Benefits of the Counter-Reformation

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Benefits of the Counter-Reformation 04/29/19 (Mon) 21:47:28 1e8027 No.3542

Catholics should at least acknowledge that the Reformation forced them to clean house. I'd like to hear /christianity/'s thoughts on how the Catholic church improved (or worsened) as a result of the Reformation. I found this list online and added a few:

1. Greater clarity with regards to doctrine – an unequivocal set of rules.

2. The superstitions of the Medieval Church were under control.

3. New orders were established and went into the community to do “good work” and to help the sick and poor. A spiritual commitment applied to all tasks, which was a good example to lay people.

4. Greater importance put on communion, which enabled the faith to be cultivated and spread.

5. Popes were more open to constructive change and recognized the corruption of the old church. More churches were built.

6. The power of the popes was unquestioned after Trent – this was good if they were pro-reform.

7. The Counter-Reformation proved to the outside world that the Catholic Church had recognized its past failings and was willing to reform itself rather than blind itself to its faults.

8. Ideas of the new Catholic Church spread by groups like the Jesuits.

9. Good support (in general) by Catholic lay rulers after 1555. The Council of Trent was accepted everywhere and though Philip II controlled the Catholic Church in Spain he was an ardent Catholic.

10. The power of Spain in the C16 meant that the Catholic Church had very strong backing.

11. Translation of the Bible into English.

04/29/19 (Mon) 21:56:21 7f31a3 No.3545

Reminder to everyone to read the Antidote to the Council of Trent

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/calvin_trentantidote.html

Shows how the Counter-Reformation was not truly a reformation at all, but a shield against reformation

04/29/19 (Mon) 22:06:14 1e8027 No.3546

>>3545

That's a difficult read and seems to be rather technical. Could you summarize a few points?

04/29/19 (Mon) 22:26:13 44ce76 No.3549

File: 2f9dd256d5f814b⋯.png (371.02 KB, 680x497, 680:497, Geneva_Feels.png)

The counter-reformation was a net positive event in Christian history because it proved once and for all time that romanism is a pagan cult devoid of the gospel

04/29/19 (Mon) 23:15:47 17c6c7 No.3556

>>3542

>1. Greater clarity with regards to doctrine – an unequivocal set of rules.

They created doctrine where there was none before. Mary's assumption into heaven, for example.

>2. The superstitions of the Medieval Church were under control.

Can you elaborate further on what you mean by this?

>4. Greater importance put on communion, which enabled the faith to be cultivated and spread.

Do you mean communion as in "the gathering of people" or communion as in the Eucharist?

>5. Popes were more open to constructive change and recognized the corruption of the old church. More churches were built.

Isn't the whole purpose of apostolic succession that the church doesn't change, and the big claim that apostolic churches have to back their authority is that they follow the traditions of old?

>6. The power of the popes was unquestioned after Trent – this was good if they were pro-reform.

I'm honestly confused by this one. You're saying it's good for the popes, who are now more powerful, to be pro-reform? Or are you saying it's good that they want to reform the church? Either way, do you see the issue here? The protestant reformation brought about a reformation of the church regardless, but this one is okay because it's approved by the RCC. And it also makes it seem a lot like the doctrine surrounding papal authority is just a power grab, though that may be with how you've worded it here.

>7. The Counter-Reformation proved to the outside world that the Catholic Church had recognized its past failings and was willing to reform itself rather than blind itself to its faults.

That's a good point, but it'd be better if they recognized their doctrine as unbiblical rather than being blinded by their traditions.

>8. Ideas of the new Catholic Church spread by groups like the Jesuits.

Ask any trad catholic what they think of the jesuits, I'll wait. And again, why are there ideas of the "new catholic church" if church doctrine isn't supposed to change?

>11. Translation of the Bible into English.

This is the only truly positive thing on the list.

04/29/19 (Mon) 23:41:59 1e8027 No.3559

>>3556

Good questions! I just copy/pasted that list from a page about the Counter-Reformation, and it didn't go into additional details so I'm not sure what the answers are. But thanks for asking good questions.

04/30/19 (Tue) 04:57:40 af4262 No.3584

>>3545

Examination of the Council of Trent is supposedly good too. I wish it was available online or at least not absurdly expensive.

04/30/19 (Tue) 13:29:57 881e1e No.3589

>>3545

this. just like other councils it's just doubling down on the establishment