/a/ - Animu & Mango

I think the mistake you're making is that you think rival characters are shit just because you exclusively watch shit anime.

I kinda liked Keisuke vs Takumi in Initial D.

For the longest time I fucking hated edgy stuff, I couldn't deal with it. I remember when Shadow the Hedgehog came out, I think that was edge production was at its peak and it pissed me off. But nowadays I can't help but like edgy tryhards a lot. They're funny, I think it's fun stuff, I learned to embrace the edge and just not take it seriously.

>He's never watched Legend of the Galactic Heroes

Anon. Go ahead and binge the whole 108 episodes. Don't watch that bullshit that came out last season until you do. If you want to see a good series of rivals, that show has them in spades.

>Not showing All Mights rival instead of shit Bakugou

Rival relationships always fail because they're not between a boy and a girl.

The subtextual gayness always ruins it, this can easily be fixed by one character being the opposite gender.

Prove me wrong, you literally can't.

>>862054

>Implying there are EVER homosexuals in ANY anime that's not an anime about gays being gay, much less where it's both the protag and his rival

It's completely irrelevant for you to even say this, because there is never a time when it's been possible in the first place.

Rival characters have a defined purpose, that is to highlight and contrast the main character. If the main character is nice, the rival character is mean. If the main character is a fag who doesn't want to win, then the rival character wants to win and so on. That is why Vegeta is infinitely better than Goku since Vegeta fights for his race and Goku fights for nothing except hedonistic pleasure.

>>862054

Just because two people dislike each other it does not mean they are attracted to one another

In fact, despite what shippers will tell you, it's usually the opposite

>>862054

>The subtextual gayness always ruins it

Nigger, stop hallucinating shit that isn't there. "Subtext gayness" is, more often than not, something completely imagined either by faggots or fujoshit. If you're seeing "subtext gayness" in every male vs male rivalry then maybe you need to take a look at yourself and rethink some things.

Even in completely fruity rivalries like in Naruto where it ends with Naruto and Sasuke metaphorically holding hands after they lose their arms it isn't "subtext gayness", it's not homosexuality, that was never the intention and anyone who sees any of that there is just projecting.

Your posts says a lot about you and you probably don't even realize it.

>>862086

>Dio isn't a rival, he's a straight up villain.

>Spends the majority of his youth competing with Jojo to be better than him and overcome him,recognizing him as an equal throughout the run

>He's not a rival because he's a villain and characters can't be two things

>Well these other characters who are rivals are fine, I just hate this specific niche of rival characters, because they're bad people and bad people are bad characters, especially if they aren't always doing bad things

Right then, as I was saying, you're an autistic fag, where's the lie?

>>862100

That was a complete joke, three episodes in when the series was still in it's "kiddie humor" phase. And saying they both reacted negatively to it would be the understatement of the century.

>>862000

To condemn characters who have slaughtered "innocents" like Vegeta is no different than Americans condemning their ancestors for geocoding the Amerindians, or the Greeks' slaughter of the Trojans. Is Achilles a bad person because he killed Hector who was only trying to protect his people? He isn't by the sheer fact that he is revered to the point of emulation. Hell, Heracles killed a bunch of people unprovoked; he killed the brother of Iole, simply because their father refused to give her to him in marriage despite promising to reward him with anything, and this is one story, the other is that it was an accident. He would later sack the city and take Iole as a concubinary slave. Again, Heracles was deified and worshipped, like other heroes of Greek myth. So on and so forth. The squeamishness that characters who killed are somehow tainted is humanistic tripe that you should have expunged by now.

>>862000

Vegeta was the one of the worst things to happen to Dragon Ball next to DBS.

>>862144

>Dragon Ball however, where the main character fights to resurrect everyone who has been hurt on both planets the conflict happens, ignoring Vegeta's crimes seems ridiculous and out of place.

Stop watching English dubs, the foreign dubded versions of DBZ added lots of heroic characteristics to Goku which he never possessed in the original.

Goku sparing Vegeta fits his character perfectly.

>>862149

>Stop watching English dubs, the foreign dubded versions of DBZ added lots of heroic characteristics to Goku which he never possessed in the original.

No stop. Goku was never like that until Toriyama started to retroactively attribute characteristics of Goku to his Saiyan heritage.

>Goku sparing Vegeta fits his character perfectly.

He just doesn't kill in cold blood. We was going to spare Tao Pai Pai when he surrender. He was really conflicted about giving Frieza his energy so I'm not going attribute it to his desire for a rematch.

>>862144

There was a great pair of filler episodes in the 1999 HxH anime where this random chick tries to off Killua because he killed her father. He explains that her father was not a kindly merchant as she thought, but a corrupt mob leader that sold addictive drugs, adding the wham-line: "Nice people don't get assassination contracts put on their heads". Now, whether this aligns with reality doesn't matter, because it works in-universe as the Zoldycks are ludicrously expensive to hire. Of course, this begs the question of why they or anyone else in canon would even bother with the Zoldycks to assassinate someone who isn't protected with nen-using bodyguards, seeing how Killua wouldn't be able to handle it if it were the case. But that's an entirely different plot-hole.

As for Vegeta in regards to how Goku treats him, it has a lot to do with Goku being myopic about past events and very literal. Vegeta never really kills any innocent people during his time that Goku knew him. Him ordering Nappa to kill people doesn't count. After leaving Earth, he went straight to rebelling against Frieza which meant no more genociding planets. Was he still an asshole? Oh sure, but not a straight-up murderer anymore.

>The problem is not the character, but in the way the story bends itself backwards to include them

Fun fact: Kishimoto was convinced by an editor to include a rival character, prompting the creation of Sasuke. If you think about it, removing him ENTIRELY from the story (and any associated Uchiha nonsense) actually changes nothing up until the conclusion of the Pain Arc. So I've long suspected that Kishimoto actually planned out the entire plot to that point, but Sasuke's existence messed everything up. If you think about it, it's the perfect conclusion to Naruto's character arc; after that point (aka the war arc) is when things really become a clusterfuck, when there's new villains popping up out of nowhere, when the power-levels go through the fucking roof, when all the resurrection and reincarnation nonsense happens. Everything before then was perfectly grounded and reasonable. But Sasuke fucked it all up and caused the manga to spiral out of control.

>>862169

1. This is an imageboard, you're supposed to have your own opinions and not just spread and promote the opinions of random e-celebs that you follow.

2. Said e-celeb isn't an authority on Dragon Ball, and him doing a psychoanalysis on Toriyama to justify that the latter parts of DB don't fit his character intepretations is ridiculous.

3. One of his big arguments is an if, if x happened then Goku would have acted this way. It doesn't have anything to do with the story Toriyama wrote, but with Fusion's head canon.

4. He is stating untruths, the first time Goku acts against Buruma is when she wanted the Suuchinchuu, not when he helps the turtle.

>>862182

>Of course, this begs the question of why they or anyone else in canon would even bother with the Zoldycks to assassinate someone who isn't protected with nen-using bodyguards, seeing how Killua wouldn't be able to handle it if it were the case. But that's an entirely different plot-hole

That just might be one of the cheap jobs. Or someone with too much money to burn really wanted this guy dead and the Zoldycks went and gave the job to Killua since it was beneath Zeno, Silva or Illumi. I think even the fat otaku can do jobs but he mostly uses poisons and it's not really his forte.

>>862189

>1. This is an imageboard, you're supposed to have your own opinions and not just spread and promote the opinions of random e-celebs that you follow.

The same could be said about spreading the Goku is selfish meme. Besides, I added my own opinion that Goku doesn't like the idea of killing in cold blood.

>2. Said e-celeb isn't an authority on Dragon Ball, and him doing a psychoanalysis on Toriyama to justify that the latter parts of DB don't fit his character intepretations is ridiculous.

Neither are all of the other fucking YouTubers that grew their fucking channels on DBS hype. Do you think some asshole that makes shitty speculation videos on DBS is going ever admit that DBS is shit? Also, Toriyama doesn't have good track record of remembering his own canon. Do you believe everything that they tell you? Do you believe that Toriyama always intended for the Potara earrings to be temporary under normal circumstances?

>3. One of his big arguments is an if, if x happened then Goku would have acted this way. It doesn't have anything to do with the story Toriyama wrote, but with Fusion's head canon.

This is the hill that you want to die on? Characters can't have consistent characteristics or everything written by the creator is consistent by virtue of being written by the creator?

>4. He is stating untruths, the first time Goku acts against Buruma is when she wanted the Suuchinchuu, not when he helps the turtle.

It doesn't change the fact that Goku didn't help the turtle for selfish reasons.

People forget that Goku was a literal retard. He doesn't normally think of the long term consequences. Also, you didn't answer to my response about Goku giving Frieza his energy. Was that because he wanted a fucking rematch? The guy that killed his best friend and got him so angry that his hair turn blonde? Vegeta really changed the tone of the series to blah blah blah Saiyan pride.

>>862132

>it's ok to kill innocents if people like you for it

Why not say there are no villains just unpopular people?

>>862283

>The same could be said about spreading the Goku is selfish meme.

Tell me where did I promote a Youtuber? I am not the one posting e-celeb videos.

>Neither are all of the other fucking YouTubers that grew their fucking channels on DBS hype.

True, and? I never cited any e-celeb for my arguements. My intepretation of Goku is basicially the standart intepretation in Japan, and the one Toriyama considers true.

>This is the hill that you want to die on? Characters can't have consistent characteristics or everything written by the creator is consistent by virtue of being written by the creator?

That has nothing to do with what I have said.

>It doesn't change the fact that Goku didn't help the turtle for selfish reasons.

That's true, but helping an animal in need doesn't make Goku heroic.

>you didn't answer to my response about Goku giving Frieza his energy.

I agree that Goku doesn't kill in cold bold.

But not being a cold blooded murderer, doesn't mean that Goku is a hero.

Freeza is a tyrant, showed no signs of improving, and Goku still wanted to spar him.

Goku was never a hero, he never went out of his way to protect innocents or beat evil, and he made selfish decisions that risked the lifes of billions.

>Goku was a literal retard. He doesn't normally think of the long term consequences

> At no point does Goku remind Vegeta of the planets he conquered

That's true, then why do you think that Goku is the type of character to preach to Vegeta about his misdeeds?

Goku not giving a fuck about Vegeta's genocides is in character for Goku.

I also agree that Vegeta is a terrible rival and character, but that isn't because of how Goku interacts with him.

>>862000

>rivals suck

>posts Bakugo

Objectively wrong

>>862359

>True, and? I never cited any e-celeb for my arguements. My intepretation of Goku is basicially the standart intepretation in Japan, and the one Toriyama considers true.

Toriyama said a lot of things. It is called covering your ass. The plot demanded that he acted a certain way especially with DBS.

>That has nothing to do with what I have said.

That is because you said nothing of substance.

>That's true, but helping an animal in need doesn't make Goku heroic.

It doesn't make him heroic but he isn't selfish.

>But not being a cold blooded murderer, doesn't mean that Goku is a hero.

And that is my more reasonable explanation of why he spared Vegeta.

>Freeza is a tyrant, showed no signs of improving, and Goku still wanted to spar him.

>spar him

I'm guessing that you mean spare him but he didn't spare him out of a selfish desire to fight him again like you faggots like to imply.

>Goku was never a hero, he never went out of his way to protect innocents or beat evil, and he made selfish decisions that risked the lifes of billions.

>never went out of his way to protect innocents or beat evil

I'm guessing that you never watched the original Dragon Ball where he went out his way to gather the dragon balls to revive someone that he just met.

>That's true, then why do you think that Goku is the type of character to preach to Vegeta about his misdeeds?

Different anon. Also, Goku being a fucking retard explains his actions better than your memeing.

Also, spell check your post, faggot.

>>862054

>If characters hate each other, it means they secretly want to fuck.

No getting around it, this is fujoshi logic.

>>862351

>>It's ok to kill innocents if people like you for it

>Why not say there are no villains just unpopular people?

I wouldn't say that that's my argument. It's more that people never used to focus on the flaws or heinousness of someone, be they a mythological character or historical figure to the extent they do now, outside of tragedy, that is. the Greek worshipped the heroes of Troy as semi-divine figures—Diomedes, one of the Greeks who fought in the Trojan war, for example, was apotheosized and a cult formed around him. Not until universal morality took hold did this judging of every act on a scale of morality occur so rankly, which is to say, the last hundred years. Now for the Trojans, Achilles probably was a villain and Odysseus as well because they participated in the sacking of their city and slaying of their people. It just don't think argument's worth the candle.

>>862373

>Upa's father fought to protect Goku and the holy land, he said that he would protect Goku because Goku saved his son.

Boo hoo what is your point? You said that he never gone out his way to help people yet he carried the turtle back.

>he made selfish decisions that risked the lifes of billions.

He made a stupid decision that risked the lives of billions. Saying that sparing Frieza was a selfish decision implies that it was a decision that he was planning on benefitting from.

>Reread the manga, Goku states that he wants Vegeta to be spared so he can fight him again.

It was mostly an excuse to keep Vegeta alive for the next arc and force this gayass rivalry.

>>862376

>Then why do you start a discussion about Goku being a hero?

I didn't. It was a different anon. Goku isn't a hero in a Superman sense. He isn't exactly supposed to be a role model but he is overall heroic.

Toriyama's interview makes Goku sound like an edgelord.

<At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result.

Rivals spring to the fron when the MC sucks so terribly that even a piece of shit looks better.

Also, Bakugo a great character.

>>862376

Why didn't Kuririn kill him then? I don't buy for a second that he would let vegeta because goku said he wanted to fight him again, it's pretty bad writing

>>862421

Toriyama has always been easily influenced, if I remember correctly he brought Freeza back beause of the f song.