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File: 7e8b86cfaf0dc69⋯.jpg (136.53 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, fate-e28184-zero11-08[1].jpg)

 No.804197

Was this the best scene in Fate?

 No.804199

File: b417188a067eb88⋯.png (634.64 KB, 800x600, 4:3, ClipboardImage.png)

Nope.


 No.804201

File: d772afd61388a0c⋯.png (886.65 KB, 862x747, 862:747, 1498974095944.png)

File: fad0e4d77193406⋯.jpg (28.57 KB, 290x303, 290:303, 1499090118158.jpg)

File: ec65dc80b62b0b5⋯.png (272.57 KB, 557x605, 557:605, lance.png)

Anything with lance screaming loudly is the best scene


 No.804204

File: a793380e7bbbfe6⋯.jpg (218.27 KB, 800x600, 4:3, 1434940497553.jpg)

File: ff16501359de85b⋯.png (673.55 KB, 802x600, 401:300, 1416709609842.png)

File: cba7190be9b4a51⋯.jpg (156.29 KB, 640x744, 80:93, 1417381577294.jpg)

Nah.


 No.804220

>>804197

>Zerotard actually thinks Urobuchi's LETS SHIT ON ARTHURIA FOR ALL THE NONSENSICAL REASONS I CAN THINK ABOUT is actually a good scene

Sasuga Zerotards.


 No.804226

File: 32d303fdb261c7c⋯.jpg (42.93 KB, 650x720, 65:72, kate starry night.jpg)

>F/Z

>Saber holds delusional wish about redoing her life

>get told by rider

>exposes Saber as the selfish cunt she is

>F/SN

>Saber still wants to fulfill her wish

Saber worst servant ever


 No.804227

>>804226

>get told by rider

As I remember it, the argument was all sentiment and no logic.

>selfish cunt

She failed at her job, wants someone else to have a go at doing better. Hardly selfish, and a long way from being a selfish cunt.


 No.804228

>>804197

The scene itself would have been a lot better (disregarding the rest of the story) if instead of Assassin entering stage left, Saber Alter walked in and added her two cents to the debate. The potential character interactions would be gold.


 No.804229

File: 557924ecc1d23b1⋯.png (302.65 KB, 783x753, 261:251, ClipboardImage.png)

Posting best girl.


 No.804237

>>804197

Yes

>>804199

Biggest POS moment in the franchise


 No.804239

What if the next holy grail war is a televised wrestling PPV?


 No.804241

>>804239

Cute girls wrestling is my fetish.


 No.804243

>>804239

FGO is basically that.


 No.804256

File: 5d299bece027f1b⋯.jpg (71.62 KB, 800x600, 4:3, No, You KEEP UP WITH ME!.jpg)

>>804197

Nah, brah. Not even close.


 No.804258

File: 22c43e5d13515a4⋯.jpg (524.59 KB, 1364x768, 341:192, urobuchi5.jpg)

File: eb344f0951a8dfd⋯.png (379.84 KB, 904x2448, 113:306, urobuchi fz postface.png)

>>804226

In F/Z she wanted to re-do her life, but then because of all the bullying it changed to "there must have been someone else more suited to the job".

Ultimately, there isn't. The EX-rank Clairvoyant set everything up and regardless of who pulls Caliburn it will always end the same way because Caliburn only works for a "perfect king". We see this with how Lily in FGO has a bunch of likes, dislikes, dreams and a lot of personality in general while Saber is stoic and all about her job. Alter is just that taken to it's extreme; pure "the ends justify the means"-mentality. It's demonstrated at the end of FZ, where she wants the grail above else and begins to get the yellow eyes.

>>804220

Urobuchi actually probably quite likes Saber. Some excerpts from the FZ postface by Uro in the pic for more details.

>tl;dr

>Urobuchi fucking loves Fate and punched Saber as hard as he could because the lower she went the greater her salvation in Fate would become retroactively

"This book of mine, that wasted the entirety of more than one thousand and four hundred pages of paper for the sake of shouting out ‘I love Fate’, is now respectfully set before you."

T. Gen Urobuchi


 No.804320

File: b4e8883fe2a02d3⋯.png (1.83 MB, 800x2400, 1:3, 1362930943686.png)


 No.804440

Am I the only one who think Heavens Feel is a shit route?

The only good thing about it is the Kotomine vs. Shirou fight.


 No.804446

>>804440

Shit route for a shit wormslut waifu.


 No.804450

File: 14fcf88c5cd8ebb⋯.png (2.13 MB, 800x2400, 1:3, shirou ilya qq 62035.png)

File: 53238d8639bd104⋯.jpg (125.9 KB, 733x483, 733:483, shirou ilya 1323333421351.jpg)

>>804440

While it is a thematic climax and has the highest stakes, it is not without its faults. Zouken comes out of left field leaving you wondering "where was this guy all along in the other routes...?", Servants are killed left right and center to make room for new threats and unknowns, the pacing is all over the place and the thematic whiplash is enough to alienate a good portion of the readers.

I still like it fine.


 No.804457

>>804450

>"where was this guy all along in the other routes...?"

Stayed at home, didn't see any noteworthy opportunities until Heavens Feel route. That was my impression when I read/played it anyway.

And it makes sense for there to to be more than Shinji and Sakura to the house of Matou.

>the thematic whiplash is enough to alienate a good portion of the readers

>the thematic whiplash is enough to alienate a good portion of the readers.

Felt more like a thematic progression. Fate-route was all idealism, UBW challenged the premise of heroism but reaffirmed the ideal, and UBW completely inverted the essential heroic rule of sacrificing one's own interests for the greater good.


 No.804458

>>804457

*that whole fucking post

Look, I'm... I'm just going to go to bed.


 No.804467

File: 1c991fb210e6c7f⋯.jpg (97.99 KB, 800x600, 4:3, Mind of Steel.jpg)

>>804457

>And it makes sense for there to to be more than Shinji and Sakura to the house of Matou.

Not really, since Shirou, Illya and Rin set the trend of "they're alone in the HGW", Zouken existence is thus an inversion. Overall, he should have been introduced in Fate/the first three days and then forgotten entirely for the groundwork.

>Felt more like a thematic progression.

Please read my whole post.

>>804450 ">While it is a thematic climax"

As I addressed that very specific thing at the very beginning of my previous post.

But the thing is that it is a different thing from how people perceive and understand it. There exist a great schism between those who like HF and those who didn't, because it went in an entirely different direction. Hence, thematic whiplash. See, how many will often respond to HF endings with

>"HF Good? You mean Mind of Steel, amirite?"

etc. or these pictures here >>804450 >>804320 or that old outcry for an Illya route?


 No.804496

File: 363c3d16c24c8dd⋯.jpg (50.02 KB, 640x480, 4:3, protecting your smile.jpg)

>>804204

http://fsn.seorinwastaken.com/index.php?v=180

The whole scene-set from The Final Enemy to At the End of a Miracle is amazing. Some of the shit in the later half of F/GO is almost as cool, but overall just doesn't manage to come close.

>>804467

>>804457

If Zouken isn't present, things make even less sense. You find out in Fate and UBW that Shinji is a Master, but that he's a shitty Master with no magical aptitude who uses a book (the Book of the False Attendant) to use magic (and shitty magic at that, enough that Shirou can brute force his way past it) and to maintain command seals for Rider. He is the only person who does this - even Soichirou has normal command seals on his hand.

Then there's the fact that you know he's a shit-bag, but he wasn't always as much of a shit-bag: something happened. You also know Rin has an interest in Sakura, and that they sort of know who each other are despite not really talking. There's the fact that Gil was talking to Sakura at the start - but Shinji would never meet him until much later. There's a lot of weird shit surrounding the Matou house that never gets any explanation - Zouken's not so much out of left field, but an answer to all of those lingering questions.

It's not so much thematic whiplash either, unless you're one of those faggots who subscribe to the faggot argument that HF Normal is the true ending. The death-count isn't even higher, unless you count the faceless NPCs (and a lot of people were dying in the earlier routes too thanks to Caster's "gas leaks", just off-screen) - Servants just start to die off a lot earlier. Which makes sense, since it's the Master-oriented route. But overall, everything is just a progression of what was established earlier in the VN. The jump from Fate -> HF is definitely big, but from UBW -> HF is no more than from Fate -> UBW.


 No.804506

>>804467

>Shirou, Illya and Rin

But it was also established that they all had guardians (or something). Shirou had Taiga, Rin had Kotomine, and Ilya's family sent a couple of homunculus maids with her while they stayed at home.

>>804496

This too.


 No.804515

File: fbe3edcba1e631b⋯.png (495.98 KB, 1019x404, 1019:404, hf vs ubw 2.png)

File: 255be02202e9888⋯.mp4 (3.86 MB, 854x480, 427:240, plot of heaven's feel.mp4)

>>804496

>Book of the False Attendant

Changes nothing, though.

Shinji explains that he's well versed in the grail wars due to his family's heritage and we're shown him with more than one Servant, despite lacking command seals. Hell, he has Rider attack people specifically because there is a lack of sufficient support for the Servant. So him running solo makes more sense than having Zouken gotten the show rolling for Shinji. Moreover, Shinji running to Kotomine in UBW contradicts his behavior in HF, where he relies on Zouken as seen when Rider gets BTFO the first time.

>but he wasn't always as much of a shit-bag

Which is most easily tied to Sakura drawing closer to Shirou. The set up in Fate shows Shinji being envious and spiteful towards Shirou having everything he doesn't; Sakura, magic circuits, being close to Tohsaka etc.

>Zouken's not so much out of left field, but an answer to all of those lingering questions.

I'm not saying that his existence is impossible or that it wasn't hinted at, but that it was completely aberrant with the other route's set up. Shinji is quite clear about the Matou family being washed out and never goes for Zouken in Fate or UBW, despite doing so in HF etc.

>It's not so much thematic whiplash either

And yet among the people who have read the VN, the split is clear as day. A great deal of people absolutely loathe HF, while others preferring Mind of Steel despite the obvious shortcomings. If that isn't the result of a thematic whiplash, then what is it?

>subscribe to the faggot argument that HF Normal is the true ending

What? Though, it is the obligatory ending though.

>The jump from Fate -> HF is definitely big, but from UBW -> HF is no more than from Fate -> UBW.

That's not how it works, though. Fate is the premise while UBW and HF are the conclusion; they both stem from Fate and are opposite conclusions to the dilemma presented, running parallel. Which is why the line in the sand is always drawn between those two routes, not between Fate and whatever.

>>804506

I even specified that it was in the HGW, not merely generally. Is it too much to ask that you read what I write, at least?


 No.804521

File: 3715d0e83473c73⋯.png (263.75 KB, 455x578, 455:578, caster 1258839218508.png)

>>804496

>and a lot of people were dying in the earlier routes too thanks to Caster's "gas leaks", just off-screen

Rude.

Medea never killed anyone except Atomic Gatorade, she has manners.


 No.804525

>>804496

>At the End of a Miracle

Literal Deus Ex Machina-tier ending. Where the fuck was Ilya in Conclusion where Shirou just dies?


 No.804535

File: 81a9a33d330d706⋯.jpg (161.81 KB, 1024x1024, 1:1, fate-stay-night-sudba-noch….jpg)

This scene in the visual novel.


 No.804537

Heaven's Feel was amazing

The rest of the VN was shit.

Fight me, I just finished it.


 No.804545

>>804537

Heaven's Feel was trash with worst slut taking up way too much screentime.


 No.804548

File: fd21a9495e36c5a⋯.png (58.81 KB, 200x200, 1:1, oh yeah baby.png)

>>804496

>unless you're one of those faggots who subscribe to the faggot argument that HF Normal is the true ending

Oh god. Oh, god. I remember you. You're still butthurt about the revelation that Nasu pussied out of his original ending for HF, which lead to Last Episode being made too?

Oh, wow. That's... That's simply precious.


 No.804557

File: 42c6a59e29f59ea⋯.jpg (63.42 KB, 600x387, 200:129, Tohsaka.Rin.600.2101917.jpg)

>>804545

Good thing that best girl was still the MVP


 No.804569

File: 81a2a56cf156992⋯.jpg (93.74 KB, 450x300, 3:2, 1407093928984.jpg)

>>804557

You know it.


 No.804586

File: 4baf851a74a5245⋯.mp4 (559.93 KB, 854x480, 427:240, HeavensFeelRoute.mp4)

>>804525

This actually has an extremely good explanation:

F/SN uses a point system for your relationships. HF Normal is the ending you get if you have sufficient points for Sakura, but insufficient points for Illya. Upon completing this ending, Shirou saves Sakura, and then walks towards the Grail. He sees something crumpled on the ground but doesn't recognize it. That something is Kirei - though he can't tell at the time. At this point, he advances to the Grail, traces Excalibur Morgan, and uses it to take everything down.

If you have enough points from Illya, it's different: When Shirou starts approaching the Grail, Kirei is still alive, and stands in the way. This leads to the two of them fighting, while Illya approaches from behind, and helps Zouken pass on as she does so. The change in time-frame means that by the time the barely-living Shirou manages to crawl up to the Grail, Illya is there to intervene.

However, because of the way the game progression works, if you get the True Ending, it's essentially impossible to get the Normal Ending without going back a huge section of the way through. Thus, even after Kirei dies, you still get the prompt where it gives you the option to view the Normal Ending. This is not the intended progression of scenes, but something which is done for the benefit of the user.

As far as the ending being a Deus Ex Machina: It is very close by definition. However, it is thematically appropriate. One of the huge points that gets made in the story for all of the parts leading up to it is that Sakura living or dying doesn't really matter to her: it's Shirou coming back that's the important part. It's something Rider reminds him of before she departs. In the Normal End, he consigns himself to that fact, and sort of brushes the importance of his own life aside. The True End differs: Following his match with Kirei, specifically in All the Good in This Life, he realizes that he has a reason to keep fighting, and a reason to live. Hence the reason why the text prompt for HF True asks "there must be another way."

One of the things Nasu has written a lot about since KnK is the matter of sins and the bearing of those sins. The HF Normal set-up is meant to mirror KnK: the sinner (Sakura/Shiki) whose burdens are taken on by the messianic archetype (Shirou/Mikiya). The difference here is that while Mikiya is "pure", Shirou is not: the only thing he can do is destroy the Grail. The HF True end has Illya, the actual "pure" person (though perhaps not innocent), take up the mantle, actually shut the gate, and properly bear "All the Evils of the World".

>>804515

>Book

I mean, you can say it makes more sense, but it really doesn't. Shinji's a fucking retard and a confirmed braggart who uses half-truths to inflate himself, as shown in literally his first appearance. He has no work ethic, and takes advantage of Shirou or others constantly to make up for that. He can say whatever he wants, but it's established early on that he's full of shit when he talks. It's a bigger plot hole for him to have done anything on his own.

>Shit-Bag

That goes both ways: Shinji is envious and spiteful towards Sakura for having what he doesn't: Shirou, magic circuits, receiving magical instruction, etc. There are only two people in the story he's like that to so overtly - Shirou and Sakura; and later on Rin, after she rejects him.

>Thematic Whiplash / Progression

That is how it works. Each route builds off of what you learn from the one before it. HF makes a lot less sense if you don't go through UBW - literally every scene with Archer, just to give an example. The story keeps building along, and I can't think of a single solid argument that could be made to justify reading HF before UBW. In any case, the biggest argument most people have against HF isn't thematic, it's "muh cooking" or "muh wormslut".

>>804548

Oh look, it's the faggot who considers himself the master of Japanese literature.


 No.804730

>>804586

>F/SN uses a point system for your relationships. HF Normal is the ending you get if you have sufficient points for Sakura, but insufficient points for Illya.

Not really, though. You can literally use the same save file to get both endings. Literally nothing changes beyond Shirou having one stray thought. That somehow cascades into Illya teleporting to save everyone. You can also just use Caladbolg against Alter and remove that choice entirely, making Illya poof into the air and disappear.

>It's a bigger plot hole for him to have done anything on his own.

Shinji is actually a pretty smart dude, as Nasu puts it "Basically, he's the kind of person that's reliable when he's on your side but ends up being really troublesome if he turns on you."

He also explains how he has the knowledge left by the Matou, which given how Shirou actually managed to get into the HGW leaves Shinji a lot less of an apparent outlier.

>He has no work ethic, and takes advantage of Shirou or others constantly to make up for that

Not really true. He repays the work others do in his own way, especially with Shirou. Shinji talked shit about him to Shirou's face and behind his back, but in turn he also was a real friend to Shirou who made sure to fuck over anyone who tried to mess with Shirou.

>Kuzuki

And I checked that; you're wrong. No command seal. So Shinji is still less of an apparent outlier.

>Shinji is envious and spiteful towards Sakura for having what he doesn't

Yes, but in terms of timeline it's obviously leaning towards Shirou being the catalyst since they were good buddies for years before Sakura met Shirou, and she had been the heir for years before that.

>people have against HF isn't thematic, it's "muh cooking" or "muh wormslut".

Those aren't arguments, though. Those who actually dislikes HF has points in that regard, often repeating the points I made. It's the "oh hey, JUSTICE FUCK YEAH—wait, what? Save one over the many? Fuck that shit MIND OF STEEL."-mindset which seems to dominate that circle.


 No.804732

>>804586

>he sees something crumpled on the ground but doesn't recognize it. That something is Kirei

You're referring to this:

<"The ceiling's crumbling down, and the ground is becoming a pile of rubble."

That's a pretty weak argument. And I checked the flags, it doesn't seem to matter one way or another. Especially since that bit appears regardless of what choice you make, regardless of Kotomine's appearance in that scene.

And there's the fact that Kotomine appears in subsequent playthroughs regardless and that the choice comes after Kotomine loses.

>This is not the intended progression of scenes, but something which is done for the benefit of the user.

Precedent with Tsukihime and FSN would argue against that; alt endings require going the whole way, usually.


 No.804922

File: d909082ca70d6b1⋯.webm (439.58 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, salt level is good.webm)

File: 574203078bd6064⋯.jpg (46.8 KB, 310x288, 155:144, 574203078bd6064a4cea7c8e94….jpg)

>>804586

>Oh look, it's the faggot who considers himself the master of Japanese literature.


 No.804928

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>804197

Don't know why no one has posted this yet.


 No.804941

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Best scene coming through.


 No.804975

File: 223ca3deb52ae13⋯.png (945.54 KB, 800x1197, 800:1197, saber rider 1151921 qq.png)


 No.804977

File: 24830e75111443e⋯.png (2.09 MB, 1680x1050, 8:5, shirou archer ubw answer.png)

>>804928

Technically two of the scenes posted have that theme. But in UBW, Answer is the strongest scene and arguably one of the best in the entire franchise. The Gil fight is just too short and doesn't showcase enough of the respective combatants abilities to be really good.

Probably because Nasu was saving the best bits for HF. Would have loved to see Shirou pull out the axesword and kind of pick up the baton from Heracles for Ilya.


 No.804978

>>804977

>Nasu was saving the best bits for HF

>HF is best

Yeah, no


 No.804985

>>804975

I don't remember this.


 No.804990

File: 605991471341f15⋯.png (464.38 KB, 807x666, 269:222, 1459898516026-0.png)

>>804985

I think we would all remember that.


 No.805037

File: 856184cf73b404b⋯.webm (3 MB, 640x360, 16:9, mahou shoujo no nichijou.webm)

This is with no doubt the greatest achievement of the Fate/* series.


 No.805041

>>805037

FK was the whole reason a lot of people and myself started following the franchise, see sales figures. To be perfectly clear, FSN was trash. Emiya is garbage. FZ is better just because Emiya is not there. FK should have been the first entry in the series and all the spin offs should have Illya doing MC things.


 No.805050

File: 24d61aa4c52c2b4⋯.jpg (98.6 KB, 738x960, 123:160, 1686.jpg)

>>805041

>emiya is garbage

Don't you ever speak about my wife like that ever again you filthy mongrel!


 No.805101

File: c6f0b6fe395138f⋯.webm (3.4 MB, 854x480, 427:240, c6f0b6fe395138f8e70cc88bd….webm)

>Saber

>selfish cunt

You know, being naive isn't the same as being a "selfish cunt". Gil is a selfish cunt. Saber just doesn't understand that there is more than one way to show people that you care, and that a King shows his people he cares in ways different from non-kings. Naturally anon loves to jump on the TOLD bandwagon as if they were the one smart enough to think this shit up. Get over yourselves, you egotistical babies. I thought the exchange of philosophy was enlightening.


 No.805109

>>805041

>To be perfectly clear, FSN was trash. Emiya is garbage.

HF is basically Shirou without his own flaws. A real human being.


 No.805135

>>804985

Hollow Ataraxia probably.


 No.805136

File: 0690353d4733063⋯.jpg (570.82 KB, 750x500, 3:2, shirou is a miracle of the….jpg)

>>805041

Nah, Shirou is unironically the best thing about Fate.

>>804978

As in the juiciest ideas; using Rule Breaker, Heracles' axe-sword, Rho Aias in combination with another Servant, completely swordification etc. Thing which were merely hinted at or touched lightly in other routes got a lot more mileage in HF.

>>805135

>>804985

It's not; the text box is different in FHA and the only yuri-bait with Rider is with Rin.

T. 100% completion save.




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