>>16712
Es un clásico negro, lo que yo hago es pasar a darle directamente la definición de socialismo, social democracia y capitalismo, para luego asociar los puntos donde entra Venezuela.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism
Y voy a una comparación:
¿Tiene Venezuela un mercado libre? No, por lo tanto no es capitalista
¿El estado se rige por políticas economicas capitalistas? No, por lo tanto no es socialdemócrata.
¿Los medios de producción son controlados en su mayoría por el estado? Sí, por lo tanto es socialista.
Suelo explayarme mucho más con fuentes y racionamiento, pero entienden la idea.
Y claro el hecho de que le presenten evidencia absoluta, infinidades de fuentes y una lógica concreta, no implica que lo acepten. En mi experiencia al final la gran mayoría las evade y solo me dicen:
1- "Algún día verás que todo es culpa de [inserte gorrito de aluminio]"
2- "La historia está modificada, todo es falso, nunca hubieron tantas muertes y es otro complot" (Casualmente hoy en leftpol tuve a uno de estos)
3- O ignorar todo, y centrarse en que USA es peor porque sí, aunque le demuestre lo contrario.
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Les voy a dejar algunos pastas que hice en discusiones pasadas, espero les sirvan (todo en ingles, sorry pero me da mucha flojera hacer la traducción ahora mismo):
>-Sweden and X are not socialism:
-Sweden, the country in the 19th market freedom position (heritage)
-N° 7 in protection to private property. (The International Property Rights Index 2016)
-No minimun wage and little worker regulations.
-Most of the GDP is made by private enterprises, its based in a market economy not a planned economy.
-"Left-leaning Progressive Policy Institute has recently recommended liberalizing international trade, reducing regulation, and lowering corporate and income taxes" http://www.progressivepolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/2016_PPI_Unleashing-Innovation-and-Growth_A-Progressive-Alternative-to-Populism.pdf
-They are a monarchy.
Sorry dude, but that´s not quite socialist, unlike Venezuela which seized the 80% of his private property. Try again, try harder ;
Even the Prime Minister of Denmark has clarified it several times, THEY ARE NOT SOCIALIST: https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist
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>"Bu-but Venezuela is capitalist"
Where do you get that kind of bullshit? Let me guess from a 2010 publication, isn't that right? Well, I'll tell you, in the last 18 years, private enterprise has been gradually expropriated, to the point that technically they do not exist.
Source:
http://www.lavozdelconsumidor.com/nuevo/2017/01/11/consecomercio-denuncia-500-000-empresas-expropiadas-ultima-decada/
And in any case no merchant can be charged more than 30% of any product, SO THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE MARKET IN VENEZUELA.
Source:
https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias/2014/01/140124_venezuela_economia_ley_precios_justos_dp
The government has absolute power over the banks and expropriated the main ones years ago.
Source:
http://www.venezuelaaldia.com/2018/01/25/expropiaciones-disfrazadas-nacionalizacion-ataques-revvolucion-banca-privada/
The government also control most of the means of production and importation.
Source:
- http://elestimulo.com/elinteres/gobierno-toma-control-con-el-65-de-las-importaciones-del-pais/
- http://www.el-nacional.com/noticias/economia/gobierno-expropio-mas-millones-hectareas-estan-improductivas_231096
There, expropriation of most of the productive sector and distribution in all its areas and imposition of anti-free market law. "The state controls the means of production" by definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
IT IS A SOCIALIST COUNTRY
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Por lo general recurren a los mismo argumentos, y es fácil responderles con algún pastel ya hecho.
Y usualmente me gusta molestarlos cuando se les acaban los argumentos, para agitarlos más y pasó a enviarles memes del comunismo o los término con:
All communists flee when I respond with substantiated facts or change the definition of communism to suit them.
You are nothing but weak and cowardly parasites who live in a fantasy and do not want to accept reality, leading millions of innocent people to an ideology that has always brought misery and hunger absolutely every time it has been tried without exception.