No.978635
MANGA IS CONQUERING THE WORLD
No.978639
>>978635
This explains why DC has been pushing hard in the GN market recently.
I think we're finally in the market shift.
No.978643
>>978639
>I think we're finally in the market shift.
It's about fucking time. Desperately holding onto floppies is just stupid, and this should have happened a long time ago.
Many modern comics would be better off as GNs rather than splitting them into 20 to 30 page issues. It is especially bad with books that use decompressed storytelling. Oftentimes, there is just not enough content there to make a single issue into a satisfying read.
No.978644
>>978635
>DC surpassing marvel
Has this happened before?
No.978648
>>978644
After Bendis is done fucking up DC, it will go back to normal.
No.978653
>>978644
DC leads in the GN market because they have books like The Watchmen, DKR, TJK, and Year One, which are always on the best seller lists.
No.978655
Manga has pretty girls, cute lesbians and lots of action.
Amecomi has ugly girls, ugly lesbians and faggots, and badly drawn action.
No.978661
>>978655
*is it any wonder manga is doing better?
No.978665
>>978648
>After Bendis is done fucking up DC, it will go back to normal.
Knowing DC. They will reboot Rorschach to be anti-alt-right parody that will backfire. Bendis will Fuck up superman so badly he will revert back to new 52 superman.
No.978667
>>978653
Does Marvel even have well know graphic novels besides punisher max and infinity wars?
No.978668
>>978665
Making watchmen canon in the DC universe is probably why Rorschach now has a black son. DC clearly wants Rorschach in the DC universe.
No.978669
>>978665
Rorschach was always a conservative stawman that backfired. Alan Moore still confused on why people loved rorshach.
No.978670
I'm just waiting for Gwenpool's 550 pages GN edition.
>>978665
>They will reboot Rorschach to be anti-alt-right parody
They can't be THAT stupid can they? The guy crippled people at bars for lying to him but he turned a blind eye to The Comedian rape attempt because he shared right wing politics.
>>978668
>Making watchmen canon in the DC universe is probably why Rorschach now has a black son.
>Rorschach now has a black son.
>Rorschach not being a wizard
Oh god they will reboot him anti-alt-right aren't they.
No.978671
>>978670
To be fair. Black Rorshach might be the only way to have a canon anti-transgender and pro trump character nowadays.
No.978672
>>978670
Doomsday hasn’t confirm the black rorshach was Walter son. But he clearly young enough to be his son. The Black Rorshach young and inexperienced. But I strongly suspected he is Rorshach son though. Walter was never racist. In fact he hatred Nazis as much as communists.
No.978673
>>978672
I don't think it would be his son that would be pushing it for a guy like Walter who was very anti-social and uncomfortable around women. I feel it may just possibly be a no-name who picked up the mantle after the whole 'alien squid' thing from what we've seen it looks like the incident heavily traumatized him.
>>978669
>Why people loved Rorshach
From what I mostly see it's like Ghost from COD, alot of people love him because they thought he looked cool. I could be wrong.
No.978675
File: 7bbb93a259dae99⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 152.62 KB, 510x1325, 102:265, 75a6c0d88d418bd8258104c0da….jpg)
>>978669
>Alan Moore still confused on why people loved Rorshach.
I didn't love Rorschach until the very end, his character flaws were very apparent to me which let me enjoy him as well written but not to like him.
But when he stood his place for truth rather than peace, I knew he was an anon, and ironically Moore captured pretty well the best and worst of a right wing person, as Veidt did for the left wing.
But regardless of More's ability as a writer, lefties are cursed to write Right Wing characters as the far more sympathetic/intelligent/sensible ones. Don't know why.
>>978671
>To be fair. Black Rorshach might be the only way to have a canon anti-transgender and pro trump character nowadays.
Don't pull my leg. Is this just a theory or Doomsday Cock already did it? Is he a black Blumpf supporter?
>>978672
>But I strongly suspected he is Rorshach son though. Walter was never racist. In fact he hatred Nazis as much as communists.
I never implied Walter was racist, I said I don't think he ever got his dick wet, guy was kind of a freak to women.
No.978677
>>978673
>>978675
I have a feeling DC trying to turn Rorshach into a legacy character in Doomsday.
No.978678
>>978675
>But when he stood his place for truth rather than peace, I knew he was an anon
>I knew he was an anon
>an anon
Kill yourself, newfag, and save yourself from future embarrassment.
No.978679
>>978678
Just report and ignore the thread
No.978680
Well, how long does it take to have a comic in time to sell?
They make comics of 22 pages to sell once a month and to have some in advance too, their deadlines are insanely short for both artist and writers which ends up in shitty art and asswriting, especially if they're working in several comics at a time.
The question here is. Would this give them more time or crunch them even more?
Because I don't wanna pay three times the price, wait twice as much and receive half the quality for double the pages.
>>978677
wow, almost half Rorschach gimmicks in one page. Bravo.
>>978678
So I assume you would like to live in a peace made out of lies rather than the kek at the people crying in panic as the horizon melts down in a nuclear flash and brings this whole shitshow to an end?
No.978681
>>978670
>>978670
>Oh god they will reboot him anti-alt-right aren't they.
Maybe. If it not Rorshach black son. They made him Ben Carson the superhero.
No.978685
>>978680
You referred to a fucking comic book character as an "anon". As if being an anon is an identity.
>kek
Go back to your containment board, squeaker.
No.978687
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>978677
>>978681
Please tell there a shhheeeeeittt Rorshach parody.
No.978690
>>978681
I didn't mind that whatsoever, actually. It's an efficient way to make sure people know he's not the same fucking dude. Unless it's actually Rorschach who grafted a nigger hand on him to bamboozle people
No.978691
>>978639
>more male
Oh no no no. That's not the narrative at all.
>>978643
I think floppies are good, but they need to make them either longer or more self contained.
I don't feel like getting 4-6 issues for a single arc, so either condense the story down, increase page number per issue (never ever) or release them in GN format from the beginning.
No.978692
>>978635
You're only just figuring this out? One Piece is the biggest comic in the world.
No.978708
>>978692
Luffy is pretty great, jackass set off to sea without knowing how to navigate and a 100% chance of drowning should he have fallen in due to his devilfruit.
No.978709
>>978691
>That's not the narrative at all.
On the contrary, it confirms it. While the comic shop crowd hasn't changed, the GN market is growing and becoming more diverse (see that fact about 1 in 3 GN buyers being female).
It gives light on the a conflict within comics today. The old guard are becoming obsolete as the Big Two see a huge market ripe for the taking.
I can't say this is a surprising change since /co/ has been prophesying it for ages, but it's going to be rough for people who didn't find a spider-hole to weather it.
>>978692
But these are US numbers, meaning that we finally have concrete proof to our belief that manga is trouncing the big publishers.
No.978711
>>978635
>even in America, the Big 2 can't beat the Nipponese picturebook industry
Reminder that single volumes of low-tier shounen jump crap, not even their best and most well-liked series, tend to sell more volumes than damned near everything Marvel and DC put out in an entire year… and this is for books that are effectively just collected volumes of comics they already read in the weekly compilation magazines they put out, meaning they have already sold millions of copies before the collected volumes ever release.
No.978713
>>978680
>Would this give them more time or crunch them even more?
It won't change anything. The Big Two will still keep churning out poor product to soak up the Direct Market dollars and then collect it to rake in the real dough. Meanwhile, they'll create imprints to target specific demographics, like DC is doing with INK and ZOOM.
I should note that none of the alternative publishers have the Big Two's insane deadlines. They release their comics in groups which is not only easier to collect, but also gives the talent time to recover and keep up quality standards.
No.978717
>tonnes of variety
>most things creator driven. Not so many cooks in the kitchen
>minimal shoehorned political statements. Focus on entertaining the audience, rather than preaching at them.
>cheap compilations sold in convenience stores, where new works can get their chance, maybe hit it big, recieve an anime and get exported to the rest of the world.
Yeah, I wonder why people like manga.
No.978723
>>978708
One piece is will always be one of my favorites and a forever classic. I named my cats after the characters.
>>978709
Weren't Jap comics always outselling US comics since the 2000s. A lot of American animu comics were published during the early 00s to cash in. I bought all of these in hopes more Americans would publish more manga. They're great btw.
No.978729
>>978681
So they didn't make him the psychologist from the prison who Rorschach broke? because that would be a fitting idea.
No.978732
>>978729
Nope. He's just some random nigger who was at ground-zero of Veidt's Squidbomb whose family died. That's it. Currently, he tried giving Batman Kovac's journal and he locked him in Arkham for it.
No.978733
>>978732
You mean he isn't even Bernie?
>who was at ground-zero of Veidt's Squidbomb whose family died.
Squidbomb? Rorschach's dead? Wait… How does Doomsday Cock works again?
No.978740
>>978733
>How does Doomsday Cock works again
Everyone finds out about Veidt being behind the Squid via Rorshach's journal and he becomes a fugitive. The world is on the brink of nuclear war (but uses talking points from the current year, like PRESIDENT IS PLAYING GOLF FUCK DRUMPF jokes and Russia invading Poland despite the USSR still being active), and Veidt enlists NiggerSchach and blackmails a husband-and-wife criminal duo (by threatening their baby) to help him find Dr. Manhattan so he can fix things. They escape into the DC Universe before New York gets nuked.
If you wanna read this shit for yourself, look over here:
Issue 1: https://boards.fireden.net/co/thread/96974291/
Issue 2: https://boards.fireden.net/co/thread/97726700/
Issue 3: https://boards.fireden.net/co/thread/98271495/
No.978744
>>978740
Welp, that doesn't even begin to make sense, not to mention Veidt is completely out of character just from that description alone.
No.978753
>>978744
It was written by Geoff Johns. That's to be expected.
No.978756
>>978753
>Pic 3
Is he a fucking manchild?
No.978788
>>978667
They also have Daredevil collections if you count them as GN's. Marvel has very few evergreen trades compared to DC. Nextwave kind of did it's own thing, being very loosely referenced Marvel's continuity and was self contained, kind of how some of DC's GN were released..
>>978713
Many indies also rely on trade sales. Rat Queens floppies sell like shit, but trades are usually in top 5 when they release.
>>978692
Eh, Luffy is too stupid for my tastes. Best example of that is him repetitively jumping into water in situations when he could just use his powers to fish people out, or anchor himself on the surface. Granted, I only read initial chapters of the manga and watched a few films, so he might be smarter later on.
No.978789
>>978788
>>978643
I have a feeling DC going to drop single issues before marvel. Earth one testing the waters.
No.978791
>>978709
>While the comic shop crowd hasn't changed, the GN market is growing and becoming more diverse (see that fact about 1 in 3 GN buyers being female).
Which means 2 in 3 GN buyers are male. Thus, still more male. Which isn't the narrative.
No.978794
>Yurop
>Manga corner in every bookstore and most larger kiosk
>Need to go to a comic book store for american comics other than donald duck stuff
It conquered the rest of the world a long time ago.
No.978798
>>978643
>>978691
On the topic of self contained issues, a publisher in Australia has been releasing self contained Phantom comics (cheap paper, black & white printing expect on colored cover, mostly 32-36 pages long but some collections up to a 100, including translations of euro Phantom comics, newspaper collections, older reprints, etc). They have been doing this for decades, and apparently sell 10 times as much compared to DC/Marvel top sellers in that region.
It's annoying seeing this strategy and think why can't other companies try the same? Or even try to replicate things like France's Tintin/Spirou magazine structure of having different stories from different artists and then republishing those loose b&w chapters in colour volumes. I was hoping that Brandom Graham/Image's ISLAND anthology comic series would go for that approach but it's comic quality (some with continuity) and page count when down fast.
I think a lot of publishers don't seem to understand that long form continuity really does fuck over comics (and other mediums), going back to self contained with a mostly "loose" continuity would be a better option. Going back to Tintin, you can pick up any volume and get a pretty decent story without reading the previous volume.
No.978799
Thank goodness. Hopefully the big two will realize that sucking shit through a straw isn't a good business strategy when there's competition around.
>>978717
Don't forget the massive difference in overall technical skill. Even though One Punch Man and Mob Psycho 100 get tons of shit (and rightly so) for being drawn by a bad artist, they're still infinitely more look-atable than squirrel girl.
No.978805
>>978690
>I don't mind that whatsover
Because you're not white.
No.978825
>>978788
>Many indies also rely on trade sales.
>implying that isn't also the case for the Big Two
Reprints are pure profit my man. Squirrel Girl also sells like ass, but the trades keep her alive.
>>978798
>I was hoping that Brandon Graham/Image's ISLAND anthology comic series would go for that approach but it's comic quality (some with continuity) and page count when down fast.
That was the same way with DARKHORSE PRESENTS. While I enjoyed comics like Finder and Concrete, the other stuff was luke warm at best.
I think to have an anthology work in the west, all of the stories within it need to unite under a common theme, like adventure or mystery. That way readers aren't forced into genres they didn't pay for.
>I think a lot of publishers don't seem to understand that long form continuity really does fuck over comics (and other mediums), going back to self contained with a mostly "loose" continuity would be a better option.
That's been apparent since BTAS hit, but the Big Two are married to the concept of "faux continuity" since the illusion of progression keeps fans hooked.
No.978826
>>978805
If your biggest concern about Doomsday Clock is the nigger Rorschach, you have serious problems.
No.978830
>>978825
>trades keep squirrel girl alive
Seriously, you must be able to sell anything as a GN.
No.978833
>>978799
>Even though One Punch Man and Mob Psycho 100 get tons of shit (and rightly so) for being drawn by a bad artist
Those are the webcomic versions, the bad art is part of the charm, all the weight is carried by ONE's writing
No.978851
>>978798
>I think a lot of publishers don't seem to understand that long form continuity really does fuck over comics (and other mediums), going back to self contained with a mostly "loose" continuity would be a better option.
I find it ironic that a lot of /co/ apparently hates long form continuity in comics yet will rage whenever DC/Marvel play fast and loose with established timelines because "not muh". You can't have both.
No.978856
>>978794
I have literally never been to a comic book store in my life. All comics I've read, I've bought, or pirated online. I think this is the problem.
No.978857
>>978851
As said by Julius Schwartz, 'Continuity means Superman is always from Krypton'
No.978861
>>978830
>>978825
Skullkickers was initially a commercial failure, but it started making money eventually. Mainly because floppies did not have to be printed, and over time costs became limited to the storage of already printed trades.
http://archive.is/38Fhc
As far as experimentation goes, Headlopper seems to be doing alright. Book releases ever three months, and each volume is about 50 pages long.
>>978825
>Dark Horse Presents
I still miss it. They should just make it as thick as possible, black and white, and printed on the low quality paper. Colored pages and better paper should be reserved for trades or floppies of individual books.
>>978799
One's might not have the skill, but his art does have some interesting ideas and is a good visual storyteller.
>skill
It's generally true, especially when it comes to character design. However, many mangakas cut corners, especially when it comes to backgrounds. Some people drool over Asano's detailed backgrounds in Goodnight Punpun, but in the end they are just heavily processed photos. Murata is doing great job drawing characters in OPM, but he occasionally traces 3D models when drawing backgrounds.
>>978856
Comic book stores are not a very good idea at this point. They sell a very niche and specialized product to a shrinking audience. There is a reason why so many of them close and ones that thrive also sell more things than comics.
No.978867
Viz licenses and translates stuff already put through the gauntlet of serialization in its home country, and has been doing it for some 30 years. It'd be surprising if they didn't have a sizable piece of the market by now.
Ironically, their initial point of entry was the direct market. Back when flipped manga and questionable localization was in vogue.
>>978861
>Comic book stores are not a very good idea at this point. They sell a very niche and specialized product to a shrinking audience
There's no real alternative for them, sadly.
>They should just make it as thick as possible, black and white, and printed on the low quality paper.
They'd have to raise the price and publish it bi-monthly or quarterly to compensate.
No.978871
>>978867
>There's no real alternative for them
Book stores? The magazine aisle?
No.978874
I'm not familiar with the business practices of Manga/Nipland, what's the likelihood of a monopoly like the Big Two/Diamond happening and sending us back to square one of the Comic Death Spiral? I don't want to celebrate if all we're doing is exchanging American kikery for Japanese kikery.
No.978898
>>978655
This. I, for one, welcome our new manga overlords.
No.978917
>>978871
Bookstores are dying out in the States at least. The last time I saw a comic in a magazine aisle it was an Archie comic.
No.978929
The manga model just shits on everything Marvel and DC do.
Manga
>Want generic fantashit? Just grab any of these mangas that just have a defined start and end
>Want sci-fi? No problem, you have plenty to choose from
>You also have plenty of generic love stories to choose from, for boys and girls, and with pretty much every subflavour you can think of.
>You also have a plentiful market of manga for adults
>Americomics
>Boy I sure do hope you love Avengers!
No.978932
>>978871
>The magazine aisle?
Publishers have to pay stores and newsstands to get preferential placement, and money has to be set aside for returns. Compared to the direct market (where stores shoulder the risk of ordering nonreturnable comics), it'd be a waste of money since competitive pricing would be impossible and you certainly wouldn't get a selection as wide as that of an LCS. There's a reason why DC and Marvel moved away from that market in the first place.
>Bookstore?
Aside from bookstores already being threatened by ebooks and Amazon, original graphic novels are iffy because things like production time, page rates, royalties, and creative teams have to be taken into account. Books still need to hit certain sales thresholds to be profitable, which would be harder to do if publishers can't gauge interest and generate buzz with monthly serialization.
>>978929
>Just grab any of these mangas that just have a defined start and end
Few manga have the luxury of what you'd call a defined ending. Either mangaka stumble onto a hit and are encouraged to spin their wheels, or they get prior notice to end their shit and make way for someone else.
>All American comics are superhero comics
No.978934
>>978932
>Few manga have the luxury of what you'd call a defined ending.
If you mean having a good and consistent ending, yeah, there are a shitload of mango that have shitty endings…but so is multiple forms of media. And to have an ending, even a shitty one, is better than not having one, and just a eternity of overusing the same thing over and over again.
>All American comics are superhero comics
No, but it takes a notable part of the market, and it influenced the comic culture too much, so its not only the Big Two the problem.
No.978936
>>978874
>what's the likelihood of a monopoly like the Big Two/Diamond happening and sending us back to square one of the Comic Death Spiral?
Unlikely. Manga has a completely different business model.
No.978940
>>978867
>Ironically, their initial point of entry was the direct market. Back when flipped manga and questionable localization was in vogue.
I actually have a few of those comics. Viz was publishing a lot of them until they realized that TPBs were better, though we lost we lost stuff like Misato's Fan Service Center in the move.
No.978941
>>978851
Just because you play it loose doesn't mean you can forgo consistency.
No.978951
>>978851
>/co/ is one person
>>978936
Mind explaining some more? Pic unrelated
No.978956
>>978951
Well, with DC and Marvel, all work is considered "work for hire". You get paid a page rate and the company provides editors, inkers, letterers, colorists, supplies etc. What you create is owned by the company and they're free to use it as they see fit, including firing you and hiring someone else to write your creations. There might be royalties involved, but it won't be much and won't extend much farther than the printed work.
In Japan, things are slightly different. When you get picked up by a publisher, you're treated like a sub-contractor. You're paid a page rate, but you hire your own assistants to ink, tone, draw in backgrounds, etc. and cover your own supply costs. The publisher will provide an editor to oversee the series and offer guidance. The publisher gets the lion's share of sales through publishing it, but the creator gets a royalty for every collected work sold, plus royalties for merchandise No royalties for anime or movies, though, but they're given some amount of money for it..
It's the royalties portion that's the major difference between east and west. It's why the creator of One Piece is a multimillionaire and why the creator of Rocket Raccoon is dirt poor and rotting in a nursing home.
No.978958
>>978874
It's easier to avoid japanese kikery as long as you don't fall for the shallow books or buy crappy merch. It's such a much more independent sort of market that you can find a lot more variety in what you wanna read. What you have to worry about is american companies deciding they wanna act as the publishing middle men for manga. Then you get shit like the Maid Dragon patriarchy dub.
No.978959
>>978861
>but in the end they are just heavily processed photos.
>take the photos himself
>processes them and draws over them to give them a rougher, manga feeling
I'm okay with this. Backrounds are long and tedious and it's not like he doing some Manhwa shit to get out of it.
No.978961
>>978958
> Then you get shit like the Maid Dragon patriarchy dub.
…what ?
No.978964
>>978962
That sounds like a joke at the expense of puritan fags who think women dress like whores.
No.978966
>Let creators make their own stories, rather than just churning the wheel for a handful of characters that you can never hope to read all the issues of
>Sell whole volumes rather than shitty $3-5 issues
>The artists are actually good, promotion of unique artstyles
>Bad art is made up for with interesting stories
>Constantly promote new manga with magazines
>Tons of cheap merch, including $20 figurines, but at the same time $100+ merch to suck more out of autists
>Print on cheap paper and don't bother with coloring to ensure a low price point
Only a moron would wonder how manga is so much more successful than American comics. The Japs have essentially perfected the corporate wheel of churning out manga. There's the problem of money becoming too much of a factor to the point where writers have to change what they write and essentially write forever. Dragon Ball's a good example of this; the first arc was a single story but the corpse kept getting led further on, even though the creator kept wanting to stop. Editors butted in to make worse storylines and caused the power cycles in the Cell Saga when two androids that could become more powerful from the overuse of ki blasts would have been much better than what we got, regardless of if their designs weren't aesthetically attractive. But this problem is mainly to keep the lowest common denominator fans happy and buying shit, so at least it's not as unproductive as the Big Two's insistence on making new gimmicks that'll only get people to buy the first copy of a shit comic then drop it.
No.978971
>>978964
Funimation's staff of SJW fuckwits is well known. They blatantly changed the script to force in their ideology, same as when they forced in a GamerGate reference into the dub for Prison School. They aren't doing it to be funny. They do it because they see their job as a position of power which they must use to fulfill their duty of shaming shitlords and misogynerds.
No.978974
>>978962
>>978964
>>978971
Funimation has been going down the shitter for awhile.
No.978987
>>978932
>>978917
>Bookstores are dying out in the States at least.
It's true when it comes to the big box ones, but independent ones were gaining popularity in the last few years. Amazon is also opening physical bookstores which are doing well.
>>978959
It does take a bit away from it. At least Europeans still seem to favor relaying on techniques like that as little as possible. However, it's mostly because market allows them to. Grind is not as crazy as in Japan or America. Lack of unified, ingrained art style takes some edge off as well.
No.978997
>>978974
Out of curiousity, how many dubbing companies out there do honest work?
No.978999
>>978929
All of those genres do exist in American and European comics. The problem is no one has heard of them, because they don't sell them in convenience stores, or advertise them through televised anime.
You have to already be at least slightly initiated into the scene to find this stuff. John Normie isn't just going to stumble upon some science fiction comic that isn't attached to the Marvel or DC universes. I showed someone the comic adaptation of Fahrenheit 451 once, and he was shocked that such a thing could exist.
No.979020
>>978966
Manga is preferable to comics. Their model is better but is a little more harsher than ours. There is not many people who can churn out 18-20 pg comics a week, forgoing color pages for special color spreads. They also have bi-weekly and monthly so there is that option who can't keep up with the weekly schedule.
We could probably use the magazine style of multiple stories with a few new one-shots to gauge interest. Not sure they'd go for it since it will be all color since that is what you'd expect from a comic so the pricing might be too high. $10 maximum is the price point that I see people paying for it if it has 10-15 comics in it. They probably don't expect a huge amount of people buying it in the millions that they could get from individual books combined. Also, the digital age has kind of killed that for comics so you won't get that style of book anymore. They stopped doing it like those mail corners you used to get in the back of comics.
Also, the one big hurdle in comics has always been the structure of the event comic. While manga may have some crossovers and references here and there within the magazine coming from the same company, they don't have these over glorified events that make narrative stories broken where everyone has to participate in it. I witnessed this when I was on that New 52 bandwagon to give comics a shot again. As soon as I was enjoying a few of the books, then these events started showing up and it threw off my sense of interest.
You had villain event that took over the usual comics releases spot so you had to wait a month for the continuation of the story. You had a event where it stops the current story taking place and having these new story out of nowhere taking over. You had to cross over to read other books you might not have read yet to continue the story in another book because it wasn't good enough to be able to tell their version of the story without having to tell you in a blurb "read this to understand why this is happening or continue the story".
To me, it's this weird need to gather everyone in some kind of universe defining moment because they happen to share the same universe that is a little outdated in comics. Not all comics from the same company need to participate in every extinction level event that happens. Some stories can just be doing their own thing. You could probably cut it down to only the major characters participating with a few B or C-list ones here and there, and it would do fine. Don't disrupt an ongoing story because you didn't plan the timing so that you can do your little event comic that is there to boost sales. I think it's been proven that short term gimmicks don't last for long. A lack of risk is another factor. The model that comics use is just do it yourself if you aren't happy with it. Honestly, that might be the better option since big companies really only change when they are in dire straits and they reserve those decisions one they are out of the woods of debt.
No.979157
>>978940
>3rd pic
Those fan arts seem nice. There's something about seeing that fan service center which seems fun and real.
No.979158
>>978962
This and the Prison School dub are what pushed me from not caring about dub/sub to full on sub with rare exceptions. This bothered me more than 4kids' infamous edits and "translations", which can at least be laughed at for how comically bad some of them were.
Funimation's line change didn't even make sense. The dub implied she was pressured into wearing skimpy outfits, so this would mean that people would encourage her to wear outfits that showed off her body, right? If that was the case, then why was she always criticized for doing so and be forced to cover herself up more in following scenes? I know pushing agendas or political ideas within entertainment is nothing new, but why do it so blatantly and unsubtly? It's so jarring when the agenda is the complete opposite of what the show itself portrays.
At least with 4kids edits and odd translations they had the defense of marketing the show for children, as children don't know or care about the source material making edits easier to get away with. There's also an issue of some material being less accepted in childrens' media here in the US compared to Japan. So why would Funimation mess with the dub of a show marketed for adults who are more likely familiar with the source material, have less (if any) restrictions on material they can view, and expect greater accuracy in translations? Changing lines drastically like that is unnecessary work for no payoff. It's like Funimation intentionally wants to kill themselves off, or will unintentionally do so out of sheer ignorance over who their audience is.
No.979183
>>978956
Don't forget that the only way to survive as a mangaka in Japan is to have an autistic dedication to your craft, to the point that most mangaka suffer health issues from working on their comics so hard.
No.979188
>>979183
Yes and no. A lot of that is because of societal pressures to work all of the time. In fact, for some, such as Osamu Tezuka, it was a point of pride to sleep as little as possible in pursuit of their craft.
No.979208
>>979020
European model would probably be more preferable. You have everything manga has, but they also release comic books like actual novels: a thick and complete volume, released once it is ready - usually once a year. Some Image books are dabbling in that already. Sex, for example, used to be sold in floppies, but switched to TPBs exclusively.
There also is less burnouts in European comics and books tend to at least retain qualiity for decades.
>>979158
Another issue with dubs is that there is a very small pool of "talent." Cynic in me assumes that it is due to nepotism and voice actor's guild engaging in malicious practices that negatively impact studios and new VAs. They also have a lot of difficulties with finding actors that could match the voice and skill of the original voice actors.
People are raving about how great dub of the FMAB is, but I had to switch it off. I expected the alchemist loli from not!china to start talking about Jesus and calling people heathen.
No.979211
>>979158
>Changing lines drastically like that is unnecessary work for no payoff.
Same problem with vidya localization. It seems like it would be more trouble to completely re-write and change the personality of primary characters in vidya. You'd think going through the trouble of removing and editing costumes for characters would be more trouble than it's worth. More often than not, the ones causing the drama are their journo fuckbuddies who start shaking like a chihuahua when they see big anime tits, and rarely ever do customers, parents, or the people who actually look forward to these games being localized ever bitch about a character's costume showing a little cleavage or bare midriff… But localizers insist that they absolutely MUST butcher these games and anime series because the market demands it, when it absolutely does not.
No.979223
>>979158
The thing about 4kids is that i can understand their practice, because they are "translating" show that are for kids/preteens in japan to/for kids/preteens in the USA. I can understand why they would change something like remove vulgarity or partial nudity, it is really silly when they do something like remove a gun with nothing or smokes to a lollipop. But i can understand why, what is going on now makes no sense nor does it help the dub in anyway, some lines have no reason to be change but they do it anyway, funny enough you see the changes on ecchi's the most, and i would like to know who the heck watches those dub or even broadcast them on TV.
No.979239
>>979208
I think the VA guild's power has been slipping recently because they did a strike about a year ago for stupid reasons, which allowed newer VAs to get some work.
No.979242
>>979208
Most dub 'actors' aren't proper actors
No.979267
>>979242
Most actors aren't proper actors.
No.979301
>>978956
>>978951
>>978936
>>978874
In Japan, a work is considered a "hit", and a creator a "superstar", based on sales figures, not Rich Johnson's opinion.
No.979315
>>979301
They also tend to calculate sales numbers on the number of books that get into the hands of customers, rather than just the number of units that get off-loaded on brick and mortar stores by shady distributors.
No.979319
>>978966
I swear, the only reason the americomi industry has managed to throttle along for this long is because the foothold capeshit has in American pop culture is weakening with comic books being replaced with movies and Netflix shows as the preferred medium to digest capeshit, and that the American public has only recently discovered manga and all it entails.
Give it some time and hope, and you'd have multiple countries in an advanced stage of accepting manga/anime like France, where common knowledge of manga extends even beyond WSJ series.
>>978794
Ik ken dat gevoel.
No.979324
>>979267
In as much as they can't act, yes. But they're members of the Screen Actors' Guild, they act, and only act, for a living
Dub actors on the other hand are almost literally people off the street. They work at the licensor and are often simply the nearest voice to hand.
No.979332
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>979242
Spot on. The embed video is short, but the point relevant here is between 0:27 and 1:42
Only mistake he says is that the pro voice actors get in because they can act.
Might be true for some, but overall it's outright nepotism, or having a handful of VAs that they "trust" who have enough vocal range to do other rolls on other shows (hence the other criticism of dubbed anime- the same 10 people over and over. More in depth here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY3KiKfzmgE kinda sucks up to dubbing companies, but his argument for why they do it is sound, even though they shouldn't.)
The restriction of having to match lip-flaps also hurts it. Ironically, dubs that go off script and just do their own thing seem to go over well for their target audience (Ghost Story's gag-dub and most of Team Rocket's voice actors ad-libbing in Pokemon). The Jap words are changed to something that vaguely fits in english yet has the same meaning (if possible), then you have to match the lip flaps. That shit is hard for an experienced actor. Essentially anime dub actors have learned to act wrong to keep getting rolls. The awkward cadence it had since the 80s. Western cartoons animate after the recording is done, so good performances can shine (as well as other creative freedoms. I.e. they record more or less intense emotional reads, then adapt the animation accordingly).
Still, Anime is a little less cucked than western media (though companies like (((NetFlix))) and (((CrunchyRoll))) throwing money at them might change that down the line).
>>978964
Even weirder since Lucoa (IIRC) is oblivious to how others see her, and is heavily implied to have been overthrown by ancient aztecs for trying to fuck shotas.
>>978966
They did have a dip recently which has lead to new stuff. Naruto and Dragon Ball are slowing down- two big cash cows. And One Piece just kept running for so long, people are dropping it. The big three (and arguably just one piece) not raking in the cash made Japs think the whole industry was crashing. They blamed piracy, analytics showed it wasn't that. So some factoid claims they greenlit more stuff in a year than the last 5.
They're desperate to find the next big show.
They also pick-up indies more. And they don't care if they have a background in porn/hentai.
No.979341
>>979332
>Japs thought the whole industry was crashing
It's hilarious though, because ultimately even with the lower numbers they're still a powerhouse compared to any American comic. One Piece is the single best-selling manga of all time, so much that it dwarfs any American comic. The best-selling comic of 2017 was Marvel Legacy, selling 305,000 copies that year.
In comparison, One Piece's 87th volume sold 1,505,000 copies in a single week.
No.979344
>>978929
>Want generic fantashit?
Jeez, I wish. It's so hard to find a fantasy manga without isekai shit and CRPG mechanics in it. Even Goblin Slayer has trace amounts of that shit.
No.979347
>>979344
Mind elaborating on CRPG mechanics? Not sure what you mean.
No.979349
>>979332
>Anime is a little less cucked than western media
Anime still has money coming in to invest in new shit. Cartoons (and western media in general) are stuck in a transitional period. Audiences are changing and the media companies are struggling to adapt to it.
Let's take DC's new imprints for example. While it's nice that they're expanding into GN market, it's clear that they're still not treating it with the respect it deserves, shilling their old Justice League IPs instead of something teens will want to read.
No.979355
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>979349
Anime isn't treading any new ground right now. I don't think NGE would be made right now.
No.979359
>>979157
Yeah that picture by Renee Lott is really cool, stylish, very nice use of ink work and the black and light. I hope she went on to do more art.
No.979368
>>979355
Well, they can't be experimental as they used to be. Now they take safe bets by adapting shit Light Novels and then selling the same thing they broadcasted but with nipples in the BD version.
I'm surprised one of the most experimental and high quality anime series right now is Pop Team Epic.
No.979373
>>978826
You know those kids with bad eating habits then the parents put some tomato pieces on his mac and cheese? You are the kid, being bamboozled one spoon at the time. I mean, someone that is a fan of the original work should have learned a thing or two about compromises.
No.979384
>>979347
I am not that anon, but it is usually cramming in skills, stats, power levels, and rigidly defined classes.
Even Seven Deadly Sins/Nanutsu no Taizai has it, despite just being a fantasy set in world inspired by Arthurian legends. Characters literally have stats that certain magical abilities and items allow you to see. What's even worse, part of the plot revolves around main characters training/grinding to get their numbers higher then the bad guys. Their plan is literally "we need to get our numbers higher than theirs, so we can beat them."
>>979355
>>979366
Notice that a lot of experimental anime came out in the 90s or later. Anime didn't really get much weirder than it is right now until the mid 80s, and Evangelion open floodgates to a whole lot of shit that pushed boundaries. Things just regressed over time, and crisis made studios play it extra safe for the last few years.
No.979399
>>978805
>Y-yeah well you're just not white
This is what /pol/ actually believes
No.979444
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>979158
>>979242
God I hate English-language anime dubs. I have no problem watching American or British movies, TV series, even cartoons, but American anime dubs are so cringy and revolting. Even in Cowboy Bebop, where the author allegedly liked English dub more than original, it took me about five minutes to switch back to Jap audio. I ever heard some decent Russian dubs, but never the American ones.
No.979457
>>978788
Don't matter. It's objectively the biggest comic in the world right now. The 3rd biggest of all time behind Batman and Superman.
No.979620
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>978635
That's mostly because western comics (both American and European) are chock-full with sub-par, boring themes (cowboys, vikangz, empty capes, abstract works that say nothing and cost 25 bucks or more, dystopian slice of life comics with impressionist drawings etc.), this of course, ignoring all the (((agenda))) shit they have been shoving in our throats in the last decade.
And let's not talk about the crazy amount of tracing hacks in (((DC and Marvel))) works.
Now, I will say that Japanese comics suffer from this too; Tons of moe shit, Isekai's out the ass (lately) and copy pasted archetypes.
But what made manga triumph over western comics is:
1. Less poz (it gets boring after a while, trust me)
2. better art styles (which repudiates the more "realistic" styles of the west, which lack beauty nowadays)
3. more original themes (among all the sub-par shit, that is)
Video related.
No.979808
>>979620
>manga
>better art styles
lol, no
No.979905
>>978756
Either that or really fucking stoned…
No.979925
>>979620
>That's mostly because western comics (both American and European) are chock-full with sub-par, boring themes
>European
You clearly haven't read any Euro comics and are just talking out of your ass, like the retarded nigger you are.
No.979931
>>979808
I don't think you can deny that manga has a larger pool of art styles, and the ability to experiment more has led to better art styles than American comics. Either American comics have shit art, or they're the same kind of realistic art. The only one I can think of to break that mold is Hellboy.
And before you say 'oh but I like the art in [insert comic here],' you should ask yourself if the art is so recognizable like in many manga that you'd be able to tell who drew it even without context and with a random character. Chances are, you won't be able to. There's too much of a focus on realism. Even the realistic styles in manga take their own turn to be unique and stand out.
I'd argue it's the problem of having colored comics. People rely too much on it to make it pop. It's best to have black and white in most cases to let an artist really push themselves.
No.980053
Why is this thread anchored?
>>979931
>The only one I can think of to break that mold is Hellboy.
You need to read more good books, then. Frank Cho, Adam Hughes, Stan Sakai, Gabriel Rodgriguez, Dave Sim, Alex Ross, Bruce Timm, Tradd Moore, Jason Stokoe, and Bill Sienkiewicz have distinct and instantly recognizable art styles.
>>979620
Have you read any European comic? Artstyles range from detailed oil paintings in The Mercenary to simple cartoons in Lucky Luke or Asterix, or something in between, like Ekho. Same with stories. You can have a pure goofy fun like Le Petite Spirou, or an epic adventure series like Thorgal, which speaks about importance of family and commitment once you look beneath all the Vikings, magic, and science fiction elements.
No.980216
>>980053
You got me on Bruce Timm. Forgot about him. But Adam Hughes and Frank Cho are literally the crap I was talking about. They are the American equivalent to the shitty SAO generic anime style.
No.980217
>>980053
>Alex Ross
He's a commercial artist who bilks fanboys by painting his friends in cosplay. He doesn't deserve to be in the same league with the likes of Bruce Timm.
No.980218
>>980053
>>980216
It says a lot that Stan Sakai is so influenced by manga in his work. Rodriguez is another generic 'realistic' artist. Sim is even more of a realistic artist to the point where I don't think it can even be considered a 'style,' Ross is another realistic artist and whose only style comes from his photorealistic and dramatic lighting rather than the art itself, Moore I'll give you but I've seen edgy art styles like his plenty of times before so it's not particularly unique, I'll give you Stokoe, and Sienkiewicz is just like Ross in that he just draws a realistic style and then creates his style by the colors. Just black and white you couldn't tell him apart from other artists.
So you gave me three names. Bruce Timm, Jason Stokoe, and kind of Tradd Moore if I'm being nice.
You know having a distinct art style is not just a matter of having 'good' art, right?
No.980276
>>979242
>>979267
In fact, just bring back silent cartoons and fuck actors altogether.
No.980282
>>978643
This. I never bought a floppy and I never will. There isn't enough content in a single floppy and on top of that, you get fucking ads in something you paid for.
No.980420
>>979444
The dub for Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt was pretty good except for the fact they changed scanty and kneesock's accents
No.980425
>>978635
The Manga market would tank if African Americans stopped reading it.
No.980444
>>978643
>>980282
Floppies are the best form to read a comic in by far. Zero gutter loss and earliest physical format available. If you are genuinely a fan of a comic, floppies are the way to go. I think the problem is there are no comics right now worth being a genuine fan over.
No.980454
>>980218
>>980216
>Rodriguez is another generic 'realistic' artist
>Sim is even more of a realistic artist to the point where I don't think it can even be considered a 'style'
>Sienkiewicz is just like Ross in that he just draws a realistic style and then creates his style by the colors
Are you serious? All of their art is pretty stylized not not as realistic as you make it out to be. All three of them had "generic realistic" styles at the begging of their careers, but they changed considerably over the years. It is no different from many mangakas who start out with a pretty generic only to develop their own unique style later on.
>>980218
>It says a lot that Stan Sakai is so influenced by manga in his work.
To me it always looked like an even mixture of Japanese woodblock print, western cartoon, and manga. What's wrong with being influenced? It looks completely different than any manga I can think of. Many mangakas are influenced by western artists as well, although influences tend to lean towards more classical and fine artists.
>Moore I'll give you but I've seen edgy art styles like his plenty of times before
What other artists have artstyle similar to Moore's? Any examples?
>>980216
How is Cho's and Hughe's art generic and shitty? There is nothing wrong with it on the technical level, and they are distinct enough to stand apart from art of people like Van Scriver, modern day Lee, Conrad and so on. Only way to say that they are not distinct is if someone has little to no exposure to American comics. Just like faggots who never read manga say that it looks all the same, which is just as wrong.
No.980458
>>980276
>Make the cartoons with speech bubbles instead
That would encourage your audience lo read and learn.
No.980479
>>980444
There definitely is still at least some room for floppies. Issue is that too many creators are writing for trades, and in those cases, it would be far better to abandon floppies in favor of GNs.
>I think the problem is there are no comics right now worth being a genuine fan over.
It's the price that is the biggest issue, as people used to buy almost anything up to the end of 90s. Comics used to cost $1.00 back in the 1990, and about $2.00 in 1991 and most of the 90s. Taking inflation into the account, it translates to about $3.00 today. That together with wages stagnating and not growing in accordance with inflation of prices, more cost efficient entertainment alternatives (videogames, books, streaming services, social media and youtube), and better quality foreign comics, makes American books less attractive choice. Manga having an advertisement arm in the form of Anime, and comics being relegated to comic book stores does not help either.
No.980499
>>980454
>They're not just realisitc artstyles, let me cherry-pick to show you!
Literally none of these three artists are anything special. The most different is Rodriguez and he just… Makes eyes slightly bigger. Cool.
As for Tradd Moore, how about Alan Martin's work on Tank Girl? Or any artists on Tank Girl, really. Honestly, I'd go so far as to say there's three general art styles in American comics, with only some little nuances between them: Realistic (the generic shit you're avoiding is generic, ala insisting Hughes and Cho have such unique art), typical 'cartoony' with big eyes and a bit more style but usually just the same shit, and the space in between for the "gritty" but "artsy" comics like Tank Girl or things like the Gorillaz.
I don't know why it's so hard for you to admit. American comics have an art style problem. Same with American cartoons. There tends to be very little diversity. It's probably because so many of the people who go into these fields try to be as less jarring as possible if artists suddenly change, as even the ones who do indie comics have probably dabbled in long-running comics. Mangaka and European artists have their own works and don't ever have to worry about fitting into a certain mold; they can experiment as they please.
No.980500
>>980454
Should also add. Adam Hughes does not know what hips are, and both he and Cho have a massive problem with samefacing; Adam Hughes especially.
But look at these two pictures. Can you tell who drew these without cheating?
No.980501
>>980425
gee I wonder why black people prefer those racist and sexist gook comics rather than progressive and racially aware capeshit
No.980502
The direction this thread is taking is interesting.
Do we need a current year version of Scott McColoud's Big Triangle?
No.980503
>>979620
clearly you need to read more comics about rich ducks
No.980504
>>980499
>>980502
Ah, that reminds me of another example of someone with Tradd Moore-esc art. Frank Miller.
No.980505
>>980053
> Jason Stokoe
I remember him he did some Godzilla books. I really got to pick up Half Century War.
>>980276
Or just go the Genndy Tartakovsky route with focus on visuals an minimal dialogue.
>>980500
I'm gonna guess that Hughes did the one on the left and Cho did the one on the right. Though you do have a point about sameface. It's a problem I notice with cheesecake artists a lot.
>>980504
For some reason John Romita Jr.'s later work reminds me of Frank Millers later art style. I guess both deteriorated over time.
No.980527
>>980505
>Cheesecake sameface
Porn artists are worse. Lol, how about Shadmanface? Or fucking Zimmerman? Or Jab?
No.980562
>>980499
>The most different is Rodriguez and he just… Makes eyes slightly bigger. Cool.
I only know Rodriguez from non-big two work. It looks like he streamlines his art style when working for DC. His work on Locke and Key, Tales from the Darkside, Beowulf, Sword of Ages and other books is more stylized. He exaggerates all facial features, including face shapes.
>As for Tradd Moore, how about Alan Martin's work on Tank Girl?
Martin wrote Tank Girl, you silly goose. Unless you mean the commercial artist Alan Martin, who's art is completely unlike Moore's and never had anything to to do with Tank Girl.
There were many artists who worked on Tank Girl, and none that I recall have style similar to Moore. Only think Moore has in common with Tank Girl is that she was an obvious inspiration for Petra's design.
>Sienkiewicz example
Notice that all his realistic art involves real life celebrities or live action movie characters. Whenever he draws comic book characters or on rare case he still does comic book interiors, he draws them like this and my earlier examples.
>I don't know why it's so hard for you to admit.
I just wanted to pint out that there actually are varied artists working in American comics. As I said before, saying that "all American comics look the same" is just as bad as saying that "all manga looks the same." There definitely are similarities among certain artists, but if you pay attention, it is easy to see variety.
>American comics have an art style problem.
That is true. However, Tumblr style is currently the worst one.
>Dave SIm Example
This is just a cover to one of his letters collections. His work in comics does not look like that. Just because artists draws something realistically once in a while, does not mean that this is their one and only style. You get to see it far more with western comic artists, because they are less busy than mangakas and tend to post more of their studies and non-work related art on social media. Here is Araki's art that looks more realistic than most artist's I brought up. Is it a ground to call his style generic and realistic?
>>980500
Left is obviously Hughes and Right is obviously Cho. There are quite a few differences. Most obvious are shadows and highlights. Hughes likes to exaggerate them, while Cho barely utilizes them in comic art. When Cho uses shadows, they tend to be etchings, while Hughes almost exclusively uses solid dark areas. They also draw hair differently. Cho like to draw them as collection of strands, while Hughes draws them as either larger clumps of almost a singular "mass." Cho's characters also tend to have more wrinkles on their faces, and face shapes are more exaggerated than Hughes'. When it comes to drawing women's eyes, Hughes like to make them look like they have a heavy amount of mascara on. Clothing wrinkles are more prominent in Cho's art.
>Adam Hughes does not know what hips are, and both he and Cho have a massive problem with samefacing
Fair enough. Cho falls back on sameface when he does not do interiors. They both seem to have one ideal female face, and everything they draw are variations of it, and differences are too subtle too often. They could definitely stretch themselves more.
>>980504
Only similarity is emphasizing all creases and folds. Moore's artstyle is not as blocky and squarish as Miller's. Moore also prefers heavier line, and makes his work very regular and clean. Miller's work is more chaotic and is more relent on thin lines.
>>980505
>For some reason John Romita Jr.'s later work reminds me of Frank Millers later art style. I guess both deteriorated over time.
Both of them have blocky and a bit chaotic artstyles.
No.980563
>>980562
Christ. You really have a problem defending this stuff so bad. You seem like you recognize it deep down if you have to nitpick to show how different they are. The fact of the matter is that they're not as unique of art styles as you get in non-American comics. I'm sure you know deep down someone who doesn't have a trained eye will think they look largely the same. But someone who doesn't read manga is never going to think Araki's art looks the same as Junji Ito's.
No.980564
>>980563
There's variation out there if you look for it.
No.980566
>>980564
Is even X'ed out really unique, though? Other than those two characters they're, again, generic realistic characters. The one pig-nose is unique-looking because he's a freak. The other guy looks like Tin-Tin. And the art style itself? What are you pointing at here? It's just bold lines like many generic cartoons.
I feel like there's a big problem here if the thinking is 'this art is good' or 'this character kinda looks strange' and equating that to a unique art style.
Most obvious is because the more I think, I can think of them, but they're not the ones focused on in these arguments. Why argue Charles Burns over, say, Jhonen Vasquez? Or Leslie Hung, however much influenced by manga she is? Again, instantly recognizable in the way they draw eyes, noses, etc. Bill Willingham DOES occasionally break from his mold of the generic that I was talking about in the way he draws certain characters in Fables.
But it's rare, and the comic artists who do this usually have their own control over their comic and don't dabble in long-running comic series.
I think it is funny that the argument is so solid when just about everyone also happens to agree that, for instance, current cartoons all look the same. Sure, I could argue that Rebecca Sugar's art is more scratchy with more anime-like eyes, while Ian Jones-Quartey has little focus on eyes and instead focuses more on bigger or plumper bodies, but does that mean that there isn't an overall consistency in the art direction of cartoons like OK KO and Steven Universe?
No.980567
>>980563
I don't think that "it looks the same to the untrained eye" is an effective defence of your argument.
No.980568
>>980566
I'm confused as to what it is you want exactly. Do most comics from all over the world not tend to feature fairly realistically proportioned humans? I guess I could bring up Donald Duck comics.
No.980569
>>980567
And I don't think "oh this art style is a bit more blocky and squarish," or "oh he exaggerates his faces a little more" is an argument.
Again, you can say the same thing about the current sameface bullshit happening in American comics. 'Ah, Rebecca Sugar has a sketchier art style, and Ian Jones-Quarterly has stronger lines! Pen Ward usually draws general figures!'
Ultimately, the problem still exists.
>>980568
>Use artists with fairly realistic styles as examples of unique art styles
>Think this is purely about realistically proportioned humans
Though you seem to imply you don't know non-American comics if you have to ask that question.
No.980570
>>980569
I don't understand what you mean by realistic, because a lot of what I'm looking at doesn't look realistic to me.
No.980592
>>980566
>And the art style itself? What are you pointing at here? It's just bold lines like many generic cartoons.
>Why argue Charles Burns over, say, Jhonen Vasquez? Or Leslie Hung, however much influenced by manga she is?
How can I take you seriously when you say things like this?
No.980593
>>979444
>I have no problem watching American or British movies, TV series, even cartoons, but American anime dubs are so cringy and revolting
That's because the former are made in English or designed to be in English. Anime is designed to be in Japanese, a language that English has very little commonality with, and as a result for English dubbing to work it either has to be completely unfaithful to the original script or else sound completely unnatural to fit the lip movements. Even English dubs where they get all the celebrities, like Studio Ghibli dubs, never sound like they fit properly.
>Even in Cowboy Bebop, where the author allegedly liked English dub more than original
Allegedly is correct, Watanabe never actually said this
No.980604
>>980593
>Even English dubs where they get all the celebrities, like Studio Ghibli dubs, never sound like they fit properly.
If anything, celebrities make it even worse. Voices are either too recognizable or sound phoned in. Do people even care about celebrities voicing animated characters any more? Getting proper VAs or stage actors would probably be better in most cases.
No.980605
>Buy a manga
"Awesome! 195 pages of story, ads for other books are placed at the back so they don't interfere with the flow of the story, uncensored and the creators write a thank you for buying the book!"
>Buy an American comic
"Wtf? 28 pages? Ads are placed through the book breaking the flow of the story, SJW politics and the author shits all over me the customer on twitter!?"
Is it really a surprise manga sales went up?
No.980607
>>980604
>Do people even care about celebrities voicing animated characters any more?
Studios think they make animated films more commercial but they often pick actors who aren't exactly known for having good or distinctive voices and they eat up the budget.
No.980752
>>980607
Regarding celebrities voicing anime movies I keep thinking of Patrick Stewart. On the one hand he's not bad at all but his voice is too recognizable.
No.980758
>>980604
>Do people even care about celebrities voicing animated characters any more?
Worked pretty well for Soviet animation, where they often used popular movie actors for voicing, and usually the ones with the distinctive voices. In fact, it even worked with anime dubs.
No.980861
>>980420
The P&SwG dub is the only anime dub that I preferred over the original VAs. They took a lot of liberties but really made it shine.
No.980943
>>978874
I mean the one downside is the shonen jump process of handling things. Artists working themselves to death and the work suffering because of it. See: The dude behind Bleach and pretty much everyone else besides One Piece because One Piece is made by a man who sold his soul to the devil at a crossroads at midnight.
No.980947
>>980861
Cromartie High never worked for me until i saw it in English. I also like Gundam in English, but I think that's my personal nostalgia for watching old anime dubbed.
No.981127
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>978785
Were these ads the origin for the JUICE FRUIT PIES Dexter ads. Or were there TV Advertisements as well?
No.981132
>>978940
I really like those old single issue mangas. Darkhorse and VIZ mainly published them.
Its pretty much how manga is published in japan with chapter after chapter releases. But most of it is also consumed in large weekly or monthly jump volumes.
No.981150
>>981127
I'm not aware of any superhero-sponsored TV adverts except for Superman peanut butter (yes, really), so yeah, these would be the origin
There are few cringier than the Spiderman Hostess ad
No.981151
No.983068
Wait, is this why the weeb replaced the SJW in the head position at Marvel?
>>978962
Funimation has also done the same with two other series; quickly becoming the new 4Kids.
No.983156
>>978856
I've literally never found a way to pirate comic books in my life. It's very odd to me that each time I've asked for guidance on this issue, people seem to almost deliberately pretend I never made the request.
How does one pirate comics?
No.983185
>>978856
Manga is pirated to hell and back and still makes money. So do movies, books, video games, and software. There is even research backing up that piracy is not nearly as harmful as certain people make it out to be. It was commissioned by EU, but when it confirmed that piracy has little to no ill effect on sales, EU tried to bury it. It was all over tech news not too long ago.
Thing is, most people who pirate won't pay anyway. Guess where piracy rates are high? Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, China, Latin America, etc. The poorer the country is, the higher piracy rate there, same applies to individuals.
It all comes down to how cost efficient and convenient buying something is. Comic books are neither, so no one is buying them. For a price of TPB you can have a proper book or a manga volume, both of which are of higher quality and provide more bang for the buck. Comics are simply overpriced on American market and their availability has been too limited until recently. Comixology and online distribution in general are especially good for European comics and indies.
I started downloading shit because I was a poorfag. Now I just download books that seem interesting, and if they are good, I buy them. Most what I get are translated European books, mainly from Europa, Aftershock, and other smaller publishers. Exception are big two books, because Marvel and DC do not deserve any money after what they did to American comic book industry.
>>983156
If you downloaded a product without paying for it, you pirated. Doesn't matter if it was just a browser download from file sharing website or peer-to-peer. How new are you? Visit >>>/scurv/ or the sharethread if you want to know more.
No.983186
>>983156
You search for scans.
No.983189
I really hate digital comics, it's not nearly as comfy as actually holding them in your hand physically. How do you pirates cope with that?
No.983190
>>978929
Lucky Star's a shonen while Kiniro Mosaic's a seinen. It's amazing how that is.
No.983191
>>979158
4kids butchering is out of incompetence, but they had "reasonable" intentions. Funimatiom butchering is out of political malice and agenda driven. I rather take riceball donuts over getting shamed for shit.
No.983198
>>979925 (You) in particular, kill yourself.
>>980053
>>980503
I was clearly talking about modern European PC shit, you retarded mongoloids. I wasn't bashing the classics.
Go check in your local comic book store how much overpriced PC garbage they are putting out.
No.983205
>>983189
Doesn't really bother me. I like having a backlit screen and being able to enlarge the images.
No.983207
>>983189
I was against it at first, but then I grew to realize that a digital comic will never get damaged the way printed paper does (folds, cuts, crumbles, colors wearing out…etc) so it's much more resilient. Not to mention it's efficient storage-wise; I can fit a thousand digital comics in my pocket (on a memory stick for example), but I can't fit a thousand printed comics.
Besides a digital copy of anything can be very easily replicated unto physical media multiple times with the same exact quality as the source, you can't scan/photocopy a printed page and get the same quality.
No.983208
>>983207
Also forgot to mention
>muh dead trees
No.983222
>>983189
I like paper, and that's what I go for in case of actual books, manga, and B&W comics. However, I hate that glossy paper with passion. That crap collects fingerprints, produces glare, attracts dust, and sometimes ink smears or comes off of the page. It is really annoying to have to wash your hands every 20 minutes to read a comic, only touch very edges of paper, or read in gloves.
Why can't they just use matte glossy paper that Watchmen was printed on in mid 2000s? It was sturdier, less reflective, and did not collect fingerprints. Judging on the price of the book, it was also cheaper than paper in other comics.
No.983226
>>983207
Go and read a webcomic from 2000, now read a print comic from the same year, let me know how that goes for you.
No.983238
>>983226
digital comic =/= webcomic
No.983278
>>983189
>How do you pirates cope with that?
By having ages of comic book wealth at our fingertips.
Pirate collections are often better and more diverse than the garbage DC and Marvel publishes.
No.983283
if the comics code never happened we would have a comic culture like Japans manga culture
No.983285
>>983278
>How do you pirates cope with that?
If something is good enough, I will buy a physical copy. Alternatively, I visit library and read physical versions that way.
>>983283
It would probably become a hybrid of manga and European comics.
>>983278
Any recommendations for Dr. Fate reading? I liked the Dr. Fate story in DC's annual newcomer compilation book, and character is always interesting when it appears in animation or other comics.
No.983288
>>983285
>Any recommendations for Dr. Fate reading?
Early Dr. Fate is really fun. It's like a sober version of Stardust The Super Wizard.
I'll probably end up storytiming some of it soon.
No.983308
>>978680
>he stood his place for truth rather than peace
I always love how many people consistently see past the fact that it was Roscharch's feelings which did him in, rather than the ´never compromise´line. Did you happen to forget about the whole, all the people will look up to me to save me and I will say no?
It's not an accident that Rorscharch is shown as someone with a very low opinion of everyone around him (and those he does have a high opinion like The Comedian, he straight up gives passes for behavior he would not have tolerated from others). It was the sheer scale of death that broke his stoic facade and caused him to seek action for those people he had spent so long maligning and undervaluing. Hell, you could even see how this could lead to him knowingly seeking suicide-by-Manhattan.
Rorscharch was Moore's take on Objectivists (given his quoted reference for Ditko's Mr. A as inspiration), with the fascination of black and white morality and his own idiosyncratic blind spots.
No.983315
>>983185
>Thing is, most people who pirate won't pay anyway.
Very true. I was never going to buy any of the terrible comics that we make fun of in the storytime threads (eg Kate Leth stuff, America, etc) because they are just sound bad and I had no interest in them even before that, which the story time just reconfirms is a bad comic. Or conflicting stuff like Princeless with fuckloads of pozzed awards but was a terribly written comic and its only redeeming element was the art.
On the rare occasion we actually have good modern comic's storytimed (that I'm usually never heard of) I would actually consider buying (if available in LCS) if I wanted a physical copy
Basically make good media and don't fuck over/insult/annoying DRM your potential audience as the majority of pirates are NEVER going to give money (sometimes because the don't have it due to poorness or even a credit card for online purchases), while the pirates that actually like/respect it have a good chance of giving you money in the future when it's available for them to buy legally or at a discounted price or if it becomes available in a accessible form in their own country.
No.983317
>>983308
>It was the sheer scale of death that broke his stoic facade and caused him to seek action for those people he had spent so long maligning and undervaluing.
The same thing happened to the Comedian. Both he and Rorschach built up these personalities where they thought they knew the dark underbelly of humanity, only to be confronted with the reality that they knew nothing at all.
And in the light of it, they both chose suicide rather than live in a world more terrible than they imagined.
No.983319
>>983317
Agreed, but I don't see people lionizing the Comedian, so I don't ever have to spend 10 minutes writing a rebuttal to people whose hard-on for Rorscharch blind them to the full extent of his character flaws (which, if they choose to have a go at me for, should be properly reminded is different from a flawed characterization).
No.983326
>>983315
Sometimes if I pirate something that turns out to be really good, I buy a copy later, to show my support, and just to have it.