transgender and transvestite.

We know that body dysmorphic disorder is a very real medical condition. It's the same thing that causes a person who has had a leg amputated to still feel pain in the toes of a foot that is no longer there. It's also what causes an otherwise normal looking person to perceive themselves as obese, leading to anorexia or other eating disorders and having unnecessary surgeries.

BDD can be treated with therapy and medications. Why should people be denied medication simply because we don't understand their disease?

>>20086

>>20084

They should be helped and not brainwashed to think it is normal. I am sure there are ways to develop therapies to cure 'transgenderism' as they call it just like there could be for homosexuality. However the political climate in western civilisation would not allow this obviously. Perhaps later, when there will be an Islamic caliphate with Shari'a law punishing homosexual acts and crossdressing, there will be psychologists who will find a way to cure those before they commit any haram acts.

>>20087

Muslims have been treating mental disorders with compassion for 1400 years, even opening the first psychiatric hospital in Baghdad in the early 700s.

It saddens me to see that today's Muslims want to treat mental health issues with scorn, derision, and hatred.

>>20088

I don't think most of us here want to execute people with gender dysphoria, but we want to treat them and prevent them from modifying their genitals.

"Tranny" is a slur, I ask that you please don't use it unless you're trans yourself (it's sorta like how black people can use the N word)

>>20097

No it's not. Blacks have been enslaved for centuries so I get not using the N word.

>>20097

I always think of a car engine when I hear the word "tranny". Maybe it's because I'm older and we never used the word "tranny" as a slur against trans people. We always called 'em "Glendas" (an Ed Wood reference) or "Ladyboys", though neither of which were really ever slurs. The condition was just not something we thought about much. My generation see trans people as needing help and have no derision for them.

That's something new, something millennial.

>>20097

Fuck off, tranny sympathising cunt.

>>20097

>it's sorta like how black people can use the N word

But I say the n word, who cares?

>>20239

he/she/it/they/xier are/is actually a tranny

>>20256

A lot of black people care. It's very offensive to them.

Considering this board is unironically considered a FUCKING SAFE SPACE, I bet the entire mod teamis made up of tranny feminist shitstains.

>>20272

You would be wrong and have lost your bet. Pay up.

>>20272

Replace the word "tranny" with "lelftist" and you'll perfectly describe the mods of r/Socialism

>>20282

Hang out on r/Socialism a lot, do ya?

>>20283

Yeah, that subreddit really intrigues me

>>19790

No it's gay, where did you hear that trannies are accepted? Just like homosexuals, trannies are what we call Sexual Deviants, which are all mental illnesses. That also includes people with weird fetishes, like people who get aroused by looking at feet

>>20300

Hey fuck off feet are great

(dubs checked)