[–]▶ No.33331>>33414 >>33767 >>33854 >>33881 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Anyone ever get into this fetish not because they are an AB or DL, but because they have a strong urge to provide love and affection to a little?
▶ No.33348
Kinda. i get the allure of it. I am more into the power control aspects so my intentions are not pure.
But the thought of an adorable little shout daddy or mommy in a wet diaper brings a tear to my eye you know…
▶ No.33356
Nah… Not for me. I don't like the whole AB thing of ABDL, I don't want to play daddy or baby to someone.
Tbh… this whole thing is a solo thing for me.
Though… I have always wanted to try it with someone.
▶ No.33374
Honestly wonder why there is a lack of caregiver discussion in regards to /abdl/. Presumed there would be more than a few people interested in being a parent rather the one in diapers.
▶ No.33377>>33380 >>33528 >>36222
This is exactly me. I am a caregiver without someone to care for - it's the worst. I've had those to talk with before, but they all disappeared.
▶ No.33380>>33407
>>33377
I volunteer as tribute
▶ No.33383>>33410
I'm kind of in between. Torn between taking care of someone, and being taken care of. As much as I want to have a Little to take care of, sometimes I want to be The Little.
▶ No.33400>>33401 >>38189
How do I find someone like you IRL (preferably female)?
▶ No.33401
>>33400
Hire a prostitute.
▶ No.33407>>33510
▶ No.33408
Considering the meet ups around here, I think a lot of caregiving anons would be sending their littles to the gym.
▶ No.33410>>33425 >>33671
YES!!! sorry if I sound a little excited, but I thought I was the only one! I feel like I would have/still would love babysitting kids because of what I want to believe are parental instincts. (there is part of me that is terrified that my urge to comfort/provide support/care to kids who feel vulnerable/scared means that I was some kind of pedo, but I want to believe that this is just a parental instinct kicking in early) I never have babysat for kids though because I never knew how to get into it. Also Im a guy so it might be considered a bit weird.
I feel like it might be a bit weird to do the whole big/little thing with another adult though. Im worried it would just feel awkward/unreal.
I think that my diaper attraction was there before the need to care for someone though. I remember as a little kid being fascinated by diapers for some reason. I assume that this was a proto fetish of some sort that was for some reason hard wired into my brain from the beginning. I also wet the bed until at least 5, I know I stopped before 7 though.
>>33383
I also feel like it would be nice to get taken care of as well. Sometimes I will create scenarios in my head and end up playing both roles in my mind. I just lay down in bed, close my eyes, and use all my brains processing power to play as 2 people at once. Both the cared for and care giver.
▶ No.33414
>>33331 (OP)
I used to be much more submissive, but over time my attraction has shifted towards being almost purely dominant. I have a pack of diapers sitting in my flat right now, but I haven't felt any particular desire to wear them in the last couple of months.
I have both a strong paternal instinct to love and care for a little, and a more sexual desire to punish and humiliate them. I am attracted to kids too, although I'd never act on it for obvious ethical reasons. I just want to look after a cute little 2D anime girl, help her enjoy her diaper/ageplay fetish, and come up with fun punishments for her when she's (intentionally) naughty.
▶ No.33425
>>33410
>use all my brains processing power to play as 2 people at once. Both the cared for and care giver.
i fucking know this feel too well jesus christ
does the ride ever end
▶ No.33510
>>33407
Don't do it anon! Little anons are exhausting!
▶ No.33528>>33530
>>33377
inb4 a million replies
if you're in or near the northeast hit me up @ tonyabtiger@ymail.com (my name isn't actually Tony lol)
▶ No.33530>>33566
>>33528
Where in northeast?
▶ No.33532>>33569 >>33570 >>33827
It's not why I got into the fetish, I discovered it after, but very much so. I have strong urges to make people feel little and loved, gently encouraging them to wear diapers as often as I can, giving them a space to be little, and just generally giving them gentle nurturing. And remarkably, I have 0 nefarious or sexual urges behind it. It's just nice
I feel like I've actually made a small difference in a few peoples lives because of it
▶ No.33541
I've tried being a switch before in a previous relationship. I felt so awkward. The role of a caretaker is certainly not for me. I'm a certified little.
▶ No.33566
>>33530
MA…looking to relocate, though
▶ No.33569
>>33532
You sound like you'd be a great friend. I wish I knew more people like you.
▶ No.33570
>>33532
Do you provide cuddles and handholding?
▶ No.33671
>>33410
>play as 2 people at once. Both the cared for and care giver.
That's the kind of thing I think about too.
http://pastebin.com/KCbxa9ML
▶ No.33688
I can't be the only one who enjoys thinking about babying various girls from anime, particularly submissive lolis. It's a shame there isn't more discussion of that sort of thing. There's the 2D pictures thread, but I just want to talk about it without necessarily needing any pictures of them in diapers. Maybe I should just write short stories and post them somewhere.
For instance, I'm terribly disappointed by how few people have taken advantage of the aka-chan (meaning baby) abbreviation of Akari's name.
▶ No.33707
Feel like the time has gone and past for me to be a little since I never could find anyone into the fetish when I was younger.
▶ No.33723>>33724 >>33751
Is there a place around here for pics and discussion of DD/lg fantasies and relationships?
▶ No.33724>>33726 >>33751
>>33723
No, you go someplace with normies for that. We only discuss MD/lb relationships.
▶ No.33726>>33727 >>33728 >>33751
>>33724
>femdom
You're taste a shit.
▶ No.33727>>33744 >>33751
>>33726
kys normie
mommy doms have more nurturing love and tits
what do daddies have? every single daddy is just a horny dude with a pedo complex
▶ No.33728>>33744 >>33751
>>33726
woah woah now, don't you diss my autism. I also like DD/lb too, but DD/lg is cancer since all the normies wanna act like they're in a cg/l / bdsm relationship just because they call their bf "daddy" and act like a little brat all the time. Stick to littlespaceonline if you want a hugbox to discuss your normie views.
▶ No.33744>>33751
>>33727
>>33728
That's pretty pathetic and/or autistic. This board isn't your safe space where you can hide from the scary little girls. You certainly shouldn't come into the only DD thread on the board and then start crying that DD/lg relationships offend you.
▶ No.33745
No, I got into it because I want to feel loved, and I feel ever since I was young I was always forced to grow up too quickly. My parents used to sit me down at age 8 about how I needed to be successful growing up. Almost 20 years later and still doing school.
Never have worn a diaper though. I've always wished I could but no privacy.
▶ No.33751>>33754
>>33723
>>33724
>>33726
>>33727
>>33728
>>33728
>>33744
Pointless posting and wasted dubs. Sure, DD/lg has gone somewhat mainstream, but if it didn't you'd whine
>waaah my fetish is too weird
>waaah my fetish is too weird
>normalfags reeeeeeeeeeee
>waaah my fetish is too weird
>normalfags reeeeeeeeeeee
>waaah my fetish is too weird
>normalfags reeeeeeeeeeee
>waaah my fetish is too weird
>normalfags reeeeeeeeeeee
make up your mind
▶ No.33754
>>33751
There is about to be a severe round of spankings around here.
▶ No.33767>>33769 >>33788
>>33331 (OP)
Most definitely. It's not something I see people talk about a lot, many people who are into diapers to any degree seem to be interested in wearing them more than anything else. I was never personally invested in the fetish because I wanted to wear them. Initially I took an interest because they seemed perfect for some added domination/humiliation, which I used to be big into. That kink has since mellowed out and now that I've gotten older, the idea of being the caretaker in such a relationship seems much more appealing.
Having a little boy or girl, to take care of is something I often dream of and the interest has only intensified since I turned 30 and have started making more money than I can reasonably spend on myself. Unfortunately there are many factors that give me pause when I consider such a situation. Firstly there is the age gap, I'm a older than most and while I wouldn't mind engaging in such a relationship with someone younger than me, I don't want it to feel predatory. Secondly, I would want someone who is capable of being a responsible adult in their own time. Way too many people seem to be mentally or financially unstable or physically unfit, which is usually a sign that these people are not fit to take care of themselves and just want to coast along, leeching off of other people.
Finally, there's the fact that I have some expectations that some might consider harsh in such a relationship. Obviously everything must be mutually consensual, but I want a little who understands that when they are little, I'm the one in charge. I dictate playtime, feeding time and bedtime and if you're going to be a brat about it, I will punish you. I want them to have fun with it, but I want someone who will be cooperative as well.
I've met way too many fucking people who expect me to adhere to their every whim and do all the work while they sit around shitting themselves.
▶ No.33769>>33794
>>33767
>Finally, there's the fact that I have some expectations that some might consider harsh in such a relationship. Obviously everything must be mutually consensual, but I want a little who understands that when they are little, I'm the one in charge. I dictate playtime, feeding time and bedtime and if you're going to be a brat about it, I will punish you. I want them to have fun with it, but I want someone who will be cooperative as well.
Punishment is the whole reason to brat. Where if I'm feeling fussy, and want a spanking its much more fun to push the line and get corrected into being mommy or daddy's good little one.
▶ No.33788>>33790 >>33827 >>33831
>>33767
I get what you mean, ironically I have the exact same opposite experience
I only had one mommy experience in my life, the thing is, after just a few weeks, she started trying to push my boundaries, into sissy stuff, 24/7 and homosexual stuff, when I clearly stated her that I didn't have any kind of pushing or testing my hard limits nor I wanted to live my life as a little all the time since I like being and an adult most of the time and being little in small amounts is what makes it so precious and enjoyable, she intented to control my life completely, for me to quit my job or at least get a part-time job so I could spend more time at home just "playing", it was borderline cringey at that point, to many people that might sound like a dream come true I guess but to me it was plain psycho and disturbing, what if one day I woke up and she pulled a misery-thing on me breaking my feet? nope… nope, nope,nope
The same goes to being incontinent, I enjoy wetting myself on purpose but I would never commit myself to such hazardous and self-harming change to my body.
I wish I could find a partner who could understand that I am a little sometimes and I want them to join in, but I am an adult most of the time, an independent, working, responsible adult.
▶ No.33790
>>33788
Who is she and where can I meet her?
▶ No.33794>>33801
>>33769
Keep saying that after I've given you the belt.
▶ No.33801
>>33794
Once my eyes are filled with tears and a fresh diaper is taped around my stinging bottom, I know exactly the good little sissy I need to be. Striving for any nod of approval, and the feelings of bringing satisfaction to daddy or mommy are amplified.
I want to be good, but sometimes little just get fussy and can't ask for the correction I need. So I'll brat to let them know I need to be punished and be kept on track.
▶ No.33827>>33831 >>33842 >>33854
>>33788
It's a balancing act and unfortunately the pool of people interested in this sort of thing (both being little and being mommy/daddy) is pretty small to begin with. Not to mention that in my personal experience, the majority of people looking for something like that, are not people I would want to associate myself with for various reasons. Then there's the fact that it is nothing inherently sexual to me. I can't deny that the desire to act as a caretaker probably stems from my prior experiences with domination, but currently my feelings about it are similar to >>33532
I'm heterosexual, but I wouldn't mind playing caretaker for a man for example, but where would that leave our relationship outside of the ageplay? I have no sexual interest in men, so in my ideal scenario, we would be friends and I'd want to be able to just come together as friends and share a beer and talk about things, as well as maintaining our relationship as little/caretaker when we felt like it. Same goes for women, though I'm not even sure I'd want a romantic relationship with a woman that I would also indulge in this kind of thing. As I said, I wouldn't mind playing caretaker for a woman either, but where would it leave us outside of that relationship?
Thoughts like this always stop me from pursuing this kind of thing, because not only is the overall pool of people interested very small, but the pool of people that I would be willing to go through with this for, within that first group, is even smaller. So instead I end up sitting here, venting my frustrations on an anonymous imageboard, as I browse through catalogues of pull-ups, diapers and nighttime diapers, plastic pants, onesies and clothes that I think are cute. And I think to myself one day I will actually have a reason to buy this stuff.
▶ No.33831>>33842 >>33877
>>33827
>>33788 here I get what you mean, I have only come across one mommy into this and she was crazy, now I fear all mommies might be like that so I keep away from the scene to gather my thoughts and decide what I want to do in life. I considered once having a daddy but at the same time I struggled with myself for years regarding if I considered sexual or non-sexual my littleness and after a lot of denying I came to terms to that, if after cumming I immediately loose my little mindset, I definitely I am a sexually-driven little. However, when I am in little space I want to remain in little space and the fact that I can orgasm and be kicked out of it creates such a stress for me that I want to put it away of my thoughts and simply be little, but its there, in the background of my mind, driving my little persona. Since I dont like men, it would definitely have a negative impact in my being little experience while having a male caretaker I believe, just awkward, weird and clumsy interactions that would definitely would prove to be dissappointing for both of us… and regarding the whole "maintaining a non-sexual relationship with a little" that could be weird yeah but at the same time, like, first you are chilling having a beer and watching the game together, discussing politics and then suddenly you're changing his diaper and giving them their teddy while you whipe their bum, I dont know, where do you draw the line? I guess its a very personal thing. I feel there are more non-sexual girls than boys so maybe you have luck looking for a girl who's not looking for a partner just a daddy to play non-sexually with.
Its just the "right" amount of crazy we're after, that's the prize I suppose, anything in between will prove unsatisfactory and dissappointing I guess.
I wish you good luck in your _little_ hunt annon.
sorry for the ramblings in the middle, dont have time to elaborate much, running late for work xD
▶ No.33842
>>33827
>>33831
The only normal /abdl/'s are on 8chan :^)
▶ No.33854>>33877
>>33331 (OP)
Honestly I considered trying to do this for money once. I'm trans and was talking to one guy about possibly babysitting but i got cold feet. Mostly wanted to do it because I wanted to give someone the type of experience I want.
A year and a half later and I still have not been a caregiver, mostly just think I'd be too awkward at it plus I like being little way more.
>>33827
Also Anon that kind of set up would probably be more agreeable then you think. A lot more littles are taking a more non-sexual route. I would love to find myself in a scenario like that, just someone I can be friends with and have that care taker/little relationship with.
It would be a neat dynamic, I dislike dating and sex always seems kinda boring to me. Be nice to indulge in just relaxing and letting go where your free to just be little, care free, loved. I bet if you put out a craigslist ad in your area you'd probably find someone looking for that, I sincerely believe its not as rare as you think.
▶ No.33872>>33877 >>33880
I've kinda forced myself to be more sociable with this fetish. Meaning I've been going to more events/munches, met people and some are crazy, others are chill but have issues. It really is the normal people are the ones you don't know very well.
I have come across people that make me question my own sanity or even if its worth it to try to meet people. Most seem broken in some way, with abdulia being the pinnacle of batshit crazy people. The drama and stories that come out of that shitfest is astounding, and thats with people vouching for others. So like i can only imagine who attends these cons and junk.
▶ No.33877>>34026
>>33831
> first you are chilling having a beer and watching the game together, discussing politics and then suddenly you're changing his diaper and giving them their teddy while you whipe their bum, I dont know, where do you draw the line?
In my head we would schedule little time so it wouldn't end up like what you're describing. If we got together to watch the game, that's what we'd be doing that night and if we got together for a weekend to daddy/little, then that's what we'd be doing that weekend. I don't really want to mix them on the same visit, you know? But yeah, I concede it's a pretty specific wish that I have.
>>33854
>I bet if you put out a craigslist ad in your area you'd probably find someone looking for that, I sincerely believe its not as rare as you think.
I have done so and you're right, I actually get a fair few people approaching me, the problem is that they almost always want to re-negotiate the deal and I'm not really interested in what they propose. I'm willing to budge on certain things, but usually what they suggest is too different from what I want. That being said, I'm currently in contact with a young man who is a little, but is also interested in just straight up renting a room in the house because he recently found work in my area. He seems like a decent candidate so far. Meeting him in person this weekend to talk about some things and get a general impression.
>>33872
>I have come across people that make me question my own sanity or even if its worth it to try to meet people.
I hear you friend, there have been multiple occasions over the past five years where I've considered throwing in the towel. I hope you've had some good experiences too and it hasn't been all bad.
▶ No.33880
>>33872
>The drama and stories that come out of that shitfest is astounding, and thats with people vouching for others.
That's the furry community for you.
▶ No.33881
>>33331 (OP)
I never was into it before my bf called me mommy one time, and revealed that he had wanted to call me that since day one. I had jokingly called myself his mommy before, since he's quite childish (likes toys and shapes and whatnot, emotional) and I've always felt like I wanted to take care of him and give him the support he seriously lacks, plus he's had a rough life and his actual mother is sort of a cunt. After he called me mommy and I started considering it, I realized it really floated my boat. It usually stays in AB territory.
I suppose we have a strange dynamic, he's a switch and I'm more of a sub, I'm almost 40cm shorter than him and a year older than him. Most of the time I'm mommy, but when I'm upset we revert it back to him being the daddy.
▶ No.34026>>37353
>>33877
Hope your meet up went well
▶ No.34298>>34321
I'm actually at the stage I'm growing out of the fetish, even can't be bothered being a dom.
▶ No.34321>>34329
>>34298
I thought I was growing out of it, loosing interest, then I received my stupid onesies and pacis and everything changed, if I ever imagined the chance of being a daddy its way gone now. I'm stuck with this, as a little.
▶ No.34329>>34336 >>34341
>>34321
You're my favorite type of baby. A sweet little baby boy that wanted to be big and never ever will be. :)
▶ No.34341>>34342
>>34329
Heck I'm not even that anon and you made me all blushy and small.
▶ No.34342>>34351
>>34336
>>34341
you silly baabies, bet you're both wet right now without even realising, aren't you?
▶ No.34351
>>34342
You're the anon that posted "You've got two baby anons to take care of now" in the "Next Pic Your New Life" thread aren't you?
▶ No.36222>>37388
▶ No.36945
>Try finding subs in Scotland near Glasgow
>Nobody actually nearby or easy to get to realistically
▶ No.37009>>37012
>Tuck my little into bed, give them a kiss tonight and tell them it's bedtime
>Leave door slightly open so hall light shines in
>Come back half an hour later and quietly peak in
>See little playing on their phone
What do anon?
▶ No.37012
>>37009
That sounds like prime punishment time anon
▶ No.37353>>37413
>>34026
Thank you anon, I know you probably won't read this considering I am almost two months late with my response, but I appreciate your nice thoughts.
The truth of the matter is that I haven't really been frequenting my usual websites at all since I got myself a new housemate. He has turned out to be exactly what I was looking for in both a housemate and a little. He works full-time, pays his rent on time and likes to cook, the latter part being a big deal for me because I love to cook myself and to sit down and share a meal with people. He's in good health, good shape and he takes care to maintain his body (In stark contrast to some other people I've interacted with in this fetish). Overall, he's a very pleasant and responsible adult and I'm happy to share my home with him.
The icing on the cake is that he has been totally cool with trying out my style of caretaking. I knew he was a little from the beginning and he knew that I had experience with playing daddy/caretaker, but I never expected us to click so well. He's been very open and honest about what he wanted out of it and totally receptive to my wishes as well. He was quick to suggest that we just give it a try and it has been absolutely fantastic. We've only gotten into it over two weekends so far, but considering he has been living here for a little less than two months, that's more than enough for me.
After years of failed attempts, it seems I might have found something good.
▶ No.37388
▶ No.37413>>37598
>>37353
Any particularly fun stories from your two play dates? That kind of thing seems like an impossible dream, so it'd be interesting to hear how it works. Glad things have worked out so well for you.
▶ No.37598
>>37413
I would be lying if I said it wasn't awkward at first, but he has indulged in this sort of things many times in the past and as such he was pretty good at guiding me along. I was very worried about overstepping any boundaries, but it was all fairly relaxed once we got into it. He had a bunch of "little" stuff himself, including diapers, clothes and toys, so all I really had to do was be there to act the adult. He was also good at stating specifically what he was looking for from the experience and how he wanted me to treat him. He wasn't into physical punishment of any kind for example, but he would be fine with me being firm with him and verbalizing what he should do. He told me that being in diapers was also not something inherently sexual to him, but rather something he enjoyed indulging in to unwind and relax.
Once those parameters were established, I pretty much just took the reigns and gave it a shot. Got him in a diaper, got him dressed in more appropriate clothes and then let him play with his toys. He pretty much took care of himself until lunchtime. I checked on him a few times to make sure everything was alright, but that was about it. He ate his own lunch, though I had cut it up a bit so he could chow down with just a fork and then I had him lie down in front of the TV for a nap and when he woke up we played some board games and read a book until I had to get up and prepare dinner. After dinner I changed his diaper and put him in his PJs, we then watched a couple of movies until around 10PM when he started dozing off and I decided to put him to bed.
The next morning we were back to normal. He was happy with the experience and so was I.
Like I said, it was all very relaxed.
▶ No.37605
Anyone ever find themselves being treated like a child by a close friend at all?
▶ No.37626>>37643 >>37645
Suppose this thread is better than any for this. I feel somewhat in the middle if that makes any sense to anyone? I don't want to be the "baby" but I don't want to be the parent either. I'd rather be the older sibling who teases and bullies a little loli or shota for still needing diapers, then play all innocent in front of mommy and daddy when questioned.
▶ No.37643>>37644 >>37645
>>37626
>teases and bullies
my kinda sibling
▶ No.37644>>37648
>>37643
Do you want me to bully you baby?
▶ No.37645>>37646 >>37726
>>37626
>>37643
My niggas.
I've actually come to enjoy seeing cute girls get teased and bullied far more than I enjoy wearing diapers myself.
▶ No.37646>>37655
>>37645
I think we need a bully thread. Before mommyanon comes in and spanks us all
▶ No.37648>>37649
▶ No.37649>>37652
>>37648
Really? You sure look like one!
RP thread?
▶ No.37652>>37655
>>37649
no i don't! i'm wearing pants over it!
▶ No.37655
>>37652
Training pants more like it
>>37646
Bully thread is up, took me a while cause internet is a bitch. Don't have many images to dump cause I haven't sorted my image folder out in a long time. Like seriously I need to sort that shit, got something like 3,000 images unsorted
▶ No.37726
>>37645
And there's nothing better than reminding a bully of the time when they needed to wear diapers and that they may be getting a reminder.
▶ No.38180
A little contacted me from another place asking for some caretaking. Was really nice to be needed at the start - then he just disappeared. Oh well…always happens.
▶ No.38189
>>33400
Like the other threads say, find a girl who is failr submissive and not a field hockey wife, then introduce her to the fetish
▶ No.38310>>38313 >>38344 >>38355 >>38412
Pretty much. Due to complications, I can't give birth and I'm years away from adopting so this is the only way I can feel like a parent I guess.
I'm not into sexual play at all though and being a mommy I'm pretty much swamped with the guys wanting to suck titties and be jerked off. Kinda ruins it all.
▶ No.38313>>38314 >>38344
>>38310
Do you prefer cuddles and handholding to sex? Cause I feel the same way
▶ No.38314>>38315 >>38344
>>38313
I wouldn't have sex with my little at all unless feelings and a romantic relationship were to develop. Until then it's more strictly roleplay I'd be after, besides, what diaper wearing baby knows how to have sex?
▶ No.38315
>>38314
A little trying to have sex is a one way trip for them to a sore bottom.
▶ No.38344
>>38310
>>38313
>>38314
>would be happy to just be loved and be a baby
>will likely never experience this cause no abdl's near where I live.
Life is truly suffering.
▶ No.38355
>>38310
>mfw only experience close to getting a domme was with a girl into sissy and sexual play
I had to stop seeing her because she was too aggresive and I couldnt deal with that.
I feel awkward and uncomfortable with sexual little play because of abuse and lack of innocent love.
I guess I understand were you come from anon.
▶ No.38412
▶ No.40009
I don't suppose any of you paternal types live in Australia?
▶ No.40041>>40042
I feel like I need someone like this if I'm ever going to go into ABDL. I don't want sex, I want affection. I like looking cute and cute outfits, but everyone I find doesn't appreciate that and just wants to fuck. I don't mind minor sexual stuff, but full on sex is what I don't really want yet this is what everyone else wants.
▶ No.40042>>40043 >>40047
>>40041
Literally me. I feel guilty getting involved with any vanilla relationships because sex doesn't interest me at all, so I know my partner will be left unfulfilled. I'd rather just cuddle like an innocent little boy, but the only one getting enjoyment out of that would be me.
▶ No.40043>>40047
>>40042
It hurts so much more being a boy too. Girls want to be fucked, guys want to fuck me. I just want cuddles. I don't mind some sexual stuff, that's not an issue, just I don't want the actual act of sex. And people like me are seen as weird because of this. It's going to be a really lonely life.
▶ No.40047>>40068
>>40042
>>40043
You could always cuddle a toddler
▶ No.40069>>40076
>>40068
Pedofags are far less annoying than the normalfags who respond to them with outrage and internet-tough-guy threats.
Especially when they don't fucking sage.
▶ No.40076
>>40069
Sometimes I wonder if tfwqtp2tlgf=^3 is the BO trolling us